Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > MIDI Hardware, Control Surfaces, and OSC

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-11-2023, 11:15 PM   #24121
jacksoonbrowne
Human being with feelings
 
jacksoonbrowne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 657
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Here's my MCU Zone folder. Take a look at the relevant Zones for the new stuff: LearnFXParams, FXLayouts, SurfaceFXLayout.

In the Buttons Zone, F1 engages Learn mode (activates LearnFXParams.zon). In the LearnFXParams.zon, F2 is SaveLearnedFXParams and F3 is EraseLastTouchedControl. Obviously, these can re-assigned to suit your setup.
Thanks MM,

Will start testing it now
__________________
AKA: Roy Wallingford
jacksoonbrowne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2023, 01:59 PM   #24122
glouglou49
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: angers
Posts: 11
Default Control many vst at the same time

Hi, thanks for the great work. I’m a beginner in CSI. I have an X-Touch Universal and a PC. I want to control 3 VSTs at the same time (FabFilter EQ, Comp and Gate), Channel 1-4 EQ, Channel 5-6 Comp and Channel 7-8 Gate. Can I do that?
My goal is to use Reaper as a digital mixer for my rehearsal studio. I would like to be able to switch between different types of consoles with track templates (Neve SSL Fabfilter…) and always have the same control.

Last edited by glouglou49; 08-12-2023 at 10:46 PM.
glouglou49 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2023, 02:48 AM   #24123
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 11,455
Default

New Exp build is up.

https://stash.reaper.fm/v/42044/CSI%20Exp.zip

Cleaned up ClearWidget functionality.

With the new Broadcast/Receive implementation, it was possible to get artifacts across Surfaces.

MM, could you verify that this doesn't stress out your C4s too much.

Added more SCE24 support.
__________________
To install you need the CSI Software and Support Files
For installation instructions and documentation see the Wiki
Donate -- via PayPal to waddingtongeoff@gmail.com
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2023, 02:53 AM   #24124
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 11,455
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by glouglou49 View Post
Hi, thanks for the great work. I’m a beginner in CSI. I have an X-Touch Universal and a PC. I want to control 3 VSTs at the same time (FabFilter EQ, Comp and Gate), Channel 1-4 EQ, Channel 5-6 Comp and Channel 7-8 Gate. Can I do that?
My goal is to use Reaper as a digital mixer for my rehearsal studio. I would like to be able to switch between different types of consoles with track templates (Neve SSL Fabfilter…) and always have the same control.
Welcome to the forum !!

This thread is for technical feature discussion.

Please repost you question to this thread https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....278718&page=23

There are lots of folks just waiting to help get you going on that thread
__________________
To install you need the CSI Software and Support Files
For installation instructions and documentation see the Wiki
Donate -- via PayPal to waddingtongeoff@gmail.com
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2023, 06:25 AM   #24125
MixMonkey
Human being with feelings
 
MixMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: London, England.
Posts: 4,927
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
New Exp build is up.

https://stash.reaper.fm/v/42044/CSI%20Exp.zip

Cleaned up ClearWidget functionality.

With the new Broadcast/Receive implementation, it was possible to get artifacts across Surfaces.

MM, could you verify that this doesn't stress out your C4s too much.

Added more SCE24 support.
Seems ok here I was getting some garbage on the MCU displays which seems to have gone now, nice one!
MixMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2023, 07:04 AM   #24126
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 11,455
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Seems ok here I was getting some garbage on the MCU displays which seems to have gone now, nice one!
Slamming faders should be gone as well, can you verify ?
__________________
To install you need the CSI Software and Support Files
For installation instructions and documentation see the Wiki
Donate -- via PayPal to waddingtongeoff@gmail.com
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2023, 07:30 AM   #24127
MixMonkey
Human being with feelings
 
MixMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: London, England.
Posts: 4,927
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Slamming faders should be gone as well, can you verify ?
Yes, sorry All very smooth now
MixMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2023, 08:22 AM   #24128
MT4U
Human being with feelings
 
MT4U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Unifield
Posts: 396
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
New Exp build is up.

https://stash.reaper.fm/v/42044/CSI%20Exp.zip

Cleaned up ClearWidget functionality.

With the new Broadcast/Receive implementation, it was possible to get artifacts across Surfaces.

MM, could you verify that this doesn't stress out your C4s too much.

Added more SCE24 support.
Slamming faders are gone. FX Menu as well as any other SubZones called from the Buttons Zone are only displayed on the X-Touch. Extender stays on the Track Zone. The June build in my Production setup shows these on both surfaces.
Previous builds used to show the FX-Menu not across both surfaces, but repeated. Even that was better though.

