Old 11-09-2007, 09:15 PM   #1
historic stork
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Default $2500 for a Professional DAW?!

I'm having a hard time understanding how any other program can have $2300 worth of features that aren't in Reaper. SAW Studio costs $2500, with lesser versions costing less. Nuendo 4 costs about $1800. I'm hardly familiar with SAW, but I can see that Nuendo is more robust than Reaper in a few areas. I just don't believe that it's $1800 more robust.

My question is for anyone who's familiar with these two products and how they differ from Reaper. (other than price ) Is there something I'm missing?
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Old 11-09-2007, 09:31 PM   #2
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Nuendo has post-spesific features, I guess it's assumed that people doing that stuff have the money to pay for them...SAW, I think, is developed by a single guy. I guess he needs to charge a lot to make a decent living out of the software. (Also the high price tag brings a certain prestige to the product..."Gotta be great for this high a price!" )

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Old 11-09-2007, 11:38 PM   #3
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I'm having a hard time understanding how any other program can have $2300 worth of features that aren't in Reaper. SAW Studio costs $2500, with lesser versions costing less. Nuendo 4 costs about $1800. I'm hardly familiar with SAW, but I can see that Nuendo is more robust than Reaper in a few areas. I just don't believe that it's $1800 more robust.

My question is for anyone who's familiar with these two products and how they differ from Reaper. (other than price ) Is there something I'm missing?

It's worth the price if you take the time to become familiar with the software. Extremely fast editing capabilities, more efficient than reaper, and nearly bug-free.

Sawstudio is worth the money if you are absolutely, positively requiring stability and pure efficiency without compromising most features. Some daws have some more modern things though.. but nuendo, logic, reaper etc.. are all fairly riddled with bugs. Sawstudio is not, and like reaper, when a bug is found it is fixed very quickly.

It may not be worth the money to you, but for people who are making a living in time-critical and performance-critical areas of audio work, it's worth every cent.
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Old 11-10-2007, 08:04 AM   #4
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i can't speak to Nuendo but I had SAW full for a few years. You can get it for 2K still..........i could not reconcile that it was worth it. it is possibly the most stable software but reaper and podium have never crashed on me either!

SAW chooses not to use some of the simple windows features we have become used to. it would drive me crazy to open the program to a blank slate (no choice there), locate my last project, find the folder and make sure when you start it-it is saving to the proper folder(otherwise files all over hell with no reference). it operates like a 70's console so that was cool. but the long and short is i do not feel it is worth 2K. tracks are still limited, routing is limited, etc.

i think sequioa might be the most expensive software today. 3K i believe!
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Old 11-10-2007, 09:10 AM   #5
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i can't speak to Nuendo but I had SAW full for a few years. You can get it for 2K still..........i could not reconcile that it was worth it. it is possibly the most stable software but reaper and podium have never crashed on me either!

SAW chooses not to use some of the simple windows features we have become used to. it would drive me crazy to open the program to a blank slate (no choice there), locate my last project, find the folder and make sure when you start it-it is saving to the proper folder(otherwise files all over hell with no reference). it operates like a 70's console so that was cool. but the long and short is i do not feel it is worth 2K. tracks are still limited, routing is limited, etc.

i think sequioa might be the most expensive software today. 3K i believe!

Saw supports file association, and it also defaults files to the proper directories if you set it up that way.

Podium has crashed on me numerous times, can't say reaper has crashed yet but I have found a number of (reported on the forum) bugs that affect me slightly.

I do believe pt accel|hd is more expensive than sequoia, and so is sadie. Pyramix also becomes quite expensive as well, but the program itself is not. There are a few daws that are >$2k and the difference in price compared to reaper comes down to a small set of features that can be _very_ important for some people. If you can't see the allure of the more expensive daws, then I suspect that's why you're here and using reaper (not a jab at reaper users, I love the program!)

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Old 11-10-2007, 10:23 AM   #6
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Saw supports file association, and it also defaults files to the proper directories if you set it up that way.

