Old 07-22-2018, 08:37 AM   #41
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The Expansion Pack Crossgrade is AUD$101. That's a fair bit cheaper than SamplePack3 but are they comparable products?
Not comparable really. Sampletank3 is a sampler virtual instrument and would be directly comparable to Structure which is the sampler included in the AIR IEP collection. On that comparison alone, perhaps Sampletank3 is more flexible and expandable. I've not used Sampletank since way back when, but I can say that even as a Komplete 11 owner, the libraries in Structure make regular appearances in mixes coming out my studio. Particularly the orchestral sounds, I really like a lot of them. Size wise I think Sampletank3 and Structure are similar, about 35Gb.

Of course AIR IEP comes with a lot more than just a sampler. Highlights for me include :

Hybrid Synthesizer - I really rate this. I'm very much a synth programmer too and not only does this sound great, but it's very flexible with subtractive and wavetable oscillators, flexible modulation, sequencers, arps and fx. It also comes with a vast preset library, that's surprisingly free of filler.

DB33 & Velvet - You'll have Hammond, Rhodes, Wurlis etc cover with this and I rate the DB33 up there with the late B4. Velvet is comparable to the quality of EPs in Kontakt's stock library in my opinion.

All the other stuff is of similar quality and DON'T underestimate the FX plugins. Though not graphically seducing, they are very musical and many are "go to" plug-ins for me.

There's a few bugs here and there, but nothing major and I believe it's all still being supported and maintained. I actually have this theory that because most of it was Protools only on release it kind of went under the radar a bit. Within the Protools community, this stuff was always well respected.

Is Komplete better ? I'm afraid so, but AIR IEP is a great beginning partner to Reaper for a very very low price and if you're like me it still gets tons of use even with Komplete.

All one mans opinion of course.
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Old 07-22-2018, 08:57 AM   #42
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+ simplicity is always a great tool!
for me,the nnxt works wonders for years--very simple,elegant+powerfull.=jobs done.
there is a world of sonic shapers now-that's brilliant to have choices,but as suggested,the choices become less with familiarality,complexity+sensible working flows.glhf knocking yrself out.
obviously the wallet will decide for you.
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Old 07-22-2018, 09:02 AM   #43
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Lastly, I personally don't recommend you go with middle-of-the-road plugins like SampleTank though. No offense. My hard drives have been cluttered withe plugins like that over the years because I got something at a "good deal." And I don't use them now at all. Yes, it's a good value at $99 for sure, and if you're happy with those sounds, then go for it. Again, no offense to people who use those libraries. However, there's absolutely *nothing* special about it or its libraries or its feature set. It's shooting for the middle ground unfortunately, years behind in tech, and it's extremely "average." Don't get me wrong -- "average" in 2018 is still a heck of a lot better than in 2008. But I've learned that tons of "average" sounds are not as good as fewer "exceptional" sounds. And you generally get what you pay for -- not always -- but generally. So save up for the good stuff.
While I generally agree, in fairness it can go both ways...saving up for the good stuff is always the best, but trying to piecemeal together a ragtag assortment of free vst's of varying quality from all over the place isn't a great solution either. Back in the day my VST folder was littered with that stuff, and like you said, most of them didn't really get used after initially trying them out.

The beauty of something like ST3 is that you get one stop shopping for a wide range of instruments, all in a very user friendly package with a nice assortment of decent effects. The sounds aren't best of the best, but what I've checked out has been very good indeed (much better than ST2), and for $99 it's a ridiculous deal. Between the built-in effects and sixteen individual outputs, there's really no reason one can't get very good sounds out of it.

I see it as a fantastic add-on, even if it's not a centerpiece instrument in the collection. Need a honky-tonk upright piano for the bridge? A jazz upright bass for a breakdown groove? Some steel drums for a melodic percussive part in the chorus? It's in there. I'm not a SampleTank fanboy by any means, just giving my thoughts on why for $99 I think it's a fantastic solution for someone who needs sounds/instruments and either can't yet afford more specialized solutions, and/or doesn't want to dink around and clutter up their VST folder with a ton of freeware from all over the place. Of course if someone knows exactly what they need and money is of no concern, ST3 is likely not the solution for them. As always, it all depends...
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Old 07-22-2018, 09:34 AM   #44
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...As always, it all depends...
Yeah, as I mentioned, if you're happy with it, nothing wrong with it. And everyone has different needs for sure! Cheers!
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Old 07-22-2018, 11:45 PM   #45
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VPS Avenger is immensely powerful, but there are several reasons why I didn't list it in my list of four (or actually 5) to consider for "the best candidates on the market right now for broad scope, outstanding features, and/or tremendous available high quality sounds." (It might show up in my top 15 though.)
...
With KV331 Synthmaster as an amazing "value." But that may not be the best fit for you if that's not what you're looking for. You might want EDM only, then there would be other top plugins.
Thank you for the comprehensive response!

I downloaded the Synthmaster 2.9 demo but it expired (permanently!) after 30 minutes so I really didn't get much of a chance to do anything with it. But I did receive an offer of a further 10% discount for using the demo.

