View Poll Results: What software do you intend to import MusicXML into?
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MuseScore
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72 |
59.50% |
Rosegarden
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2 |
1.65% |
Finale
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21 |
17.36% |
Guitar Pro
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25 |
20.66% |
Notion
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15 |
12.40% |
Sibelius
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40 |
33.06% |
Overture
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6 |
4.96% |
04-28-2016, 11:06 AM
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#1
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Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 15,747
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MusicXML interoperability poll
[note: this is take 2 of this thread, the poll was broken on the previous one.]
REAPER 5.20 is nearing release status. 5.20 will include notation view and editing, but no support for import/export or printing notation.
We have begun working on MusicXML export, and expect to add support for this in a REAPER release shortly after 5.20. Importing to REAPER will come later.
However, we have already run into some significant variation in how different notation software handles MusicXML import.
Hence this poll: if you plan to export notation from REAPER, what software do you expect to import that notation into?
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04-28-2016, 11:19 AM
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#2
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Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 15,747
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commala
It wouldn't do to have xml that was incompatible with Steinberg's program
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Once their software exists, we'll deal with it.
Here is Product R:
To go with
from here.
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04-28-2016, 03:54 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 409
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Overture 5 isn't an option on the list, but it's a terrific notation program currently in beta (with a demo version available)...it has the ability to import MusicXML, manipulate MIDI, it has 64-Bit and VST 3 Support, and it can export to audio:
https://sonicscores.com/overture/
__________________
Windows 10/Surface Pro 3, Intel i7 4650U 1.7/2.3 GHz, 8GB SSD
Overture 5/GPO 5.1/Omnisphere 2.1/Audacity/Komplete/Reaper
Last edited by imagegod; 04-28-2016 at 04:02 PM.
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04-28-2016, 07:12 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Reflection Free Zone
Posts: 3,026
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Exciting news. I use MuseScore daily to create lesson materials, and I've even taught MuseScore in adult education classes.
So obviously I have checked that box. I also have used quite a few others, but while the whole MuseScore project and community is in a very healthy and growing state at the moment, I nominate it as my priority.
Regarding those other 'products' given above I guess I tend to favour the fairly thin stems, ie 'Product D' look over the Schott or Steinberg. The rationale here is mainly ink/toner economy.
Doh! I just got it... The graphics show how 'Product R' (ie. REAPER) compares to various notation/engravers.
Skimmed the page from Daniel Spreadbury's blog http://blog.steinberg.net/2015/03/de...diary-part-10/
Last edited by hamish; 04-29-2016 at 07:53 PM.
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04-28-2016, 07:24 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 699
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagegod
Overture 5 isn't an option on the list, but it's a terrific notation program currently in beta (with a demo version available)...it has the ability to import MusicXML, manipulate MIDI, it has 64-Bit and VST 3 Support, and it can export to audio:
https://sonicscores.com/overture/
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I'm anxiously awaiting Overture ...
__________________
Reaper/Studio One Pro/Win10Pro x64
i7-6700@3.8Ghz/32G/43" 4K/UMC1820
Event PS8/KKS61MK2/Maschine MK3/K12U
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04-28-2016, 09:46 PM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobF
I'm anxiously awaiting Overture ...
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In my estimation, it's well worth the wait. IMHO, the developers of Reaper would do themselves in good stead if they took note (no pun intended) of the way Overture 5 handles the relationship between notation and MIDI...a very intuitive, straightforward interface that maintains an extremely robust musical utility.
__________________
Windows 10/Surface Pro 3, Intel i7 4650U 1.7/2.3 GHz, 8GB SSD
Overture 5/GPO 5.1/Omnisphere 2.1/Audacity/Komplete/Reaper
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04-28-2016, 11:57 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: España
Posts: 102
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MuseScore. I used Finale for many years but a year ago I use to write scores MuseScore. It is a very powerful editor. Open Source and freeware. For Windows, OSX and GNU / Linux. Their community is very active. I also think that its development has a great future.
Last edited by Iu.Gob; 04-29-2016 at 02:25 AM.
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04-29-2016, 04:34 AM
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#8
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Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 15,747
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Regarding MuseScore, I don't think that their musicxml implementation currently supports importing layout (arbitrary x,y position) information. For example, when importing a musicxml file that contains specific instructions for spacing between individual notes, those instructions are ignored and the MuseScore's default spacing is used instead. Similarly, if you compose a score in MuseScore, move some notation objects away from their default positions, then export that file to musicxml and import it immediately back to MuseScore, positioning information is lost. For example, if you move a crescendo away from the note it is originally attached to, MuseScore will write its new position into the musicxml file, but ignore that position when re-importing. I believe this is a known issue that is intended to be fixed at some point.
