Old 12-21-2014, 11:32 AM   #1
herg67
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Default Reaper trouble since upgrade

I am now getting missing aswCmnIS64.dll and aswCmnIS.dll errors when opening Reaper. I also get "Reaper has encountered a problem and needs to shut down" every time I close Reaper.

What on earth is causing this ? It seems to be since the download.
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Old 12-21-2014, 11:42 AM   #2
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FWIW, those .dll's are part of avast! Antivirus. They have nothing to do with REAPER.

Were your VST paths in good order before the upgrade? It sounds as if REAPER might be trying to load non-VST dlls as VSTs, and crashing, which is what happens when you set the VST path to C: (ie, to scan the entire hard drive).

Depending on how much you have to lose, you could try restoring REAPER's configuration to factory defaults.
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Old 12-21-2014, 12:19 PM   #3
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Nothing to do with scanning c drive. I have directed Reaper to a specific vst drive. I have had Avast for years without this problem.
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Old 12-21-2014, 02:37 PM   #4
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I'm running Avast and REAPER without a problem right now.... but those are Avast files, and it does seems like your REAPER installation is trying to read them for some reason.

Perhaps REAPER.ini got corrupted somehow. What does it have listed under vstpath?
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Old 12-22-2014, 03:30 AM   #5
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Well with the errors still showing upon loading Reaper, if I click ok for both message it still loads and performs as normal. It's when I close Reaper I get "Reaper_host32.exe has stopped working" I check online for solution but as always in most cases it never finds one.

Here are the problem details:


Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: reaper_host32.exe
Application Version: 0.0.0.0
Application Timestamp: 548f77c4
Fault Module Name: ntdll.dll
Fault Module Version: 6.1.7601.18247
Fault Module Timestamp: 521ea8e7
Exception Code: c0000005
Exception Offset: 000337a2
OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.768.3
Locale ID: 2057
Additional Information 1: 4687
Additional Information 2: 468721898cfae24db16d951c627c17b8
Additional Information 3: bbb1
Additional Information 4: bbb13db4045ca87fd66f1b9669b58b39
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Old 12-22-2014, 04:18 AM   #6
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I'm now wondering if this....
Quote:
Originally Posted by herg67 View Post
Fault Module Name: ntdll.dll
.... is the same sort of error as this....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie View Post
"Crash on exit in NTDLL" is usually caused by a plugin.
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=58603

Have you added any plug-ins lately? If not, then perhaps the problem is related to the upgrade. It might be worth reverting (temporarily) to the last version of REAPER you were using, just to see if the problem still occurs.

Edit: Not that I pretend to understand this stuff, but it might also be worth downloading the "missing" dlls and putting them in your system directory:

http://www.download-a-dll.com/detail...nis64.dll.html

http://www.dll-found.com/aswcmnis.dll_download.html

Last edited by Fex; 12-22-2014 at 04:38 AM.
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Old 12-22-2014, 07:07 AM   #7
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Just so you know... Reaper's bridge is involved, copied from the crash report posted above...

reaper_host32.exe

There is probably a 'bridged' plugin that does not like being bridged.


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Old 12-22-2014, 03:55 PM   #8
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And how do i roll back Reaper to an earlier version please?
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Old 12-22-2014, 05:15 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herg67 View Post
And how do i roll back Reaper to an earlier version please?
You can find the 'old' versions here...

http://www.cockos.com/reaper/download-old.php.

Pick the version you want and install it, simple as that!

Enjoy.


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Old 12-23-2014, 01:57 AM   #10
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Thanks. Rolling back hasn't fixed the issue

Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: reaper_host32.exe
Application Version: 0.0.0.0
Application Timestamp: 545d2456
Fault Module Name: ntdll.dll
Fault Module Version: 6.1.7601.18247
Fault Module Timestamp: 521ea8e7
Exception Code: c0000005
Exception Offset: 000337a2
OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.768.3
Locale ID: 2057
Additional Information 1: 4687
Additional Information 2: 468721898cfae24db16d951c627c17b8
Additional Information 3: 1058
Additional Information 4: 10586a88e0d5d59d66b4fe8eee98478f
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Old 12-23-2014, 02:20 AM   #11
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I also use an older version (4.731), because it´s more stable.
The new version seems to have issues with some plugins all of a sudden.
I suppose that´s depending on your specific pc/processor, so it´s probably not
an issue for everybody.

WIN 7 / 64 bit, 8 GB Ram
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Old 12-23-2014, 05:53 AM   #12
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A thought: When you did the roll back, did you remove all of your earlier install?
This could easily be something else that changed at the same time as you updated that has somehow hung on in your existing ini file.