Podium has crashed on me numerous times, can't say reaper has crashed yet but I have found a number of (reported on the forum) bugs that affect me slightly.
unless my memory is that bad SAW opens up to an empty project. you can set audio to a directory but unless you go into file path it only saves to the designated directory. so D:\Audio\SAW ... but no way for it to open up to a project specific. if i remember, the above was my set up. if my song was Love and i save that in the file path then every time SAW opens it opens to the dfault path Love. personally i did not like that but i know Bob did.

to the thread, some, of course, think it is worth 2K. i just don't.

i have been lucky then with podium. it has been my main daw since i left SAW and it has performed perfectly. it is not a perfect daw but the engine has been. reaper too, i just don't use it as much.
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Old 11-10-2007, 10:29 AM   #7
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I do believe pt accel|hd is more expensive than sequoia, and so is sadie. Pyramix also becomes quite expensive as well, but the program itself is not. There are a few daws that are >$2k and the difference in price compared to reaper comes down to a small set of features that can be _very_ important for some people. If you can't see the allure of the more expensive daws, then I suspect that's why you're here and using reaper (not a jab at reaper users, I love the program!)

yeah, i guess i never consider HD cause i am not a pro. a pro friend of mine has it and i think it is outstanding. but......he paid 40k for the whole set up and then paid some big time engineer in L.A. to come out for a week to help him learn the ins and outs. for him it makes sense.

i have never seen sadie but since you mention it i have heard of it........just don't remember what?
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Old 11-10-2007, 10:39 AM   #8
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As a user of both SAW Lite ( 36 tracks + 4 layers ) and Reaper my take is this
Saw is Dead stable in 4 yrs only 2 crashes and those were caused by free bad plugins !! , Saw has it's limitations and is dictated by the developer as to the functions etc. ( I asked for a routing screen like Reaper and the idea got canned BUT !!! )

Saw also has 5 band parametric EQ and Comp/de-esser , aux sends , gate built into each channel with literally NO CPU loading when all tracks are using them !!!

The Automation is VERY easy to use and fairly intuitive , grouping of tracks for automation is easy , re-doing is easy and the display is fairly easy to see what is happening , Saw's Automation is POWERFUL and VERY accurate.

It could use some help in the routing dept. and could use some extra features but it is designed for AUDIO RECORDING mainly , there is the Midi Workshop @ $300 that is SAMPLE ACCURATE and from the demo uses it is easy and stable.

Saw uses some very unconventional keyboard commands that take alot of time to get used to and remember but it is very FAST and fluent once you get them down , it's not for everyone thats for sure , for me as my first main DAW the pull was the console layout ( I learned on old big consoles ) so it was natural to me
Saw Lite $900

Reaper :

Reaper is a very cool fast growing app. that has lots of promise and a big future IMO , I love the routing !!!!!!!! lots of ways to get there , I like the midi ( thats why I bought it for $49 instead of $300 for the Saw midi !!! )

Reaper has crashed on me several times when working fast ( having auto play media items on and inserting a track kills it !!) and some other times that I did not document or bother to run down.

Reaper for an AUDIO app. has some shortcomings that I am sure will be addressed in the future , the main one for me is the AUtomation !! , it lacks several features for serious mixing ( these have been well documented in threads here ! ) being able to PAUSE before record is armed , PUNCH in recording that is NOT loop based ( just regular old punch in HUMMMM??? ) no EQ per track etc.

Reaper is fast and easy to learn , it seems to be more geared towards the individual musician rather than the engineeer at this point in time IMO ! I could see recording in Reaper BUT I would have to mix in Saw !! ( I tried a mix in Reaper and gave up it was almost impossible for me to do any kind of subgroup based mix's and print stems , maybe I need a new look at it but I should be able to setup groups that are NOT folders for subgroup based mix's ????? )

Oh and ReaRoute is the BOMB !!

Anyhow thats my 0.02 cents

Later
Buzz

PS: this is the longest post I will EVER MAKE !!!! LOL
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Old 11-10-2007, 10:44 AM   #9
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hey Mike, how's things?

you can see how i am spending my Sat am!

i agree with what you say. and......i forgot to mention the automation for SAW, still the best i have used.

i am being summoned to buy lunch!....this was cheaper.......... it's good to have a dad!
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Old 11-10-2007, 10:46 AM   #10
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Doing good Sam !! hows the Reaper world for you ??? , I have been using it mainly for midi and then exporting over to Saw for finals etc.

