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Old 01-22-2023, 07:33 AM   #21961
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
No special steps to reproduce. This started happening with the build of yesterday at 2:46am (one before the most recent) Rolling back to the build of yesterday at 12:15am (the one before the 2:46am) aliases are back.

Maybe try removing FXParamAliasesCache.txt (it stores plugin name aliases as well, right?) and see if you get the same thing.
Those are param aliases only, not plugin aliases.

Check the auto generated files, do they have Zone aliases ?

Here's an auto generated one from my system:

Code:
Zone "VST: UAD Fairchild 660 (Universal Audio, Inc.)" "Fairchild 660"
	OnZoneActivation SetXTouchDisplayColors Cyan
	OnZoneDeactivation RestoreXTouchDisplayColors

	MCUTemplate Rotary "" 1 FXParam 0 "Meter"
	MCUTemplate Rotary "" 2 FXParam 1 "Input"
	MCUTemplate Rotary "" 3 FXParam 2 "Thresh"
	MCUTemplate Rotary "" 4 FXParam 3 "Time Const"
	MCUTemplate Rotary "" 5 FXParam 4 "SC Filt"
	MCUTemplate Rotary "" 6 FXParam 5 "Bal"
	MCUTemplate Rotary "" 7 FXParam 6 "DC Thr"
	MCUTemplate Rotary "" 8 FXParam 7 "Output"
	MCUTemplate+Shift Rotary "" 1 FXParam 8 "Mix"
	MCUTemplate+Shift Rotary "" 2 FXParam 9 "Headroom"
	MCUTemplate+Shift Rotary "" 3 FXParam 10 "Power"
	MCUTemplate+Shift Rotary "" 4 FXParam 11 "Bypass"
	MCUTemplate+Shift Rotary "" 5 FXParam 12 "Wet"
	MCUTemplate+Shift Rotary "" 6 FXParam 13 "Delta"
	MCUTemplate+Shift Rotary "" 7 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Shift Rotary "" 8 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "" 1 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "" 2 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "" 3 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "" 4 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "" 5 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "" 6 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "" 7 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "" 8 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Control Rotary "" 1 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Control Rotary "" 2 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Control Rotary "" 3 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Control Rotary "" 4 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Control Rotary "" 5 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Control Rotary "" 6 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Control Rotary "" 7 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Control Rotary "" 8 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Alt Rotary "" 1 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Alt Rotary "" 2 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Alt Rotary "" 3 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Alt Rotary "" 4 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Alt Rotary "" 5 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Alt Rotary "" 6 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Alt Rotary "" 7 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Alt Rotary "" 8 FXParam -1 ""
ZoneEnd

/ 0 "Meter"
/ 1 "Input"
/ 2 "Thresh"
/ 3 "Time Const"
/ 4 "SC Filt"
/ 5 "Bal"
/ 6 "DC Thr"
/ 7 "Output"
/ 8 "Mix"
/ 9 "Headroom"
/ 10 "Power"
/ 11 "Bypass"
/ 12 "Wet"
/ 13 "Delta"
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Old 01-22-2023, 07:57 AM   #21962
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Those are param aliases only, not plugin aliases.

Check the auto generated files, do they have Zone aliases ?
Initially, they do. But if I edit the alias (say shorten "Kotelnikov" to "Kotel" and refresh CSI, it reverts to "NoMap" (the map is still there)

Have to go out now but will be back on the case later
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Old 01-22-2023, 08:07 AM   #21963
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Initially, they do. But if I edit the alias (say shorten "Kotelnikov" to "Kotel" and refresh CSI, it reverts to "NoMap" (the map is still there)

Have to go out now but will be back on the case later
I just did that and it worked fine.
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Old 01-22-2023, 08:25 AM   #21964
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Yeah, not seeing any of that behavior here. Aliases are showing both for Classic FX Zones and AutoFXZones in the FXMenu and elsewhere.

MM, I'm sure you're probably already doing this but do you have the FX zone folder as a standalone subfolder under the CSI\Zones folder? In my case, CSI\Zones\FXTwisterFXZones\ which in the CSI.ini is just FXTwisterFXZones. I then went in and deleted the FX zones from the prior folders.

Also, do you have the new FXTemplates.zon setup with the syntax changes to add the channel counts?
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Old 01-22-2023, 08:42 AM   #21965
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Just out of curiosity, because I'm limited here to surfaces I have and I MM said something recently that made me go "hmmm" but I didn't want to derail things at the time...

If you map a plugin with stepped params on an MCU/C4/XTouch and don't have the stepped params defined...does turning the encoder still go from param step to param step? On the Twister, at least with some plugins, if I hit a stepped param I don't have ZoneStepSizes for and turn the encoder, nothing happens. It's just a dead parameter until I map out the step sizes. It sounded like they still work on MCU-style surfaces just with a very clumsy response. Whereas on the MFTwister, nothing happens at all so it's a total workflow killer.

