Old 08-22-2023, 03:00 AM   #561
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I think if lanes by default functioned like Pro Tools Playlists
But doesn't Reaper have playlist/track versions too?
If you duplicate a comp lane and collapse to one lane, you can switch those comp lanes ala track versions. Actually each new lane we duplicate is similar toa new track variation.
You can switch them.from the arrows or from the lane header menu.
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Old 08-22-2023, 03:28 AM   #562
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The reason the pro tools system is so loved is that it’s a great way for storing and maintaining iterations as well as takes in a clear and concise way that even if you hand off the session to another producer they can understand work with.
yes, right. I still don't get why there are special "comp lanes" if you can comp to any lane? Why not just drop them and just have "lanes". Feels especially strange regarding the "track" pendant. We also just have tracks where you can do what you want. Perhaps it's because of the order (comp lanes are listed above "normal lanes")? In Pro Tools playlists the nice thing is: The promoted playlist where you comp to or record in appears at the top. You don't have a playlist to comp to and a playlist to record in, you just have a top playlist which is the main playlist for the time being. If you add another playlist, this new playlist will be on top while the other playlist moves to its position. Straight and easy to understand/handle.
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Old 08-22-2023, 03:36 AM   #563
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BTW, could we please have the API for collapsed - non collapsed state of a track?
You can do it via track chunk, view the difference between collapsed and non collapsed chunk state. think its "lanesolo" not sure (on phone atm) but I've done it in my script
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Old 08-22-2023, 03:56 AM   #564
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You can do it via track chunk, view the difference between collapsed and non collapsed chunk state. think its "lanesolo" not sure (on phone atm) but I've done it in my script
Do you know if it's possible with the current API to select those?
1)items on muted lanes
2)items on soloed lanes
3)items in comp areas
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Old 08-22-2023, 04:28 AM   #565
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You can do it via track chunk, view the difference between collapsed and non collapsed chunk state. think its "lanesolo" not sure (on phone atm) but I've done it in my script
Ah yeah, makes sense. I need some practicing on chunks anyway. So it's good to learn something.
Are API functions like GetMediaTrackInfoValue "nothing else" than shortcuts for track chunks?
Sorry to get a bit off topic...

Thanks for the info Sexan.
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Old 08-22-2023, 04:34 AM   #566
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Yeah kind-ish

Install
Code:
Script: amagalma_Chunk ViewerEditor.lua
Will make your life easier for debug and initial testing since you can edit it directly
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Old 08-22-2023, 06:10 AM   #567
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But doesn't Reaper have playlist/track versions too?
If you duplicate a comp lane and collapse to one lane, you can switch those comp lanes ala track versions. Actually each new lane we duplicate is similar toa new track variation.
You can switch them.from the arrows or from the lane header menu.
Yes it currently functions like that and overall i’m fine with it. I think it could be slightly more complicated than it needs to be with the whole “Record into lane” feature but I understand the idea of being able to play all lanes at the same time and how that can necessitate the comp lane focus system. The only problem i’ve encountered with the lane system so far is that Reaper crashes and will not go beyond 60ish layers. If we can get unlimited layers it will allow for ultimate flexibility of choice. Either working in the cubase style where you use the old take system for tracking takes and making comps, and the lanes system for iterations or the pro tools/studio one system where every take is on it’s own lane and you use the comp tool and comp lanes to create comps.
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Old 08-22-2023, 07:35 AM   #568
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I think it could be slightly more complicated than it needs to be with the whole “Record into lane” feature but I understand the idea of being able to play all lanes at the same time and how that can necessitate the comp lane focus system.
Sorry but what do you mean with this? You can also play one lane after recording and not all of them.
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Old 08-22-2023, 09:06 AM   #569
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Sorry but what do you mean with this? You can also play one lane after recording and not all of them.
Currently default behaviour is to automatically create a new lane when hitting record on a lane with an item on it. You have to turn on the option of “record into lane” in order to record punch in’s on a lane. While I actually like this behaviour because of the options it offers I think it could be refined to toggle on/off on the focussed lane only. Right now when you have a few lanes you actually have to choose which lane to record into with a drop down… so sometimes you accidentally record into the wrong lane and not the one you have focussed… hope that makes sense. I’ll try to get a licecap today to be more clear.

I think default behaviour should be that whatever lane is the top lane is the “master” (focused)
lane and you can either comp into or record into (when record into lane it clicked) that master lane. Then if you create a new lane above it, it becomes the master and so on and so forth. Then if you want to play all lanes just have that as a toggle.

