Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > REAPER General Discussion Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-17-2016, 10:28 AM   #1
Alma Mare
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 25
Default Best synth to learn synthetisis on?

Howdy o/

I'm mostly a rock/metal guy who's been perfectly happy so far recording with amp sims and basic mixing tools (EQ, comp, reverb). I've been getting curious about synths lately and I'm a bit tired of being dumbfounded everytime I look at those interfaces with all the ADSHR and LFO and filters and shit. A screenshot of a Massive patch gives me a migraine :P

I kind of understand the very basics (start with a wave and modulate its parameters with other waves) but I'm looking for a synth that would allow me to try out the different approaches, tools and types of modulation in a logic manner. Baby's first synth, if you will. Something not too overwhelming.

What would you guys recomend? Thanks!
Alma Mare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 10:34 AM   #2
Softsynth
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 8,696
Default

Synth1- increase the GUI to maximum size for ease of use:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synth1
Softsynth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 10:39 AM   #3
OPI
Human being with feelings
 
OPI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,900
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alma Mare View Post
Howdy o/

I'm mostly a rock/metal guy who's been perfectly happy so far recording with amp sims and basic mixing tools (EQ, comp, reverb). I've been getting curious about synths lately and I'm a bit tired of being dumbfounded everytime I look at those interfaces with all the ADSHR and LFO and filters and shit. A screenshot of a Massive patch gives me a migraine :P

I kind of understand the very basics (start with a wave and modulate its parameters with other waves) but I'm looking for a synth that would allow me to try out the different approaches, tools and types of modulation in a logic manner. Baby's first synth, if you will. Something not too overwhelming.

What would you guys recomend? Thanks!
Yep!! It all indeed looks very complicated. But if you start with one synth, learn it, you can use basically any other synth out there with a lot less confusion.

So if your going the free route use Charlatan. It's a synth with all the basics and sounds beautiful to me with some good patching.

If you want to pay for a synth I would recommend zeta2. The U.I might look a tad over whelming like massive but the reason I like it so much is because everything is perfectly layed out. There's the oscillator section, filters, envelopes, modulation, you name it. And it's all clearly separated so you can take one step at a time. Truly a beast for learning synth design.
OPI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 10:43 AM   #4
V'ger
Human being with feelings
 
V'ger's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,717
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Softsynth View Post
Synth1
Another vote for Synth1. All controls plus effects nicely laid out and sounds great with big range.

Added advantage is that there are several tutorials for it on Youtube.
V'ger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 10:51 AM   #5
Alma Mare
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 25
Default

Well, looking at the screenshot my brain is trying to flee to the back of my skull, but I get it's really as bare-bones as these things go. Thanks, I'll give it a shot!

As I load it, I can't figure out how to disable OSC 2 and what half of those controls do. Youtube, here I go!
Alma Mare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 10:52 AM   #6
OPI
Human being with feelings
 
OPI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,900
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by V'ger View Post
Another vote for Synth1. All controls plus effects nicely laid out and sounds great with big range.

Added advantage is that there are several tutorials for it on Youtube.
Yeah synth1 is great. It's gui makes me want to throw up the ramen noodles I just ate though. Also if the op is going to use synth1 there are over 10,000 presets for it. Find a good preset and try to recreate it with anther synth1. That's the best way to learn imho
OPI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 10:55 AM   #7
OPI
Human being with feelings
 
OPI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,900
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alma Mare View Post
Well, looking at the screenshot my brain is trying to flee to the back of my skull, but I get it's really as bare-bones as these things go. Thanks, I'll give it a shot!