Just want to be sure that others have the same experience. A great example of this is the UAD Waterfall B3. The drawbars don't move at all using an auto-map because that plugin doesn't exist in the ZoneStep files.
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Old 01-22-2023, 09:36 AM   #21966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
Just out of curiosity, because I'm limited here to surfaces I have and I MM said something recently that made me go "hmmm" but I didn't want to derail things at the time...

If you map a plugin with stepped params on an MCU/C4/XTouch and don't have the stepped params defined...does turning the encoder still go from param step to param step? On the Twister, at least with some plugins, if I hit a stepped param I don't have ZoneStepSizes for and turn the encoder, nothing happens. It's just a dead parameter until I map out the step sizes. It sounded like they still work on MCU-style surfaces just with a very clumsy response. Whereas on the MFTwister, nothing happens at all so it's a total workflow killer.

Just want to be sure that others have the same experience. A great example of this is the UAD Waterfall B3. The drawbars don't move at all using an auto-map because that plugin doesn't exist in the ZoneStep files.
Just tried this with the Waterfall, that is one weird MIDI beast !

I use the Roland/Cakewalk A800 Faders to control the drawbars, all good, I was even able to map them in reverse with the A800 software, so they behave like a Hammond !

But, as far as with my X-Touch, ugghhh.

Turn on CSI output monitoring and you will see SysEx as well as regular MIDI messages sent along with every drawbar change, very strange.

For any plugins that are misbehaving, maybe turn on in/out monitoring and see what you discover

I wonder if we are getting crossed up by the fact that it is also a MIDI device.
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Old 01-22-2023, 09:50 AM   #21967
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I've run into that with other plugins with stepped parameters too, but I knew that you'd have that one. Will start making note and checking others.

A few years back I picked up a B4D controller made by Bohm for Native Instruments. Great for Hammond stuff. Also a very weird MIDI implementation. I ended up mapping it all out a few years back so the guys from AcousticSamples could include a mapping for it with their B5 plugin. I remember there being some really weird stuff in the implementation. And apparently, a lot of these organ controllers have similarly odd mappings.

Great little box. It's a shame I can't play keyboards worth a damn.

The B4D looks like this (only mentioning this because I know you played hammonds):
https://reverb.com/item/11013532-nat...ontroller-rare

Also note, while the UA Waterfall is really nice, I still much prefer the Acoustic Samples B5 that runs on the free UVI Workstation. It's a combination of samples and modeling, has a great sounding Leslie. Just sounds incredible and very tweakable. You may want to check it out.
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Old 01-22-2023, 10:41 AM   #21968
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Geoff, for auto-alias code, would you be able to add: CLAP and CLAPi format prefixes to remove those like you do for VST and VSTi?

For the format prefixes, I'd think you'd want to remove for completeness:

AU
AUi
VST
VSTi
VST3
VST3i
CLAP
CLAPi
JS
ReWire
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Old 01-22-2023, 10:41 AM   #21969
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When and Why have some of the widgets in the C4.mst been renamed???

Code:
Widget SZ1
	Press 90 0d 7f 90 0d 00
WidgetEnd

Widget SZ2
	Press 90 0e 7f 90 0e 00
WidgetEnd

Widget SZ3
	Press 90 0f 7f 90 0f 00
WidgetEnd

Widget SZ4
	Press 90 10 7f 90 10 00
WidgetEnd

original code
Code:
Widget Shift
	Press 90 0d 7f 90 0d 00
WidgetEnd

Widget Option
	Press 90 0e 7f 90 0e 00
WidgetEnd

Widget Control
	Press 90 0f 7f 90 0f 00
WidgetEnd

Widget Alt
	Press 90 10 7f 90 10 00
WidgetEnd

I don't usually copy them over but was being lazy and then everything stopped working properly in my FX Zones.
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Old 01-22-2023, 10:47 AM   #21970
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
Geoff, for auto-alias code, would you be able to add: CLAP and CLAPi format prefixes to remove those like you do for VST and VSTi?

For the format prefixes, I'd think you'd want to remove for completeness:

AU
AUi
VST
VSTi
VST3
VST3i
CLAP
CLAPi
JS
ReWire
Added, will be in next build.
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Old 01-22-2023, 10:54 AM   #21971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freex View Post
When and Why have some of the widgets in the C4.mst been renamed???

Code:
Widget SZ1
	Press 90 0d 7f 90 0d 00
WidgetEnd

Widget SZ2
	Press 90 0e 7f 90 0e 00
WidgetEnd

Widget SZ3
	Press 90 0f 7f 90 0f 00
WidgetEnd

Widget SZ4
	Press 90 10 7f 90 10 00
WidgetEnd

original code
Code:
Widget Shift
	Press 90 0d 7f 90 0d 00
WidgetEnd

Widget Option
	Press 90 0e 7f 90 0e 00
WidgetEnd

Widget Control
	Press 90 0f 7f 90 0f 00
WidgetEnd

Widget Alt
	Press 90 10 7f 90 10 00
WidgetEnd

I don't usually copy them over but was being lazy and then everything stopped working properly in my FX Zones.
That's from Mixmonkey's C4.mst to work around the old GoSubZone crashes. Is that in the latest Support Files? I thought that than had been corrected. It had snuck in by mistake.
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Old 01-22-2023, 10:55 AM   #21972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Added, will be in next build.
Excellent. Thanks!
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Old 01-22-2023, 10:57 AM   #21973
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
I've run into that with other plugins with stepped parameters too, but I knew that you'd have that one. Will start making note and checking others.