This is my CSI.ini
Code:
Version 3.0

MidiSurface "X-TouchXT" 12 12 
MidiSurface "X-Touch" 7 8 
MidiSurface "X-Touch_One" 11 11 

Page "HomePage" UseScrollLink UseScrollSynch
"X-TouchXT" 8 0 "X-TouchXT.mst" "X-TouchXT" "X-TouchXT" 
"X-Touch" 8 8 "X-Touch.mst" "X-Touch" "X-Touch" 
"X-Touch_One" 8 16 "X-Touch_One.mst" "X-Touch_One" "X-Touch_One"
X-Touch Home
Code:
Zone Home
//    OnInitialization Broadcast ToggleEnableFocusedFXMapping SelectedTrackSend SelectedTrackReceive SelectedTrackFXMenu FocusedFXMapping 
    OnInitialization SetBroadcastGroup "X-TouchXT"
    OnInitialization ToggleRestrictTextLength 7
    OnInitialization ToggleScrollLink
    OnInitialization ToggleShouldReceiveHome
    OnInitialization ToggleShouldReceiveSelected
    OnInitialization ToggleShouldReceiveTrack
    OnInitialization ToggleShouldReceiveAutoMapLearn
    OnInitialization ToggleShouldReceiveFocus
    ...
    ...
Extender
Code:
Zone Home
//    OnInitialization Receive ToggleEnableFocusedFXMapping SelectedTrackSend SelectedTrackReceive SelectedTrackFXMenu
    OnInitialization SetBroadcastGroup "X-Touch"
    OnInitialization ToggleRestrictTextLength 7
    OnInitialization ToggleShouldReceiveHome
    OnInitialization ToggleShouldReceiveSelected
    OnInitialization ToggleShouldReceiveTrack
    OnInitialization ToggleShouldReceiveAutoMapLearn
    OnInitialization ToggleShouldReceiveFocus
The Auto/Learn window shows this text, seems trimmed:

" There is no map for this "
" Press Auto Map to generate a "
" Press Learn to go into Learn "
" Press Cancel to do "

Can't get AutoMap to work, but I must have broken some Zone while setting this test config, gotta check it out.

One thing I noticed is that after I press "Auto Map" in the dialogue and as said, fails to work, nothing is created in the Zones (and children) folders but I'm not asked to AutoMap/Learn again even after restarting Reaper.

I'll restart Windows and see what happens, or is there any config file written?


[edit] As usual, a Windows restart. I got back the dialog and FX SubZones were created in the AutoGeneratedFXZones folders. Learn works like a charm with both surfaces.
__________________

CSI_FX
: SubZone based GUI/Automapper for CSI.(UPD:2024-01-13)
Video Demo/Tutorial
Scripts for CSI: Reaper EEL2 scripts to use with CSI

Last edited by MT4U; 08-13-2023 at 01:23 PM.
MT4U is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2023, 01:33 PM   #24129
MT4U
Human being with feelings
 
MT4U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Unifield
Posts: 396
Default

Well... after some RTFM I got the latest EXP working nice on my setup.

Only two downsides I've found from latest official release

1) We already know. FX-Menu does not span. It was really useful, but not such a big deal to lose it.

2) GoAssociatedZone does not seem to broadcast, at least with custom Associated Zones.
i.e.: I have an AssociatedZone with 14 track templates, 8 on the Extender and the rest on the X-Touch. In the official CSI release I press a button on the X-Touch and get my 14 templates, with latest EXP only the X-Touch shows templates, Extender stays on track zone.
__________________

CSI_FX
: SubZone based GUI/Automapper for CSI.(UPD:2024-01-13)
Video Demo/Tutorial
Scripts for CSI: Reaper EEL2 scripts to use with CSI
MT4U is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2023, 02:47 PM   #24130
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 11,455
Default

New Exp build is up.

https://stash.reaper.fm/v/42044/CSI%20Exp.zip


SCE24 support.

Possible fix for double release messages.

Change in colour nomenclature:

Foreground -> TextColor
Background -> BackgroundColor

ForegroundOn -> TextColorOn
BackgroundOn -> BackgroundColorOn

ForegroundOff -> TextColorOff
BackgroundOff -> BackgroundColorOff
__________________
To install you need the CSI Software and Support Files
For installation instructions and documentation see the Wiki
Donate -- via PayPal to waddingtongeoff@gmail.com
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2023, 02:50 PM   #24131
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 11,455
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MT4U View Post
Well... after some RTFM I got the latest EXP working nice on my setup.

Only two downsides I've found from latest official release

1) We already know. FX-Menu does not span. It was really useful, but not such a big deal to lose it.

2) GoAssociatedZone does not seem to broadcast, at least with custom Associated Zones.
i.e.: I have an AssociatedZone with 14 track templates, 8 on the Extender and the rest on the X-Touch. In the official CSI release I press a button on the X-Touch and get my 14 templates, with latest EXP only the X-Touch shows templates, Extender stays on track zone.
There is no such thing as a custom Associated Zone, the names are hardwired.

You were getting away with it before we introduced SetBroadcastGroup

Maybe there is another way to accomplish what you need ?
__________________
To install you need the CSI Software and Support Files
For installation instructions and documentation see the Wiki
Donate -- via PayPal to waddingtongeoff@gmail.com
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2023, 03:29 PM   #24132
MT4U
Human being with feelings
 
MT4U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Unifield
Posts: 396
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
There is no such thing as a custom Associated Zone, the names are hardwired.