As I load it, I can't figure out how to disable OSC 2 and what half of those controls do. Youtube, here I go!
Again the synth1 gui is pretty horrid. Charlatan will at least give you the organization that every other paid synth will give you. Also did I mention it's filter actually sound good!
OPI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 11:01 AM   #8
sostenuto
Human being with feelings
 
sostenuto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: St George, UT _ USA
Posts: 2,881
Default

Does this one make the list ?? PG-8X
https://sites.google.com/site/mlvst0/
sostenuto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 11:02 AM   #9
noise_construct
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,566
Default

I would recommend Brainstormer over the previously mentioned.

http://roazhondsp.storm-mastering.com

It has all the features and modulation routings of the stereotypic subtractive synth, very clear layout and complete manual.
noise_construct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 11:13 AM   #10
Alma Mare
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 25
Default

Am I wrong to assume that addictive synths and subtractive synths are in practice mutually exclusive? I'd figure it was a matter of configuring the thing, or flicking a knob, but most I've heard about so far are strictly subtractive. Am I missing something?
Alma Mare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 11:27 AM   #11
noise_construct
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,566
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alma Mare View Post
Am I wrong to assume that addictive synths and subtractive synths are in practice mutually exclusive? I'd figure it was a matter of configuring the thing, or flicking a knob, but most I've heard about so far are strictly subtractive. Am I missing something?
As the names suggest, they are polar opposites, but not mutually exclusive.

Additive synthesis implements the principle that every tone can be created by combining sine waves of the right amplitude and frequency. The interface for this functionality is radically different for normal synths, but nothing stops the designer from putting a filter after an additive oscillator- turning it into a hybrid.
noise_construct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 12:10 PM   #12
C-H
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 373
Default

A MiniMoog replica emulator is great to learn on. Basic and understandable classic subtractive synthesis.

Minimogue VA, CV-FreeMoog, Elektrostudio Model Mini for example.
Download from www.vst4free.com

Move on to more complex ones from there or even another type of synthesis. FM might be the next type to learn and if so, Dexed is good and free. It's a Yamaha DX7 emulator.

Another way to go is to get a modular synth. Kamiooka, Sonigen Modular for example.
__________________
Stash : M-Audio Oxygen 49 KeyMap
Stash : M-Audio Oxygen 49 v2 KeyMap
C-H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 12:31 PM   #13
MikComposer
Human being with feelings
 
MikComposer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1,989
Default

I learned doing synthesis with Massive actually. I still haven't tried ding that in Zebra ( but it's about time ). Massive is not as hard as it seams at first. It is a very good sounding synth too. The only gripe I have with it, and a minor one, is that it doesn't have a even notes sequencer, and instead it has bars, which is difficult to set to even pitches unfortunately.
__________________
My Royalty Free Music library
MikComposer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 12:37 PM   #14
OPI
Human being with feelings
 
OPI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,900
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikComposer View Post
I learned doing synthesis with Massive actually. I still haven't tried ding that in Zebra ( but it's about time ). Massive is not as hard as it seams at first. It is a very good sounding synth too. The only gripe I have with it, and a minor one, is that it doesn't have a even notes sequencer, and instead it has bars, which is difficult to set to even pitches unfortunately.
If you understand massive you shouldnt have too much of a problem in zebra. Why wait?
OPI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 12:39 PM   #15
viscofisy
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Dalriada
Posts: 13,367
Default

You'd be much better starting off on something like the free xoxos Clearsynth (the clue's in the name )



Quote:
A simple 2-oscillator synthesizer for students.

The first 42 patches progress through the features. The patch names should acquaint the user with a basic knowledge of subtractive synthesis
It's first on the list in the Synthesisers section of the following link :

http://www.xoxos.net/vst/vst.html
_
viscofisy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 12:43 PM   #16
OPI
Human being with feelings
 
OPI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,900
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by viscofisy View Post
You'd be much better starting off on something like the free xoxos Clearsynth (the clue's in the name )





It's first on the list in the Synthesisers section of the following link :

http://www.xoxos.net/vst/vst.html
_
That's awesome. For some reason I never saw the ui of clear synth. Definitely a good way to grasp the beginning concepts!
OPI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 12:45 PM   #17
bluzkat
Human being with feelings
 
bluzkat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Northern Michigan
Posts: 6,919
Default

You may want to try something like this...

http://www.syntorial.com/.

Enjoy.



__________________
Peace...
bluzkat
bluzkat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 12:45 PM   #18
X-Raym
Human being with feelings
 
X-Raym's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: France
Posts: 9,875
Default

Without any doubt Syntorial.


It is design for learning !