Hope that makes sense.
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Old 08-22-2023, 09:24 AM   #570
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Currently default behaviour is to automatically create a new lane when hitting record on a lane with an item on it. You have to turn on the option of “record into lane” in order to record punch in’s on a lane. While I actually like this behaviour because of the options it offers I think it could be refined to toggle on/off on the focussed lane only. Right now when you have a few lanes you actually have to choose which lane to record into with a drop down… so sometimes you accidentally record into the wrong lane and not the one you have focussed… hope that makes sense. I’ll try to get a licecap today to be more clear.
A licecap would be nice indeed, but as i understood you're searching the lane to record from the dropdown when the header buttons are collapsed and you see only the arrows? Yeah in this case with many lanes would be difficult to do. Maybe it could record to the lane number that's visible when buttons are collapsed, but then we lose the ability to record anywhere even when they're collapsed. But If the buttons aren't collapsed you could right click on the lane button and record to this lane without choosing the wrong lane.

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I think default behaviour should be that whatever lane is the top lane is the “master” (focused)
lane and you can either comp into or record into (when record into lane it clicked) that master lane. Then if you create a new lane above it, it becomes the master and so on and so forth. Then if you want to play all lanes just have that as a toggle.
.
In Reaper you can make master any lane you want, or record anywhere you want. It's just different than protools but to me I think it doesn't seem less flexible, but also I've been using this feature since day one. You could even comp while layering another lane, since even in comp mode you can solo multiple lanes and listen with the master lane while comping There's also many mouse modifiers and actions to toggle play all lanes and a bunch of other behaviors.
I think it needs some time to get used to the way it works .(they are many)

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Old 08-22-2023, 11:00 AM   #571
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In Reaper you can make master any lane you want, or record anywhere you want. It's just different than protools but to me I think it doesn't seem less flexible, but also I've been using this feature since day one. You could even comp while layering another lane, since even in comp mode you can solo multiple lanes and listen with the master lane while comping There's also many mouse modifiers and actions to toggle play all lanes and a bunch of other behaviors.
I think it needs some time to get used to the way it works .(they are many)
Is there a video tutorial or something of this workflow? Would love to see how you do it. Maybe i’m just missing the better way to do it and am blinded by how long i’ve been doing it in PT.
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Old 08-22-2023, 11:33 AM   #572
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Is there a video tutorial or something of this workflow? Would love to see how you do it. Maybe i’m just missing the better way to do it and am blinded by how long i’ve been doing it in PT.
I made a very simple demo:


Of course if you want you can edit the items at the top lane that's layering with the master lane. And you can also add new items to comp or layer from the lane add area, not just similar recordings.
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Old 08-22-2023, 11:47 AM   #573
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How to work like this? if I zoom in I cant even read the track I'm working on. This still feels like the biggest problem.

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Old 08-22-2023, 11:48 AM   #574
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I made a very simple demo:


Of course if you want you can edit the items at the top lane that's layering with the master lane. And you can also add new items to comp or layer from the lane add area, not just similar recordings.
Awesome, thank you for this. This is definitely great, do you know what to do when you want to punch in a certain area on an already comped track? If that also works (sorry I have been at work and unable to run my own tests) the only thing that’s currently hampering me is the lane limit of 60ish. Reaper seems to cap out and crash around there.
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Old 08-22-2023, 12:07 PM   #575
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Awesome, thank you for this. This is definitely great, do you know what to do when you want to punch in a certain area on an already comped track? If that also works (sorry I have been at work and unable to run my own tests) the only thing that’s currently hampering me is the lane limit of 60ish. Reaper seems to cap out and crash around there.
You mean this maybe?



btw I agree with both of you about the high number of lanes, I believe it will be fixed though
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Old 08-22-2023, 12:15 PM   #576
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You mean this maybe?



btw I agree with both of you about the high number of lanes, I believe it will be fixed though
Yep, i’ll test it out but, does that mess up the comp items?

Thanks so much for the discourse on this! Seems like just a few bugs to iron out then. Unlimited lanes and sometimes record into lanes disables automatically.
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Old 08-22-2023, 12:30 PM   #577
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Yep, i’ll test it out but, does that mess up the comp items?

Thanks so much for the discourse on this! Seems like just a few bugs to iron out then. Unlimited lanes and sometimes record into lanes disables automatically.
There's a solution, you need to unselect this option "Create comp areas for new recording while comping"
Then the previous comp areas won't break after new recording.

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Old 08-22-2023, 02:27 PM   #578
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There's a solution, you need to unselect this option "Create comp areas for new recording while comping"
Then the previous comp areas won't break after new recording.

