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Old 11-17-2019, 07:41 AM   #801
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Looking to poll the audience on this one:

Suppose you have an item on track 1 open in the MIDI editor, but track 2 is selected (and therefore its banks are shown in Reaticulate's UI).

If you insert an articulation by right clicking (for example), would you expect the articulation from track 2 be inserted in track 1's item (current behavior) or that it be inserted at the edit cursor on track 1 (creating a new item if necessary)?
I think both behaviors aren’t ideal. I would expect a warning like: the displayed articulations aren’t matching the track of the selected item.
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Old 11-17-2019, 09:57 AM   #802
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I have a Reaper crash if Reaticulate run on startup option is on - even if I not insert this one to tracks. Crash happen if I suddently double-click on the tempo digit or attempt to save a subproject - please, check it
Unfortunately I'm not able to reproduce this on OSX with 5.985+dev1113. Some questions (in order of perceived relevance):

1. What version of the js_ReaScriptAPI do you have? (If you installed it via ReaPack it will tell you in Browse Packages.) Please try updating if it's not the latest.
2. Do you have "Track selection follows FX focus" enabled in Reaticulate's settings? If so, does it still crash if you disable it?
3. Does it only happen with the dev version of reaper or does it also happen with 5.985?
4. Does it also occur with the same reproduction steps with the default theme?

Last edited by tack; 11-17-2019 at 01:55 PM.
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Old 11-17-2019, 11:37 AM   #803
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I think both behaviors aren’t ideal. I would expect a warning like: the displayed articulations aren’t matching the track of the selected item.
Yup, that's more like it. That could've saved my bacon plenty of times already
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Old 11-17-2019, 01:30 PM   #804
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What's the use case scenario you had in mind for this feature?
It's more just around making sure the behavior for a particular edge case is reasonable.

The edge case was made clearer based on some work I'm doing to remember Reaticulate's default channel per track. Currently it's a global setting, which becomes annoying when you work on different channels on different tracks.

But also the default channel is synced with the MIDI editor. When you use one of the "Set channel for new events to XX" actions in the MIDI editor, Reaticulate reflects this change in the default channel. Similarly, when you click the channel numbers in Reaticulate's GUI, it syncs this to the MIDI editor so if you draw in new events, they'll be on that channel.

With the logic to remember channel per track, I wasn't sure how to handle the case where the MIDI editor is editing an item on a different track than the one selected in Reaticulate's GUI.

This relates in principle to the question I posed earlier. If users mostly expected the current behavior (where you could insert an articulation from a different track into the item), then it suggests the above scenario should not decouple Reaticulate's UI with the MIDI Editor (wrt default channel).

My intuition is that they should become decoupled if the item being edited in on a different track than the one selected and active in Reaticulate, which means the current behavior is somehow wrong. And I think you and Stephan have confirmed my suspicions.

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I think both behaviors aren’t ideal. I would expect a warning like: the displayed articulations aren’t matching the track of the selected item.
I don't want a modal popup in this case. (Those are almost always to be avoided at all costs.) I could draw a red or yellow banner on Reaticulate's GUI when the selected track doesn't match the item in the MIDI editor to make it clear.

When in this state, left-clicking articulations should still be allowed, since controlling the instrument on the selected track even if different than the MIDI editor is easy to see. Actions that result in insertion should either be disallowed, or they should do something.

So I'm thinking if this case happens:

1. Clearly display a warning banner in Reaticulate's main screen indicating the mismatch between selected track and item being edited.
2. No longer sync Reaticulate's default channel with the MIDI editor during the mismatch. (If the track that holds the edited item is selected again, then the default channel reflects the one for that track and they synchronized again.)
3. If the user inserts an articulation despite the warning, then it does so on the selected track, not the one being edited, creating a new item if necessary. Because inserting articulations on track X into an item on track Y just won't work right.

Thanks for the feedback guys!
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Old 11-17-2019, 02:57 PM   #805
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Unfortunately I'm not able to reproduce this on OSX with 5.985+dev1113. Some questions (in order of perceived relevance):

1. What version of the js_ReaScriptAPI do you have? (If you installed it via ReaPack it will tell you in Browse Packages.) Please try updating if it's not the latest.
2. Do you have "Track selection follows FX focus" enabled in Reaticulate's settings? If so, does it still crash if you disable it?
3. Does it only happen with the dev version of reaper or does it also happen with 5.985?
4. Does it also occur with the same reproduction steps with the default theme?
1) 0.995
2) it seems a crash happens when enabled (see video)
3) same result in both dev and stable version
4) yes, with default theme too

https://youtu.be/f7kPFlhbkhI
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Old 11-17-2019, 03:06 PM   #806
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Thanks for that. If a picture is worth a thousand words, then a video is easily worth ten thousand.