You were getting away with it before we introduced SetBroadcastGroup

Maybe there is another way to accomplish what you need ?
Well, yeah. Got a couple of "Custom " Associated Zones.

The Zone was a way to quickly use my displays to show some (more than 8) track templates with different rec inputs and get recording in a split second with the press of a button. The Zone works fine, just doesn't broadcast to enable the use of other surfaces in the new scheme.

Will try to figure something out, still have a quite optimized 3.1.0 for now that's my best option so far.
__________________

CSI_FX
: SubZone based GUI/Automapper for CSI.(UPD:2024-01-13)
Video Demo/Tutorial
Scripts for CSI: Reaper EEL2 scripts to use with CSI
MT4U is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2023, 06:25 PM   #24133
MixMonkey
Human being with feelings
 
MixMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: London, England.
Posts: 4,927
Default

Geoff, would it be possible to limit the scope of modifiers to a Broadcast Group? (instead of global or local being the only choices).

Also, @Carlos_ring just raised the question of auto-mapped parameters distributing themselves across multiple surfaces. Does this sound possible? The surfaces could be combined into a Broadcast Group as a basis for the distribution of parameters.
MixMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2023, 08:59 AM   #24134
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 11,455
Default

New Exp build is up.

https://stash.reaper.fm/v/42044/CSI%20Exp.zip

Added

Code:
TrackVolumeWithMeterAverageLR
TrackVolumeWithMeterMaxPeakLR
for the SCE24, but they should work with any encoder that has rings.
__________________
To install you need the CSI Software and Support Files
For installation instructions and documentation see the Wiki
Donate -- via PayPal to waddingtongeoff@gmail.com
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2023, 09:01 AM   #24135
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 11,455
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Geoff, would it be possible to limit the scope of modifiers to a Broadcast Group? (instead of global or local being the only choices).

Also, @Carlos_ring just raised the question of auto-mapped parameters distributing themselves across multiple surfaces. Does this sound possible? The surfaces could be combined into a Broadcast Group as a basis for the distribution of parameters.
Yeah, the concept of Broadcast Groups opens up a lot of possibilities, much to discuss...
__________________
To install you need the CSI Software and Support Files
For installation instructions and documentation see the Wiki
Donate -- via PayPal to waddingtongeoff@gmail.com
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2023, 09:20 AM   #24136
Funkybot
Human being with feelings
 
Funkybot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Joisey
Posts: 6,073
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Yeah, the concept of Broadcast Groups opens up a lot of possibilities, much to discuss...
I was recently thinking about broadcast/receive and was wondering if it would help to have "Surface Broadcast Options" that could be defined in the CSI Device settings to simplify the setup of broadcast/receive and catch the various use-cases.

Here are some example options:

1. Standalone surface (no broadcast/receive of anything)
2. Surface Extender Group [w/ Channel Offsets] (e.g. MCU, XT1, XT2)
3. Closed Surface Group (MFTwister+iPad - broadcast/receive everything within the group)

So I could go into the device settings and just tell CSI that the MFTwister and iPad are part of the same Closed Surface Group and they mirror each other.

My X-Touch One is a standalone 1 channel surface.

My X-Touch Universal is also a standalone surface, but if I buy an XT, it becomes part of a Surface Extender Group.

Then CSI just covers the broadcast/receive logic behind the scenes, writing whatever it needs to the home zones or csi.ini.

Maybe add an option for "Global, Local or Group Modifiers" to the Device settings too.

Cragster could say "hey, my 2 C4's are standalone surfaces" and CSI would handle the rest and just treat them as two completely separate surfaces with either a shared or non-shared FX zones. MM's setup may be the most complex so curious if these options would cover his use case.

Just a pie in the sky idea.
__________________
CSI v3 Wiki
Funkybot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2023, 02:24 PM   #24137
Funkybot
Human being with feelings
 
Funkybot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Joisey
Posts: 6,073
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
New Exp build is up.

https://stash.reaper.fm/v/42044/CSI%20Exp.zip

Added

Code:
TrackVolumeWithMeterAverageLR
TrackVolumeWithMeterMaxPeakLR
for the SCE24, but they should work with any encoder that has rings.
@Cragster, were you the person that created the MFTwister setup with meters on the encoders? If yes, these actions do the same thing without any workaround.
__________________
CSI v3 Wiki
Funkybot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2023, 02:39 PM   #24138
MixMonkey
Human being with feelings
 
MixMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: London, England.
Posts: 4,927
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
I was recently thinking about broadcast/receive and was wondering if it would help to have "Surface Broadcast Options" that could be defined in the CSI Device settings to simplify the setup of broadcast/receive and catch the various use-cases.
I seem to remember Geoff saying that controlling this from the prefs was his intention once we had it sorted out.