A few years back I picked up a B4D controller made by Bohm for Native Instruments. Great for Hammond stuff. Also a very weird MIDI implementation. I ended up mapping it all out a few years back so the guys from AcousticSamples could include a mapping for it with their B5 plugin. I remember there being some really weird stuff in the implementation. And apparently, a lot of these organ controllers have similarly odd mappings.

Great little box. It's a shame I can't play keyboards worth a damn.

The B4D looks like this (only mentioning this because I know you played hammonds):
https://reverb.com/item/11013532-nat...ontroller-rare

Also note, while the UA Waterfall is really nice, I still much prefer the Acoustic Samples B5 that runs on the free UVI Workstation. It's a combination of samples and modeling, has a great sounding Leslie. Just sounds incredible and very tweakable. You may want to check it out.
I can't really play the Hammond, more like drive it, you know, pick a chord, hold it, move some drawbars, change the vibrato, shift the Leslie

I remember the B4D controller, nice, but pricey.

Thanks for the B5 tip, I really like the Hammond sound of the Waterfall, particularly the overdrive, it reminds me the most of how a real Hammond rig overdrives, and don't really care about the Leslie sound, because, well...

Attached Images
File Type: jpg Leslie.jpg (31.5 KB, 272 views)
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Old 01-22-2023, 10:59 AM   #21974
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Found a bug with AutoFX generation.

You can see I have Shift Rotary B defined in the FXTemplates.zon below...
Code:
Zone "FXTemplates"
	MCUTemplate                    Rotary A 8
	MCUTemplate                    Rotary B 8
	MCUTemplate+Shift              Rotary A 8
	MCUTemplate+Shift              Rotary B 8
     MCUTemplate+Option             Rotary A 8
     MCUTemplate+Option             Rotary B 8
     MCUTemplate+Control            Rotary A 8
     MCUTemplate+Control            Rotary B 8
     MCUTemplate+Alt                Rotary A 8
     MCUTemplate+Alt                Rotary B 8
     MCUTemplate+Shift+Option       Rotary A 8
     MCUTemplate+Shift+Option       Rotary B 8
     MCUTemplate+Shift+Control      Rotary A 8
     MCUTemplate+Shift+Control      Rotary B 8
     MCUTemplate+Shift+Alt          Rotary A 8
     MCUTemplate+Shift+Alt          Rotary B 8
     MCUTemplate+Option+Control     Rotary A 8
     MCUTemplate+Option+Control     Rotary B 8
     MCUTemplate+Option+Alt         Rotary A 8
     MCUTemplate+Option+Alt         Rotary B 8
ZoneEnd
But Shift+Rotary B was skipped for some reason when the output was created. It should've been -1'd out right after the Delta param, but it was skipped.
Code:
Zone "CLAP: TAL DAC plugin (TAL-Togu Audio Line)" "CLAP: TAL DAC plugin"
	MainDisplay2   FXMenuNameDisplay

	MCUTemplate Rotary "A" 1 FXParam 0 "Volume"
	MCUTemplate Rotary "A" 2 FXParam 1 "Sample Rate"
	MCUTemplate Rotary "A" 3 FXParam 2 "Bit Scale"
	MCUTemplate Rotary "A" 4 FXParam 3 "Mu Law Enabled"
	MCUTemplate Rotary "A" 5 FXParam 4 "Mu Law Delta Mode"
	MCUTemplate Rotary "A" 6 FXParam 5 "Bits"
	MCUTemplate Rotary "A" 7 FXParam 6 "Bias"
	MCUTemplate Rotary "A" 8 FXParam 7 "Reconstruction Mode"
	MCUTemplate Rotary "B" 1 FXParam 8 "Reconstruction Filter 1"
	MCUTemplate Rotary "B" 2 FXParam 9 "Reconstruction Filter 2"
	MCUTemplate Rotary "B" 3 FXParam 10 "Jitter"
	MCUTemplate Rotary "B" 4 FXParam 11 "Hiss"
	MCUTemplate Rotary "B" 5 FXParam 12 "Low"
	MCUTemplate Rotary "B" 6 FXParam 13 "Drive"
	MCUTemplate Rotary "B" 7 FXParam 14 "Input Drive"
	MCUTemplate Rotary "B" 8 FXParam 15 "Dry / Wet"
	MCUTemplate+Shift Rotary "A" 1 FXParam 16 "EQ On"
	MCUTemplate+Shift Rotary "A" 2 FXParam 17 "Stereo Jitter"
	MCUTemplate+Shift Rotary "A" 3 FXParam 18 "ADC Quality"
	MCUTemplate+Shift Rotary "A" 4 FXParam 19 "Oversampling Enabled"
	MCUTemplate+Shift Rotary "A" 5 FXParam 20 "Dither Enabled"
	MCUTemplate+Shift Rotary "A" 6 FXParam 21 "Bypass"
	MCUTemplate+Shift Rotary "A" 7 FXParam 22 "Wet"
	MCUTemplate+Shift Rotary "A" 8 FXParam 23 "Delta"
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "A" 1 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "A" 2 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "A" 3 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "A" 4 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "A" 5 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "A" 6 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "A" 7 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "A" 8 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "B" 1 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "B" 2 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "B" 3 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "B" 4 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "B" 5 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "B" 6 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "B" 7 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "B" 8 FXParam -1 ""
....
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Old 01-22-2023, 11:00 AM   #21975
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New build is up.

