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02-22-2018, 02:35 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 981
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Routing a track to centre (3rd output) channel with the track panner
Can you pls make the track panner to send audio to the centre channel ( 3rd output of a multichannel bus) pls ? This can be so much useful while doing surround post production work. What is needed is a way to pan an audio track between 3 channels instead of the two. When the balanced panner is placed at default centre it should route the signal to the centre channel and when moved to the left it should pan it between centre and left and when panned to the right it should pan Audio been right and centre. This would be so useful for LCR panning. You could do the same with a dual panner too. If both the handles of the dual panner is in the middle it should send the audio to the centre channel. You can perhaps give a check box to use the track panner as an LCR panner. If that check box is turned off it can then behave like a traditional stereo panner... Using a plugin to route something pan between 3 channels is really not a good solution. Pls look into this... With this feature reaper can be an amazing solution for surround post production
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02-22-2018, 02:48 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Won't happen I'm pretty sure. For any uncommon panning jobs, you should use ReaSurround.
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02-22-2018, 02:55 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 981
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For your info... Panning between 3 (L,C,R) speakers is not uncommon. It's a basic necessity. I have noticed cockos being a bit reluctant for post production surround features. Thats why I am asking for a very basic feature which can go a long way for film and TV post production users like me....
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02-22-2018, 03:25 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,557
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SOP in Reaper is to use the panning plugin of your choice for surround work. There is no default and this is inconsistent with having a stereo panner built in. The answer is "because".
If you need to see the default stereo pan matrix control changed to a surround tool or nothing... you'll get nothing.
You're also free to use other 3rd party stereo panner plugins as well.
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02-22-2018, 03:50 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serr
SOP in Reaper is to use the panning plugin of your choice for surround work. There is no default and this is inconsistent with having a stereo panner built in. The answer is "because".
If you need to see the default stereo pan matrix control changed to a surround tool or nothing... you'll get nothing.
You're also free to use other 3rd party stereo panner plugins as well.
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This is what I am doing as we speak. But surely a basic 5.1 and 7.1 panner integrated as a track panner would be so simple and efficient to use than the plugin way. I am sure post users will agree...
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02-22-2018, 04:08 PM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Post users don't contain the majority of Reaper userbase...
In any case, if I were you I would not expect this to be implemented any time soon, or possibly ever. This is why devs created ReaSurround - which is also a very efficient plugin.
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02-22-2018, 04:24 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
Post users don't contain the majority of Reaper userbase...
In any case, if I were you I would not expect this to be implemented any time soon, or possibly ever. This is why devs created ReaSurround - which is also a very efficient plugin.
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"Evil" dragon... Have you tried using reasurround for film post work? I see a lot of people using reaper for post and game audio. Infact I see a sticky called "post production feature requests" and there are so many users posting there. Also I noticed everytime I post a thread all you do is say nothing but negative things. When I complained about video issues you even denied the existence of that just because you couldn't see it and told me to switch to windows!! Thats not helping to solve the issue in any way and it's totally counter productive. So I assume, you think if it's not a problem for you... You believe the problem don't exist. If you cannot understand the need for this feature or don't open your eyes and see how many people are using reaper for post work... I kindly request you to stay away from making such silly comments . I don't come and post silly messages and tell you indirectly to get lost in your posts. Let the developers and people who care about reaper for post production discuss this. Hope you understand...
Last edited by svijayrathinam; 02-22-2018 at 04:31 PM.
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02-22-2018, 04:32 PM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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I am not indirectly telling you to get lost, I am telling you what to expect... The request for integrated more complex panners on the track itself is quite old now (and I'm on this forum for almost 8 years now), and the devs didn't implement it in the way people requested, instead they created ReaSurround as a response to that request. That should be telling enough to you about how they go about certain things that is not their usual workflow with Reaper. So... that's what you can expect - anything more than regular LR panning is deferred to ReaSurround, that's how things are.
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02-22-2018, 04:35 PM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
I am not indirectly telling you to get lost, I am telling you what to expect...