Awesome, okay thank you so much for all your help and communication with this! Really really appreciate it!
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Old 08-22-2023, 10:58 PM   #579
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not in studio right now:
how will it behave if you comp to c1, then do a comp to c2 which has comp areas in c1 and you then change the source material of c1. will it affect c2?
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Old 08-23-2023, 12:50 AM   #580
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What do you mean to change the source material? Edit the source items or their comp areas?
Not infront of my PC as well.
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Old 08-23-2023, 01:21 AM   #581
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What do you mean to change the source material? Edit the source items or their comp areas?
Not infront of my PC as well.
edit the source items while leaving the comp areas.
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Old 08-23-2023, 02:31 AM   #582
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I will test later but I think it will affect c2, since editing the sources the result is auto promoted to the master lane, in this case c2.
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Old 08-23-2023, 02:53 AM   #583
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K let me know, I can check tomorrow. Yeah could be possible but I think it shouldn't affect it. Otherwise you couldn't really use comp lanes to store a comp.
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Old 08-23-2023, 03:06 AM   #584
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I will post a gif later with some of my thoughts and a way to store any edit or comp with the script track snapshot regarding this.
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Old 08-23-2023, 04:45 AM   #585
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not in studio right now:
how will it behave if you comp to c1, then do a comp to c2 which has comp areas in c1 and you then change the source material of c1. will it affect c2?
If you change the source material in c1 while actively comping to c2 (meaning comp areas are displayed), the changes will affect c2. If you are not actively comping, then changes to any lane will not affect any other lane.

If you change some source media (regardless of what kind of lane it's on) with comping disabled, and then you re-enable comping, some comp areas may then be out of sync, but the media on the comp lane won't be affected.
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Old 08-23-2023, 05:46 AM   #586
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If you change the source material in c1 while actively comping to c2 (meaning comp areas are displayed), the changes will affect c2. If you are not actively comping, then changes to any lane will not affect any other lane.

If you change some source media (regardless of what kind of lane it's on) with comping disabled, and then you re-enable comping, some comp areas may then be out of sync, but the media on the comp lane won't be affected.
perfect!
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Old 08-23-2023, 07:37 AM   #587
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If you change the source material in c1 while actively comping to c2 (meaning comp areas are displayed), the changes will affect c2. If you are not actively comping, then changes to any lane will not affect any other lane.

If you change some source media (regardless of what kind of lane it's on) with comping disabled, and then you re-enable comping, some comp areas may then be out of sync, but the media on the comp lane won't be affected.
It could get a bit tricky I think in a case where we edit C1 and promote to C2 and then go back to C1 to use as a master lane, the previous comps are not going to be the same because we've edited C1, which became a source for C2. So I think editing a previous comp lane to promote to another, needs to be aware so we don't loose any previous comps. (actually switching back to C1 as master lane it doesn't show the right unsynced source, which could be helpful, but it comps C2 as a source)



I think it would be nice if we had an option to save track snapshots too from the lane header menu, so both edits and comps could be saved/restored. This way we could have our main sources intact as the first preset, and then go wild with editing or comping to any lane. (Even to existing comp lanes)




Something else that I've noticed, when the lanes are collapsed while comping is on, and we have multiple comp lanes, could it activate each comp lane as we're switching them when collapsed? It would be nice to know this way too which one is a comp lane, or to be able to switch comps from the arrows on comp areas.

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Old 08-23-2023, 08:02 PM   #588
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We’re going to need a “delete all lanes except the active lane” as an option… and one option that is really great in pro tools is if you select file/save copy of session to new folder an option menu pops up and asks what you want to include, and one of those is “main playlist only” which will save a new version of the session with all the extra lanes deleted and all that is left is the tracks with their master lane. It’s a great way to create a mix session without all the extra stuff. I’d bet just a “delete all lanes except active lane on selected tracks” would serve this function well.
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Old 08-23-2023, 11:10 PM   #589
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We’re going to need a “delete all lanes except the active lane” as an option… and one option that is really great in pro tools is if you select file/save copy of session to new folder an option menu pops up and asks what you want to include, and one of those is “main playlist only” which will save a new version of the session with all the extra lanes deleted and all that is left is the tracks with their master lane. It’s a great way to create a mix session without all the extra stuff. I’d bet just a “delete all lanes except active lane on selected tracks” would serve this function well.
Try this: Item lanes: Delete lanes (including media) that are not playing
(Hope it gets added in header menu)

IF you have multiple master lanes you can just solo those and hit the action to remove the rest except the master lanes

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Old 08-23-2023, 11:59 PM   #590
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Copying and pasting something I wrote on the Cubase forums years ago:

I often loop a section of a song to record singers, then I assemble a “perfect take” using lanes. Now I’d like to use the UNUSED clips of audio to create a doubled or even a tripled voice from the lanes.

