Old 02-25-2018, 01:34 AM   #1
UncleEti
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Default Advice : recording electro-ac. gt with DI and Mike

I am a fake beginner (just very slow), with a small home studio.
I would like advices from people having experienced the recording of an electro-acoustic guitar with both a microphone and a Direct Input in the same time.
I did that the best I could (I mean it, it took me a while to set up my gear). And now I have of course two tracks.
A friend told me : you have to deal differently with every track by respect to EQ, dynamics, etc..
I thought : I am going to add -mixing- the 2 tracks and I will bother FX and stuff after with the track I would have obtained.
I will add, the guitar is very front line in the recording, not immerged in some background music. So, the best would be.. er.. the best.

Thank you for your time.
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Old 02-25-2018, 01:42 AM   #2
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I suppose that you phase aligned both signals?
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Old 02-25-2018, 01:44 AM   #3
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I changed phase between the 2 tracks, because I had some unwanted "floating" sounds between left and right channels, it it is what you ask.Sorry being thick.
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Old 02-25-2018, 10:40 AM   #4
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Hi, Need to be used to the idea of each part being a component of a blend that will be your overall sound.

Typically the pickup can be low level compared to mic, acting to support the mic sound.

In my case pickup provides some low end and detail on finger picks that I don't get from the mic due to mic position and that I blocked my SoundHole to reduce boominess, which then left things bit thin on the mic, but clearer.

So I also eq reduce much of the mid range as not really helping my blend.
Also I can eq mic signal to remain a bit thin but balanced & pleasant overall.

Then blend to taste.

Also note that pickup tends to be less volume dynamic than mic signal, bit flat, so if you strum hard or change intensity the mic signal provides that information to the listener more.
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Old 02-25-2018, 01:18 PM   #5
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Sometimes the direct has more clean signal (and it doesn't have any room ambience to boot), and more "note" in the audio, but might be sterile. The mic often has a more natural sound but maybe too much room ambience, and maybe not enough clarity, at least compared with the direct. So people usually find a balance of these two to get the result they want. But not everyone has the same idea of what sounds better or worse, so it pretty much comes down to the old "if it sounds good, it is good" thing. If you like what a direct/mic balance of 75/25 does, that's good. But if you find 25/75 works better (as BenK-msx said, the mic generally has more of the intensity (and energy and emotion) )because it fits the music better, that's good too.

Find a balance that you like and then so how treating them separately goes. If something makes the blended guitar sound better, use it. And if it makes it worse don't use it : ) And never be against just using one of them and muting the other if it turns out you decide it just sounds best like that.
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Old 02-26-2018, 02:33 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenK-msx View Post
Hi, Need to be used to the idea of each part being a component of a blend that will be your overall sound.

Typically the pickup can be low level compared to mic, acting to support the mic sound.

In my case pickup provides some low end and detail on finger picks that I don't get from the mic due to mic position and that I blocked my SoundHole to reduce boominess, which then left things bit thin on the mic, but clearer.

So I also eq reduce much of the mid range as not really helping my blend.
Also I can eq mic signal to remain a bit thin but balanced & pleasant overall.

Then blend to taste.

Also note that pickup tends to be less volume dynamic than mic signal, bit flat, so if you strum hard or change intensity the mic signal provides that information to the listener more.
Thanks a lot. It's helpful. I would have thought the opposite by respect to dynamics. Actually my guitar (breedlove) has a lot of dynamicS, I played it in arpeggio with nails, which makes even more dynamics. I did not choose an easy life... Maybe a Yamaha silent guitar would help (some day). Or using better strings than cheap Martin's, (which are ok for other uses, of course)
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Old 02-26-2018, 02:36 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vdubreeze View Post
Sometimes the direct has more clean signal (and it doesn't have any room ambience to boot), and more "note" in the audio, but might be sterile. The mic often has a more natural sound but maybe too much room ambience, and maybe not enough clarity, at least compared with the direct. So people usually find a balance of these two to get the result they want. But not everyone has the same idea of what sounds better or worse, so it pretty much comes down to the old "if it sounds good, it is good" thing. If you like what a direct/mic balance of 75/25 does, that's good. But if you find 25/75 works better (as BenK-msx said, the mic generally has more of the intensity (and energy and emotion) )because it fits the music better, that's good too.

