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Old 07-30-2023, 10:07 AM   #23761
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Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Does it work if you revert to the files I posted?
Do you mean the ones from this post?https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...ostcount=23712
or the ones from this post? https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...ostcount=23729
I am using the ones from 23729.
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Old 07-30-2023, 10:53 AM   #23762
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Using the X-Touch Universal on Windows, I can definitely add to the Learn zone. But I periodically run into an issue where I need to refresh all surfaces to load the zone. It's inconsistent though. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I'm trying to figure out why without luck.
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Old 07-30-2023, 11:18 AM   #23763
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Geoff, think I narrowed it down. Think it's a bug.

1. First time I learn an FX zone, I don't need to refresh all surfaces for it to load in the FX menu.

2. Now if I reload that FX zone and keep learning, then Save, then try to load in the FX Menu, it does not. I need to refresh all surfaces.
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Old 07-30-2023, 11:21 AM   #23764
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Originally Posted by flipotto View Post
Do you mean the ones from this post?https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...ostcount=23712
or the ones from this post? https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...ostcount=23729
I am using the ones from 23729.
You’re using the correct set, but you’ve modified them haven’t you? Try the originals.
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Old 07-30-2023, 11:37 AM   #23765
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You’re using the correct set, but you’ve modified them haven’t you? Try the originals.
My only modification is the footswitch definitions, hmmm... and the fxlayouts for shift alt etc, in different order... ok, I will try originals, eliminate variables, makes sense.
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Old 07-30-2023, 12:40 PM   #23766
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Default Parameter list and changing FXLayout order

So I went back MM's original bcr stuff from post a few above, without my additions of shift, alt, opt, and control, the param list is again showing up at the bottom of the .zon file created after learn then save.

Parameter list was not showing up in the .zon file after learn then save when I had modified FXLayouts.zon
1. changed the order of the FXLayouts to BCDAPQR and
2. added in shift, alt opt and control.
I did not try them separately to see if param list showed up.

As for learn with revert back to MM's bcr. I see no change in behavior on my end. Learn once - save, then learn again - save > learned params are lost. I tried Refresh all surfaces between learns, no difference for me. I tried refresh all surfaces after, no difference.
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Old 07-30-2023, 01:29 PM   #23767
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You're not doing anything like opening the .zon files in a text editor, checking them out, then keeping that file open while you try to learn again right? In that case, I'd expect CSI would be unable to overwrite the fx.zon.
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Old 07-30-2023, 01:37 PM   #23768
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You're not doing anything like opening the .zon files in a text editor, checking them out, then keeping that file open while you try to learn again right? In that case, I'd expect CSI would be unable to overwrite the fx.zon.
Nope - not touching the file, except to delete it when I have to Learn again.
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Old 07-30-2023, 03:23 PM   #23769
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Originally Posted by flipotto View Post
So I went back MM's original bcr stuff from post a few above, without my additions of shift, alt, opt, and control, the param list is again showing up at the bottom of the .zon file created after learn then save.

Parameter list was not showing up in the .zon file after learn then save when I had modified FXLayouts.zon
1. changed the order of the FXLayouts to BCDAPQR and
2. added in shift, alt opt and control.
I did not try them separately to see if param list showed up.

As for learn with revert back to MM's bcr. I see no change in behavior on my end. Learn once - save, then learn again - save > learned params are lost. I tried Refresh all surfaces between learns, no difference for me. I tried refresh all surfaces after, no difference.
Zip up your CSI folder exactly as it is now and post it. I'll try it here and maybe we can establish if this is a Windows/Mac thing.
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Old 07-30-2023, 03:39 PM   #23770
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Ok here it is.
Attached Files
File Type: zip CSI.zip (505.3 KB, 60 views)
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Old 07-30-2023, 04:23 PM   #23771
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Ok here it is.
Change the pcOSC ports in TouchOSC and CSI prefs to 8003 and 9003 and try it again.
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Old 07-30-2023, 04:31 PM   #23772
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Change the pcOSC ports in TouchOSC and CSI prefs to 8003 and 9003 and try it again.
Wonderful, I feel silly that I didn't think of that... Sorry for the bother.
I will continue to test here, by mapping a large plugin.
Thanks again!
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Old 07-30-2023, 04:33 PM   #23773
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Originally Posted by flipotto View Post
Wonderful, I feel silly that I didn't think of that... Sorry for the bother.
Bleedin' edge, Dude, bleedin' edge

Who else is running multiple OSC devices c/w CSI Learn?
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Old 07-30-2023, 04:46 PM   #23774
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...oh, and delete that FXParamAliasesCache.txt file. It shouldn't reappear
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Old 07-31-2023, 02:13 AM   #23775
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Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
If you have a Widget mapped without a modifier, but not mapped when a modifier is used, the displays don't blank in the modified state. They still show the unmodified name.