Later
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Old 11-10-2007, 10:52 AM   #11
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mike, i use it mainly to help out two friends that are great musicians but beginner recordists. so we trade files and i understand reaper well enough to help them.

most of my recording is in podium cause it offers, like reaper and saw, enough and more....... than i need. and, i really like the layout... which is my main reason for using it most!



see ya
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Old 11-10-2007, 11:04 AM   #12
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...it lacks several features for serious mixing ( these have been well documented in threads here ! ) being able to PAUSE before record is armed ,...
Hmm, not following you here, Buzz. Could you give some more details about how this should work and how youd use it?


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I tried a mix in Reaper and gave up it was almost impossible for me to do any kind of subgroup based mix's and print stems , maybe I need a new look at it but I should be able to setup groups that are NOT folders for subgroup based mix's ?????

You can make subgroups without using folders...setup a new track and recieve postfader from each track you want to subgroup, then use the routing matrix to disable the master/parent sends on all the sub'd tracks.

Tip: If you select all the tracks you want to sub then r-click an i/o button on one of them, you can create multiple sends with one click. (Might wanna set the default for sends to postfader in options>pref>project>defaults).

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Old 11-10-2007, 11:12 AM   #13
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I'm having a hard time understanding how any other program can have $2300 worth of features that aren't in Reaper.
Hypothetical situation. Phone rings...

Fred: "Hello... Reaper studios... how may I help you?"

Joe: "Hi, I have a large project I need to mix. It's in OMF and AAF formats. The studio I was working in had a fire and went out of business, thank god I had my masters. I need to mix 12 songs for an album in 12 days to meet a deadline. Can you help me?"

Fred: "We can't read and write OMF/AAF but if you can get those converted to flat files we can. We use this great software called Rea... "

(interrupted by Joe who doesn't have time to screw around...)

Joe: "... thanks anyway. Have a nice day." (Click)

Fred: (to business partner John) "Shit. We just lost a ton of money. I told you we shoulda got Nuendo and just paid the goddamn $1650! You and your freaking '..I don't see $1500 worth of difference...'" We still coulda mixed in Reaper!

John: "Bite me dude. Reaper rules! We don't want those corporate stiffs money anyway! It the re-vo-lu-tion man! Digi is shaking in their boots! Besides, don't worry... my kids band is coming in later. I think they got their allowances today..."

Fred: (Sighs and contemplates suicide... or better yet, murdering John...)



I will now run and hide...

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Old 11-10-2007, 11:37 AM   #14
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unless my memory is that bad SAW opens up to an empty project. you can set audio to a directory but unless you go into file path it only saves to the designated directory. so D:\Audio\SAW ... but no way for it to open up to a project specific. if i remember, the above was my set up. if my song was Love and i save that in the file path then every time SAW opens it opens to the dfault path Love. personally i did not like that but i know Bob did.

to the thread, some, of course, think it is worth 2K. i just don't.

i have been lucky then with podium. it has been my main daw since i left SAW and it has performed perfectly. it is not a perfect daw but the engine has been. reaper too, i just don't use it as much.
Sam, see 4.0 feature changes.

You can also set the file path to blank, and it will default to project directory.

Funny, I always manage to find you and mike and tim everywhere I go
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Old 11-10-2007, 11:43 AM   #15
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Hypothetical situation. Phone rings...

Fred: "Hello... Reaper studios... how may I help you?"

Joe: "Hi, I have a large project I need to mix. It's in OMF and AAF formats. The studio I was working in had a fire and went out of business, thank god I had my masters. I need to mix 12 songs for an album in 12 days to meet a deadline. Can you help me?"

Fred: "We can't read and write OMF/AAF but if you can get those converted to flat files we can. We use this great software called Rea... "

(interrupted by Joe who doesn't have time to screw around...)

Joe: "... thanks anyway. Have a nice day." (Click)

Fred: (to business partner John) "Shit. We just lost a ton of money. I told you we shoulda got Nuendo and just paid the goddamn $1650! You and your freaking '..I don't see $1500 worth of difference...'" We still coulda mixed in Reaper!

John: "Bite me dude. Reaper rules! We don't want those corporate stiffs money anyway! It the re-vo-lu-tion man! Digi is shaking in their boots! Besides, don't worry... my kids band is coming in later. I think they got their allowances today..."

Fred: (Sighs and contemplates suicide... or better yet, murdering John...)