Currently, I have to select each bit of audio in the lanes and move them manually to a new track, assemble a new perfect take, and move these to a new track. This is to make sure I do not use any same bit of audio twice of course.

Would be nice to have a command that moves all of the active audio clips in lanes to a new track, leaving you with other takes to assemble and create another doubled track from.
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Old 08-24-2023, 12:20 AM   #591
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^^
It's possible to explode lanes to new tracks, or explode the selected items to a new track, or copy the items of a lane to a new track, if that helps.
Hope those actions will be added in the header menu.
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Old 08-24-2023, 02:51 AM   #592
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Try this: Item lanes: Delete lanes (including media) that are not playing
(Hope it gets added in header menu)

IF you have multiple master lanes you can just solo those and hit the action to remove the rest except the master lanes
Thanks i’ll check this out, I found it in the actions list a couple pre’s ago but it seemed it only worked one track at a time. Maybe when I did this it wasn’t working properly. I’ll recheck.
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Old 08-24-2023, 05:22 AM   #593
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I made a very simple demo:


Of course if you want you can edit the items at the top lane that's layering with the master lane. And you can also add new items to comp or layer from the lane add area, not just similar recordings.
What's your current method of previewing the selected sections of each lane? That likely sounds kind of silly, but i feel i have struggled with this as opposed to the takes method of switching takes, making a split, etc. Is there a way to list to just the highlighted section of a media lane to ensure that you have fairly precisely made your cuts?
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Old 08-24-2023, 08:28 AM   #594
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What's your current method of previewing the selected sections of each lane? That likely sounds kind of silly, but i feel i have struggled with this as opposed to the takes method of switching takes, making a split, etc. Is there a way to list to just the highlighted section of a media lane to ensure that you have fairly precisely made your cuts?
Hey good question. the only way I can think of that might help a a bit is to use the modifier "Play only this lane while mouse button is pressed", which is in the fixed lane header button context.
But this doesn't work on each comped section, it triggers from the lane buttons and it solo that lane while the button is pressed and mutes the rest lanes until you release the mouse.
But I think it would be useful to have a similar modifier to preview comp areas, like hover the mouse to a comp area, set time selection, solo that lane temporary, start the playback from the mouse cursor, but to trigger while holding the mouse.

Edit: Or maybe you could do something similar with the items at the top lane since this is the result from the comped selections, like to listen one by one, and then you can adjust their length from the comp area edges.

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Old 08-24-2023, 08:47 AM   #595
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What's your current method of previewing the selected sections of each lane? That likely sounds kind of silly, but i feel i have struggled with this as opposed to the takes method of switching takes, making a split, etc. Is there a way to list to just the highlighted section of a media lane to ensure that you have fairly precisely made your cuts?
Not sure I understand the question. What exactly is the takes workflow you are trying to recreate?
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Old 08-24-2023, 09:09 AM   #596
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Maybe something like this

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Old 08-24-2023, 10:15 AM   #597
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Not sure I understand the question. What exactly is the takes workflow you are trying to recreate?

this is my version whish how i would like to preview:

special Razor Edit Style modifier for the task of previewing its selection while mouse button down and able to be monitored even if lane is muted in the Comp section which is candidate . Ability to cancel with esc before commit.

Cool !
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Old 08-24-2023, 10:21 AM   #598
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Default Lane window

I thought about how the workflow with lanes could be improved. At the moment we need to vertically zoom in and out constantly, especially if we get a decent amount of lanes. That's really a challenge as it eats so much time and is so much effort.

I'd love to have a dockable lane window that shows all lanes of the selected track even if the lanes of the track are collapsed. That window could have its own zooming settings, so we could leave the TCP zooms untouched and do the comping in this new lane window. I think this could be very promising as we could show or hide it as we want to, move it to a different display, have a better overview when working with track edit groups as it only would show the lanes of the selected track.
This could combine the advantages of lanes and the "subtrack" approach most DAWs have (showing takes as subtracks like reaper does with envelopes).

I'd REALLY love to see that. Zooming in and out to see the waveforms of the single lanes if you got some of them is the biggest disadvantage of the system right now I think.
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Old 08-24-2023, 10:45 AM   #599
deeb
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^^it's getting there! almost inevitable. I am really glad this workflow improvement are happening. version 7 ++
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Old 08-24-2023, 10:52 AM   #600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb View Post
^^it's getting there! almost inevitable. I am really glad this workflow improvement are happening. version 7 ++
fingers crossed. I think that feature could combine everything. Automatically being in comping mode when using the lane window while being able to handle the TCP the normal way. Damn that could be soooo delicious.
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