Ideally, every Widget that is not mapped to a modifier should have its modified displays set to NoAction, so they blank when a modifier is pressed.

Obviously this problem solves itself when a Widget has both an un-modified and modified definition, the displays get overwritten by default.
The osc displays, if I learn D1, C1, D2, C2 unmodified, then "shift" learn D3, C3, I get unmodified shows all of those param labels and shift modified shows all those param labels, kind of confusing. I do notice that values go to zero if not mapped unmodified, same with modified. So even if I fill unmodified, if I can't fill modified those param labels from unmodified will display. Hmm, not sure how useful that will be. Might have to stick with ONLY unmodified for now.
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Old 07-31-2023, 02:20 AM   #23776
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Originally Posted by flipotto View Post
The osc displays, if I learn D1, C1, D2, C2 unmodified, then "shift" learn D3, C3, I get unmodified shows all of those param labels and shift modified shows all those param labels, kind of confusing. I do notice that values go to zero if not mapped unmodified, same with modified. So even if I fill unmodified, if I can't fill modified those param labels from unmodified will display. Hmm, not sure how useful that will be. Might have to stick with ONLY unmodified for now.
That's just a bug, will be fixed.
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Old 07-31-2023, 03:28 AM   #23777
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Cool!

Two plugins Learn on a track, odd behavior: ReaEQ 1st effect and ReaComp 2nd effect on a track using FXMenu select on PC touchosc.
Learn EQ (I must say using Learn is very cool and intuitive, well done!) Save, all good. Learn Comp save there, no prob.
Decide I want to Learn something else on EQ:
Code:
FXMenu select EQ 
press Learn
display shows me Comp mapping?
Not sure how to get back into Learn on EQ?
If I click on EQ to select it I am prompted with unsaved Learn FX params for Comp that have not been saved. That same dialog appears 3 times if I click Yes or No. Isn't once enough?
How to get back to learn on EQ zon?
Not sure if question makes sense. I can make a quick video if needed?
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Old 07-31-2023, 03:47 AM   #23778
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flipotto View Post
Cool!

Two plugins Learn on a track, odd behavior: ReaEQ 1st effect and ReaComp 2nd effect on a track using FXMenu select on PC touchosc.
Learn EQ (I must say using Learn is very cool and intuitive, well done!) Save, all good. Learn Comp save there, no prob.
Decide I want to Learn something else on EQ:
Code:
FXMenu select EQ 
press Learn
display shows me Comp mapping?
Not sure how to get back into Learn on EQ?
If I click on EQ to select it I am prompted with unsaved Learn FX params for Comp that have not been saved. That same dialog appears 3 times if I click Yes or No. Isn't once enough?
How to get back to learn on EQ zon?
Not sure if question makes sense. I can make a quick video if needed?
How many devices are you mapping simultaneously ?

It will tell you you have unsaved parameters for each device that is in Learn mode -- I admit this is a bit clunky, but that is how it works... for now
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Old 07-31-2023, 04:13 AM   #23779
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
How many devices are you mapping simultaneously ?

It will tell you you have unsaved parameters for each device that is in Learn mode -- I admit this is a bit clunky, but that is how it works... for now
I was only trying to map 1 at a time. I happen to have 2 fx on the track tho. I mapped a little eq to one zon, or so I thought, then mapped a little comp to another zon. I wanted to get back to little more learn mapping on eq. I'll do a quick video.
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Old 07-31-2023, 04:18 AM   #23780
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I was only trying to map 1 at a time. I happen to have 2 fx on the track tho. I mapped a little eq to one zon, or so I thought, then mapped a little comp to another zon. I wanted to get back to little more learn mapping on eq. I'll do a quick video.
Sorry, should have been more clear.

How many Surfaces are in Learn mode when you are mapping ?
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Old 07-31-2023, 04:40 AM   #23781
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Sorry, should have been more clear.

How many Surfaces are in Learn mode when you are mapping ?
Only PCosc. BCR is off nothing else.
Here is video - you really notice it when I add another effect
Skip to 2:09 - I should have edited. Sorry.
https://youtu.be/egRPMA-bAek
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Old 07-31-2023, 05:41 AM   #23782
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flipotto View Post
Cool!