The Ultimate Synthesizer Tutorial
X-Raym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 12:45 PM   #19
MikComposer
Human being with feelings
 
MikComposer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1,989
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OPI View Post
If you understand massive you shouldnt have too much of a problem in zebra. Why wait?
You right. Don't know why. I did try a bit. The interface is a bit more messy, maybe that's why.
__________________
My Royalty Free Music library
MikComposer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 12:49 PM   #20
brainwreck
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,859
Default

What OPI said. Pick one, and pretend that no other synths exist until you know it really well. Charlatan does look pretty good to start with. Learn what it's parts are, how they interact, and make a bunch of patches with it - kicks, snares, hats, basses, leads, pads, whatever you like.

This is a good start for learning synthesis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atvtBE6t48M
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
brainwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 12:57 PM   #21
OPI
Human being with feelings
 
OPI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,900
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikComposer View Post
You right. Don't know why. I did try a bit. The interface is a bit more messy, maybe that's why.
Most likely it's the ui that's bothering you. I changed my zebra skin to the darker ui. A little less intruding. But I hear you
OPI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 01:07 PM   #22
ReaperMadness
Human being with feelings
 
ReaperMadness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Great Lakes, N. A.
Posts: 1,872
Default

This...



worked for me.

Last edited by ReaperMadness; 01-07-2017 at 10:48 AM.
ReaperMadness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 01:11 PM   #23
MikComposer
Human being with feelings
 
MikComposer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1,989
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperMadness View Post
This...



worked for me.
Very nice, but bit expensive, isn't it?
__________________
My Royalty Free Music library
MikComposer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 01:21 PM   #24
brainwreck
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,859
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluzkat View Post
You may want to try something like this...

http://www.syntorial.com/.

Enjoy.



That is a great idea.
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
brainwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 01:25 PM   #25
OPI
Human being with feelings
 
OPI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,900
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwreck View Post
That is a great idea.
Yep. I he said the first 22 lessons are free also. Would definitely be valuable to up-comers. I wonder if the guy ever though about doing an advanced version. I would definitely be interested.
OPI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 01:43 PM   #26
ReaperMadness
Human being with feelings
 
ReaperMadness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Great Lakes, N. A.
Posts: 1,872
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikComposer View Post
Very nice, but bit expensive, isn't it?
It was about $1500 usd in '78 so, yeah, that was a lot back then for me.
ReaperMadness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 01:58 PM   #27
C-H
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 373
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperMadness View Post
This...



worked for me.
Free emulator:

http://www.vst4free.com/free_vst.php?plugin=OR2v&id=796
__________________
Stash : M-Audio Oxygen 49 KeyMap
Stash : M-Audio Oxygen 49 v2 KeyMap
C-H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 02:13 PM   #28
V'ger
Human being with feelings
 
V'ger's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,717
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by V'ger View Post
Another vote for Synth1. All controls plus effects nicely laid out and sounds great with big range.

Added advantage is that there are several tutorials for it on Youtube.
Try for example to follow the tweaks in this video using the same MIDI file:

https://youtu.be/u2JWJkINSzI?list=PL...zypx_82xkxzmsN
V'ger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 02:18 PM   #29
LightOfDay
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Lower Rhine Area, DE
Posts: 964
Default

first sysnth I had under my hands was the Korg MS-20. now that thing is expensive as hardware and costs money as software.

so I think that the MinimogueVA (free version of a MiniMoog) is the first thing that comes to my mind if I think of THE synth at all. its clear as the clearsynth and has all the standard features a synth has to have. and it sounds awesome.

http://www.vst4free.com/free_vst.php?id=405
LightOfDay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 02:23 PM   #30
Softsynth
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 8,696
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LightOfDay View Post
first sysnth I had under my hands was the Korg MS-20. now that thing is expensive as hardware and costs money as software.

so I think that the MinimogueVA (free version of a MiniMoog) is the first thing that comes to my mind if I think of THE synth at all. its clear as the clearsynth and has all the standard features a synth has to have. and it sounds awesome.

http://www.vst4free.com/free_vst.php?id=405
Minimogue VA is an easy synth to recommend for sure. All of Gunnar Ekornås's excellent synth's are easy to recommend, especially the newer Memorymoon synth's.
Softsynth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 02:38 PM   #31
V'ger
Human being with feelings
 
V'ger's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,717
Default

Trouble with Minimogue VA is the use of terms like 'emphasis' 'contour' etc, which is slightly outdated and will just confuse.

