Old 11-26-2018, 02:52 PM   #1
Burnsjethro
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Default kick drum and snare

Help please. I have been reading a lot of articles lately about editing the kick drum and snare (apply this to the kick to tighten this, do this to the snare to ...).
So the question is. I have been recording kick drum and snare (high hat,..) with tap pads (no need to normalise as I am a crap drummer).
Irrespective of that, how do you eq, reverb, delay... (according to the suggestions) the kick and snare separately? Do you have to chop them into separate items or record them on separate tracks or what?

Anton
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Old 11-26-2018, 03:02 PM   #2
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Separate tracks makes it easier because then you can create one track that has Reverb on it and take the sends from the kick, the snare and high hat and send varying amounts to the Reverb.
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Old 11-26-2018, 03:27 PM   #3
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Thank you so much coachz

Is there no way of post-editing with tap drumming?

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Old 11-26-2018, 06:52 PM   #4
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What is tap drumming?

Reaper has many ways to overdubs as shown here.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hj_...w?usp=drivesdk
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Old 11-27-2018, 02:18 AM   #5
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Thanks for all that information Coachz.

Perhaps tap drumming is the wrong expression.

I have midi keyboard with pads to which I have assigned kick, snare, high-hat, etc.
I really enjoy playing them as opposed to creating loops and it helps improve my rhythm plus I don't have to "normalise" my drumming afterwards, I do that naturally.

So how do they manage to add the different effect on kick and snare when the track has a real drummer playing?

Anton
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Old 11-27-2018, 02:53 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burnsjethro View Post
Thanks for all that information Coachz.

Perhaps tap drumming is the wrong expression.

I have midi keyboard with pads to which I have assigned kick, snare, high-hat, etc.
I really enjoy playing them as opposed to creating loops and it helps improve my rhythm plus I don't have to "normalise" my drumming afterwards, I do that naturally.

So how do they manage to add the different effect on kick and snare when the track has a real drummer playing?

Anton
Are you using the MIDI keyboard to trigger drum sounds from a VST instrument loaded as an FX on the recording track or does your keyboard have built in sounds and you are recording the audio directly from the keyboard?
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Old 11-27-2018, 03:21 AM   #7
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Yes pads are assigned to drums sounds in the fxs.


And now I have assigned them to sounds in the MT-power drumkit whose sounds I think are more authentic

Could I add effects (reverb, delay, eq) after the kick and snare effects, for example?

Anton
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Old 11-27-2018, 08:39 AM   #8
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If you are using a sound module that only has a mono or stereo output, your only choice would be to try slicing it apart after the fact to create multitrack to allow separate production of the individual drums samples.

And that would be an epic amount of tedious work just like it looks like it would be! Also kind of impossible to do perfectly with multiple drum samples played together at times.

You need to upgrade to a sound module (hardware or software) that has multiple outputs to allow you to record the individual drum samples on separate tracks.

"Unmixing" anything is special case work and there really has to be a hunger there!
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Old 11-27-2018, 09:19 AM   #9
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One thing worth looking at is editing your actual MIDI recorded sequences.
I am still a pretty crap drummer but play in the feel I want for a few bars then once it is safely recorded, open the tracks in the MIDI editor and fix any noticeable timing errors I have made.
Works for me.
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Old 11-27-2018, 11:32 AM   #10
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Thanks for all of these replies.

Anton
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Old 11-27-2018, 03:59 PM   #11
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Try this....

On the track with the MT-Power Drum VST, click on the FX button and select the drum VST. Now click Options and choose 'Build multi-channel routing...'.

If the drum VST supports multiple audio output channels, Reaper will create a series of new tracks, each track receiving the VST's audio output on a different channel.

Now, in the drum VST user interface (usually on a 'mixer' page), you should be able to choose which audio channel each drum element outputs to - e.g. Kick to out 1, Snare to out 2, Hats to out 3 and so on...

Now you can record MIDI drums on the single VST track and, when you play it back, each drum element's audio is sent to its own specific audio track, on which you can play around with EQ, compression, add reverb sends etc. - anything you like.

Of course, if the drum VST doesn't support multiple audio output channels, then all of the above is moot!
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Old 11-28-2018, 02:51 AM   #12
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That sounds very promising. I will try it out sometime today.
Thanks a lot uncleswede.

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Old 11-28-2018, 10:54 AM   #13
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Sorry to be obtuse, uncle, but I think you were going a bit too fast for me.