I can reproduce it now. Hopefully I can figure out a solution. In the meantime, obviously disable "Track selection follows FX focus"
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Old 11-17-2019, 03:12 PM   #807
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Hopefully I can figure out a solution.
Thanks a lot!
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Old 11-17-2019, 03:36 PM   #808
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Default 0.4.3 released

0.4.3 just landed with another set of bugs squashed. Thanks everyone for your continued feedback.

Installing
If you're a new user (not upgrading), just follow these installation instructions.


Upgrading
If you've installed using ReaPack, you should eventually receive the update, but you can force it by following the updating instructions.


Here are the changes since 0.4.1 (including fixes from 0.4.2 which I forgot to announce):

Bug Fixes
  • Fixed a crasher on OSX when "Track selection follows FX focus" is enabled
  • Fixed bug where duplicating tracks containing the Reaticulate JSFX may not reflect the same bank assignments
  • Fixed an issue loading projects or importing track templates saved with older versions of Reaticulate where changes made to banks would not be automatically synced to the track
  • Fixed inserting articulations when the edit cursor is at the boundary between two MIDI items
  • Fixed a regression with the track configuration screen where it failed to properly reflect additions or removals of banks when the Refresh toolbar button was pressed
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Old 11-17-2019, 03:48 PM   #809
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I don't want a modal popup in this case. (Those are almost always to be avoided at all costs.) I could draw a red or yellow banner on Reaticulate's GUI when the selected track doesn't match the item in the MIDI editor to make it clear.
That’s exactly what I had in mind!
And I also like the 1,2,3 points!
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Old 11-17-2019, 08:11 PM   #810
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That’s exactly what I had in mind!
Then it must be right!

So here's what it'll look like in 0.5 when you hit this condition:

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Old 11-17-2019, 11:50 PM   #811
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Then it must be right!


This looks awesome, Jason! Just perfect!
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Old 11-18-2019, 01:48 AM   #812
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Then it must be right!

So here's what it'll look like in 0.5 when you hit this condition:

"Perfection"
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Old 11-19-2019, 11:37 AM   #813
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Hi.

I'm new to this thread but a regular used of Reaticulate etc. I previously used it with EW Hollywood orchestra, via Vienna Ensemble Pro, 48gb huge template and it worked flawlessly. I used it with midi channel selection options.

I now switched to Spitfire's BBC Symphonic Orchestra and am creating a template based on keyswitches. Everything works as expected, I do encounter one difference though. When record arming several tracks (let's say all strings) and selecting an articulation (same keyswitch, same bank number and name) it doesn't change articulations for all armed tracks. Just for the one selected. If all of them are selected, it also doesn't change the articulation for all of them. The keyswitch obviously works on the keyboard, but I'm interested if it's possible to change articulations for more tracks at once via the script. I remember this being possible when using midi channels.

Thanks.
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Old 11-19-2019, 12:35 PM   #814
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I'm interested if it's possible to change articulations for more tracks at once via the script. I remember this being possible when using midi channels.
It used to work with Reaticulate because Reaticulate would "stuff" the program change MIDI message (in Reaper's lingo), which meant it would go to all tracks armed for recording.

I stopped doing this because it didn't make sense to send an articulation's output events to all armed tracks when a) the articulation may not apply to (or exist on) other tracks, b) even if it does, it may have completely different output events, c) it doesn't work when articulations affect routing as it merely blindly blasts the keyswitch to all armed tracks and makes no routing changes, and d) this only works for temporary activation (left click) and not insertion (right click) where it would always only insert on the selected track, and I found that inconsistency problematic.

So the previous behavior was objectively broken, even if it did make sense for your particular use case.

I could reintroduce support for activation on multiple selected tracks. But it's hard to make it perfect, because suppose on the active track (the one reflected in Reaticulate's GUI) you click on staccato, and say that's program 40. If program 40 exists on the other selected tracks, should it just blindly activate (or insert) that program there? Or should it make some attempt to figure out program 40 on those other tracks is actually staccato by comparing the articulation name? Or should it hunt for another program in those other tracks with the same name instead?

None of those options are great. I don't like the idea of articulation names having semantic value to Reaticulate. But then just blindly activating the articulation with the same program number on the other tracks feels a little volatile too.

For now, if we want to restore this basic functionality, blindly activating the same program number is probably the best that can be done, and it's not that crazy if the basic advice of standardizing on program numbers (a la UACC) is followed. (Except I know it commonly isn't. Oh well, Not My Problem™ for users' custom banks.)