I will now run and hide...

unfortunately, at least here in the US, it would go down more like this:

"I have our album that we recorded in PT. You guys have PT right?"
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Old 11-10-2007, 11:49 AM   #16
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I'm having a hard time understanding how any other program can have $2300 worth of features that aren't in Reaper.
Exactly!

This is the worlds greatest studios almost exclusively use Radio-Shack microphones and Behringer processors.

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Old 11-10-2007, 11:53 AM   #17
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Bill go here for the automation http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthre...big+automation

regarding Subs that is a way to do it OR you could just insert a subgroup ??? FR maybe , that seems to be a cludgey way to do it but I'm sure it works ?? .

As far as automation goes I find it very UN-user friendly ( of course I dont come from PT etc. which I hear is a PITA also so ?? )

Read the thread

Later
Buzz

Nice one Justin LMFAO !!!

MAN if it ain't PT it aint CHIT ~~~~~~~~~
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Old 11-10-2007, 12:18 PM   #18
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Yeah, will be cool when we get ganged faders that can be automated...but it was this bit that i dont understand...


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...being able to PAUSE before record is armed

How is this used?
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Old 11-10-2007, 12:19 PM   #19
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unfortunately, at least here in the US, it would go down more like this:

"I have our album that we recorded in PT. You guys have PT right?"
agreed - the chances of a non engineer knowing the difference between OMF & AAF formats is slim

Some ( I wouldn't say most) will ask the PT question, so it would go down something like this;

"I have our album that we recorded in PT. You guys have PT right?"

"Well no but I have a great program called re.." -CLICK - "hello.....helloooo.....awww $hit!"
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Old 11-10-2007, 12:33 PM   #20
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unfortunately, at least here in the US, it would go down more like this:

"I have our album that we recorded in PT. You guys have PT right?"

I know, which is why I went to run and hide after writing that little stage play.
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Old 11-10-2007, 01:09 PM   #21
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Bill it would be nice ( like some other app's ) if you could set to REC/PAUSE and just hit the space bar !! for a single person with a guitar in hand this would make life MUCH easier !!! in the studio

Later
Buzz

sometimes it's the little ergonomic things that make a BIG difference
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Old 11-10-2007, 02:07 PM   #22
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Ahh, gotcha.

Ive got F1 mapped to "record" so i just hit that to start recording and F2 has stop>undo>record, so i can restart with a single button press when i stuff up(that one gets a lot of use ).
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Old 11-10-2007, 02:17 PM   #23
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Funny, I always manage to find you and mike and tim everywhere I go

so who is following who?

Phoenix, if i was a pro i am sure i would have a very different point of view. i am a hobbyist. almost any program, literally, can do as much and more than i need. funny though, over the years, i sure have enjoyed digging into these different programs!

i was thinking about looking at samplitude again. i have an old license and a friend that keeps telling me that i am missing something good. i kinda doubt it, but...........
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Old 11-10-2007, 03:57 PM   #24
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FWIW PT cant read or write OMF without an add on that costs more than the EDL convert Pro app you add to reaper

Id say best bet is to buy the (reaper inspired?) PT USB Dongle for 250 and say "yeah, we have pro tools"
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Old 11-10-2007, 04:41 PM   #25
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Bill it would be nice ( like some other app's ) if you could set to REC/PAUSE and just hit the space bar !! for a single person with a guitar in hand this would make life MUCH easier !!! in the studio

Later
Buzz

sometimes it's the little ergonomic things that make a BIG difference

I have the wireless Frontier TranzPort DAW controller and it is a godsend for the single person recording. No need to be tied to your DAW. I can be in another room up to 30 feet away or even on another floor. REAPER's TranzPort implementation is comprehensive and works flawlessly. It does what you want to do too! When you press the "REC" button and then the "PLAY" button it PAUSES record until you press the "PLAY" button again and continues to record where you last paused it. Once you stop recording you end up with one contiguous media file. Justin made some improvements where you now get a realtime visual meter on the LED display so you can watch your levels, as well. Besides full transport control, it does so many other things, like navagation control, horizontal in/out zoom, setting loop points, add markers, add region, adjusting track/bus pan, volume, mute, solo, undo, etc. The one thing I would like to see implemented, Justin if you are listening is the footswitch control. I would like to be able to use my DP2 footswitch to start & stop playback, for hands free operation while I am playing my guitar.