"On the track with the MT-Power Drum VST, click on the FX button and select the drum VST. Now click Options and choose 'Build multi-channel routing...'."

I opened the MT-Power Drum, which is in instruments. What do you mean by select the "drum VST". Is this another fx in addition to the MT-Power fx? Or am I clicking the MT-power fx.
I certainly don't see any "drum VST" anywhere in the VST section of the fxs!
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Old 11-28-2018, 12:39 PM   #14
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It means when you're on the track and you open the vsts window, right click on the VST name and you'll see the option.
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Old 11-28-2018, 12:52 PM   #15
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"On the track with the MT-Power Drum VST, click on the FX button and select the drum VST. Now click Options and choose 'Build multi-channel routing...'."


So you mean I have already added the power drum (or have I?) and now I open up the fx and then open up "add fx" (VTS window) to see Power drum, which I right-click.
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Old 11-28-2018, 01:01 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burnsjethro View Post
So you mean I have already added the power drum (or have I?) and now I open up the fx and then open up "add fx" (VTS window) to see Power drum, which I right-click.
These videos should be helpful:
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZe-CKu2G-o
- https://www.reaper.fm/videos.php#8CzL_7NPysk
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Old 11-28-2018, 01:10 PM   #17
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I am getting there.

Inserted power drum, right-clicked, options, click build multi-channel routing.
I have several tracks now. They all have to be armed, which I did, for my tap pads to work (the kick, snare,... in power drum are all assigned to a particular pad. They are all working. Making the usual noises. I am not sure about the "Now, in the drum VST user interface (usually on a 'mixer' page), you should be able to choose which audio channel each drum element outputs to - e.g. Kick to out 1, Snare to out 2, Hats to out 3 and so on..."

I will record something just like that and see what happens.

Anton
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Old 11-28-2018, 01:14 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burnsjethro View Post
I am not sure about the "Now, in the drum VST user interface (usually on a 'mixer' page), you should be able to choose which audio channel each drum element outputs to - e.g. Kick to out 1, Snare to out 2, Hats to out 3 and so on..."
Pressing the (Mixer) button at the bottom of the MT Power Drums window opens the Mixer Page - shown at around 3:00 in the first video link (found in my previous post). At the bottom of each mixer channel is the dropdown box for the output channel selection.
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Old 11-28-2018, 01:32 PM   #19
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Thanks Solger, your messages arrived after I sent mine.

I went to the mixer and set 1, 2, 3 to kick, snare. Armed every track. Recorded but now everything is on the main track where power drum itself is.

I will have a look at your videos tomorrow. In the meantime, thanks everyone for your contributions. I am halfway there.

Anton
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Old 11-29-2018, 11:20 AM   #20
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Well I followed uncleswede and solger's instructions and although I can see the signals going to the tracks I have assigned them(I assigned kick and snare), on the screen, arming the track with the drum and fx turned on, when I play it back both the kick and snare are on that one track.
I think it is a bit too complicated for me at this stage.
I also go lost with Kenny's explanations.

But he did manage to turn up another problem.
I really liked the look of that Kontakt player he was using, so decided to download it, which I managed to do but then when I proceeded to open it it told me it could not possibly because of my graphic interface! Surprised. I have a Windows 10 operating system. It isan oldish computer that has been updated and had the memory boosted!

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Old 11-30-2018, 09:42 AM   #21
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Hi Anton,

maybe check out using/loading this MT Power Drumkit 2 Track Template to set up the Tracks: https://stash.reaper.fm/v/22199/TRAC...RTrackTemplate
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Old 11-30-2018, 09:48 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burnsjethro View Post
But he did manage to turn up another problem.
I really liked the look of that Kontakt player he was using, so decided to download it, which I managed to do but then when I proceeded to open it it told me it could not possibly because of my graphic interface! Surprised. I have a Windows 10 operating system. It isan oldish computer that has been updated and had the memory boosted!
Sounds like your graphics chip/card doesn't support the required OpenGL 2.1 version: https://support.native-instruments.c...s-error-OpenGL
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Old 11-30-2018, 10:44 AM   #23
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Thanks very much for going to all that trouble on my behalf, Solger.
I will try out the template later on.
Any ideas how to remedy the graphics chip/card problem?

Anton
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Old 11-30-2018, 02:09 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burnsjethro View Post
Any ideas how to remedy the graphics chip/card problem?
As suggested in the link in post #22, you can try to check if there's a driver update available for your current graphics chip/card model.