CSI Support Files.zip

Fix for C4 modifiers.

Thanks Freex.
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Old 01-22-2023, 11:05 AM   #21976
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
Found a bug with AutoFX generation.

You can see I have Shift Rotary B defined in the FXTemplates.zon below...
Code:
Zone "FXTemplates"
	MCUTemplate                    Rotary A 8
	MCUTemplate                    Rotary B 8
	MCUTemplate+Shift              Rotary A 8
	MCUTemplate+Shift              Rotary B 8
     MCUTemplate+Option             Rotary A 8
     MCUTemplate+Option             Rotary B 8
     MCUTemplate+Control            Rotary A 8
     MCUTemplate+Control            Rotary B 8
     MCUTemplate+Alt                Rotary A 8
     MCUTemplate+Alt                Rotary B 8
     MCUTemplate+Shift+Option       Rotary A 8
     MCUTemplate+Shift+Option       Rotary B 8
     MCUTemplate+Shift+Control      Rotary A 8
     MCUTemplate+Shift+Control      Rotary B 8
     MCUTemplate+Shift+Alt          Rotary A 8
     MCUTemplate+Shift+Alt          Rotary B 8
     MCUTemplate+Option+Control     Rotary A 8
     MCUTemplate+Option+Control     Rotary B 8
     MCUTemplate+Option+Alt         Rotary A 8
     MCUTemplate+Option+Alt         Rotary B 8
ZoneEnd
But Shift+Rotary B was skipped for some reason when the output was created. It should've been -1'd out right after the Delta param, but it was skipped.
Code:
Zone "CLAP: TAL DAC plugin (TAL-Togu Audio Line)" "CLAP: TAL DAC plugin"
	MainDisplay2   FXMenuNameDisplay

	MCUTemplate Rotary "A" 1 FXParam 0 "Volume"
	MCUTemplate Rotary "A" 2 FXParam 1 "Sample Rate"
	MCUTemplate Rotary "A" 3 FXParam 2 "Bit Scale"
	MCUTemplate Rotary "A" 4 FXParam 3 "Mu Law Enabled"
	MCUTemplate Rotary "A" 5 FXParam 4 "Mu Law Delta Mode"
	MCUTemplate Rotary "A" 6 FXParam 5 "Bits"
	MCUTemplate Rotary "A" 7 FXParam 6 "Bias"
	MCUTemplate Rotary "A" 8 FXParam 7 "Reconstruction Mode"
	MCUTemplate Rotary "B" 1 FXParam 8 "Reconstruction Filter 1"
	MCUTemplate Rotary "B" 2 FXParam 9 "Reconstruction Filter 2"
	MCUTemplate Rotary "B" 3 FXParam 10 "Jitter"
	MCUTemplate Rotary "B" 4 FXParam 11 "Hiss"
	MCUTemplate Rotary "B" 5 FXParam 12 "Low"
	MCUTemplate Rotary "B" 6 FXParam 13 "Drive"
	MCUTemplate Rotary "B" 7 FXParam 14 "Input Drive"
	MCUTemplate Rotary "B" 8 FXParam 15 "Dry / Wet"
	MCUTemplate+Shift Rotary "A" 1 FXParam 16 "EQ On"
	MCUTemplate+Shift Rotary "A" 2 FXParam 17 "Stereo Jitter"
	MCUTemplate+Shift Rotary "A" 3 FXParam 18 "ADC Quality"
	MCUTemplate+Shift Rotary "A" 4 FXParam 19 "Oversampling Enabled"
	MCUTemplate+Shift Rotary "A" 5 FXParam 20 "Dither Enabled"
	MCUTemplate+Shift Rotary "A" 6 FXParam 21 "Bypass"
	MCUTemplate+Shift Rotary "A" 7 FXParam 22 "Wet"
	MCUTemplate+Shift Rotary "A" 8 FXParam 23 "Delta"
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "A" 1 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "A" 2 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "A" 3 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "A" 4 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "A" 5 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "A" 6 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "A" 7 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "A" 8 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "B" 1 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "B" 2 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "B" 3 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "B" 4 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "B" 5 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "B" 6 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "B" 7 FXParam -1 ""
	MCUTemplate+Option Rotary "B" 8 FXParam -1 ""
....
Thanks, I can see what's going on there, it just happens to be exactly 24 parameters, so it jumps over the next one before padding, will fix.
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Old 01-22-2023, 11:22 AM   #21977
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New build is up.