I definitely don't want EDM only - in fact I had no interest in it until I decided to get serious about a DAW. There are only two musical genres that I don't like (and I don't intend to ruffle any feathers by naming them here ) so I'm just exploring possibilities at the moment before I develop a burning passion for anything.

I've read all the reviews I can find on Falcon and I agree that it does seem impressive but at the moment it's not far short of the current sale price of Komplete 11 Standard which gives me Kontakt and a lot of other stuff.

So I believe that your advice is very sound - I need to stop going in circles and work out the direction I want to take and then save up for whichever good stuff turns out to be appropriate based on that decision.

At the moment I'm in information overload.

I've got Vacuum Pro, TAL Noisemaker, Dexed to play with and Synthmaster 2.9 is not expensive.

I'm very grateful for your time and input.
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Old 07-22-2018, 11:51 PM   #46
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Not comparable really. Sampletank3 is a sampler virtual instrument and would be directly comparable to Structure which is the sampler included in the AIR IEP collection.
Thanks for that. It looks like AIR IEP might offer more for similar money. But it's difficult to find many un-biased reviews on the products.

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Is Komplete better ?
I really need to sit down and decide where I'm going with all this and then I can make a more informed decision. The advice I'm getting here is very valuable for that process.
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Old 07-22-2018, 11:53 PM   #47
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+ simplicity is always a great tool!
for me,the nnxt works wonders for years--very simple,elegant+powerfull.=jobs done.
there is a world of sonic shapers now-that's brilliant to have choices,but as suggested,the choices become less with familiarality,complexity+sensible working flows.glhf knocking yrself out.
obviously the wallet will decide for you.
Very good advice!
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Old 07-23-2018, 03:15 AM   #48
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At the moment I'm in information overload.
Haha! Yeah, there's an overwhelming amount of info out there! Take your time and have fun with it. We live in miraculous times that you have access to such amazing tools. The biggest factor of the quality of your work is your own skill and creativity. So if there's really anything to truly invest in, it's yourself.

BTW, yes, Komplete is a great bundle -- you get Kontakt plus some outstanding libraries and plugins as you know, so that's a perfect thing to save up for too. I had been mentioning ONE plugin in my previous posts, but if there is ONE bundle, then that's the one to go for.

And yes, watch out for sales. Most of the great developers offer sales from time to time -- sometimes insanely good sales. The only great developer that I can think of that does NOT offer sales very often (if ever, I can't think of any time in the recent past!) is Spectrasonics. Their prices are very consistent. But UVI, Native Instruments, Steinberg, etc., they have super deals sometimes so keep an eye out for them and strike when the chance comes. And also watch the KVR sales forum, you might get lucky there too.

Take care and remember to enjoy the ride! You're in the right place with Reaper. I own or have used pretty much every DAW for many years, and I have become a big fan of Reaper and its unique and sometimes esoteric developers -- and not just the DAW itself, but the outstanding community too. Good and very knowledgeable folks here, and hugely diverse in their background.
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Old 07-23-2018, 08:18 AM   #49
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You could get all east west library of samples when you subscribe for $20/month. Those libraries are ultra quality.
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Old 07-23-2018, 09:40 AM   #50
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You could get all east west library of samples when you subscribe for $20/month. Those libraries are ultra quality.
Yes, they are indeed very good. The only downside is that you don't own a license for those libraries... and in order to continue to use them, you have to pay the subscription fee. On the other hand, you can pause the subscription any time you want. But if you maintain the license over time, it really adds up to the other great libraries/plugins or more. Still, it's a great tool, I've used (and own) many of their libraries over the years, highly recommended.

The other downside is that the PLAY softsynth is a very straightforward and somewhat simplistic plugin in terms of advanced synthesis found in others. So if you get this, then a nice secondary plugin like Diva or Serum will really balance things out.
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Old 07-23-2018, 09:50 AM   #51
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The other downside is that the PLAY softsynth is a very straightforward and somewhat simplistic plugin in terms of advanced synthesis found in others.
in case some may well have missed a bit of gold-- free in your fav browser today--for how long i do not know...
it's a real gift,because some crazy haxors types might go looking at the web code for this...who knows..
the tech is there-plz use it if it suits u!
this version is different from the vst/re as it has arpeggiator.>




https://www.propellerheads.se/europa
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Old 07-23-2018, 10:28 AM   #52
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Hi,
Paul from Australia and my first post.

I've been a (casual) Cubase Elements user for some years now and finally decided to put in some hours and learn the product. I decided that, if Steinberg had the usual summer upgrade sale, I'd upgrade to Artist 9.5.

However, in the process, I discovered Reaper and took a closer look. I've now watched all of Kenny's excellent "Reaper Explained" videos and some of the MIDI specific ones, downloaded the trial and decided that I really like the product, support and the customer-focussed approach.

My only reservation is the lack of included VSTi sounds. I've spent the last week reading every thread, review, article I could find on 3rd party VSTi plugins, checked out the sites mentioned here and elsewhere (bedroomproducers... etc) and have found plenty of synths and effects but very few "real" instruments such as brass, woodwinds, strings and so on. I've found a couple of free pianos and installed Ample Guitar and Bass, TAL Noisemaker, Dexed, Kontakt 5 Player and Guitar Rig 5 (free) but I'm still way short of the included sounds in Elements, let alone Artist.