So if you activate an articulation, it'll properly process the activation on all selected tracks based on the program number used in the active track in the GUI, ignoring tracks that have no such program number, and correctly handling the articulation change on the tracks that do (unlike the old behavior) by emitting their respective configured output events. This allows keyswitches for program 40 staccato to differ across tracks and things still work.

Meanwhile, insertion (e.g. by right-clicking) would insert the program on the selected tracks, creating new MIDI items at the edit cursor if necessary.

Opinions on that behavior welcome.
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Old 11-19-2019, 02:20 PM   #815
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Thanks for the long explanation. I personally see a better use in having this function on, but I can see some instances where that would be annoying for someone. I'm a bit of an organizational nerd, so my program numbers match the uacc guide you provided on your website. So yeah I think that would be the way to go. Having the wrong name in the articulation doesn't really mess up anything, but if you have 2 same numbers in the same instance, it doesn't work well. So I see some general necessity for people to get it right, why not watch out of for this issue as well.

So, I tried right clicking one articulation, but it didn't create a midi item, and basically functioned the same way a left click does. However, when I start recording and I press an articulation, it records that articulation on all armed tracks. So basically the functionality is still there, but just a bit more limited. This still works for me, since the only time I need multiple track articulation changes is when I'm testing strings sweeps under other instruments, and it helps doing this instantly, without having to go to every track and press "long" etc.

I guess one option would be to have an checkbox option to turn that on or off. As said, I can see a better use to have it on, but recording the articulation still saves a lot of time and is not too cumbersome.

P.S.: I'd be happy to provide you with the articulation document I used for the BBCSO once I'm done. It also includes the EW Hollywood Orchestra database (this one is trickier though, since it's a personal choice of the order of patches loaded and other stuff). However, a play patch file would actually work with loading all the instruments in the order that I scripted them in the document. Let me know if that would be helpful to you.
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Old 11-19-2019, 05:11 PM   #816
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Thanks for the long explanation.
I am not famously terse.

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So, I tried right clicking one articulation, but it didn't create a midi item, and basically functioned the same way a left click does.
Automatic MIDI item creation will be in the next major release (0.5) -- it's a new behavior we discussed on this thread a page or two ago. I was talking like it already existed, sorry for the confusion. (Well, it does exist, for the 1 person who uses my local dev branch. )

With the currently released version today, right-clicking will insert at the existing MIDI item under the edit cursor, or at strategic positions if notes are selected in the MIDI editor. It won't automagically create a new item.

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However, when I start recording and I press an articulation, it records that articulation on all armed tracks. So basically the functionality is still there, but just a bit more limited.
Excellent observation!

Yes, the MIDI event stuffing I lambasted in my previous post is indeed exactly what I'm doing when the transport is recording. I should probably clean this up too.

It's just maybe a little more slippery, because if you're not recording, the insert behavior should presumably be based on selected tracks, but if you're recording, it should definitely be based on armed tracks.

(As a technical side bar, Reaper's API provides a means of very efficiently getting selected tracks, but not getting armed tracks. AFAICT, the only way to do that is to enumerate every track in the project. These means the performance of articulation insertion during recording degrades with respect to the number of tracks in the project. That's something the MIDI message stuffing approach doesn't need to worry about, since Reaper takes care of ensuring the events are dropped into the armed tracks.)

Anyway, I'll kick this around a bit and see if I can't make things both consistent and tolerably performant, while still enabling the use case you described.


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P.S.: I'd be happy to provide you with the articulation document I used for the BBCSO once I'm done.
There are already a number of user-contributed banks:

https://github.com/jtackaberry/reati...ster/userbanks

BBCSO is absent there, so sure, I'd be happy to include those there for others.

Thanks!
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Old 11-19-2019, 05:56 PM   #817
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Anyway, I'll kick this around a bit and see if I can't make things both consistent and tolerably performant, while still enabling the use case you described.
Doesn't look possible. When recording with record mode set to input (i.e. not one of the overdub/replace modes), there is no MIDI item created yet that can be fetched by the API. So there's nothing to insert into until after the recording is done.

MIDI event stuffing is the only way when recording. I don't see any other choice but to live with the inconsistency.

I can make things work when not recording, anyway.
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Old 11-19-2019, 08:41 PM   #818
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I could reintroduce support for activation on multiple selected tracks.
.
.
.
That actually sounds fantastic. So, basically, when selecting all String tracks and chosing "spiccato", all those tracks would switch to that articualtion. Provided, they all use UACC. I like that idea. Also the fact, that empty MIDI items will be created for all these tracks.

On different note: wasn't there a plan to get rid of UACC?


EDIT: I already have about 3/4 of BBC done. I can post it here. Only some of the tuned percussion is missing.
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Old 11-19-2019, 08:57 PM   #819
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Provided, they all use UACC.
Really the only requirement is that they use the same program number, whether it's 42 as per the UACC v2 spec or not.