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Again.. This is where people post for " feature requests" . It's a section dedicated for that. All I did is post what I feel may be useful. If you don't see the need for it.. Pls move aside. There may be other users who might find this useful. Thx in advance
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02-22-2018, 04:38 PM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Yes, and you posted a request which already existed, in a slightly different wording (multichannel panners integrated in Reaper tracks), plus some posts in the Post-production FRs thread you mentioned also ask for it). It didn't happen.
Well, you'll see in a few years nothing will likely change in this regard... After 8 years of using Reaper and hanging around here, you get the feel for how devs do things. Of course, miracles are always possible, but... There is more to your request than just simply adding it, it would very likely break all the themes first and foremost (among other things). Hence, ReaSurround. Protip: adjust ReaSurround to how you want it and then add track controls for relevant parameters to create your LCR panner (provided this is possible with ReaSurround, which it should be), make this a track template.
Last edited by EvilDragon; 02-22-2018 at 04:43 PM.
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02-22-2018, 04:43 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
I am not indirectly telling you to get lost, I am telling you what to expect... The request for integrated more complex panners on the track itself is quite old now (and I'm on this forum for almost 8 years now), and the devs didn't implement it in the way people requested, instead they created ReaSurround as a response to that request. That should be telling enough to you about how they go about certain things that is not their usual workflow with Reaper. So... that's what you can expect - anything more than regular LR panning is deferred to ReaSurround, that's how things are.
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Just because it didn't happen in eight years... Doesn't mean it won't happen. 8 years ago there weren't so many film, TV and game Audio people using reaper. Were they ? The way you are commenting will actually make the developers stop bothering even if they wanted to do something about it in the first place.
"anything more than regular LR panning is deferred to ReaSurround, that's how things are."
I know that's how things are.. this is a place on the forum to discuss what is required for future and not discuss how things are currently...
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02-22-2018, 05:50 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,557
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I don't like ReaSurround either. JS Surround panner for me.
Pick your battles I suppose. There are so many other things that Reaper made happiness and light for me that I'm good with inserting my own surround panners. I just had to wiggle my finger on a mouse. It's not like I had to patch something in way the hell on the other side of the room or something. But whatever you think about it, inserting your own 3rd party surround panners is the SOP in Reaper.
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02-22-2018, 11:03 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serr
I don't like ReaSurround either. JS Surround panner for me.
Pick your battles I suppose. There are so many other things that Reaper made happiness and light for me that I'm good with inserting my own surround panners. I just had to wiggle my finger on a mouse. It's not like I had to patch something in way the hell on the other side of the room or something. But whatever you think about it, inserting your own 3rd party surround panners is the SOP in Reaper.
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I am sorry... But what is this SOP..? I don't get it...
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02-23-2018, 12:13 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Standard Operating Procedure.
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02-23-2018, 01:09 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
Standard Operating Procedure.
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Thank you
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02-23-2018, 02:09 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 981
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Pls take a look at the video where i explain the benefits of having a track panner for surround
https://youtu.be/vipzRTyCIPE
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02-24-2018, 11:12 AM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 981
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Does anyone here believe what I say on the video would make things easier?
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02-24-2018, 03:41 PM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 11,817
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Definitly.
Since 5.1 ITU starts with the L and R channels, this is an easy transfer that can be designed in to the track 5.1 , 7.1 or 9.1 panner.
NO EXTRA work across tracks necessary. The editors work need not be thrown away.
I fully support track panners being capable of handling standard 5.1 to 9.1 scenarios, that can just use existing stereo track pan automation.
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02-24-2018, 07:31 PM
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#19
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Banned
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: England
Posts: 2,432
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Quote:
I fully support track panners being capable of handling standard 5.1 to 9.1 scenarios, that can just use existing stereo track pan automation.
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Indeed^ it would be very brave and imaginative for cockos to have a single track with multiple pans-- 1+2,3+4,5+6,7+8,9+10. etcetc.