Worth a try opening project using factory default settings too.
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Old 12-23-2014, 10:37 AM   #13
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- For the crashes on exit (still a good time for a crash), try checking or unchecking (depending on its current state) Preferences->Plug-ins->VST->"Allow complete unload of VST plug-ins...".

- Unfortunately the crash log doesn't point to the actual culprit but the reason for the crash is likely a (possibly buggy) 32-bit plug-in. The easiest thing to do would be to post a list of all 32-bit plug-ins used by the project so we can drop an informed guess about what plug-ins you should remove first in order to find the offending one.

Dumping some general tl;dr about that here:

Crashes in random modules after a REAPER update is more often than not caused by the signature misbehavior of non-threadsafe/heap corrupting plug-ins, often some old freebie made with some "save-as-VST" environment. It's just as typical that rolling back to the previous version doesn't fix it (which it should most times if REAPER were the culprit). Confusingly, this often happens after a REAPER update but it also happens after updating anything else, or after some other, unnoticed change under the hood of your computer (e.g. automatic Windows updates, changing some setting in an unrelated application etc.).

Why is this? It has to do with the way memory is used. Years ago I wrote some stupid and horribly incorrect explanation, it went like this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by My Memory (haha)

First off, you need to know that memory addressing is (for the most part) not absolute ("#5 Memory Lane"), it's relative ("the first empty house at Memory Lane"), so anyone applying for residency at "Memory Lane" is getting assigned to the next empty building lot or house in that road. Imagine a process is a bit like a hotel, and the "REAPER Inn" gets "5 Memory Lane" assigned for its operations.

Let's say "Mr. A. Plugin" lives in the "REAPER Inn" and similar to a hotel, he doesn't get a particular (absolute) room all the time, he gets assigned to the (relative) next free room for this type of guests at the reception desk.

Since all the occupants in that hotel and the whole road are generally reliable characters, they usually apply for houses and arrive at their places at the same time, so they get the same houses and rooms assigned, at least for some time unless something changes in that neighborhood. Let's say Mr. A. Plugin always gets room #13 for a while. But you must know something about Mr. A. Plugin - unlike other members of the Plugin family he's a sleepwalker with the obnoxious habit of peeing out of the window when taking a nap. This is currently not a big problem though, the window of room #13 is just facing some empty building lot at the backside of 5 Memory Lane.

Now imagine that (due to the "relative" addressing) the whole layout of "Memory Lane" may change every time you install a new facility, and even some small changes here or there can change the number of occupants or their timing of arrival. Let's say for the aforementioned reason "Mr. B. Plugin" is now a tad sooner at the reception desk and gets room #13 while Mr. A. Plugin gets #14, which is vis-a-vis on the hallway, with the window facing the road. Mr. A. Plugin's bad behavior is making wet pedestrians shout at the hotel manager now, but unfortunately he doesn't know anything about Mr. A. Plugin's nasty malfunction. Even when Mr. A. Plugin randomly got room #38 at some point, nobody noticed that he then inadvertently vandalized the archive of the register office next door through its open window.

Unfortunately at some point the Windows City Council may decide that #5 Memory Lane is now the home of the new animal shelter and sends the "REAPER Inn" someplace else, or the "REAPER Inn Inc" decides to rebuild the hotel (update) and gets assigned to '472 Memory Lane'. Mr. A. Plugin may be still getting room #38, but that window is now facing a schoolyard. As soon as Mr. A. Plugin is doing his deed, someone immediately calls the police and the entire "REAPER Inn" is being closed down and demolished. Boom. Ouch.
So what I'm saying is that some plug-ins affect memory addresses that are none of their business, with varying and seemingly random effects. That may go unnoticed for a while because the address is not in use, or not relevant for the function of the affected module and everything seems fine for quite some time, until some change in the memory map shifts everything around and now the random address pee..err...poking is causing a severe malfunction of whatever occupies this address.

The operating system is then checking what parent process was hosting the crime scene and closes the whole thing down, naming the victim (crashing module) at the end of the chain but not the actual offender that made the module crash. We only get a clear clue when the offending plug-in crashes itself or a part of itself (e.g. the .SEM and .SEP modules of plug-ins made with SynthEdit).

That's why this kind of problem is often so confusing, it's hard to track down the actual offender and half of the time it makes something else (sometimes even another plug-in) look like the culprit. Again, it doesn't even have to crash something - it can also subtly affect functions and cause weird behavior of the hosting application, where it can manifest itself as subtly as 'unrelated MIDI tracks playing additional notes you never recorded'.
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Old 12-23-2014, 10:51 AM   #14
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TLDR above so forgive since you are going to have to methodically test stuff, ignoring "it used to work" so that this doesn't cloud the troubleshooting process...