Other simple synths suggested here might be clearer at first glance, but will not make as cool and fun sounds and might make learning a chore so bear that in mind.
V'ger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 02:50 PM   #32
noise_construct
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,566
Default

Minimoog and clones are fun synths but not particularly fun to program and like V'ger said, not exactly standard.

There's very little benefit to picking a very simple synth for learning. As long as the UI is clear and signal path conventional, a fully featured synth is a better platform to learning as you can use the same synth even after you've figured out what sustain does and how is saw different from a triangle.
noise_construct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 03:01 PM   #33
Stews
Human being with feelings
 
Stews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,392
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluzkat View Post
You may want to try something like this...

http://www.syntorial.com/.

Enjoy.



This is exactly what I was going to suggest. Excellent software.
Stews is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 03:14 PM   #34
Judders
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 11,044
Default

Start at the bottom and work your way up: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/allsynthsecrets.htm
Judders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 03:15 PM   #35
mschnell
Human being with feelings
 
mschnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,686
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alma Mare View Post
I'm looking for a synth that would allow me to try out the different approaches, tools and types of modulation
In fact there are lots of basic syntheses Algorithm. The most common (and supposedly what you have in mind) is "subtractive": [cyclic Oscillator] -> [Filter] -> [VCA} -> .

But there is completely different stuff like Wave-Table, FM (DX7), Karplus-Strong, ...

If you like you can do any of those directly in Reaper by writing JSFX a script.

-Michael

Last edited by mschnell; 02-18-2016 at 10:22 AM.
mschnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 04:09 PM   #36
Softsynth
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 8,696
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by V'ger View Post
Trouble with Minimogue VA is the use of terms like 'emphasis' 'contour' etc, which is slightly outdated and will just confuse.

Other simple synths suggested here might be clearer at first glance, but will not make as cool and fun sounds and might make learning a chore so bear that in mind.
Hmm, plain English terms with explanation boxes too!
Self explanatory, especially when you play with it.
Contour in this case is merely referring to shaping the filter itself and loudness control. The filter being a classic ADSR used in pretty much every synth.
It is a classic subtractive synth set up. Cracking sounding synth too and CPU friendly. Sadly it doesn't come in 64bit flavour but plays nicely with Reaper when bridged. Anyone that likes classic analogue subtractive synths should have MiniMogueVA.
Softsynth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 04:12 PM   #37
lolilol1975
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,739
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by noise_construct View Post
I would recommend Brainstormer over the previously mentioned.

http://roazhondsp.storm-mastering.com

It has all the features and modulation routings of the stereotypic subtractive synth, very clear layout and complete manual.
Damn, I was going to second Charlatan, but this one looks like the perfect learning synth indeed. Much more evolved than Charlatan, but super clear interface.
Plus it comes with a manual that's actually a full course in subtractive synthesis !

Last edited by lolilol1975; 02-17-2016 at 04:19 PM.
lolilol1975 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 04:22 PM   #38
brainwreck
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,859
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lolilol1975 View Post
Damn, I was going to second Charlatan, but this one looks like the perfect learning synth indeed. Much more evolved than Charlatan, but super clear interface.
I think the Charlatan interface is cleaner and would be less confusing for a beginner, having fewer controls and controls that are standard stuff. And it has sync and unison, which should be standard stuff on any synth.
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
brainwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 04:34 PM   #39
OPI
Human being with feelings
 
OPI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,900
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwreck View Post
I think the Charlatan interface is cleaner and would be less confusing for a beginner, having fewer controls and controls that are standard stuff. And it has sync and unison, which should be standard stuff on any synth.
Did I mention it sounds pretty good too? Here's a demo someone made all with charlatan from scratch.

https://m.soundcloud.com/oscillian/dark-dawn
OPI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 05:10 PM   #40
EpicSounds
Human being with feelings
 
EpicSounds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,568
Default

TAL Noisemaker is pretty easy to learn with.
__________________
REAPER Video Tutorials, Tips & Tricks and more at The REAPER Blog
EpicSounds is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.