Quote:
Here are some example options:

1. Standalone surface (no broadcast/receive of anything)
2. Surface Extender Group [w/ Channel Offsets] (e.g. MCU, XT1, XT2)
3. Closed Surface Group (MFTwister+iPad - broadcast/receive everything within the group)
These certainly represent the bulk of use cases, but the ToggleShouldReceive syntax opens up a lot of options. The prefs matrix could end up quite large.
Quote:
Maybe add an option for "Global, Local or Group Modifiers" to the Device settings too.
Definitely quite large

Quote:
MM's setup may be the most complex so curious if these options would cover his use case.
Whilst I have several surfaces, I think my setup is more simple than most. The MCU and XTs just handle channel functions (so Track, VCA and Folder) and the C4s handle Sends, Receives and FX. I have the option to have Sends on the MCU so I can write automation using the touch sensitive faders but most of the time I use the C4 rotaries. I'd say the options you describe cover my use (once the ToggleShouldReceive logic is added in).

I think we need to to get the modifiers into the Broadcast Group logic and take a look to see if the spanning of Sends, Receives, FXMenu and FX parameters across Group members is a realistic possibility. Once that's established we'll probably have a better idea about the prefs matrix.
MixMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2023, 04:01 PM   #24139
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 11,455
Default

Yeah, just starting to formulate some thoughts.

Here's a trial balloon.

The config panel (prefs) now has three lists:

Code:
Sufaces
Pages
Assignments
Suggest adding a fourth list that is initially hidden.

Then add a button labelled "Advanced".

A lot of folks won't need this at all.

However, when pressed, the "Assignments" label changes to "Broadcasters".

The fourth list appears and is labelled "Receivers".

You simply select a row in the Broadcasters list and add/remove receivers to/from the Receivers list.

This fourth list could also contain checkboxes for:

Code:
ReceiveSelected
ReceiveTrack  
ReceiveAutoMapLearn
ReceiveFocus   
ReceiveHome
and anything else we decide to add.

You would select a receiver from the list and check the boxes as required for that receiver Surface.

Floor is open for discussion...
__________________
To install you need the CSI Software and Support Files
For installation instructions and documentation see the Wiki
Donate -- via PayPal to waddingtongeoff@gmail.com
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2023, 04:36 PM   #24140
Funkybot
Human being with feelings
 
Funkybot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Joisey
Posts: 6,073
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
New Exp build is up.

https://stash.reaper.fm/v/42044/CSI%20Exp.zip

Added

Code:
TrackVolumeWithMeterAverageLR
TrackVolumeWithMeterMaxPeakLR
for the SCE24, but they should work with any encoder that has rings.
Geoff, is the intention with these actions that they will display TrackVolume when no audio is playing and be a meter when audio is playing? That's what's happening here. So they're showing the standard TrackVolume feedback whenever nothing is playing, and they're only a meter during playback.

Also, exiting Reaper doesn't clear the SCE24 displays.

Still can't get Learn going either for completely unknown reasons. Even removed the RotaryEnc and RotaryFB widgets just to see if they might have been causing an issue but no luck.

Weird little glitch with the SCE-24:

1. Add an FX to a track
2. Map the FX using the menu
3. When prompted to Learn or Automap click Learn

Result: nothing happens.

4. RotaryPush again to activate the FX a second time
5. This time, select Automap

Expected Result: plugin is automapped

Actual Result: the displays get weird (font sizes increase) but the plugin doesn't map.
__________________
CSI v3 Wiki
Funkybot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2023, 04:46 PM   #24141
Funkybot
Human being with feelings
 
Funkybot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Joisey
Posts: 6,073
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Yeah, just starting to formulate some thoughts.

Here's a trial balloon.

The config panel (prefs) now has three lists:

Code:
Sufaces
Pages
Assignments
Suggest adding a fourth list that is initially hidden.

Then add a button labelled "Advanced".

A lot of folks won't need this at all.

However, when pressed, the "Assignments" label changes to "Broadcasters".

The fourth list appears and is labelled "Receivers".

You simply select a row in the Broadcasters list and add/remove receivers to/from the Receivers list.

This fourth list could also contain checkboxes for:

Code:
ReceiveSelected
ReceiveTrack  
ReceiveAutoMapLearn
ReceiveFocus   
ReceiveHome
and anything else we decide to add.

You would select a receiver from the list and check the boxes as required for that receiver Surface.

Floor is open for discussion...
Sounds like the idea is that each potential broadcaster could have one or more receiver? So I could have my MFTwister being received by the iPad and my Desktop, have the iPad being received by the MFTwister and Desktop, and have the Desktop received by the iPad and MFTwister. Sounds good so far.