This is not to pick on MuseScore; we've seen export/import inconsistencies with Sibelius and other programs as well. The point is just that musicxml interoperability is a moving target and it's unlikely that it will ever be the case you will be able to move scores freely between programs with total confidence that nothing needs to be tweaked on import.
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04-29-2016, 06:12 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Germany
Posts: 26
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I use Musescore, now and then I test others (Sibelius, Finale, Forte, Notion) but I always return to Musescore. From my point of view It is not so essential that some tweaked layout is fully transported via XML, but the full content must be present. If I layout a page nice in my favorite editor I print it from there. If I export XML my main use case is to share *content* with someone using a different editor (e.g. guitar pro). If I want to share the exact layout, I export PDF.
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04-29-2016, 08:34 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: España
Posts: 102
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IMHO.My experience says there is no 100% compatibility importing MusicXML data. Almost always you have to fix something of the score.
"From my point of view It is not so essential that some tweaked layout is fully transported via XML, but the full content must be present. If I want to share the exact layout, I export PDF." I agree. Regards.
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04-29-2016, 09:05 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 46
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I clicked in three boxes, but it counted only the first. So I opt for Overture this way.
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04-29-2016, 01:32 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 340
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Tend to agree that absolute perfection of layout import is less important to me than absolute preservation of content is. I agree that when I need something to look *exactly this way* I export it as a PDF, I plan to use MusicXML chiefly to save labour in having to start a score from scratch or tidying up a MIDI export.
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04-29-2016, 02:36 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,153
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I use Notion. In the past, I have exported from Sonar using midi-1 files, as my version of Sonar doesn't include XML. I've never tried to import anything into Sonar. What I'd be doing is exporting my Sonar files into Reaper, then working with them from there. I hope this doesn't mean that notation will not work for me! But it sounds like worst case is I might have to wait a bit longer. That's fine. Good things are worth waiting for.
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04-29-2016, 07:09 PM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
Once their software exists, we'll deal with it.
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Heh, didn't know if you had seen that. Extant implementations are probably enough of a moving target without unreleased software in the mix as well
OT, Musescore is of interest to me for import
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04-29-2016, 08:01 PM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Reflection Free Zone
Posts: 3,026
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Ahh, they don't do beaming like they used to...
(Could be a FR here: Beam curve reflects note pitch)
Last edited by hamish; 05-03-2016 at 01:47 PM.
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04-30-2016, 12:53 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Norway
Posts: 7,318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
Regarding MuseScore, I don't think that their musicxml implementation currently supports importing layout (arbitrary x,y position) information. For example, when importing a musicxml file that contains specific instructions for spacing between individual notes, those instructions are ignored and the MuseScore's default spacing is used instead. Similarly, if you compose a score in MuseScore, move some notation objects away from their default positions, then export that file to musicxml and import it immediately back to MuseScore, positioning information is lost. For example, if you move a crescendo away from the note it is originally attached to, MuseScore will write its new position into the musicxml file, but ignore that position when re-importing. I believe this is a known issue that is intended to be fixed at some point.
This is not to pick on MuseScore; we've seen export/import inconsistencies with Sibelius and other programs as well. The point is just that musicxml interoperability is a moving target and it's unlikely that it will ever be the case you will be able to move scores freely between programs with total confidence that nothing needs to be tweaked on import.
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Agree with the others here.
I don't expect formatting and placement to translate perfect from one to the other.
This is mostly only tweaked before print (or when I'm sure what I'll print from).
But content should ideally be identical: triplets, ties, slurs, dynamics, lyrics, etc.
I understand that placement of harpins and such is significant content-wise, but I'm not sure how perfect you can make it
If there are important differences between the programs,
you could add some options in the ini-file, enabling us to get a smoother exchange of score.
__________________
Reaper x64, win 11
Composer, text-writer, producer
Bandcamp
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04-30-2016, 06:56 PM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Reflection Free Zone
Posts: 3,026
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I would also say that I don't see the MuseScore XML import limitations as a big issue. I doubt very much that I will want to tweak
layout positions in REAPER.
As long as all graphic elements are present (including the excellent chord symbols!) that will be great.
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05-03-2016, 08:13 AM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,923
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I use Lilypond! There's a converter - XML2lily I think - which I've not tried..
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05-04-2016, 01:34 AM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 521
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I'm in agreement with the others who say that preserving placement/spacing tweaks when going from Reaper to a dedicated notation editor is not a concern.
For me it's a non-issue really - if I'm importing the music xml into a dedicated editor, it will be for the purpose of making the tweaks there, not in Reaper.
Jennifer
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02-23-2018, 07:04 AM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 281
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I feel like the shy kid in class who's afraid to put his hand up and ask an apparently facile, stupid question. Oh well, I'm an adult now...and we all know there are more likely to be dumb answers than dumb questions...so here goes !