If Steinberg throws a sale, it will cost me around AUD$230 to upgrade to Artist which comes with a pretty good synth, Pad Shop, Groove Agent and almost 3000 sounds (and yes, many or most of them I might never use). Even buying a decent synth for Reaper is going to cost around $150 plus the Reaper licence and I'm already up to the same cost as an Artist upgrade. I've been drooling over Komplete 11 Ultimate but $$$.

I'm going to buy a licence for Reaper whatever happens. I've been a programmer for over 40 years and the temptation to get my fingers dirty "improving" the DAW is irresistible and I appreciate that it contains functionality missing from Artist.

I just wish I knew where to find even a minimal set of good sounds. I'd even be happy to pay around $200 and forget about Artist.

Gear by the way is a Maton EM325C acoustic/electric, 1965 Hofner 500/1 violin bass, Roland A-30 MIDI keyboard, UR22, Schiit Magni 3 and BD DT770 Pro 250 ohm.

Welcome ... developing high end VSTs, especially well recorded acoustic instruments, is not a small endeavor and the team behind Cockos is very small, they focus all their energy on the DAW software itself.

For about $20 per month you can subscribe to East West's cloud subscription, which gives you access to over 10,000 high end recorded instruments from complete symphonic orchestras to ehtnic instruments, choirs, etc. They sound infinitely better than anything Steinberg has to offer (no offense to Steinberg, great company).
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Old 07-23-2018, 02:31 PM   #53
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You could get all east west library of samples when you subscribe for $20/month. Those libraries are ultra quality.
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Yes, they are indeed very good. The only downside is that you don't own a license for those libraries... and in order to continue to use them, you have to pay the subscription fee.
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For about $20 per month you can subscribe to East West's cloud subscription
Thanks. I had a look at East West last week and was initially quite interested. Unfortunately, it's more like $40/month aussie and after paying that for about 17 months I would have paid for Komplete Standard. Not sure that they're directly comparable but you know what I mean.

The other thing that's not clear is how much it would really cost in aussie dollars over time. For example, my Adobe Photography subscription is charged in AUD$ so it is fixed for 12 months. Presumably (I don't know), East West would charge me in USD$ so when the exchange rate drops even further, then it would become $45..$50 - who knows?

It is clearly a high quality package and if you had a use for a significant portion of what's available it would be very affordable. But I wouldn't get the vslue.

Thanks again for your advice.

Last edited by NoTan2; 07-23-2018 at 11:18 PM.
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Old 07-23-2018, 02:39 PM   #54
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Welcome ... developing high end VSTs, especially well recorded acoustic instruments, is not a small endeavor
Thanks for the welcome, Peter.
Yes, having been a programmer for several decades, I understand and appreciate the effort and the quality of their work.
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Old 07-23-2018, 05:17 PM   #55
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Thanks. I had a look at East West last week and was initially quite interested. Unfortunately, it's more like $40/month aussie and after paying that for about 17 months I would have paid for Komplete Standard. Not sure that they're directly comparable but you know what I mean.

The other thing that's not clear is how much it would really cost in aussie dollars over time. For example, my Adobe Photography subscription is charged in AUD$ so it is fixed for 12 months. Presumably (I don't know), East West would charge me in USD$ so when the exchange drops even further, then it would become $45..$50 - who knows?

It is clearly a high quality package and if you had a use for a significant portion of what's available it would be very affordable. But I wouldn't get the vslue.

Thanks again for your advice.
No problem. To put things in perspective, until a few years ago, you had to purchase a lifetime license for these libraries, and one single VST could cost thousands of dollars.

When Hollywood Strings first came out, I immediately bought it, and paid well over $1,600. That's just strings.

You have to put these things in perspective -- with the high end VSTs, you can create a very credible mockup for film and TV.
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Old 07-23-2018, 08:03 PM   #56
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No problem. To put things in perspective, until a few years ago, you had to purchase a lifetime license for these libraries, and one single VST could cost thousands of dollars.

When Hollywood Strings first came out, I immediately bought it, and paid well over $1,600. That's just strings.
I do benefit from a reality/perspective check every now and again.
Agree completely. I've spent a few thousand dollars on a few lenses for my (hobby) cameras in the last 12 months and didn't bat an eyelid. Yet I'm agonising over purchasing some (hobby) software for much less money.

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You have to put these things in perspective -- with the high end VSTs, you can create a very credible mockup for film and TV.
It never occurred to me that synths etc might be used for film and TV and other non-mainline musical/effects activities. I'm somewhat interested in exploring this.
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Old 07-23-2018, 08:04 PM   #57
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in case some may well have missed a bit of gold-- free in your fav browser today--for how long i do not know...
it's a real gift,because some crazy haxors types might go looking at the web code for this...who knows..
the tech is there-plz use it if it suits u!
this version is different from the vst/re as it has arpeggiator.>




https://www.propellerheads.se/europa
That looks interesting.
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