I agree with MM that we'd probably want to add something like ReceiveBroadcastGroupModifiers or something so modifiers within a broadcast group are not local or global but effect the entire group.
__________________
CSI v3 Wiki
Funkybot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2023, 04:50 PM   #24142
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 11,455
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
Geoff, is the intention with these actions that they will display TrackVolume when no audio is playing and be a meter when audio is playing? That's what's happening here. So they're showing the standard TrackVolume feedback whenever nothing is playing, and they're only a meter during playback.
Yes, that's the expected behaviour.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
Also, exiting Reaper doesn't clear the SCE24 displays.

Still can't get Learn going either for completely unknown reasons. Even removed the RotaryEnc and RotaryFB widgets just to see if they might have been causing an issue but no luck.

Weird little glitch with the SCE-24:

1. Add an FX to a track
2. Map the FX using the menu
3. When prompted to Learn or Automap click Learn

Result: nothing happens.

4. RotaryPush again to activate the FX a second time
5. This time, select Automap

Expected Result: plugin is automapped

Actual Result: the displays get weird (font sizes increase) but the plugin doesn't map.
Yup, still lots of tweaking to do on the SCE24 from a CSI perspective, was concentrating on getting the firmware completed first.
__________________
To install you need the CSI Software and Support Files
For installation instructions and documentation see the Wiki
Donate -- via PayPal to waddingtongeoff@gmail.com
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2023, 04:58 PM   #24143
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 11,455
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
Sounds like the idea is that each potential broadcaster could have one or more receiver? So I could have my MFTwister being received by the iPad and my Desktop, have the iPad being received by the MFTwister and Desktop, and have the Desktop received by the iPad and MFTwister. Sounds good so far.
Yes, a Surface can appear in both Broadcasters and Receivers, so you can achieve your use case.

You could even set up hierarchy trees, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
I agree with MM that we'd probably want to add something like ReceiveBroadcastGroupModifiers or something so modifiers within a broadcast group are not local or global but effect the entire group.
Modifiers are tricky, I like to have the SCE24 use global modifiers until I map an FX, then I like them to be local.

Upon FX Zone deactivation, the SCE24 goes back to global modifiers.

To me the modifier Actions need to be more dynamic, at least for my workflow.
__________________
To install you need the CSI Software and Support Files
For installation instructions and documentation see the Wiki
Donate -- via PayPal to waddingtongeoff@gmail.com
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2023, 06:29 PM   #24144
MixMonkey
Human being with feelings
 
MixMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: London, England.
Posts: 4,927
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
To me the modifier Actions need to be more dynamic, at least for my workflow.
The reasoning behind having them apply to a Group is that you're very likely to want the modifiers to perform the same action on all the surfaces in the Group - the Track Zone on MCU and XTs, say, but not want that modifier to affect another Group, the C4s say.

Sure, you can set the C4s to Local Modifiers and they will ignore the Global modifier used in the MCU Group, and this is what I do, but I have to have modifiers defined on both the C4 surfaces when I really only need them on one (and get back four precious buttons)

The proposed prefs layout sounds great btw
MixMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2023, 06:41 PM   #24145
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 11,455
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
The reasoning behind having them apply to a Group is that you're very likely to want the modifiers to perform the same action on all the surfaces in the Group - the Track Zone on MCU and XTs, say, but not want that modifier to affect another Group, the C4s say.

Sure, you can set the C4s to Local Modifiers and they will ignore the Global modifier used in the MCU Group, and this is what I do, but I have to have modifiers defined on both the C4 surfaces when I really only need them on one (and get back four precious buttons)

The proposed prefs layout sounds great btw
Do we maybe need 3 classes of modifiers ?

Global, Group, Local ?
__________________
To install you need the CSI Software and Support Files
For installation instructions and documentation see the Wiki
Donate -- via PayPal to waddingtongeoff@gmail.com
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2023, 03:04 AM   #24146
Freex
Human being with feelings
 
Freex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 920
Default

Noticed someone said about a matrix, in reference to the Broadcast Receive Saga

Would that not be the easy (all seeing) way to go?

___|R1|R2|R3|R4|R5
B1 | X | X | X | X | X
B2 |
B3 |
B4 |
B5 |

So if you checked the box B1/R2 Surface 1 would broadcast to Surface 2
Or in other words Surface one now broadcasts and Surface 2 now receives but not globally.

For Surface 1 to broadcast globally all the Receives in line B1 would have to be checked, otherwise it's only to what is checked, be that local or a Group.
As long as there was no "thru feed" Example lets say Surface1 broadcasts to Surface2 but surface2 broadcasts to surface3
Surface2 would only receive from surface 1 but wouldn't "feed thru" any of that received info to surface 3, so no re-broadcasting.

Obviously the names B1,B2.... R1.R2... could be auto filled from setup with the users defined names.

Could even have it where you could have 1=Global, G=Group L=Local, or X=FX exclusive, for when in a FXzone or 0,1,2,3,4 being Off, Global, Group, Local, FX. Whatever worked best.


But it could resolve all the Global Group local stuff in one neat package.

Last edited by Freex; 08-15-2023 at 09:36 AM.
Freex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2023, 05:31 AM   #24147
MixMonkey
Human being with feelings
 
MixMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: London, England.
Posts: 4,927
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Do we maybe need 3 classes of modifiers ?