CSI Exp.zip

Added some prefixes and possible bug fix for auto Zone generation.

FB, please check and see if this fixes your issue.
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Old 01-22-2023, 11:28 AM   #21978
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
New build is up.

CSI Exp.zip

Added some prefixes and possible bug fix for auto Zone generation.

FB, please check and see if this fixes your issue.
It did indeed. CLAP prefix is gone. Shift+RotaryB was blanked out now on the same plugin where it was skipped earlier.

Thanks!
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Old 01-22-2023, 11:42 AM   #21979
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Ok, just wanted to follow up on the Stepped Params not moving with encoders thing. It seems like it may be related to VST2 plugins (or the format itself).

Three plugins where the stepped params on VST2 versions don't move at all when mapped to an encoder:
Code:
Acon Digital Verberate 2
D16 Antresol
Audiority Space Station UM282
Checking the VST3 versions, all "just work".

Unless this is a bug in CSI, which I doubt, I think the takeaway is that for Auto FX Mapping, you're better off using VST3 versions versus VST2.

This may be a rare instance where using VST3 is preferable where available.

In fact, in the case of the Audiority Space Station clone (killer plugin, I used an Ursa Major Space Station in the studio and this nails it), the CLAP version behaves like the VST2. So VST3 beats out CLAP and VST2 in that instance.
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Old 01-22-2023, 11:55 AM   #21980
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Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
Ok, just wanted to follow up on the Stepped Params not moving with encoders thing. It seems like it may be related to VST2 plugins (or the format itself).

Three plugins where the stepped params on VST2 versions don't move at all when mapped to an encoder:
Code:
Acon Digital Verberate 2
D16 Antresol
Audiority Space Station UM282
Checking the VST3 versions, all "just work".

Unless this is a bug in CSI, which I doubt, I think the takeaway is that for Auto FX Mapping, you're better off using VST3 versions versus VST2.

This may be a rare instance where using VST3 is preferable where available.

In fact, in the case of the Audiority Space Station clone (killer plugin, I used an Ursa Major Space Station in the studio and this nails it), the CLAP version behaves like the VST2. So VST3 beats out CLAP and VST2 in that instance.
Ain't that VST "standard" marvellous
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Old 01-22-2023, 12:04 PM   #21981
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Ok, about to tackle revamping the config panels.

For Page we need to add:
Follow MCP/TCP
Synch Banking with other Pages
Use Scroll Link

For Surfaces we need to add:
Use local modifiers
Dropdown for FXFolder -- will default to Folder, override if desired

Anything else ?

Any suggested improvements ?
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Old 01-22-2023, 12:10 PM   #21982
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Ok, about to tackle revamping the config panels.

For Page we need to add:
Follow MCP/TCP
Synch Banking with other Pages
Use Scroll Link

For Surfaces we need to add:
Use local modifiers
Dropdown for FXFolder -- will default to Folder, override if desired

Anything else ?

Any suggested improvements ?
That's everything I'm aware of (based no the CSI.ini).

In terms of maybe a new feature or a tweak to an existing one: is there any way to have two-way Scroll Link? Where selecting a track in Reaper could also bank the surface to reveal the track on the surface if not shown? I've seen a few people get thrown off by that and request it.
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Old 01-22-2023, 12:19 PM   #21983
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Ain't that VST "standard" marvellous
I'm surprised VST3 handles it better actually. But hey, broken clocks and all...

I'll ask around about CLAP though. It's a new format still in active development. It's possible these plugins are built with the CLAP extension for JUCE and maybe that's not working as expected. Or the issue could be with Reaper's handling of stepped CLAP parameters (maybe an extension is missing from Reaper's implementaiton). Or maybe the format itself just didn't account for this and may need some updates in that area.

I'm not sure if you've been following anything about CLAP development, but it's a developer-friendly alternative to the stranglehold Steinberg and other DAW makers (Apple, Avid) have over plugin formats. Adoption has been pretty darn impressive considering how new it all is, but a big part of that is the developer-friendly part and people just being fed up with Steinberg's licensing. Big names, including Avid and Presonus are taking a close look at CLAP and I really think it's going to mostly replace VST/VST3/AU/AAX in a few years as the dominant standard just because plugin developers won't want to be beholden to Steinberg, Apple or Avid. Plus, developing CLAP plugins allows one to still create VST, VST3, AU, etc. And it offers some cool, unique features that other plugin formats don't have, including polyphonic parameter modulation and thread scheduling for better CPU use in CLAP DAWs.

Mor info here:
https://cleveraudio.org/news/

List of compatible plugins here:
https://clapdb.tech/

But I digress...
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Old 01-22-2023, 01:25 PM   #21984
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Just came across this controller for the first time:

https://electra.one/

Looks like it could be another option for those looking for a C4/SCE24 alternative for plugin (or even hardware control) with a software editor.