Repro without any VSTs loaded. If it doesn't add VSTs one at a time.

Install a portable version to a folder. Do not set any preferences or VST paths. See if that helps, if so bring them in one at a time or all at once. Portable installs are easy to create, copy, duplicate, delete so have at it.

"Export configuration" from your existing version. Import all at once or incrementally into the portable until you see the issue.

Consider manually excluding reaper.exe and the 32bit host from AV just to be sure. It's not out of the ordinary for AV to consider that cross-process communication as suspect.

Also, don't forget there is an option to handle VSTs better on unload that can prevent crashes during Reaper shutdown.
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Old 12-24-2014, 01:13 AM   #15
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Ok, thanks for the many suggestions. Bit over my head I am afraid but will try and figure them out.

So far I have managed to stop the missing aswCmnIS64.dll and aswCmnIS.dll errors upon loading Reaper (although Reaper takes a long time to load) after checking "allow unload of vsts" as suggested. But I still get the "Reaper_host32.exe has stopped working" on exiting.
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Old 12-24-2014, 03:02 AM   #16
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Exactly what paths are in the Reaper Preferences VST path list?
How many files are in those paths? And how much disk space do those files use?

It sounds like you are running Reaper 64-bit. What happens if you remove any paths to 32-bit plug-ins from the VST path list and do a "Clear cache and rescan"
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Old 12-24-2014, 07:37 AM   #17
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It seems that the missing aswCmnIS64.dll and aswCmnIS.dll errors are back on starting Reaper as well as the white "this program is not responding" screen before it eventually loads.

My paths are

C:\Program Files\REAPER (x64);C:\Program Files (x86)\Camel Audio;C:\Program Files (x86)\Camel Audio;C:\Program Files (x86)\Camel Audio;C:\Program Files\Native Instruments;C:\Program Files\REAPER (x64);C:\ProgramData\Camel Audio;C:\ProgramData\Camel Audio;C:\Program Files\;C:\Program Files\VstPlugins
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Old 12-24-2014, 07:46 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herg67 View Post
It seems that the missing aswCmnIS64.dll and aswCmnIS.dll errors are back on starting Reaper as well as the white "this program is not responding" screen before it eventually loads.

My paths are

C:\Program Files\REAPER (x64);C:\Program Files (x86)\Camel Audio;C:\Program Files (x86)\Camel Audio;C:\Program Files (x86)\Camel Audio;C:\Program Files\Native Instruments;C:\Program Files\REAPER (x64);C:\ProgramData\Camel Audio;C:\ProgramData\Camel Audio;C:\Program Files\;C:\Program Files\VstPlugins
A more readable version.

C:\Program Files\REAPER (x64);

C:\Program Files (x86)\Camel Audio;
C:\Program Files (x86)\Camel Audio;
C:\Program Files (x86)\Camel Audio;

C:\Program Files\Native Instruments;
C:\Program Files\REAPER (x64);

C:\ProgramData\Camel Audio;
C:\ProgramData\Camel Audio;

C:\Program Files\;
C:\Program Files\VstPlugins

You are actually reading in several locations multiple times, plus the whole of your C: Program files directory!!! That is a real no-no.
You do not need to have ANY DATA directories listed for plugin location.
Take out the Camel Audio DATA references and the REAPER (x64) references.

If you have all your 64bit plugs other than the Native Instrument and Camel Audio ones in C:\program files\Vstplugins, this should give you a fighting chance of it all working if you empty the VST cache and re-scan JUST those locations.

One step at a time.
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Old 12-24-2014, 07:49 AM   #19
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Quote:
Reaper as well as the white "this program is not responding" screen before it eventually loads.
That white screen is nothing more than a timer and an indicator that Reaper is too busy to respond to the OS (yet). It usually takes a mouse click during an intensive operation to cause it to appear but if it eventually loads, that screen isn't typically a problem and should be considered normal if Reaper is stuck loading lots of stuff or delayed.

Doesn't mean there isn't something unnecessarily tying reaper up but any application that is too busy to respond to the OS will act that way. If it eventually responds, don't keep clicking or the OS will invite you to kill it/crash it. In such a scenario Reaper didn't crash, it was forcefully killed via interaction.