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On different note: wasn't there a plan to get rid of UACC?
Choosing UACC as the standard for program numbers is something I definitely regret. But ultimately program numbers are arbitrary, and users shouldn't really care about them, just as they shouldn't have to care about MSB/LSB. I'm not entirely sure I will get rid of the UACC numbering scheme as such, but I do want to make it less visible/relevant.

This will happen with the bank editor. Reaticulate will assign a program number when you create an articulation. The way I envision this working is you can choose from a common set of articulations to template off of, where it will automatically start with an appropriate icon and color and name (allowing you to override of course), and in behind the scenes pick the program number that aligns to UACC. Then in some sort of "advanced mode" you can manually set the program number, or else just let Reaticulate pick one.

But the "common set" will be heavily reduced. Maybe to about 20. I expect to still use UACC numbering there just for backward compatibility with banks so far, but not be prescriptive about articulations outside that common set of 20 or whatever.
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Old 11-19-2019, 09:01 PM   #820
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Really the only requirement is that they use the same program number, whether it's 42 as per the UACC v2 spec or not.
Right! Didn't see the wood for trees...

That sounds like a good idea to me. UACC is not bad per se. I appreciate the fact that
it features a well sorted set of articulations. But it also leaves a lot to be desired, since Spitfire themselves don't record any articualtions available. And that clearly shows in the UACC mapping.
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Old 11-22-2019, 07:48 PM   #821
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Is there anyway to trigger articulation changes (next/previous articulations) with a key command on multiple tracks? I'd love to be able to select Hi and Low Strings, and then change both from long to staccato at the same time. I know this is possible with MIDI, but I was unable to get MIDI to cleanly work, so I'm hoping that this is possible with key commands.

Thanks all!
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Old 11-24-2019, 12:59 PM   #822
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Is there anyway to trigger articulation changes (next/previous articulations) with a key command on multiple tracks? I'd love to be able to select Hi and Low Strings, and then change both from long to staccato at the same time. I know this is possible with MIDI, but I was unable to get MIDI to cleanly work, so I'm hoping that this is possible with key commands.
This is the subject from the previous few posts above (especially this one). Short answer: no, not possible now, but coming in the next major release (0.5).

It would depend on the banks on both tracks using the same program number for long and staccato, but otherwise it'll work.
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Old 11-25-2019, 03:36 PM   #823
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I'll be looking forward to the next update then. Sorry for not catching that part of the thread earlier, and thank you again for your responsiveness on this thread!
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Old 12-01-2019, 03:49 PM   #824
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Vsthem and Stevie - I would love an expression map for Reaticulate for BBC! Thanks!
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Old 12-01-2019, 04:25 PM   #825
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I’m just re-installing my system (I really hate that task), that’s why I got a bit silent. Will take care of the BBC maps, soon!
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Old 12-02-2019, 09:40 PM   #826
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I’m just re-installing my system (I really hate that task), that’s why I got a bit silent. Will take care of the BBC maps, soon!
Thanks, Stevie! Are you enjoying the BBC? Is it going to replace anything in your template, or are any of the instruments going to become a go-to for you?
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Old 12-03-2019, 04:49 AM   #827
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I have indeed to say, that I mostly stretch out for BBC at the moment. Eventhough my favourite strings library is CSS, BBC covers a lot of ground here with a nice, warm tone. Same goes for the woodwinds and the percussion.
And I also think the brass is still great, eventhough the ff-part is lacking.
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Old 12-04-2019, 07:15 PM   #828
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Btw, Jason, check this:
https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...40&postcount=3

The picture :P
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Old 12-05-2019, 05:44 PM   #829
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Nice! That was quietly slipped in.
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Old 12-05-2019, 05:59 PM   #830
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I also just discovered this option in the MIDI editor.

"Options: Bank/program change events follow note selection when CC selection follows note selection"
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Old 12-05-2019, 07:07 PM   #831
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Yep, that was introduced some pres ago. Pretty much the same as CC follows. Great, isn't it???
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Old 12-05-2019, 09:33 PM   #832
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Here you go: BBC Symphonic Orchestra

https://github.com/jtackaberry/reaticulate/issues/85
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Old 12-05-2019, 10:10 PM   #833
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Originally Posted by _Stevie_ View Post
Here you go: BBC Symphonic Orchestra

https://github.com/jtackaberry/reaticulate/issues/85
Thanks so much, Stevie! I really appreciate you sharing your hard work on this!
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Old 12-06-2019, 05:16 AM   #834
_Stevie_
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You’re welcome! I literally did it while composing, when I needed it 😜
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