In case your current graphics chip/card is already an older model and can't support the required OpenGL version (2.1 or higher) at all, one possible option would be to upgrade to or install a new graphics card.
But the main question here is probably if this is worth the effort or worth spending money on in general for basically 'getting one specific software to work'.


Another option to try might be the following:

1) Downloading the Kontakt Player 5.1.0 legacy Windows installer from here: https://support.native-instruments.c...s/360000568949
2) And then downloading a Kontakt 5 Player update installer (like version 5.6.6 or 5.5.2 - or maybe even an older one **) from here - which requires logging in with a NI account ***: https://www.native-instruments.com/e...pdate-manager/

This way it might be possible to get some use out of an older Kontakt 5 Player version.

--------------------------

** Can't remember exactly with which Kontakt 5.x version OpenGL 2.1 was introduced as requirement - might have probably been something like 5.6.0 or 5.6.8 ...
*** In case you don't already have a NI Account: https://support.native-instruments.c...e-a-NI-Account
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Old 12-02-2018, 07:02 AM   #25
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Sorry for not getting back to you sooner, Solger and thank you so much for all this information.

The template actually does work when I click on the kick, snare, etc. in the program. The different sounds do all appear on separate tracks.
However, when I tap on my Akai midi keyboard the sounds all appear on the same track. I think I have to alter the settings in the program mixer so the numbers correspond to the numbers on the midi pads. You obviously cannot help me there because you would have to be beside me to see what is going on.

I tried the links for the older version of the Kontakt player you said but I still get the message about my graphic card. I updated it but it told me it was up to date.
So I took a screenshot of the message and took it down my local computer shop and they said to take my machine in on Tuesday and they will see what they can do.
I see what you mean about whether it is worth getting one specific piece of software but I think I have to get this solved as everytime I download something for Reaper I risk having the same problem. I downloaded something recommended by the fellow on the Reaper blog and although it did install, some of the graphic features (not very important in this case) failed to be displayed.

I will keep you posted about my progress.

Thanks very much for going to all that trouble. I don't know how to repay you all. I obviously don't have much in the way of recording skills to offer.
But if you need any advice about vegetable gardening, playing acoustic guitar, mandolin, bad keyboards, bringing up children, making wine and beer, or you need translations from French or Dutch into English, I'm your man!
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Old 12-04-2018, 03:07 AM   #26
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Wallon ou flamande?
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Old 12-04-2018, 04:05 AM   #27
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Pertinent question Ivanesc.
Actually I am better at translating from Flemish than from Dutch, whereas Walloon is a dialect spoken by some, particularly older, members of the French-language Community, so I never had to translate that. Although I confess I am more comfortable with French written by Belgians than people in France.

Anton
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Old 12-14-2018, 12:41 PM   #28
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OK, after a long hiatus, I am now back with a progress report on trying to get Kontact, Native Instruments to work.

I took my "music" computer into the shop more than a week ago but they had a lot of rush jobs and no time to work on it.
They worked on it this week and actually managed to bypass the message I kept getting about my graphic card not being up to the task and did so without having to add any hardware (I am not sure what the solution was, something to do with my computer being an upgrade to Word 10 and only minimum support being offered for updates, or something to that effect). They charged me €54 for the work, so that was not too bad at all.

Back home with the computer, I clicked on Native Access. This worked fine, except it asked me for my e-mail and password (which I of course I forgotten to note owing to my confusion about the graphic card business). I had to acquire a new password. I went back and forth to their website and apparently managed to download their free items.

I am now stuck again!

Everything I downloaded (well it did all by itself) is in a Native Instruments folder on my C drive, the same drive where I have Reaper and a VST plugins folder.

I went into Reaper preferences and added the Native Access folder and clicked re-scan, turned Reaper off and on again. No sign of any new instrument. Did clear cache/re-scan, turned off and on and still nothing.

What I have in the Native Instruments folder are the following folders: Kontakt, Native Access, Reaktor 6, VST plugins 32 bit and VST plugin 64 bit.
The VST plug 64 bit folder (my system is 64 bit, that much I do know) features Kontakt.dll
Reakto 6 fx.dll and Reaktor 6.dll.

So should I move the entire Native Instruments folder into my VST-plugins folder, or just the VST plug 64 bit folder and then do the preferences-VST plugins-add-rescan routine?

Anton
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Old 12-15-2018, 03:32 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burnsjethro View Post
What I have in the Native Instruments folder are the following folders: Kontakt, Native Access, Reaktor 6, VST plugins 32 bit and VST plugin 64 bit.
The VST plug 64 bit folder (my system is 64 bit, that much I do know) features Kontakt.dll, Reakto 6 fx.dll and Reaktor 6.dll.

