Old 01-03-2019, 10:01 AM   #201
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Awesome!! Pls do..
Just found out iPlug2 can build Reaper-specific FX that can even draw on top of the video window. This is going to be awesome!
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Old 01-03-2019, 10:56 AM   #202
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Just found out iPlug2 can build Reaper-specific FX that can even draw on top of the video window. This is going to be awesome!
A video overlay for the pan puck will be awesome. It will help to get the accuracy of the pan with respect to the video
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Old 01-03-2019, 10:59 AM   #203
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A video overlay for the pan puck will be awesome. It will help to get the accuracy of the pan with respect to the video
It seems that reaper-specific VSTs can do a many other integrated things like know what take and track the FX is on etc.

Open to interesting integration suggestions. Video window is only one that comes to my mind immediately.
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Old 01-03-2019, 11:35 AM   #204
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It seems that reaper-specific VSTs can do a many other integrated things like know what take and track the FX is on etc.

Open to interesting integration suggestions. Video window is only one that comes to my mind immediately.
Linking the reaper's balance panner and dual panner to your plugin's X axis would be very helpful. We then only have to worry about the y axis pans when converting to stereo mixes to surround.
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Old 01-03-2019, 11:38 AM   #205
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An ipad app would also be very handy. So we can have the app opened in iPad and whichever track or take we click.. If there is your plugin inserted on it.. The iPad app should automatically bring that on to view ready to automate
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Old 01-03-2019, 11:44 AM   #206
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An ipad app would also be very handy. So we can have the app opened in iPad and whichever track or take we click.. If there is your plugin inserted on it.. The iPad app should automatically bring that on to view ready to automate
iPlug2 has OSC support so that would be pretty easy for sending data between them.
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Old 01-03-2019, 11:48 AM   #207
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iPlug2 has OSC support so that would be pretty easy for sending data between them.
Touch OSC doesn't automatically bank to the selected track in reaper. Or am I missing something?
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Old 01-03-2019, 11:56 AM   #208
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Touch OSC doesn't automatically bank to the selected track in reaper. Or am I missing something?
TouchOSC will respond to whatever is sent to it and it's configured to do for those messages.

Unless reaper is simply not sending track select information, it should be possible.

My plugin could send information about last selected panner instance. Would have to create some kind of template for it to understand those messages. OSC is just a way of sending data.
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Old 01-03-2019, 11:57 AM   #209
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TouchOSC will respond to whatever is sent to it and it's configured to do for those messages.

Unless reaper is simply not sending track select information, it should be possible.

My plugin could send information about last selected panner instance. Would have to create some kind of template for it to understand those messages. OSC is just a way of sending data.
Great!! If you have a layout that automatically bank to selected track pls share it.
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Old 01-03-2019, 12:00 PM   #210
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Great!! If you have a layout that automatically bank to selected track pls share it.
I don't but if you use an OSC monitor to see what reaper is sending, you can configure TouchOSC to respond to those I think.

OSC isn't standardised like midi. It's just arbitrary text commands sent over the network. You need to teach each app what the messages mean.
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Old 01-15-2019, 10:50 PM   #211
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I have now updated my surround suite:

https://github.com/junh1024/Reaper-Surround

It is now somewhat usable because you can now pan directly into center. It has:
* 3.1 Panner (M).txt (for center channel dialog, front SFX, and LFE use)
* 7.1 Mono panner.txt (for phantom center & surround panning)
* 7.1 to 5.1 Downmix (M).txt

For a full GUI panner, http://sonic.supermaailma.net/plugins has a compatible one.

If 5.1 isn't enough, there are a few 15.1 surround tools.

I've also made:
* < 5.1 Effects & manipulators >
* updates to readme & tools
* organization of FX into categories

discussion of my suite should be directed here https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=2082080
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Old 04-01-2019, 02:15 AM   #212
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Just bumping this thread.

I'm also hoping MrLimbic may have an update on the panner plugin. Also if we could get ReaSurround working in a simpler and more intuitive way for post sound sound and music it would really be amazing.

The ultimate would be if there was some way to have compatibility between Reaper and Pro Tools surround panning automation via AATranslator as it would make delivering projects so much easier.
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Old 04-27-2019, 10:07 AM   #213
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rebumping. anything at all happening with reasurround?
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Old 04-27-2019, 10:16 AM   #214
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Just bumping this thread.

I'm also hoping MrLimbic may have an update on the panner plugin. Also if we could get ReaSurround working in a simpler and more intuitive way for post sound sound and music it would really be amazing.