Two plugins Learn on a track, odd behavior: ReaEQ 1st effect and ReaComp 2nd effect on a track using FXMenu select on PC touchosc.
Learn EQ (I must say using Learn is very cool and intuitive, well done!) Save, all good. Learn Comp save there, no prob.
Decide I want to Learn something else on EQ:
Code:
FXMenu select EQ 
press Learn
display shows me Comp mapping?
Not sure how to get back into Learn on EQ?
Make sure you TURN A CONTROL on the EQ BEFORE entering Learn mode. This is what selects the plugin for Learn, NOT CHOOSING IT FROM THE FXMENU! Capiche?
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Old 07-31-2023, 05:58 AM   #23783
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Make sure you TURN A CONTROL on the EQ BEFORE entering Learn mode. This is what selects the plugin for Learn, NOT CHOOSING IT FROM THE FXMENU! Capiche?
Outside of this specific discussion, MM's post has me thinking:

If ToggleAutoFocusedFXMapping is enabled, and you want to Learn, you'll need to enter Learn mode first. Otherwise, the act of just focusing the FX will create an auto-map, which isn't what you want if you're trying to learn.

If ToggleAutoFocusedFXMapping is disabled, then it doesn't matter. You can focus the plugin first and enter learn mode, or enter learn mode then focus the plugin.

Now that we have learn, should the default state for ToggleAutoFocusedFXMapping be off to allow more flexibility in how you enter Learn mode? Otherwise, I can be sure to document this dependency.
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Old 07-31-2023, 06:06 AM   #23784
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Now that we have learn, should the default state for ToggleAutoFocusedFXMapping be off to allow more flexibility in how you enter Learn mode? Otherwise, I can be sure to document this dependency.
Yes, absolutely! The toggle needs to be on a button with an LED indicator. Same for ToggleAutoFXMapping. I honestly see auto-map taking a back seat now that Learn is working.

You get to a useful FX map much faster with Learn than you do with auto-map, for the simple reason that you only Learn the controls that make sense to you. Auto-map throws everything on to the surface and leaves you with a huge mess to sort out in the edit window.
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Old 07-31-2023, 06:12 AM   #23785
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Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
Outside of this specific discussion, MM's post has me thinking:

If ToggleAutoFocusedFXMapping is enabled, and you want to Learn, you'll need to enter Learn mode first. Otherwise, the act of just focusing the FX will create an auto-map, which isn't what you want if you're trying to learn.

If ToggleAutoFocusedFXMapping is disabled, then it doesn't matter. You can focus the plugin first and enter learn mode, or enter learn mode then focus the plugin.

Now that we have learn, should the default state for ToggleAutoFocusedFXMapping be off to allow more flexibility in how you enter Learn mode? Otherwise, I can be sure to document this dependency.
Too busy with firmware at the moment to delve into the CSI code, but I think focusing the plugin will auto generate, even if you are in Learn mode -- another bug to correct

As well, there is a lot of nuance surrounding all of this, more refinement needed...
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Old 07-31-2023, 06:15 AM   #23786
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flipotto View Post
Only PCosc. BCR is off nothing else.
Here is video - you really notice it when I add another effect
Skip to 2:09 - I should have edited. Sorry.
https://youtu.be/egRPMA-bAek
Having the BCR off or on makes no differences, it's the presence of an Associated Zone named LearnFXParams for multiple Surfaces that gives you the multiple dialogs.
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Old 07-31-2023, 06:17 AM   #23787
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Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Yes, absolutely! The toggle needs to be on a button with an LED indicator. Same for ToggleAutoFXMapping. I honestly see auto-map taking a back seat now that Learn is working.

You get to a useful FX map much faster with Learn than you do with auto-map, for the simple reason that you only Learn the controls that make sense to you. Auto-map throws everything on to the surface and leaves you with a huge mess to sort out in the edit window.
Good point !!
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Old 07-31-2023, 06:17 AM   #23788
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Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Make sure you TURN A CONTROL on the EQ BEFORE entering Learn mode. This is what selects the plugin for Learn, NOT CHOOSING IT FROM THE FXMENU! Capiche?
Got it, yes that works, many things to keep track of and the order you do things IS important.
Re Learning on a previously mapped plugin, I don't have to wiggle plugin before Learn. I can press Learn then wiggle then map, no prob.
Perhaps encourage plugin wiggle, then learn, as a rule.
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Old 07-31-2023, 06:18 AM   #23789
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Having the BCR off or on makes no differences, it's the presence of an Associated Zone named LearnFXParams for multiple Surfaces that gives you the multiple dialogs.
Wiggle plugin then learn is the answer.
EDIT
Wait - I am not sure I understand that?
I don't know if we have that for multiple surfaces? MM?