I do a lot of classical music editing, and typically the musicians are following a score written several hundred years ago..it may be a complex orchestral score or a solo piano or violin/piano duet...as a typical example.
When I'm editing it would be great to have the score scrolling along above the waveforms, as a sort of 'roadmap' to what's been recorded...and to at least key me in to the bar numbers. Just following a waveform alone feels like I'm only getting half the picture...and it makes editing much harder than it needs to be, as it's hard to identify the precise points to cut and join.
No MIDI, no electronic keyboards, no modern notation of simple dots and dashes, all acoustic instruments, played strictly to a score...I'd just like to be able to import an XML version of the score (obviously compressed if it's full orchestral...so it doesn't occupy the whole screen !)...and typically the waveforms are a simple stereo track (from an ORTF stereo mic overhead, or a more complex multitrack mixed down to stereo ...the editing typically occurs to the final stereo file alone.
So we're not talking about a lot of screen real-estate here !
Ideally this XML music score would run along the top of the arrange page like a video editing task...and perhaps be amenable to stretching, if the recorded music veers out of tempo with the score.
So there is my stupid question...I'd just like to see the music score roll along above (or below...or even in the middle of) my stereo wav files in Reaper...to act as my navigation map, to inform my edit cuts and pastes.
Is this currently possible...or is it too much to ask for ?
Sounds like a pretty simple ask (provided I can convert the existing printed scores to XML...there's another hurdle !)
This is 2018...please say it's feasible
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03-02-2018, 07:20 AM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,371
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I work with guitar notation mostly. Does this mean that Reaper will eventually recognize MusicXML data pertaining to fret position on both import and export?
Ex.:
- From GuitarPro7, I export to Reaper. (and I add an audio track and MIDI track, for example)
- From Reaper, I export to GuitarPro7.
Will the fret data remain?
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03-02-2018, 06:07 PM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Reflection Free Zone
Posts: 3,026
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REAPER chord symbols are exported with the XML.
On import to MuseScore they appear as staff text elements for styling, rather than chord symbols.
I just tested this now and immediately found a bug where the chord symbol is not displayed in REAPER... if the bar with the chord is at the start of the line the symbol is not displayed.
Last edited by hamish; 03-03-2018 at 02:04 AM.
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04-05-2018, 07:05 AM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 604
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I am surprised so many people use musescore, anyway:
"For me it's a non-issue really - if I'm importing the music xml into a dedicated editor, it will be for the purpose of making the tweaks there, not in Reaper."
I totally agree.
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04-07-2018, 07:57 AM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagalume
I am surprised so many people use musescore, anyway:
"For me it's a non-issue really - if I'm importing the music xml into a dedicated editor, it will be for the purpose of making the tweaks there, not in Reaper."
I totally agree.
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My workflow is the following:
1. I compose on the guitar
2. I elaborate, arrange and score it on Guitar Pro 7
3. I import the GP file to Reaper to record my playing; I need Reaper's notation capability
to read and play it on my guitar AND record it at the same time.
My projects are complex enough to need the chords and fret position displayed too,
so that's why displaying chord symbols and fret position would be awesome on Reaper;
I would not even need third party software.
Last edited by krahosk; 04-07-2018 at 08:09 AM.
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05-14-2020, 09:20 AM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,567
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I would love to be able to IMPORT from guitar pro to reaper using either the native file format or music xml and retaining certain guitar info like string assignment (could be translated to midi channel) or chords
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05-14-2020, 11:54 AM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill
I would love to be able to IMPORT from guitar pro to reaper using either the native file format or music xml and retaining certain guitar info like string assignment (could be translated to midi channel) or chords
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Would love that too. Especially with VStis such as Orange Tree and AmpleSound, they support MIDI channel and string assignement. I could import XML or Guitar Pro files and keep that MIDI data intact.
Last edited by krahosk; 05-14-2020 at 12:29 PM.
Reason: import not export
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12-31-2020, 01:57 AM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krahosk
Would love that too. Especially with VStis such as Orange Tree and AmpleSound, they support MIDI channel and string assignement. I could import XML or Guitar Pro files and keep that MIDI data intact.
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since this has already been necro-bumped a few times i'll do it again.
string data would be nice, but the lack of articulation porting is especially painful. quite a lot to re-key as midi, whereas an importable notation element that could be acted upon and mapped would streamline things immensely. as far as i can tell from some gp7 test exports, arobas is sticking to vanilla MusicXML 3.0 for things like palm mutes, string/fret data, etc for the vast majority of things. looks like they only stray for a few corner cases like vibrato for added granularity.
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