Global, Group, Local ?
That would be ideal, if possible.
MixMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2023, 05:59 AM   #24148
Funkybot
Human being with feelings
 
Funkybot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Joisey
Posts: 6,073
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
That would be ideal, if possible.
I was just about to chime in with the same.
__________________
CSI v3 Wiki
Funkybot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2023, 12:50 PM   #24149
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 11,455
Default

Just read Carlos Ring's post in the other thread, about FX params spanning Surfaces.

This really should be part of the Broadcast/Receive discussion.

TrackNavigationManager is currently at Page scope.

ZoneManager is currently at Surface scope.

Seems like we could move ZoneManager to Broadcast Surface scope and all would be good.

Conceptually that's true, but, as usual, the devil's in the details

Tracks are, in some ways much more homogeneous, volume param always on Fader, pan param always on Rotary, etc., for all Surfaces.

Comparatively, FX params are a hodge podge of a dog's breakfast.

Not quite sure how to conceptualize this any differently than we do now, with partial Zone definitions for each Surface with Broadcast/Receive messages for navigation.

Thoughts/suggestions ?
__________________
To install you need the CSI Software and Support Files
For installation instructions and documentation see the Wiki
Donate -- via PayPal to waddingtongeoff@gmail.com
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2023, 01:11 PM   #24150
Funkybot
Human being with feelings
 
Funkybot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Joisey
Posts: 6,073
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Just read Carlos Ring's post in the other thread, about FX params spanning Surfaces.

This really should be part of the Broadcast/Receive discussion.

TrackNavigationManager is currently at Page scope.

ZoneManager is currently at Surface scope.

Seems like we could move ZoneManager to Broadcast Surface scope and all would be good.

Conceptually that's true, but, as usual, the devil's in the details

Tracks are, in some ways much more homogeneous, volume param always on Fader, pan param always on Rotary, etc., for all Surfaces.

Comparatively, FX params are a hodge podge of a dog's breakfast.

Not quite sure how to conceptualize this any differently than we do now, with partial Zone definitions for each Surface with Broadcast/Receive messages for navigation.

Thoughts/suggestions ?
Would something like this be feasible?

Code:
Zone SurfaceFXLayout MCU XT1 XT2
	Rotary FXParam RingStyle=Dot
	DisplayUpper FixedTextDisplay
	DisplayLower FXParamValueDisplay
ZoneEnd

#WidgetTypes Rotary RotaryPush Fader
#RingStyles Dot Fill BoostCut Spread
#DisplayRows DisplayUpper DisplayLower
The idea being that you're telling CSI "hey, use this same configuration on these 3 devices, which I want as part of one big group."

The restriction being that there needs to be a consistent SurfaceFXLayout between all surfaces. So MCU/X-Touch+XT's? No problem. 2 C4's? No problem! Two Twisters? Got ya covered! But you couldn't combine a Faderport8 + a Mackie C4.

I think that would cover the most common use-cases (extenders or two of the same device).
__________________
CSI v3 Wiki
Funkybot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2023, 01:17 PM   #24151
Funkybot
Human being with feelings
 
Funkybot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Joisey
Posts: 6,073
Default

...of course, then I think RemapAutoZone action would need to be on a per-device level if run after the fact. Whereas Learn mode should broadcast+receive to/from all devices.
__________________
CSI v3 Wiki
Funkybot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2023, 01:37 PM   #24152
MixMonkey
Human being with feelings
 
MixMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: London, England.
Posts: 4,927
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
The idea being that you're telling CSI "hey, use this same configuration on these 3 devices, which I want as part of one big group."
...or just have CSI regard the three Grouped devices as one twenty four channel surface, for everything.
MixMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2023, 01:42 PM   #24153
Funkybot
Human being with feelings
 
Funkybot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Joisey
Posts: 6,073
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
...or just have CSI regard the three Grouped devices as one twenty four channel surface, for everything.
I recall Geoff saying aggregating devices would be a headache previously, but yeah, that works too!

My original idea was that CSI would treat them as 3 independent surfaces (using the MCU+XT1+XT2 example), like it currently does, and just write 3 separate zone files to 3 separate zone folders. Then with broadcast/receive, those fx.zon's get activated as a group so it's effectively the same thing as one big surface.
__________________
CSI v3 Wiki
Funkybot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2023, 02:02 PM   #24154
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 11,455
Default

Ok, so you are all thinking along the same lines as I am.

But now I want you to dig a little deeper.

For instance, if you treat it as one 24 channel Surface, what does that really mean ?

For Tracks it's easy, since Tracks are homogeneous items.

But for FX params, you could have 1, 2, or even 3 present on a given channel (Fader, Rotary, RotaryPush).

It's like saying channel 1 has Track 1, but channel 2 has Tracks 2, 3, and 4.

The paradigm breaks down.