What is the best way out of Learn mode, if you don't wish to save, like escape?
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Old 07-31-2023, 06:18 AM   #23790
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Glad you're making some headway in the firmware.

Would definitely be worth discussing Learn/Automap default behaviors when it comes time. The good news is that the toggle actions all already exist so it may just be a matter of coming up with a consensus about what are good defaults and squashing any last bugs.
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Old 07-31-2023, 06:19 AM   #23791
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Got it, yes that works, many things to keep track of and the order you do things IS important.
Re Learning on a previously mapped plugin, I don't have to wiggle plugin before Learn. I can press Learn then wiggle then map, no prob.
Perhaps encourage plugin wiggle, then learn, as a rule.
Yup, we need to refine the workflow a bit before we put it in production.

Thanks to you and the others for testing !!

That's what the Exp versions are all about
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Old 07-31-2023, 06:21 AM   #23792
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Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
Glad you're making some headway in the firmware.
Had a great Skype with the developer today, things are a lot more clear now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
Would definitely be worth discussing Learn/Automap default behaviors when it comes time. The good news is that the toggle actions all already exist so it may just be a matter of coming up with a consensus about what are good defaults and squashing any last bugs.
I think MM has it, auto map functions should now default to off.

Do you agree ?
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Old 07-31-2023, 06:21 AM   #23793
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Re Learning on a previously mapped plugin, I don't have to wiggle plugin before Learn. I can press Learn then wiggle then map, no prob.
Yes, it will work, but this is why you see those warning dialogs for saving.

In that circumstance, you're attempting to change the selected plugin whilst in learn and CSI is asking you whether you want to save the controls for the plugin you're leaving behind (whether or not you've actually learnt any new controls).

Wiggle then learn is the best policy
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Old 07-31-2023, 06:23 AM   #23794
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Wait - I am not sure I understand that?
I don't know if we have that for multiple surfaces? MM?
You have multiple surfaces that all use the same Zone folder, you're good
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Old 07-31-2023, 06:26 AM   #23795
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You have multiple surfaces that all use the same Zone folder, you're good
Ah, interesting, one of the aforementioned nuances.

Maybe I can put in a check for common FX Zone folders and cut down on the cascading dialogs.

[edit] Uh oh, just realized it's a bit worse than that. If you have common FX folders and you press Save, it's luck of the draw which Surface Saves last and clobbers the other Surface Zone definitions.

Methinks Learn needs to move up to Page scope...

Hmmm... but then multiple Surfaces that don't share FX folders are out of luck.

Remind me who it was that asked that Learn span Surfaces
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Old 07-31-2023, 06:28 AM   #23796
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Ah, interesting, one of the aforementioned nuances.

Maybe I can put in a check for common FX Zone folders and cut down on the cascading dialogs.
You could, but if he wiggles before he learns the boxes won't appear
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Old 07-31-2023, 06:28 AM   #23797
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Yup, we need to refine the workflow a bit before we put it in production.

Thanks to you and the others for testing !!

That's what the Exp versions are all about
@flipotto is an excellent tester! @funkybot and I have far too much a priori knowledge of CSI to find a lot of the things he turns up.
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Old 07-31-2023, 06:30 AM   #23798
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What is the best way out of Learn mode, if you don't wish to save, like escape?
GoHome.
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Old 07-31-2023, 06:34 AM   #23799
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You could, but if he wiggles before he learns the boxes won't appear
Please see the edit to that post ...
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Old 07-31-2023, 06:47 AM   #23800
Geoff Waddington
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Rethinking this whole thing.

Maybe auto map is an Action that can be assigned to a button.

It looks for a focused FX and maps that.

Learn is local to a Surface.

GoAssociatedZone LearnFXParams does not broadcast.

The only tricky bit is GoAssociatedZone on extenders with limited buttons -- modifiers are our friend here.

Once in LearnFXParams, we can use buttons like Rec Arm, etc. for our needs.

Learn can't be used from multiple Surfaces that share Zone folders, pick a surface as the "Learn" Surface and use that exclusively.

That gets us out of most of the issues I can think of immediately.

Thoughts/suggestions ?
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