As Ivan stated those VST locations are really bad ones.
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Old 12-24-2014, 07:59 AM   #20
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^^^^
Indeed, no wonder start-up takes a long time and runs into problems. I'm thinking that this should be the only one:
C:\Program Files\VstPlugins
OK, next step. What plug-ins have you installed for use in Reaper and where are they installed (full path names, please?
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Old 12-24-2014, 08:02 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
^^^^
Indeed, no wonder start-up takes a long time and runs into problems. I'm thinking that this should be the only one:
C:\Program Files\VstPlugins
OK, next step. What plug-ins have you installed for use in Reaper and where are they installed (full path names, please?
It should not be anywhere in Program Files, that's an OS protected directory. Use something like C:\VST32, C:\VST64, otherwise you'll likely end up needing to run Reaper as admin and thinking everything is fine when it isn't.
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Old 12-24-2014, 08:09 AM   #22
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True, I should have remembered. I was just going through the names that were quoted in the earlier reply.

But, yes, it might be wise to uninstall and reinstall the plug-ins into another folder, such as the one you suggested.

Let's see what herg67 reports.
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Old 12-24-2014, 08:13 AM   #23
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No worries, I fear that could be an undertaking for herge67 and not his/her fault. When installing something like NI, parts of the install can go there but other parts cannot. That's easily adjustable during the install (it asks) but still in my opinion too complicated for someone just wanting to make music.
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Old 12-24-2014, 09:59 AM   #24
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I seem to recall that an awful lot of plugs expect there to be a C:/steinberg/VSTPlugins directory already on your computer and go looking to install the actual plugin ".dll" file there?

I think we all have our own pet places to keep plugs, but as always there are many plugs that insist on doing it "their way" which is why the flexibility of reapers scanner is so helpful. In most cases....
But hard to get your head round as a newbie of course.
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Old 12-24-2014, 10:02 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
I seem to recall that an awful lot of plugs expect there to be a C:/steinberg/VSTPlugins directory already on your computer and go looking to install the actual plugin ".dll" file there?
I think we all have our own pet places to keep plugs, but as always there are many plugs that insist on doing it "their way" which is why the flexibility of reapers scanner is so helpful. In most cases....
But hard to get your head round as a newbie of course.
You are correct. It's a leftover from the Windows 95/98 days and for one major reason...

It was a directory that the installer could pretty much assume existed 100% of the time and leave user decisions out of it as much as possible (keeps down support calls). It's actually fine if VSTs go there assuming no VST you ever install there tries to write settings there etc hence the problem.

It was called Steinberg because it was their technology and wanted a place for all their VSTs that was common, makes things easier. Then once others started creating VSTs they were expected to put them in the same spot, again for user simplicity. However, once later OSs realized that locking this down was important security wise, writing there became deemphasized and finally, forbidden. IIRC the documented best practice to NOT write there has been around since windows 2k if not earlier, just no one observed it until it was eventually forced. Most developers had close to 10 years to fix their bad habits, many did not and some STILL don't.

It's a bit of a cluster fk to be honest but that is the reason.

Last edited by karbomusic; 12-24-2014 at 10:15 AM.
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Old 12-27-2014, 02:07 AM   #26
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ok, Here is what I am now left with after your advice to take out the surplus paths.

C:\Program Files\Native Instruments;
C:\Program Files\VstPlugins

I have taken all the vst plugins (except Reaper's own) out of the the Reaper (64) folder and placed them all in C:Program:VstPlugins

Now I get Reaper crashing when I am saving a project, loading a new one from within Reaper or closing Reaper. It is much much worse and pretty useless at the moment :-(

Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: reaper_host32.exe
Application Version: 0.0.0.0
Application Timestamp: 545d2456
Fault Module Name: ntdll.dll
Fault Module Version: 6.1.7601.18247
Fault Module Timestamp: 521ea8e7
Exception Code: c0000005
Exception Offset: 000337a2
OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.768.3
Locale ID: 2057
Additional Information 1: b608
Additional Information 2: b608c90f71e099db7a52b6142cafab54
Additional Information 3: 5ac1
Additional Information 4: 5ac1701818b5c99adcb06f510f017797

Last edited by herg67; 12-27-2014 at 02:12 AM.
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Old 12-27-2014, 02:26 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
It sounds like you are running Reaper 64-bit. What happens if you remove any paths to 32-bit plug-ins from the VST path list and do a "Clear cache and rescan"
It's still crashing on the 32-bit plug-in hoster process. I'll guess that it does not like a file in the C:\Program Files\Native Instruments folder.