FB, you're right, what does Remap even look like under these conditions ?

These are the kinds of "devil's in the details" considerations I'm struggling with...
__________________
To install you need the CSI Software and Support Files
For installation instructions and documentation see the Wiki
Donate -- via PayPal to waddingtongeoff@gmail.com
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2023, 02:14 PM   #24155
Funkybot
Human being with feelings
 
Funkybot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Joisey
Posts: 6,073
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Ok, so you are all thinking along the same lines as I am.

But now I want you to dig a little deeper.

For instance, if you treat it as one 24 channel Surface, what does that really mean ?

For Tracks it's easy, since Tracks are homogeneous items.

But for FX params, you could have 1, 2, or even 3 present on a given channel (Fader, Rotary, RotaryPush).

It's like saying channel 1 has Track 1, but channel 2 has Tracks 2, 3, and 4.

The paradigm breaks down.

FB, you're right, what does Remap even look like under these conditions ?

These are the kinds of "devil's in the details" considerations I'm struggling with...
That breakdown was why I was thinking don't aggregate or attempt to. At least not for FX. I'm thinking this would be easiest for you but cover everything needed:
  • Using the MCU+XT1+XT2 example...
  • When it comes to learn mode, treat them as 3 independent surfaces
  • They would have 3 different FX zone folders
  • Entering Learn mode on one would enter Learn mode on the other 2 per broadcast/receive setup
  • Now that all 3 are in Learn mode, I can put FXParam 0 on Fader 1 on the MCU, put FXParam 1 on Fader 1 on XT1, and put FXParam 3 on Fader1 on XT2, then keep on mapping across all 3.
  • CSI, behind the scenes, is building 3 independent FX maps for 3 surfaces
  • I press Save and that broadcsts/recieves to all 3
  • CSI writes 3 different FX Zones, one for each surface
  • Now in the future, I just activate the FX and standad broadcast+receive logic activates the 3 different maps on the 3 different surfaces all at once
  • If I remap, I'm limited to one surface at a time. Or...add a "Surface" dropdown to the top of the Remap window and allow any surface with an FX map for that plugin to be selected
  • Only big difference is automap - in that case, the FX would just map in order across the 3 devices as specified in the SurfaceFXLayout (so 1-8 on the MCU, then any modfiers, then the XT1 plus any modifiers, then XT2 plus any modifiers)

...so it would basically work exactly like how it does for 1 surface, just being able to do that for more than one device at a time.
__________________
CSI v3 Wiki
Funkybot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2023, 02:34 PM   #24156
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 11,455
Default

Thanks MM and FB, this discussion has cleared my mind a bit.

A Track is like an FX, with many parameters -- volume, pan, etc.

The difference is, every FX is exactly the same.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
That breakdown was why I was thinking don't aggregate or attempt to. At least not for FX. I'm thinking this would be easiest for you but cover everything needed:
  • Using the MCU+XT1+XT2 example...
  • When it comes to learn mode, treat them as 3 independent surfaces
  • They would have 3 different FX zone folders
  • Entering Learn mode on one would enter Learn mode on the other 2 per broadcast/receive setup
  • Now that all 3 are in Learn mode, I can put FXParam 0 on Fader 1 on the MCU, put FXParam 1 on Fader 1 on XT1, and put FXParam 3 on Fader1 on XT2, then keep on mapping across all 3.
  • CSI, behind the scenes, is building 3 independent FX maps for 3 surfaces
  • I press Save and that broadcsts/recieves to all 3
  • CSI writes 3 different FX Zones, one for each surface
  • Now in the future, I just activate the FX and standad broadcast+receive logic activates the 3 different maps on the 3 different surfaces all at once
  • If I remap, I'm limited to one surface at a time. Or...add a "Surface" dropdown to the top of the Remap window and allow any surface with an FX map for that plugin to be selected
  • Only big difference is automap - in that case, the FX would just map in order across the 3 devices as specified in the SurfaceFXLayout (so 1-8 on the MCU, then any modfiers, then the XT1 plus any modifiers, then XT2 plus any modifiers)

...so it would basically work exactly like how it does for 1 surface, just being able to do that for more than one device at a time.
Agree 100% !

So, really auto map and Remap present the most challenges.

This could get a bit intricate code wise, but maybe something like this.

Auto map starts with the Broadcaster:

Code:
Zone FXLayouts // for Broadcast Surface
	"" "" 8
	"Shift" "" 8
	"Control" "" 8
	"Option" "" 8
ZoneEnd
It then attempts to find an equivalent in the Receivers:
Code:
Zone FXLayouts // for a Receiver Surface
	"" "" 8
	"Shift" "" 8
	"Control" "" 8
	"Option" "" 8
ZoneEnd
It proceeds down this trail until all of the params are mapped or there are no Widgets left.

Remap presents a larger challenge.

Simple drag reorder is restricted to the parameters present for a given Surface.

Now, that can be overridden by manually entering a param number in the edit window.