The ultimate would be if there was some way to have compatibility between Reaper and Pro Tools surround panning automation via AATranslator as it would make delivering projects so much easier.
Absolutely... Some way of converting surround panner automation would be fantastic..via AATranslator... I have been asking this to the developer of AATranslator for a while..glad to have some company !!
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Old 05-30-2019, 03:41 PM   #215
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Any update on mr limbic surround panner ? Pls..
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Old 05-30-2019, 04:00 PM   #216
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Any update on mr limbic surround panner ? Pls..
I can resume work on the panner after Vordio 6.x is out. Currently working on AAF support which has been pretty much the most requested feature always. Vordio 6 is pretty much a complete rewrite of the whole app using everyting learned from feedback. There's a lot more stuff but it is taking a lot longer than I hoped. Maybe a month or two to go?

PS Kind of related and it totally blew my mind.. I recently went to an academic event on spatial audio with physical demos of current acoustics research and there is some amazing stuff coming soon for mixing in 3D. All the demos were in reaper and will work with any DAW (tools are VSTs) and open source. All this ties into the new audio metadata standards coming soon too. Stuff I heard was mind boggling crazy such as upmixing mono samples to 3D which you'd think was impossible but sounded great. Speakers that could target each ear with constructive interference (virtual headphones). Nuts.

"Renderer: a component that uses the scene metadata to mix the signals of the objects in order to generate the output audio signals for different types of devices (Loudspeakers, Headphones, …) and layouts ( stereo, binaural, 5.1, 7.1, 22.1, …)."

https://www.s3a-spatialaudio.org/plugins

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Old 05-30-2019, 05:43 PM   #217
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AMAZING !!!!!
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Old 05-31-2019, 12:26 AM   #218
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Looks very promising.

What is the technical standard called? When I was at university, something similar was being drafted under the name "mpeg-h". Couldn't find more info on their site about this.

I'm also wondering if there are currently any consumer-side plugins in the works for reproducing the rendered object based mix in a media player like iTunes or foobar2000?
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Old 05-31-2019, 01:13 AM   #219
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Looks very promising.

What is the technical standard called? When I was at university, something similar was being drafted under the name "mpeg-h". Couldn't find more info on their site about this.

I'm also wondering if there are currently any consumer-side plugins in the works for reproducing the rendered object based mix in a media player like iTunes or foobar2000?
There is a new WAV metadata standard called BW64/ADM (audio definition model) that allows for much richer metadata than BWF bext/iXML.

https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r...6-I!!PDF-E.pdf

The backend of VISR is a set of open source components including various renderers for different formats that could be used in any other software.

https://cvssp.org/data/s3a/public/VI...with-visr.html

The VSTs in the demo I saw use UDP messages to send metadata in realtime from one VST to another. i.e. each object track VST sends it's spatial positions to the scene renderer VST.

However you could also use position information from anywhere you like including metadata recorded into a poly WAV file. So each channel is an object and they get rendered to whatever format you like during playback.
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Old 05-31-2019, 06:36 AM   #220
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Looks very promising.

What is the technical standard called? When I was at university, something similar was being drafted under the name "mpeg-h". Couldn't find more info on their site about this.

I'm also wondering if there are currently any consumer-side plugins in the works for reproducing the rendered object based mix in a media player like iTunes or foobar2000?
You'd render a binaural stereo master. The fold-down of the 3D surround mix isn't rendered live. It works poorly enough IMHO that I'd just prefer an intentional stereo mix for headphones. Some people love it though. (Don't get me wrong. I'm very much a surround addict. Kind of all or nothing with it though. )

There's always going to be the ambiguity with the front/back "blind spot" as it were that you resolve by moving your head when listening to a speaker array. I am also aware however, that this is being worked on with motion detection (for head movement) experiments in headphones. Giving you the perception of moving your head in a static 3D sound field.
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Old 05-31-2019, 07:55 AM   #221
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You'd render a binaural stereo master. The fold-down of the 3D surround mix isn't rendered live. It works poorly enough IMHO that I'd just prefer an intentional stereo mix for headphones. Some people love it though. (Don't get me wrong. I'm very much a surround addict. Kind of all or nothing with it though. )

There's always going to be the ambiguity with the front/back "blind spot" as it were that you resolve by moving your head when listening to a speaker array. I am also aware however, that this is being worked on with motion detection (for head movement) experiments in headphones. Giving you the perception of moving your head in a static 3D sound field.
The demo I went to was definitely being rendered live in reaper.

They had a more polished version of this for 3D monitoring!