Two off-topic posts in a row. I'll stop now.
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Old 01-22-2023, 01:53 PM   #21985
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Anything else ?

Any suggested improvements ?
Reverse or flip of polarity, or invert the output for A knob(s) at zone level.

For those weird amp/cab plugins that I seem to keep finding, in which "turning clockwise means move left and vice versa.

But I'm sure it would have other use cases.

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Old 01-22-2023, 04:22 PM   #21986
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Default CSI Change Log

I know things have been moving at what seems an exponential rate with changes and fixes. Is the change log on the GitHub going to be updated at some point soon or is this waiting till v2.0 is firmed up and goes Live as they say? Just curious and too lazy to read back 16 or so pages of the changes on this forum.

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Old 01-22-2023, 04:34 PM   #21987
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I know things have been moving at what seems an exponential rate with changes and fixes. Is the change log on the GitHub going to be updated at some point soon or is this waiting till v2.0 is firmed up and goes Live as they say? Just curious and too lazy to read back 16 or so pages of the changes on this forum.

Jd
The Change Log will get updated but I've been intentionally holding off on making updates about the recent EXP changes because literally so much has changed just since Friday night, let alone the last two weeks! That said, it does seem like Geoff has settled on a design that works really well and I think is going to resemble final. That happened just yesterday though!
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Old 01-22-2023, 04:45 PM   #21988
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I think the big highlights are:

1. There is a new SelectedTrackTCPFX zone type. Create one of these, and any TCP FX on the selected track in Reaper can be controlled automatically. This means you can create a variable plugin map that can even control multiple params at once. You just do it all in Reaper.

2. You can alias parameters by using the "Alias" feature in Reaper on the SelectedTrackTCPFX. These Aliases get written to a file so they can be picked up downstream as well.

3. There's a new "FXTemplates" zone type that can be used for created MCU, Xtouch, C4 style FX.zons with displays. There's also a corresponding FX Preamble and FX Epilogue zones to add text to the top or bottom of your new FX.zons.

When you have an FXTemplates.zon working, that allows for...

4. AUTO-FX MAPPING! Yep, just load up an FX, and CSI will have created a map for it. Not only that, you can go in later and edit those maps. Auto FX Mapping works with both the FXMenu and FocusedFX. It's on by default but can be toggled off.

5. You can now create an "FX Zone Folder" that can be shared by multiple surfaces by pointing each to that folder. This is very handy if you use multiple pages in CSI.

6. The Zone Step Size folder is gone. There's now a ZoneStepSize file for all plugins. There are already over 1,000 plugins in that file. Right now, you'd have to add to that file manually.

...the details are in the CSI Support Files and the last 2 pages or so of this thread.
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Old 01-22-2023, 05:34 PM   #21989
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All control surface software I know of do a reasonable job of the "usual suspects" -- Track, Sends, Receives, VCA, Folders, Groups, etc.

It's pretty well baked into the surface hardware designs, so it naturally follows.

Where they all fall down, CSI included, is FX definition -- we could say plugins, but FX is faster to type, so I'm going with FX for this discussion.

I said a page or so back I hadn't thought through FB's MFT/iPad use case thoroughly enough.

Just had an Aha moment.

Aha moments are almost always not really so much Aha as natural flow from previous ideas.

Here are the previous ideas that drove this one:
1)Folks have asked for the ability of CSI to support FX definitions that span surfaces
2)FB has a need for a particular sub use case of the above -- MFT/iPad
3)MM just asked for the ability to separate the FXTemplate sizes from the Surface Channel count
4)We just added FX folder sharing amongst Surfaces

All of this leads to...

Our FX->Surface metaphor is completely wrong.

FB just tried to use ToggleChannel across Surfaces and it failed.

The actual failure was not the ToggleChannel, but rather, the concept of Toggling a Channel for an FX.

What we really need is Toggle a parameter

In other words, FX Zones should use a completely different definition syntax.

This is very preliminary, but imagine a syntax that allowed an FX Zone to naturally span surfaces.

Here's a lame depiction to get things started:

Code:
FXZone "Some FX"
    "MFT"  Rotary1 FXParam 3
    "iPad" Display4 FixedTextDisplay "Param3Name"
    "iPad" Display6 FXParamValueDisplay 3

    "MFT"  ToggleFXParam+Rotary1 FXParam 5
    "iPad" ToggleFXParam+Display4 FixedTextDisplay "Param5Name"
    "iPad" ToggleFXParam+Display6 FXParamValueDisplay 5
ZoneEnd
Super lame, but you get the idea, it's much more parameter focused, I think it's got merit...
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Old 01-22-2023, 05:40 PM   #21990
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Oh sh*t, you just blew my mind! First thoughts are that less portable, but way more powerful. Particularly for the "other surface is doing displays" crowd like me. If that could be templated, that would be great.