Cheers,

Billy Buck

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Old 11-10-2007, 05:24 PM   #26
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The one thing I would like to see implemented, Justin if you are listening is the footswitch control. I would like to be able to use my DP2 footswitch to start & stop playback, for hands free operation while I am playing my guitar.
+1

BUT, the one thing I'd like to see is abort/restart by just pressing the record button again...
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Old 11-10-2007, 05:51 PM   #27
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FWIW PT cant read or write OMF without an add on that costs more than the EDL convert Pro app you add to reaper

Id say best bet is to buy the (reaper inspired?) PT USB Dongle for 250 and say "yeah, we have pro tools"
I am thinking the same thing myself. Just to have around for any client that requests PT.
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Old 11-11-2007, 12:21 AM   #28
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well, this seems to be the longest thread i have ever started. congrats to me!

I didn't mean to say that expensive software isn't worth its cost, I was just trying to understand. It's hard to convey genuine interest on the internet.

for the sake of perspective, $2500 would be a quarter of my yearly income right now. I understand many people have little patience, and maybe that's why stability comes at such a premium. And I also acknowledge that all bugs are not created equal. I still haven't experienced any project-killing bugs in Reaper.

I do appreciate the feedback I've received, and I'm especially glad that it comes from experienced SAW and Reaper users. Thanks, guys.
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Old 11-11-2007, 04:36 AM   #29
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well, this seems to be the longest thread i have ever started. congrats to me!

I didn't mean to say that expensive software isn't worth its cost, I was just trying to understand. It's hard to convey genuine interest on the internet.

for the sake of perspective, $2500 would be a quarter of my yearly income right now. I understand many people have little patience, and maybe that's why stability comes at such a premium. And I also acknowledge that all bugs are not created equal. I still haven't experienced any project-killing bugs in Reaper.

I do appreciate the feedback I've received, and I'm especially glad that it comes from experienced SAW and Reaper users. Thanks, guys.
IMHO Reaper is just as stable as SAW if not more.
The biggest difference, is that if a plugin doesnīt run in Reaper itīs accepted as a bug.

And Saw may run low latency great, but as soon as you insert a levelizer (Bobīs own Masterlimitter) or other plugins with latency, things start messing up.
Completely different history with Reaper. Bobīs answer to implementing Rewire, is itīs way to complicated, and could have an impact on stability.
Justinīs was to implement Rewire within a few days.

At my work we use ProTools it really has some great things, and if the price isnīt important, you get a great system for 40k.
But for musicprodution, i could make just the same music, in reaper. And Reaper let me bring the mix home on my laptop with the same plugins. Render the mix, way faster. Route things as i want. etc.

Fact is, if Reaper cost 2500$ it would have the status of the others majors.
Maybe Justin should make a Goldpro version, with to extra nibble games in it, for the price of 2500$, this way we could say that reaper is a VERY expensive system, when the guy calls and ask for ProTools.
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Old 11-11-2007, 06:28 AM   #30
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FWIW PT cant read or write OMF without an add on that costs more than the EDL convert Pro app you add to reaper

Id say best bet is to buy the (reaper inspired?) PT USB Dongle for 250 and say "yeah, we have pro tools"
I agree. I have the original MBox just so I can say that.

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Originally Posted by olzzon View Post
Fact is, if Reaper cost 2500$ it would have the status of the others majors.
Nothing to do specifically with Reaper but I'm not sure about that. Those applications didn't start out costing $1800 or $2500. They kinda grew up to that point I think. Reaper will also. "Grow" it's perceptions in the industry that is.

Here's a Internet post from 1995. SAW listed for $599 which was a good price considering what it did... which wasn't much compared to what daws do now. He was marketing it to people that would pay 30k+ for tape machines and 50k or much more for mixing consoles. N____o and SAW and PTHD are targeting similar higher end pro users.

If Reaper had existed back then exactly as it does now, it probably could have demanded $5k easily and been worth every penny.