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Old 05-31-2019, 07:57 AM   #222
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The problem with a rendered binaural stereo master is that if you ears/pinnae/head are too different than the set used by the encoder, then the spatial image you perceive can be even worse than with a regular stereo mix. At least, this is my experience from playing with some free ambisonics plugins: different data sets for the binaural encoder gave me wildly different results.
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Old 05-31-2019, 10:57 AM   #223
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There's a front/back ambiguity - a sort of "blind spot" off to the side where you need to move your head a little to tell if it's in front of you or behind you. You can add reverb to resolve this but that runs into a wall with music mixing. Or at least it has as an after the fact translation of a surround mix to binaural compatible. You'd have to add additional reverb components to support the surround image and that's a problem.

Mixing from the ground up one would think you could do any of the surround techniques you liked in a way that was compatible with the ambisonic system and folding down. Sounds good in theory anyway. The two camps need to come together.


There's still a lot of old school stuff going on in mixes too. Bass content like kick and bass guitar mixed to mono in either stereo or front L,R of surround to couple two speakers together for more punch. Keeping panning separation simple when possible with hard pans direct to speakers in stereo or surround. That might not just translate 1:1 to ambisonic techniques.

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Old 05-31-2019, 06:17 PM   #224
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The problem with a rendered binaural stereo master is that if you ears/pinnae/head are too different than the set used by the encoder, then the spatial image you perceive can be even worse than with a regular stereo mix. At least, this is my experience from playing with some free ambisonics plugins: different data sets for the binaural encoder gave me wildly different results.
Yes, but some IRs are just bad in general. See my HRTF list https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...Yr_U6p/pubhtml

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There's a front/back ambiguity - a sort of "blind spot" off to the side where you need to move your head a little to tell if it's in front of you or behind you. You can add reverb to resolve this but that runs into a wall with music mixing. Or at least it has as an after the fact translation of a surround mix to binaural compatible. You'd have to add additional reverb components to support the surround image and that's a problem.

Mixing from the ground up one would think you could do any of the surround techniques you liked in a way that was compatible with the ambisonic system and folding down. Sounds good in theory anyway. The two camps need to come together.


There's still a lot of old school stuff going on in mixes too. Bass content like kick and bass guitar mixed to mono in either stereo or front L,R of surround to couple two speakers together for more punch. Keeping panning separation simple when possible with hard pans direct to speakers in stereo or surround. That might not just translate 1:1 to ambisonic techniques.
AFAIK I have not had to do anything specific (ie, reverb) for any system regarding psychoacoustics. Many HRIRs have reverb built in.

surround & ambisonics are 2 different techniques for sound reproduction, but the same psychoacoustics for human hearing apply to both.

It's even more important to apply "surround" techniques of hard panning to ambisonics because the spatial accuracy of ambisonics is even worse than surround.
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Old 11-19-2019, 09:38 AM   #225
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A bit late into the Reaper surround game but I am just about to embark on mixing a sound track in 5.1 in reaper for the first time (Coming from Digital Performer and Pro Tools). I have been previously using this:
http://thecargocult.nz/spanner.shtml

Silly me - it works only on Pro Tools!
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Old 11-19-2019, 10:34 AM   #226
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A bit late into the Reaper surround game but I am just about to embark on mixing a sound track in 5.1 in reaper for the first time (Coming from Digital Performer and Pro Tools). I have been previously using this:
http://thecargocult.nz/spanner.shtml

Silly me - it works only on Pro Tools!

Something like this for reaper would be a game changer for sound designers. Developers pls
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Old 11-19-2019, 04:57 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by kris.audioplanet View Post
A bit late into the Reaper surround game but I am just about to embark on mixing a sound track in 5.1 in reaper for the first time (Coming from Digital Performer and Pro Tools). I have been previously using this:
http://thecargocult.nz/spanner.shtml

Silly me - it works only on Pro Tools!
Spanner is really good. I wish cargocult would not be so stubborn and release a VST version. I'm sure they'd sell some even for sake of Nuendo, Pyramix etc.

Surround panning is probably the one remaining weakness for REAPER. There are some good open source panning engines but lack a decent UI.

I will be working on similar panner after Vordio 6.0 is out but unfortunately it's still a way off until that happens. Integrated panning pucks with video window etc. (you can access reaper video widnow from a plugin)

I was thinking of reskinning the open source VISR engine (acoustics research based) which is very good in terms of sound (I've been to demos). It's aimed at 360/VR/Ambisonic audio but it can also render to 5.1, 7.1 etc too. There is another good open source panning engine called SPARTA now but again the audio is great but the UI sucks and has bugs.

VISR already have free VSTs with a UI but I'd probably do it a bit different myself. Their main focus is object based audio metadata which supercedes the current BWF standard i.e BW64/ADM (audio definition model). However the techniques are still totally applicable to traditional surround.

If you took the VISR approach but provided a square room UI with video integration it would be great.

https://www.s3a-spatialaudio.org/plugins
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