(a) Can you list the plug-ins you currently have installed (if not too many), in those folders,
(b) Reinstall Reaper and tell us how the VST bridging options are set in the installer dialogue,
(c) Remove the C:\Program Files\Native Instruments folder from the VST path list and try a Rescan,
(d) as karbomusic suggested you should consider installing the plug-ins outside the Program Files folders.
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Old 12-27-2014, 02:31 AM   #28
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I have removed the native Instruments links and now Reaktor etc will not load into projects. NI needs to be listed in the path otherwise how is Reaper to know they are there ? Reaper still crashing with NI removed.
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Old 12-27-2014, 02:38 AM   #29
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OK, so the problem lies within the other path (how many plug-ins are in that path?).

Try it now with only the NI path in the Preferences.

But I'm slightly confused - if Reaper is still crashing, how did you discover the Reaktor did not load in projects? Or does the crash occur at a later stage?
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Old 12-27-2014, 02:41 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
OK, so the problem lies within the other path (how many plug-ins are in that path?).

Try it now with only the NI path in the Preferences.

But I'm slightly confused - if Reaper is still crashing, how did you discover the Reaktor did not load in projects? Or does the crash occur at a later stage?
That is correct, it seems to crash or give me that 32.exe error after opening.

Ok, I think we are getting somewhere because after taking out the vst folder path the error has gone so it must be in my vst folder.

Even stranger, I popped the vst folder path back in expecting the same crashes, error and it seems to be running back to normal with no errors. But then I opened another project and the same error so it is something in some projects and not others. The task now is finding out which it is.

Last edited by herg67; 12-27-2014 at 02:49 AM.
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Old 12-27-2014, 03:10 AM   #31
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Quote:
(how many plug-ins are in that path?)
And what are they?

Try opening that project you mentioned with the FX offline (a check box in the File > Open project dialogue window) and bringing the Fx on-line one at a time.
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Old 12-27-2014, 07:10 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
I seem to recall that an awful lot of plugs expect there to be a C:/steinberg/VSTPlugins directory already on your computer and go looking to install the actual plugin ".dll" file there?
Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
You are correct.
Ivan is not entirely correct, and a small correction is necessary to make sense of Karbo's informative response.

That default location is not C:/steinberg/VSTPlugins - the Steinberg directory is created in C:/Program Files (x86).
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Old 12-27-2014, 07:41 AM   #33
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Here is a screenshot of my vst path. I have to have the Camel Alchemy .dll outside the main folder for some reason as it won't work otherwise despite it having the .dll in it's main folder also.

Sorry the image is too small but I am saving in Windows paint which looks bigger in that. No idea how to re-size it. You will have to magnify it.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg VST path.jpg (7.9 KB, 69 views)

Last edited by herg67; 12-27-2014 at 07:44 AM. Reason: Wrong jpeg
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Old 12-27-2014, 10:35 AM   #34
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Sorry, can't read it.

Did you try what I suggested?
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Old 12-27-2014, 10:45 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fex View Post
Ivan is not entirely correct, and a small correction is necessary to make sense of Karbo's informative response.

That default location is not C:/steinberg/VSTPlugins - the Steinberg directory is created in C:/Program Files (x86).

Slip of the finger which I, too, had missed.
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Old 12-27-2014, 12:25 PM   #36
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Sorry, can't read it.

Did you try what I suggested?
I am away from my pc at the moment but I will try what you suggested and see how I get on thanks.
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Old 12-28-2014, 04:44 AM   #37
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At the moment I am having trouble with Broadcast and Magneto plugins (compressor and enhancer) They have worked fine until now. I put their .dll files in the vst plugin folders and when in Reaper I can't see the interface, just the mixing sliders. I re-scan and then I can see them. Save the project. close Reaper-open Reaper with the same project and again they do not show. I place them in the REAPER (x64) plugins folder. Close and open reaper again and I get the message "Broadcast and Magneto are missing.

Where am I supposed to put these .dll's ? It's almost rocket science compared to how Cubase SX3 was for me.
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Old 12-28-2014, 06:55 AM   #38
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Installation of some VSTs involves running the installer rather than just moving the dll. Other files might need to be referenced at specific locations. Changes might be made to the registry. If the correct installation procedure is not followed, the outcome will be much the same regardless of the DAW.
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Old 12-28-2014, 10:38 AM   #39
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Installation of some VSTs involves running the installer rather than just moving the dll. Other files might need to be referenced at specific locations. Changes might be made to the registry. If the correct installation procedure is not followed, the outcome will be much the same regardless of the DAW.
Why has it been no trouble in the same place (before I moved it) and then suddenly it can't read it ?
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Old 12-28-2014, 10:49 AM   #40
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If Cubase can load them (and they are not locked specifically to Cubase) then Reaper can load them.

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I am having trouble with Broadcast and Magneto plugins (compressor and enhancer) They have worked fine until now.
Can you recall what changed before the problems started?
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