Also would that allow users to do assignments across surfaces? Like first 8 FXParams on these Rotaries, next 8 on the Extender rotaries, etc.? Just trying to think of possibilities.
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Old 01-22-2023, 06:00 PM   #21991
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Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
The Change Log will get updated but I've been intentionally holding off on making updates about the recent EXP changes because literally so much has changed just since Friday night, let alone the last two weeks! That said, it does seem like Geoff has settled on a design that works really well and I think is going to resemble final. That happened just yesterday though!
Thanks FB, I understand it's hard to keep up.

Jd
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Old 01-22-2023, 06:15 PM   #21992
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I think the big highlights are:

6. The Zone Step Size folder is gone. There's now a ZoneStepSize file for all plugins. There are already over 1,000 plugins in that file. Right now, you'd have to add to that file manually.
From what I remember reading in these posts, the file "FXParamStepValuesCache.txt" is used if you don't have a created .zon. If I've created one (old school style) this should override the "FXParamStepValuesCache.txt" step sizes, correct?

I've had to go into that text file and delete one line of the "VST3: bx_console Focusrite SC (Plugin Alliance)" as it was causing a problem with my old school created ".zon".

Just an FYI if anyone else might have a issue like this, it's how I got it to work.

Jd
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Old 01-22-2023, 06:18 PM   #21993
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Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
Oh sh*t, you just blew my mind! First thoughts are that less portable, but way more powerful. Particularly for the "other surface is doing displays" crowd like me. If that could be templated, that would be great.

Also would that allow users to do assignments across surfaces? Like first 8 FXParams on these Rotaries, next 8 on the Extender rotaries, etc.? Just trying to think of possibilities.
Right now MCUTemplate is hard wired.

Code:
    MCUTemplate Rotary "A" 2 FXParam 1 "Bass"
expands to this:

Code:
    DisplayUpperA2 FixedTextDisplay "Bass"
    DisplayLowerA2 FXParamValueDisplay 1
    RotaryA2       FXParam 1
    RotaryPushA2   ToggleChannel
Imagine if we could allow for Templates to be user defined:

Code:
Template MCUTemplate
    DisplayUpper FixedTextDisplay 
    DisplayLower FXParamValueDisplay
    Rotary       FXParam 
    RotaryPush   ToggleChannel
EndTemplate
It leads directly to this:

Code:
Template SpanSurfaceTemplate
    "MFT"  Rotary FXParam 
    "iPad" Display FixedTextDisplay
    "iPad" Display FXParamValueDisplay
EndTemplate
Then you could say:

Code:
    SpanSurfaceTemplate Rotary "A" 2 FXParam 1 "Bass"
The concept is too loose right now, but you get the idea.

CSI always tried to chase the elusive goal of making things portable, in order to cut down on the work folks had to do.

Turns out that was folly.

Much better to allow for a few "macro definition" type "rules" and let auto map do all of the grunt work.

Let's say you just changed your whole setup.

You would have to manually redo your Tracks, Sends, etc. Zones, not that big a deal.

But oh, those FX !

This way you just define a few Templates, erase all of your old FX, and let auto map take care of things

I'm sure it's not quite that easy, but I think it's feasible to get close to that easy.
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Old 01-22-2023, 06:24 PM   #21994
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Originally Posted by jakeman19 View Post
From what I remember reading in these posts, the file "FXParamStepValuesCache.txt" is used if you don't have a created .zon. If I've created one (old school style) this should override the "FXParamStepValuesCache.txt" step sizes, correct?

I've had to go into that text file and delete one line of the "VST3: bx_console Focusrite SC (Plugin Alliance)" as it was causing a problem with my old school created ".zon".

Just an FYI if anyone else might have a issue like this, it's how I got it to work.

Jd
If you have step sizes defined "old school" CSI should respect that and use those instead of the ones from FXParamStepValuesCache.txt.

If you have an "old school" Zone with no step sizes, CSI will use the ones from FXParamStepValuesCache.txt.
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Old 01-22-2023, 06:48 PM   #21995
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I friggin' LOVE the idea of users being able to design their own Templates for FX Zones. That way it could be completely flexible.

Just thinking out loud here, but something like this would be cool and eliminates the need for preamble and epilogue zones. The idea being that CSI would create widget indexes (maybe based on channel count or we define that somewhere), then just assign the AutoFXParams in order based on the index # from the template zone.

Code:
Zone "SampleMultiSurfaceTemplate"

/ Cell BankA
"iPad"                  DisplayUpperA|                AutoFXParamNameDisplay | 
"iPad"                  DisplayLowerA|                AutoFXParamValueDisplay |
"iPad"                  RotaryA|                      AutoFXParam |
"MFTwister"             RotaryA|                      AutoFXParam |
"iPad"                  DisplayRotaryPushA|           NoAction 
"MFTwister"             RotaryPushA|                  NoAction 
"iPad"                  DisplayUpperShiftA|           NoAction
"iPad"                  DisplayLowerShiftA|           NoAction
"MFTwister"             ShiftRotaryA|                 NoAction
									         