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Software Audio Workshop (SAW) lists for $599. Here are some of its features:
* 4 track stereo playback
* Automated mixing (remembers your level changes and replays them)
* Play back and record simultaneously on sound cards that support it
* Non-destructive playlist editing
This is a great feature folks. It's basically a pattern based
sequencer for your audio data. You select a region of a sound file
and then create a sequence of that and other regions playing back
at different times along a track. You don't need to mangle your
soundfile to move stuff around.
* Backup your sound to audio DAT in real time (fast compared to some
backup systems)
All of your sound files are recorded to the tape and a file
containing information about those sound files is saved on one
disk. Even if you don't have a digital connection to your DAT
recorder, the loss in signal quality in going from your sound
card to your DAT recorder should be minimal.
* Does everything really fast. This program appears to have been
coded to minimize the amount of time you have to wait for the
program to do its thing. Everything is really responsive and
quick.
As an application gains more and more acceptance from working pros in the industry (music, radio, video) you can gradually raise the price. Reaper will cost $5-600 or more one day I think and still be a great value. It's worth more than the $250 that it costs already.

SAW had a big headstart on building those industry perceptions and is one of the most expensive daws out there.

P.S. You'd be hard-pressed to find a Sequoia user who feels he paid too much for it. It's a $3k application that has features that I don't even know exactly what they are for, but the users who use them do. Like a Digasystem Interface ... http://www.samplitude.com/eng/seq/digas.html I have no idea what that is.

Last edited by Lawrence; 11-11-2007 at 07:27 AM.
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Old 11-11-2007, 07:25 AM   #31
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P.S. You'd be hard-pressed to find a Sequoia user who feels he paid too much for it. It's a GREAT application. $3k. http://www.samplitude.com/eng/seq/uebersicht.html

i am curious what makes sequoia great?

now i reread your comment and i realize you are also saying you might not understand---nevermind.
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Old 11-11-2007, 07:36 AM   #32
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i am curious what makes sequoia great?

now i reread your comment and i realize you are also saying you might not understand---nevermind.
Yeah, that's kinda the point. You'd have to ask a radio station or similar that uses Sequoia to find out. I do know it's great though because it's at least as much as Samp and certainly more.

And Samp is a great daw. But to get to $3k you gotta find out how it's used by people that paid $3k for it. I pretty sure most are not mostly recording and mixing pop songs. It's pretty popular in radio stations I think.

Here's the feature list for all of their daws.

http://www.samplitude.com/eng/seq/vers_unt.html

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Old 11-11-2007, 07:42 AM   #33
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And Samp is a great daw.

i used samp 6 for quite awhile. my friend is using 9 and insists i would have more fum if i came back.

do you use samp? any more opinions about it in 9 or upcoming 10?
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Old 11-11-2007, 07:58 AM   #34
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i used samp 6 for quite awhile. my friend is using 9 and insists i would have more fum if i came back.

do you use samp? any more opinions about it in 9 or upcoming 10?
I demoed it at least 5-6 different times (everytime they release a new version really ) and I like it a lot. It always is, for me anyway, very stable and it sounds really good out of the box just using it's built in eq and effects. It's damn near a perfect daw (no daw can do everything but it's darn close).

Being able to open a mixer and tweak a mix without adding eq plugins is nice. especially in Samp. I truly love the Samp mixer layout, it's like working on a real console.

http://www.samplitude.com/eng/sam/gr...ixer_gross.jpg

It just all came down to me preferring the Cubase GUI, workflow and midi methods.

But Sampitude really has no flaws that I could see... and plenty of advantages... like burning CD's and DVD's from the timeline... like a convo reverb that can sound as good as Altiverb at times to my ears. It's about as close to being a perfect (out of the box, don't need anything else) daw as exists right now at that level. Everything else comes down to subjective stuff like GUI.

One could buy the full version of Samp and not buy any other software and get virtually everything you need done with high quality without using anytyhing else. It's worth every penny in my view.

I think it's included plugins are as good or better than many 3rd party plugins. If I didn't have this attachment to the Cubase GUI and workflow I'd be using Samplitude. No doubt about it.

And still may one day. I can't seem to just walk away from it.

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Old 11-11-2007, 08:05 AM   #35
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thanks Lawrence. i might take a look again. i remember liking the mixer and a very professional feel. my 2496 producer edition came in my FF800 box a few years back. i might check out a new demo and see.
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Old 11-11-2007, 08:16 AM   #36
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thanks Lawrence. i might take a look again. i remember liking the mixer and a very professional feel. my 2496 producer edition came in my FF800 box a few years back. i might check out a new demo and see.
Notice how in that Samp mixer graphic the eq is right there in front of you like a real mixer. I really love that. You just reach out and turn a knob without switching views like in the Cubase mixer or loading a plugin.