1 track__ 5+ dials for pan-- a truly unique move imo. -> what other daw on the planet does that!? =)
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02-24-2018, 09:28 PM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon
Definitly.
Since 5.1 ITU starts with the L and R channels, this is an easy transfer that can be designed in to the track 5.1 , 7.1 or 9.1 panner.
NO EXTRA work across tracks necessary. The editors work need not be thrown away.
I fully support track panners being capable of handling standard 5.1 to 9.1 scenarios, that can just use existing stereo track pan automation.
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Thank you for supporting it. This feature can also help music production for film post. Almost all music is composed and arranged in stereo to start with and when it gets to the surround mix stage these pans can be so easily preserved and the mixer would only have to worry about front and rear pans. This can never be done with a plugin...
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02-25-2018, 10:17 AM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,557
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There are some workarounds
I definitely agree that there could be more coherence between some things like item fx pan and a surround panner of choice. No reason it has to be at the expense of the ability to use the panner plugin of your choice though. The issue is a disconnect between the item fx and the panner plugin.
FWIW, this is how I handle existing stereo aimed pan automation vs expanding that to surround when it comes up. (Either bits of pre-produced folly or work started in stereo.)
And this whole thing DOES look a little messy! Part of this is probably fallout from Reaper having a minimum of 2 track channels. Looks for all the world like an early decision to base things on 2 channel stereo paths bit them in the ass in the long run. Anyway...
First, I prefer the JS surround panner to the ReaSurround panner most of the time. There's still the business of that 2 channel input defaulting to 2 sides of the surround array. So... alright f it. Let's go with that. If a track (or items in a track) have stereo panning you want to keep or expand to 3D adding front/back, insert (or route to a bus) a JS surround panner and then add only the front/back moves. The original stereo panning is preserved down those 2 track channels with the left/right control left in the center.
I'm not saying this isn't a mess! I'm not saying I prefer this to a cleaned up version. Just saying this is a way I've found to avoid swimming upstream.
PS. Sometimes I do in fact cut/paste automation from a stereo panner to a surround panner. The JS surround pan left/right automation is backwards from the stereo pan too. Hmmm... There's an action in the item right-click menu to invert automation envelopes when that comes up.
Mostly I don't ever get pissed off with the above order of operations stuff in mind. There's always at least one scenario per mix with something kludged to insanity with routing. I used Protools (TDM and then HD) for about 10 years. I don't remember anything being easier. Towards the end all I remember is having to wait at least 4 minutes for a large session to load and getting even more mad when it would load already crashed and make you try again.
Last edited by serr; 02-25-2018 at 10:28 AM.
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02-26-2018, 08:12 PM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2013
Location: New York
Posts: 781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svijayrathinam
Does anyone here believe what I say on the video would make things easier?
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Yes, absolutely. This would make things way way easier and save a ton of time. I've wanted this since I first started using Reaper. Thanks for taking the time to make the video.
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02-27-2018, 08:05 AM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serr
I definitely agree that there could be more coherence between some things like item fx pan and a surround panner of choice. No reason it has to be at the expense of the ability to use the panner plugin of your choice though. The issue is a disconnect between the item fx and the panner plugin.
FWIW, this is how I handle existing stereo aimed pan automation vs expanding that to surround when it comes up. (Either bits of pre-produced folly or work started in stereo.)
And this whole thing DOES look a little messy! Part of this is probably fallout from Reaper having a minimum of 2 track channels. Looks for all the world like an early decision to base things on 2 channel stereo paths bit them in the ass in the long run. Anyway...
First, I prefer the JS surround panner to the ReaSurround panner most of the time. There's still the business of that 2 channel input defaulting to 2 sides of the surround array. So... alright f it. Let's go with that. If a track (or items in a track) have stereo panning you want to keep or expand to 3D adding front/back, insert (or route to a bus) a JS surround panner and then add only the front/back moves. The original stereo panning is preserved down those 2 track channels with the left/right control left in the center.
I'm not saying this isn't a mess! I'm not saying I prefer this to a cleaned up version. Just saying this is a way I've found to avoid swimming upstream.