Find a balance that you like and then so how treating them separately goes. If something makes the blended guitar sound better, use it. And if it makes it worse don't use it : ) And never be against just using one of them and muting the other if it turns out you decide it just sounds best like that.
Yes, I probably should stick to what I like and don't like. In a word, not taking all this too seriously, and becoming unhappy in the end with what was supposed, in my case at least, to be fun!Thank you for technical hints, nevertheless.
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Old 03-03-2018, 05:06 PM   #8
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How did you mic the amp? Did you close mic it, or did you record the room?
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Old 03-04-2018, 01:09 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerome_oneil View Post
How did you mic the amp? Did you close mic it, or did you record the room?
Hi Jerome, I hope I got you. I am not a native English speaker.

Here is a short sample of the best sound I got using an inexepensive mike (T-bone SC400) and DY. Tbone is a very sensitive cardioïde mike.
I ) put it very near the El-acguitar (no amp used), somewhere around the connexion of neck and body.
2)I plugged it too in my external soundcard. I think it's a good sound -well; I like it-but it catches the slightest noises : your sleeve rubbing the guitar, the creaking of your chair, etc;

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qg69gdownn...ntro3.wav?dl=0

And, for a Daw reaper project, I choose a set up not so sensitive to noise. So, let's call it my regular quality of recording ( less good but sustainable). There are some gleetches, because I tried to apply the above advices but I also added a bit of Melodyne. For recording an acoustic guitar piece, I think it's better to stay away from it ! SInce then, having spent so much time on this business, I started to listen to background guitar pieces I could hear on tv (ads; tv movies, etc..) and I think it's not so bad.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t8hjk80d99...%20gt.mp3?dl=0
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Last edited by UncleEti; 03-04-2018 at 01:21 AM.
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Old 03-10-2018, 02:28 AM   #10
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What you are doing is fine. Balance the direct pickup and the mic to sound best.When it sounds good, it is good.

One thing to consider is whether you will add other instruments to the recording.

Some times what sounds good alone in a recording is different than what sounds good if mixed with other instruments or simging.

So, when I record a piece with several instruments, I wait until they are all recorded. Then I bring them up, one at a time, and balance them, listening for places where one instrument is covering the other. This is where you can balance sounds with volume envelopes, compressors. And equalizers to cut out frequencies that cover or hide the other instruments.
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Old 03-10-2018, 03:33 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philbo King View Post



Some times what sounds good alone in a recording is different than what sounds good if mixed with other instruments or simging.

.
Yes, important point, and that where lays the magic too, because it's true in the other direction. Suddenly sounds assemble. Wow!
Otherwise I do what you say on the whole.
Just 2 things :
-if someone reads this, he/she has to be aware it's ONE method, not THE method. What do you know of my guitar, the size of my home studio(just the corner of a library room in my case), the quality of my mikes. SO, experiment a lot ! mixing= patience a lot.
- if you have a medium quality gear, don't be too ambitious, not too many instruments for example (like orchestral music). You won't really hear well what's going on. And you might encounter crashes ! Think of what a professional studio look like...

But still a small HS (with reaper) can make very happy!
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Old 03-11-2018, 08:37 AM   #12
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Thanks for considering my opinion, UncleEti.
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Old 03-11-2018, 08:58 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleEti View Post
Hi Jerome, I hope I got you. I am not a native English speaker.

Here is a short sample of the best sound I got using an inexepensive mike (T-bone SC400) and DY. Tbone is a very sensitive cardioïde mike.
I ) put it very near the El-acguitar (no amp used), somewhere around the connexion of neck and body.
2)I plugged it too in my external soundcard. I think it's a good sound -well; I like it-but it catches the slightest noises : your sleeve rubbing the guitar, the creaking of your chair, etc;

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t8hjk80d99...%20gt.mp3?dl=0
Good mics will pick up all the noise you make. Good microphone discipline is a skill.

Anyway, what you are doing is fine. You might want to experiment with mic placement on the guitar (try it down low on the resonator board, and on the bridge, etc...) or even add another mic.

The rest is just mixing.
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