Midi notes at same time. Can I control the send order?

[Dex]

When I'm sequencing midi I often have notes starting at the exact same time on the midi score.



When this happens it seems like Reaper sends the highest-pitch note to whatever vst I have on the track first. Can I reverse that order? For instance, in the attached picture I'd like to have the C2 send before the G2.

(I'd like it to work this way when I'm sequencing keyswitches at the bottom end of the keyboard.)

[ijijn]

Conceptually, you could do it fairly easily with a custom JSFX or VST plugin. You'd need to store a list of all notes at a particular position and then output them in the order you wanted.

I've occasionally seen some funny note ordering from one plugin to the next, so it could get fiddly.

[ivansc]

Back in the old days I used to do this by staggering the start points my minute amounts. Assuming you are using a fine enough resolution for your MIDI (384 or better should work) this SHOULD take care of the problem provided the VST can react quickly enough. I was using hardware when I was doing it but theoretically the MIDI stream should be the same.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Dex

When I'm sequencing midi I often have notes starting at the exact same time on the midi score.

When this happens it seems like Reaper sends the highest-pitch note to whatever vst I have on the track first. Can I reverse that order? For instance, in the attached picture I'd like to have the C2 send before the G2.

(I'd like it to work this way when I'm sequencing keyswitches at the bottom end of the keyboard.)

Like Ivan says, you have to separate them some. I've found that when I use keyswitches, I have to space the notes about 26 tics apart, I have my tpq set at 960 tics per quarter note. Now that's at 95 to 120 BPM.

What I need to do is measure it in milliseconds to be accurate at all BPMs, but right now it's working the way I want it too.

[Dex]

Originally Posted by ivansc

Back in the old days I used to do this by staggering the start points my minute amounts. Assuming you are using a fine enough resolution for your MIDI (384 or better should work) this SHOULD take care of the problem provided the VST can react quickly enough. I was using hardware when I was doing it but theoretically the MIDI stream should be the same.

Yes I can do this but it's extremely irritating and disruptive to my workflow to have to do it every time I want to sequence a keyswitch.

[ivansc]

Originally Posted by Dex

Yes I can do this but it's extremely irritating and disruptive to my workflow to have to do it every time I want to sequence a keyswitch.

Pretty easy to adjust your workflow to allow for this, actually. One extra toolbar click per switch to shift your position isn`t much to actually solve your problem, is it?

Maybe us old MIDI campaigners just grew up with so much less we dont mind a little grunt work.

[juliansader]

Developers can place keyswitches in the highest range or the lowest range -- or both, for complex instruments --, and can use all kinds of combinations of latching and non-latching keyswitches that may even overlap the played range.

It is much easier for the user to simply position keyswitches a little ahead of the played notes.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by juliansader

Developers can place keyswitches in the highest range or the lowest range -- or both, for complex instruments --, and can use all kinds of combinations of latching and non-latching keyswitches that may even overlap the played range.

It is much easier for the user to simply position keyswitches a little ahead of the played notes.

Hi julian, the biggest problem for me is, there is a minimum distance that the keyswitchs need to be placed in order for them to work. When you've got 2, 3, even 4 notes that all need different keyswitches, it takes a bit to get them right, and still have no noticeable separation of the notes that can be heard.

Originally Posted by ivansc

Maybe us old MIDI campaigners just grew up with so much less we dont mind a little grunt work.

Heh heh, yeah back in the days, there were no keyswitches. All we had were outboard synths and various sampler keyboards.

[juliansader]

Originally Posted by Tod

Hi julian, the biggest problem for me is, there is a minimum distance that the keyswitchs need to be placed in order for them to work. When you've got 2, 3, even 4 notes that all need different keyswitches, it takes a bit to get them right, and still have no noticeable separation of the notes that can be heard.

For these cases (multiple notes starting at the same time, using different articulations), I would suggest using multiple channels.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by juliansader

For these cases (multiple notes starting at the same time, using different articulations), I would suggest using multiple channels.

Thanks for the suggestion juliansader, but there's no way I can use different channels for the instruments where I have 4, even 5 keyswitches.

I don't really mind that much, and I'm just thankful I can do what I can do with those keyswitches.

[Dex]

Originally Posted by ivansc

Pretty easy to adjust your workflow to allow for this, actually. One extra toolbar click per switch to shift your position isn`t much to actually solve your problem, is it?

Maybe us old MIDI campaigners just grew up with so much less we dont mind a little grunt work.

Which toolbar click would that be? I'm still new at this so I don't know everything. Right now I'm creating the note then clicking on it and shift-dragging it slightly to the left, but not so far that it comes before another important note. I'd rather not have to do surgical mouse movements to sequence each keyswitch so if there's an easy way to "bump" a note to be ever-so-slightly earlier let me know!

By the way, at this point I have about a dozen instruments with keyswitches and they're all either on the left side or the right side of the keyboard. Almost all of them are on the left, so a simple toggle (send same-time notes from highest pitch to lowest pitch or vice versa, or heck you could also do send same-time notes from highest velocity to lowest velocity or vice-versa) would be super welcome. I do notice that there is a "CC selection follows note selection" option, and what I'm asking/hoping for here is along those same lines.

[juliansader]

The action "Edit: Move event left/right (mousewheel/MIDI relative only)" is useful for making small adjustments to selected events. Assign it to a mousewheel shortcut, such as alt+mousewheel.

To further lower the number of clicks, you can select all keyswitch notes by right-dragging the keyswitch range on the piano roll's keyboard, and then moving them all together.

But warning: sequencing music in a DAW is all about surgical editing of MIDI!

If you want to avoid keyswitch notes altogether, perhaps try the Rearticulate articulation manager.