PS. Sometimes I do in fact cut/paste automation from a stereo panner to a surround panner. The JS surround pan left/right automation is backwards from the stereo pan too. Hmmm... There's an action in the item right-click menu to invert automation envelopes when that comes up.
Mostly I don't ever get pissed off with the above order of operations stuff in mind. There's always at least one scenario per mix with something kludged to insanity with routing. I used Protools (TDM and then HD) for about 10 years. I don't remember anything being easier. Towards the end all I remember is having to wait at least 4 minutes for a large session to load and getting even more mad when it would load already crashed and make you try again.
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Seriously..the JS Panner is not usable for me. I have tried many times..Pls look at the video and listen to what I am saying on the video. I am facing so many problems with JS Panner. I wish it works as it should. Or Maybe I am wrong. If I am can you pls help me to set this up in the way that I am asking for in the video ?
https://youtu.be/8GK_VKlDhV8
Pls take a look
Last edited by svijayrathinam; 02-27-2018 at 08:23 AM.
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02-27-2018, 04:29 PM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2013
Location: New York
Posts: 781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svijayrathinam
Seriously..the JS Panner is not usable for me. I have tried many times..Pls look at the video and listen to what I am saying on the video. I am facing so many problems with JS Panner. I wish it works as it should. Or Maybe I am wrong. If I am can you pls help me to set this up in the way that I am asking for in the video ?
https://youtu.be/8GK_VKlDhV8
Pls take a look
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Yep, same experience here. I don't think there's a way to make it work the way you want. I played around with it for about 20 minutes a while back before I realized it wouldn't be useful and gave up. It's a shame because I think the GUI on this one is pretty good.
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02-27-2018, 04:47 PM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,557
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There's a menu option in there to include the center channel or not. Default is not. You can even automate this.
Looks like a new version of the plugin too. I still have the old one in projects and hadn't even noticed. :P
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02-27-2018, 05:02 PM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2013
Location: New York
Posts: 781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serr
There's a menu option in there to include the center channel or not. Default is not. You can even automate this.
Looks like a new version of the plugin too. I still have the old one in projects and hadn't even noticed. :P
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I've got the new version of the plugin (mkii) and it doesn't seem to have this option. It does have a couple sliders that affect the center channel behavior, but none of them will make it work the way I want. No matter what it still sends some audio to the right speaker when the puck is to the left of the center and vice versa.
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02-27-2018, 05:41 PM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,557
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Here's the original version. Note the tracks labeled for the channels. Note the center set to include in pan. See how the L channel is silent with the panner just to the right of center and vice verse. Even pulled towards the rear - left stays left and right stays right.
Oh my screen shots are too big? Sorry no time to piss around with that.
Sorry, you're going to have to take my word for this right now! Use the original version of the JS Surround panner. Like I mentioned, you can even automate that center channel control (include in pan or not) and switch that back and forth during a mix.
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02-27-2018, 06:02 PM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2013
Location: New York
Posts: 781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serr
Here's the original version. Note the tracks labeled for the channels. Note the center set to include in pan. See how the L channel is silent with the panner just to the right of center and vice verse. Even pulled towards the rear - left stays left and right stays right.
Oh my screen shots are too big? Sorry no time to piss around with that.
Sorry, you're going to have to take my word for this right now! Use the original version o mef the JS Surround panner. Like I mentioned, you can even automate that center channel control (include in pan or not) and switch that back and forth during a mix.
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Do you know where I can get a copy of the original version? The developers website only seems to have the new one.
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02-27-2018, 07:17 PM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,557
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore
Do you know where I can get a copy of the original version? The developers website only seems to have the new one.
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https://wetransfer.com/downloads/ab6...8021615/4ecd23
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02-27-2018, 08:53 PM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2013
Location: New York
Posts: 781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serr
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Thanks a bunch. Just tried it and the "include in pan" option for the center channel does indeed make it work the way I want. It's baffling to me that they decided to remove this option in the newer version.
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