/ Cell BankB                                         
"iPad"                  DisplayUpperB|                AutoFXParamNameDisplay | 
"iPad"                  DisplayLowerB|                AutoFXParamValueDisplay |
"iPad"                  RotaryB|                      AutoFXParam |
"MFTwister"             RotaryB|                      AutoFXParam |
"iPad"                  DisplayRotaryPushB|           NoAction 
"MFTwister"             RotaryPushB|                  NoAction 
"iPad"                  DisplayUpperShiftB|           NoAction
"iPad"                  DisplayLowerShiftB|           NoAction
"MFTwister"             ShiftRotaryB|                 NoAction
 
/ Cell Shfit+BankA
"iPad"                  Shift+DisplayUpperA|          AutoFXParamNameDisplay | 
"iPad"                  Shift+DisplayLowerA|          AutoFXParamValueDisplay |
"iPad"                  Shift+RotaryA|                AutoFXParam |
"MFTwister"             Shift+RotaryA|                AutoFXParam |
"iPad"                  Shift+DisplayRotaryPushA|     NoAction 
"MFTwister"             Shift+RotaryPushA|            NoAction 
"iPad"                  Shift+DisplayUpperShiftA|     NoAction
"iPad"                  Shift+DisplayLowerShiftA|     NoAction
"MFTwister"             Shift+ShiftRotaryA|           NoAction

/ Cell Shift+BankB
"iPad"                  Shift+DisplayUpperB|          AutoFXParamNameDisplay | 
"iPad"                  Shift+DisplayLowerB|          AutoFXParamValueDisplay |
"iPad"                  Shift+RotaryB|                AutoFXParam |
"MFTwister"             Shift+RotaryB|                AutoFXParam |
"iPad"                  Shift+DisplayRotaryPushB|     NoAction 
"MFTwister"             Shift+RotaryPushB|            NoAction 
"iPad"                  Shift+DisplayUpperShiftB|     NoAction
"iPad"                  Shift+DisplayLowerShiftB|     NoAction
"MFTwister"             Shift+ShiftRotaryB|           NoAction
/
ZoneEnd
...notice I double-assigned Rotary to both surfaces. That would be cool. Right now you can do that sharing a zone file so I have the option of using the iPad when the Twister doesn't respond to stepped params for example.
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Old 01-23-2023, 12:09 AM   #21996
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
All control surface software I know of do a reasonable job of the "usual suspects" -- Track, Sends, Receives, VCA, Folders, Groups, etc.

It's pretty well baked into the surface hardware designs, so it naturally follows.

Where they all fall down, CSI included, is FX definition -- we could say plugins, but FX is faster to type, so I'm going with FX for this discussion.

I said a page or so back I hadn't thought through FB's MFT/iPad use case thoroughly enough.

Just had an Aha moment.

Aha moments are almost always not really so much Aha as natural flow from previous ideas.

Here are the previous ideas that drove this one:
1)Folks have asked for the ability of CSI to support FX definitions that span surfaces
2)FB has a need for a particular sub use case of the above -- MFT/iPad
3)MM just asked for the ability to separate the FXTemplate sizes from the Surface Channel count
4)We just added FX folder sharing amongst Surfaces

All of this leads to...

Our FX->Surface metaphor is completely wrong.

FB just tried to use ToggleChannel across Surfaces and it failed.

The actual failure was not the ToggleChannel, but rather, the concept of Toggling a Channel for an FX.

What we really need is Toggle a parameter

In other words, FX Zones should use a completely different definition syntax.

This is very preliminary, but imagine a syntax that allowed an FX Zone to naturally span surfaces.

Here's a lame depiction to get things started:

Code:
FXZone "Some FX"
    "MFT"  Rotary1 FXParam 3
    "iPad" Display4 FixedTextDisplay "Param3Name"
    "iPad" Display6 FXParamValueDisplay 3

    "MFT"  ToggleFXParam+Rotary1 FXParam 5
    "iPad" ToggleFXParam+Display4 FixedTextDisplay "Param5Name"
    "iPad" ToggleFXParam+Display6 FXParamValueDisplay 5
ZoneEnd
Super lame, but you get the idea, it's much more parameter focused, I think it's got merit...
+++
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Old 01-23-2023, 09:29 AM   #21997
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I seem to have got to the bottom of my missing aliases.

Turns out if you turn off AutoFXMapping (with ToggleAutoFXMapping, either OnInitialization or with a button) all your aliases disappear and are replaced with "NoMap"
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Old 01-23-2023, 09:35 AM   #21998
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Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
I seem to have got to the bottom of my missing aliases.

Turns out if you turn off AutoFXMapping (with ToggleAutoFXMapping, either OnInitialization or with a button) all your aliases disappear and are replaced with "NoMap"
What kind of lunatic would turn off automapping? jk

Nice catch!
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Old 01-23-2023, 09:38 AM   #21999
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What kind of lunatic would turn off automapping? jk
Precisely
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Old 01-23-2023, 11:01 AM   #22000
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Hello Guys, I just installed the new version of CSI 2.0 for X-Touch.
Is There any chance to map a FX parameter for a specific plugin in some unused menu of CSI?
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