So should I move the entire Native Instruments folder into my VST-plugins folder, or just the VST plug 64 bit folder and then do the preferences-VST plugins-add-rescan routine?
Just add the 'VST plugin 64 bit' folder location to Reaper's VST plugin path and do a [Clear cache/rescan] afterwards.

----------------------------

As a general side note:

Moving NI (plugin) files manually from the original install location basically results in broken file paths.
So in this case you would need to use the Repair Function in Native Access to relocate them afterwards: https://support.native-instruments.c...-Native-Access
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Old 12-15-2018, 07:39 AM   #30
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Thank you so much Solger. That did the trick.
I like to keep all my plugins in one folder. I did not really understand this Native Instruments business.

However, at the risk of trying your patience, Solger, I have the three VST plugins added but there are no instruments there with them! I thought you there would be samples of there full range of instruments. Nothing. Whatever I click on there is nothing there!


By the way, the drum template you referred me to does work but I will have to get my son-in-law or son to tweak them to make them a bit more user-friendly, or should that be Anton-friendly), when they visit us at Christmas.




Quote:
Originally Posted by solger View Post
Just add the 'VST plugin 64 bit' folder location to Reaper's VST plugin path and do a [Clear cache/rescan] afterwards.

----------------------------

As a general side note:

Moving NI (plugin) files manually from the original install location basically results in broken file paths.
So in this case you would need to use the Repair Function in Native Access to relocate them afterwards: https://support.native-instruments.c...-Native-Access
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Old 12-15-2018, 12:04 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burnsjethro View Post
However, at the risk of trying your patience, Solger, I have the three VST plugins added but there are no instruments there with them! I thought you there would be samples of there full range of instruments. Nothing. Whatever I click on there is nothing there!
The free instruments are separate download request links (found a little bit further down in the links below). So make sure these ones are installed too:

- Kontakt Factory Selection https://www.native-instruments.com/e...free-download/
- Free Reaktor Player instruments: Blocks Wired & Mikro Prism: https://www.native-instruments.com/e...ktor-6-player/


Otherwise, if you haven't already, try to run the Standalone version of Kontakt and Reaktor outside of Reaper first (to initialize the database, etc.) - before using the plugin version - and see if this makes any difference.


By the way, 'Reaktor 6' in the plugin list is the instrument plugin version. And 'Reaktor 6 FX' (with FX in the naming) is the audio effects version.
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Old 12-16-2018, 06:42 AM   #32
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Thanks a lot for trying to help Solger.

I did open the programs in standalone versions and there is nothing there. There is nothing about initialing a database!

I kept getting sent to the Native Instruments site (do you want ... to allow... to alter you compter, or something like that). There is nothing to be installed. Nothing to be updated. Kontakt 6 player has been installed.

The Kontakt program is just displayed as one line for some strange reason.
I am not sure what you mean by "By the way, 'Reaktor 6' in the plugin list is the instrument plugin version. And 'Reaktor 6 FX' (with FX in the naming) is the audio effects version. "


In fact there is no Reaktor 6 fx.

In my effects I have

VST:Reaktor 6 (Native Instruments GmbH) (16ch)
VSTi:Kontakt (Native Instruments GmbH) (64 out)
VST:Reaktor 6 (Native Instruments GmbH) (2-> 16ch)

Maybe I should give up. Trying to run before I can walk. Make do with what I have for the moment. Hammond organ and piano sounds.

Is there anything similar to Native Instruments anywhere? Free or non-free (not too pricey) where it is a lot simpler to install and the instruments (trumpets, strings,...) don't all sound like synthesised sounds.
I have some free programs but they don't sound very convincing. I can also import some instruments from Ableton but they all sound a bit artificial as well?

Anton
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Old 12-16-2018, 10:11 AM   #33
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I did open the programs in standalone versions and there is nothing there.
Just in case: did you already see the edit in my previous post about the additional download links for the free Reaktor/Kontakt instruments?


Quote:
I am not sure what you mean by "By the way, 'Reaktor 6' in the plugin list is the instrument plugin version. And 'Reaktor 6 FX' (with FX in the naming) is the audio effects version. "
In fact there is no Reaktor 6 fx.
The VST plugin folder contains a Reaktor 6 fx.dll and Reaktor 6.dll plugin file:
Quote:
The VST plug 64 bit folder (my system is 64 bit, that much I do know) features Kontakt.dll, Reaktor 6 fx.dll and Reaktor 6.dll.
The difference is basically that the FX version is an audio effects plugin used on Audio Items/sources (so it won't produce any sound by itself).
And the instrument version is used with MIDI Items/sources.