And you use your ears since there is no graphical eq curve display to distract you. As it was for many years before daws, turn a knob until it sounds like what you want.

Every track doesn't need that expensive plugin EQ. Actually, I think most tracks don't.
P.S. They give people stuff in the box that we Cubase users have to go looking for, like 1/2 gb of quality impulses...

Quote:
Realtime room simulator with convolution (incl. 490 MB impulse samples)
It sounds really good. http://www.samplitude.com/eng/sam/raumsimulator.html

It would be really, really cool for Cockos to build up a high quality impulse library and presets for Reapers convo verb plug.

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Old 11-11-2007, 08:46 AM   #37
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i'm messing with the sam 9 demo. pretty cool so far.

yeah, the convo library sure would be nice!
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Old 11-11-2007, 09:09 AM   #38
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i'm messing with the sam 9 demo. pretty cool so far.
Check out the mixer snapshots and the blue "A" automation button next to the solo button on the mixer.

Very cool. Click it and just write automation. When you want it off you just ... turn it off. As it should be. No menus or navigation. Mixing (even with the mouse) in that thing is easy. It even has 4 banks to minimize mixer scrolling (left of faders).

It blows the Cubase mixer away... well some others do too I guess... but that mixer is very well done.

They also ripped the Cubase inspector right down to per track text notes and did it better overall. I don't particularly like the way they display things in the TCP or the way the audio/midi things are presented on the tracks.

Subjective stuff. I also prefer the Cubendo automation lanes and not having all those envelopes on the same track.

Their folder tracks are sweet though. They took it up a notch as shown below. You can actually still see the peaks on the child audio tracks which means you'll have to open them far less when editing across tracks. It looks like lanes, but that's a closed folder track.

Pretty darn cool.


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Old 11-11-2007, 09:38 AM   #39
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Fact is, if Reaper cost 2500$ it would have the status of the others majors.
Totally. I've always felt that. A mere question of perception.

So just make the "pro" edition:
* 10x the price
* throw a few meg of zeros in the installer to silence those who say "but it's only 3Mb - can't be that good!" (grrr)
* hide the word shareware (which a lot of people I know see as suggesting "handy single-purpose tools written by keen hobbyists" - not complete systems written by those responsible for audio player software that's already on millions of PCs)

That way people would be less likely to make assumptions about what the app might or might not do before they even try it. Yet it could hardly be easier to test, could it?

For my personal (i'd say fairly demanding) needs there are certainly less shortcomings in REAPER than there were in ProTools HD!

When you eat at a popular, well-established but expensive restaurant you expect a damn good meal and no excuses or apologies. Anything less than 100% becomes easily noticeable. That's why I stopped dining at Digi and chose the reasonably-priced new joint in town with great quality, a huge menu and friendly service. The one that's prepared to put a suggestion box out front and let you know that new dishes are being added all the time.

Sorry about the extended food analogy - I'm hungry.

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Old 11-11-2007, 11:41 AM   #40
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I couldn't give a fuck if people are missing out, fuck 'em. Judgmental pricks deserve to get ripped off for $2500 for software that could be replaced for $200.

And don't give me this "oh but SAW has this and that and Reaper doesn't and Reaper is riddled with bugs and saw isn't!" bullshit either, because that's exactly what it is: bullshit.

A DAW doesn't need to do anything other than record audio and midi and give you some basic editing. Anything else is in there for the benefit of the user, but isn't ESSENTIAL to using the program. I don't use even 10% of Reapers capabilities, and I'm of the mind that most people probably don't either.

Except Chip McDonald, he uses 99% of Reaper, except for the 1% midi features, because he is a real musician.

And all you producer types... let me pose you this:

They didn't have all this choice back in the 60's and 70's (and before that too) they had a bunch of tape and a record button. They just did it, they didn't need an update or a developer forum to engage in.

They used their imaginations, which is what a lot of todays music and production techniques are lacking. And YOU guys are helping to fill the world with bile and garbage. I hope you're happy!

Sure, I'm skint as a skunk, and I have no recording contract with a label and all that.. but I have a big dick, a hot girlfriend, and a fuck load more imagination that these Mark Ronson [winkie heads] that keep popping up everywhere.

And YOU guys are helping them.
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