Of course, there is now more manual intervention required, in that, you must remember to adjust things accordingly in the other Surface Zone definitions.

Getting more clear by the post
__________________
To install you need the CSI Software and Support Files
For installation instructions and documentation see the Wiki
Donate -- via PayPal to waddingtongeoff@gmail.com
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2023, 02:39 PM   #24157
Funkybot
Human being with feelings
 
Funkybot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Joisey
Posts: 6,073
Default

Just to throw a spanner into the works, would users with extenders want the auto-mapping order to go like this:

MCU - unmodified row
XT1 - unmodified row
XT2 - unmodified row
MCU - Shift row
XT1 - Shift row
XT2 - Shift row
MCU - Option row
XT1 - Option row
XT2 - Option row
etc.

...I think the answer would be yes. And that might get tricky for automap.
__________________
CSI v3 Wiki
Funkybot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2023, 03:10 PM   #24158
Freex
Human being with feelings
 
Freex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 920
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
Just to throw a spanner into the works, would users with extenders want the auto-mapping order to go like this:

MCU - unmodified row
XT1 - unmodified row
XT2 - unmodified row
MCU - Shift row
XT1 - Shift row
XT2 - Shift row
MCU - Option row
XT1 - Option row
XT2 - Option row
etc.

...I think the answer would be yes. And that might get tricky for automap.
I had thought the same, but didn't like to say, as I use a C4 for all my FX, so what would I know. Lol.
Freex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2023, 03:14 PM   #24159
Geoff Waddington
Human being with feelings
 
Geoff Waddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 11,455
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
Just to throw a spanner into the works, would users with extenders want the auto-mapping order to go like this:

MCU - unmodified row
XT1 - unmodified row
XT2 - unmodified row
MCU - Shift row
XT1 - Shift row
XT2 - Shift row
MCU - Option row
XT1 - Option row
XT2 - Option row
etc.

...I think the answer would be yes. And that might get tricky for automap.
Wow, did I do a crappy job of attempting to illustrate, that's exactly what I as going for

Let's try again, just one Broadcaster and one Receiver, but could be many Receviers:

Here's the sequence:

Code:
Zone FXLayouts // for Broadcast Surface
	"" "" 8
	"Shift" "" 8
	"Control" "" 8
	"Option" "" 8
ZoneEnd
Code:
Zone FXLayouts // for  Receiver Surface
	"" "" 8
	"Shift" "" 8
	"Control" "" 8
	"Option" "" 8
ZoneEnd
Code:
Zone FXLayouts // for Broadcast Surface
	"" "" 8
	"Shift" "" 8
	"Control" "" 8
	"Option" "" 8
ZoneEnd
Code:
Zone FXLayouts // for  Receiver Surface
	"" "" 8
	"Shift" "" 8
	"Control" "" 8
	"Option" "" 8
ZoneEnd
Code:
Zone FXLayouts // for Broadcast Surface
	"" "" 8
	"Shift" "" 8
	"Control" "" 8
	"Option" "" 8
ZoneEnd
Code:
Zone FXLayouts // for  Receiver Surface
	"" "" 8
	"Shift" "" 8
	"Control" "" 8
	"Option" "" 8
ZoneEnd
Code:
Zone FXLayouts // for Broadcast Surface
	"" "" 8
	"Shift" "" 8
	"Control" "" 8
	"Option" "" 8
ZoneEnd
Code:
Zone FXLayouts // for  Receiver Surface
	"" "" 8
	"Shift" "" 8
	"Control" "" 8
	"Option" "" 8
ZoneEnd
[edit] Actually just realized the Surfaces don't have to look the same, you could mix MCUs, C4s, Twisters, etc.

CSI auto map could just go by FXLayouts row number -- row 1 of Broadcaster FXLayouts, row 1 of Receiver1 FXLayouts, row 1 of Receiver2 FXLayouts, etc.

Then, similarly row 2, 3, 4, etc.

Broadcasters and Receivers could even have dissimilar FXLayouts row counts.
__________________
To install you need the CSI Software and Support Files
For installation instructions and documentation see the Wiki
Donate -- via PayPal to waddingtongeoff@gmail.com

Last edited by Geoff Waddington; 08-15-2023 at 03:22 PM.
Geoff Waddington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2023, 04:39 PM   #24160
MT4U
Human being with feelings
 
MT4U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Unifield
Posts: 396
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
Just to throw a spanner into the works, would users with extenders want the auto-mapping order to go like this:

MCU - unmodified row
XT1 - unmodified row
XT2 - unmodified row
MCU - Shift row
XT1 - Shift row
XT2 - Shift row
MCU - Option row
XT1 - Option row
XT2 - Option row
etc.

...I think the answer would be yes. And that might get tricky for automap.
I totally agree!
__________________

CSI_FX
: SubZone based GUI/Automapper for CSI.(UPD:2024-01-13)
Video Demo/Tutorial
Scripts for CSI: Reaper EEL2 scripts to use with CSI
MT4U is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.