The 'by the way' commment was mainly meant as a general side note, since it can happen very easily to accidentally load the FX version on a MIDI Track (instead of the instrument version).
I hope this short explanation makes the difference a little bit more clear
Quote:
In my effects I have

VST:Reaktor 6 (Native Instruments GmbH) (16ch)
VSTi:Kontakt (Native Instruments GmbH) (64 out)
VST:Reaktor 6 (Native Instruments GmbH) (2-> 16ch)
Ah, OK. In this case:
  • VST:Reaktor 6 (Native Instruments GmbH) (16ch) --> audio FX version
  • VST:Reaktor 6 (Native Instruments GmbH) (2-> 16ch) --> instrument version
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Old 12-16-2018, 12:01 PM   #34
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Just in case: did you already see the edit in my previous post about the additional download links for the free Reaktor/Kontakt instruments?



Yes, I did see that went to their site, they told me to end my e-mail address and country and they would send me a link. The link was to download Kontakt 6, which I already have.

Thanks for your explanation about what the different plugins do.


Anton
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Old 12-18-2018, 02:40 AM   #35
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Quote:
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Just in case: did you already see the edit in my previous post about the additional download links for the free Reaktor/Kontakt instruments?



Yes, I did see that went to their site, they told me to end my e-mail address and country and they would send me a link. The link was to download Kontakt 6, which I already have.

Thanks for your explanation about what the different plugins do.


Anton
Scroll down to the “DOWNLOAD FREE KONTAKT FACTORY SELECTION” part of the webpage and enter your email there.
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Old 12-18-2018, 06:43 AM   #36
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Dex, thanks for guiding me further along the road.
Everytime I click Native Access I am asked if I want NA to change my settings!

Anyhow, thanks to your help I managed to figure out that if I entered the serial number supplied in Native access "To be installed" would feature Factory Selection. It did and I downloaded it. I tracked it down using the search function to find it has been installed onLocal disk (c) - Users - Public - Public Documents - NI resources.

This is progress indeed but when I click on any of the Native Instrument-related items in Reaper fxs I still do not see any instruments!

Anton
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Old 12-20-2018, 09:42 AM   #37
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In the meantime I have been fiddling around with Ableton Live (light version I think), which came free with my midi keyboard.


Somehow or other (just a fluke) I managed to get Ableton linked to Reaper via rewire. Ableton has some very good instruments. I have a not particularly very good piano I use on one track. I switched it for an Ableton electric piano and there was a hugeimprovement. The problem is how do I retain that sound in Reaper.
If I close Ableton the sound disappears. Is it impossible to keep the sound in Reaper, meaning I have to load Ableton each time I want to use it?

Does the sound stay if I render the track?

Anton
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Old 12-25-2018, 02:34 AM   #38
solger
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Originally Posted by Burnsjethro View Post
Somehow or other (just a fluke) I managed to get Ableton linked to Reaper via rewire. Ableton has some very good instruments. I have a not particularly very good piano I use on one track. I switched it for an Ableton electric piano and there was a hugeimprovement. The problem is how do I retain that sound in Reaper.

If I close Ableton the sound disappears. Is it impossible to keep the sound in Reaper, meaning I have to load Ableton each time I want to use it?
Does the sound stay if I render the track?
Yeah, you can basically render or record the Audio output from the Ableton Live instrument onto a Track in Reaper.

Another possible option (without using ReWire) would be to export/render the instrument Track directly in Ableton Live to an audio file - which can then be imported into Reaper.
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Last edited by solger; 12-25-2018 at 02:47 AM.
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Old 12-25-2018, 06:08 AM   #39
Burnsjethro
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Thanks Solger.

Good suggestions.

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Old 01-03-2019, 11:31 AM   #40
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Thanks for all your help with Native Instruments at the end of last year.
My son-in-law paid a flying visit with my daughter en route to other places but managed to find the time to get the Factory Selection going.
He had to fiddle about a bit. But it is now working. Thanks for helping me along the road.

By the way, I see I am listed as having joined Reaper in 2015, which makes me seem like a complete dunce.
I installed Reaper that year and must have joined these forums at the same time but I quickly (after a couple of weeks) abandoned the program and slunk back to Audacity until deciding to give Reaper another shot last year.

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