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10-01-2021, 10:00 AM
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#121
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 65
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Dolby atmos on windows
Anyone can t try the dolby atmos suite for windows (dolby atmos mastering suite) using it with a virtual audio cable like rearoute , and see if it work with the reasurroundpan plugin ?
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10-01-2021, 01:49 PM
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#122
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freshandclean
Anyone can t try the dolby atmos suite for windows (dolby atmos mastering suite) using it with a virtual audio cable like rearoute , and see if it work with the reasurroundpan plugin ?
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Well ... it doesn't have much sense. I try to explain why.
Let's be clear: Dolby Atmos is not even far away comparable with the 5.1 or 7.1 (ProLogic II or Digital). It's another planet.
Dolby Renderer works well in Windows and it can work with Reaper if Reaper could have a Dolby Panner.
The Dolby Panner is not made for Windows machines at all, and Dolby Lab doesn't want to make one. Just for OSX. For them: only apple exists in this world :-)
So: who has Apple and Reaper under apple, can enjoy the Dolby Panner and the DOlby Renderer.
The other ones, are considered "second class people", from Dolby.
About the current Panner:
it's not a Dolby Panner. It doesn't produce the objects are needed for the Renderer at all.
To make it possible, Reaper itself should be able to do "certain things". And the Panner should be able to create the objects, and working well also in the Bed.
And Juhn1024, designer of the ReaSurrond Panner, is directly involved in this discussion because he knows well what to do and how. Although it's not an operatio nthat requires 2 seconds :-) Everyone would like so ... but real things are different than the desires.
I'm confident that Schwa/Justin and Juhn1024 will go toward this direction, and in a not precise future, we can produce music in Dolby Atmos.
Certainly this future is not "tomorrow". But I'm very confident they will get it.
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10-06-2021, 03:21 PM
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#124
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,612
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About the export and monitoring in Binaural, after have evaluated the systems on market, nor Binauralizer Studio nor anything else is a real solution to consider.
The reason is that: they don't manage objects.
hence: the panner is useless
So: don't use them. Drop them.
They are valid ONLY converting the BED.
Wich means to have a "limpig system".
A real binaural system for Atmos, MANAGES also the objects, returning a real idea about the position of them, in the surrounding space.
So, if (for any reason) you can't give the renderer WITH the correct binaural mixdown system, just implement the Panner that can directly drive the Dolby Renderer.
Who's interested to get into Atmos, will buy the Renderer, avoiding bridging. And we can get the full working solution 😉
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10-07-2021, 03:37 AM
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#125
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BartR
About the export and monitoring in Binaural, after have evaluated the systems on market, nor Binauralizer Studio nor anything else is a real solution to consider.
The reason is that: they don't manage objects. hence: the panner is useless
So: don't use them. Drop them.
They are valid ONLY converting the BED. Wich means to have a "limpig system". A real binaural system for Atmos, MANAGES also the objects, returning a real idea about the position of them, in the surrounding space.
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I beleive most HRTF implementations incl Dolby Atmos render to a CBA layout , for example 714, before applying HRIR. since individual application of IRs to each object would be too complex & a intense CPU hog, and the gain, probably minimal. Measuring many IRs for thousands of directions is also a hassle.
Hence any CBA/HRTF implementation that accepts 714 etc is sufficient. If you want the nuances of the Dolby renderer, we're back into licensing costs. Apple does its own HRTF thing anyway.
Quote:
So, if (for any reason) you can't give the renderer WITH the correct binaural mixdown system, just implement the Panner that can directly drive the Dolby Renderer.
Who's interested to get into Atmos, will buy the Renderer, avoiding bridging. And we can get the full working solution ��
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
We did speak with Dolby about interoperability with the Atmos renderer. They were very nice and helpful but there are some issues that make direct interoperability (the way Pro Tools and Nuendo communicate in a native-like way with the renderer) unlikely at this time.
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See schwa's reply. "unlikely at this time" but maybe in the future.
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10-07-2021, 03:48 AM
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#126
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junh1024
I beleive most HRTF implementations incl Dolby Atmos render to a CBA layout , for example 714, before applying HRIR. since individual application of IRs to each object would be too complex & a intense CPU hog, and the gain, probably minimal. Measuring many IRs for thousands of directions is also a hassle.
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Hence the reasons for which the Dolby Renderer needs a dedicated machine, even if Dolby says and show it works on the same DAW machine (well they want even advertize it like "you mix Dolby Atmos when you're traveling in trein on your portable PC" 😂 ). But the ideal is to get it alone ...
About the @Scwha statement: yes indeed. Although I don't know if such issue is due licensing/obligations/Dobly-menstruation or it's really technical, in a way that it risks to screw-up Reaper :-/
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10-15-2021, 09:50 AM
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#127
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,612
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Few days ago I got the news that Nuendo has not any binaural mixdown.
And the only one """reliable""" for the way objects are managed, is the one into the Dolby Renderer. But as you said: it's even different from the way Apple is doing it.
Hence yes ... we can avoid it or we risk to kill the PC 😁
Inconclusion, what we can do is to wait that you and Schwa will implement the panner and the renderer, and we can go for Atmos for Music but alos finally to work for more remunerative projects with Movies, using Reaper 😻
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10-18-2021, 01:58 PM
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#128
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,612
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hey jongens ... ik heb een nieuws ��
I saw today that even Logic Pro comes out now with integrated Atmos and with binaural encoder too
I can't wait for Reaper ��
EDIT: the smileys from Windows are horrible ...
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10-19-2021, 03:30 AM
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#129
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 981
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Please developers. We need Dolby Atmos integration in reaper. We need Objects, Dolby Atmos ADM export options. Please
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10-20-2021, 12:25 AM
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#130
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Cologne
Posts: 1,636
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Loguc 10.7 now has Dolby Atmos tools to render Dolby Atmos files.
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10-27-2021, 06:45 AM
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#131
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 9
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Help me @Reaper cause I don't want switch to Logic
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11-01-2021, 02:03 PM
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#132
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,612
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I got right now the news that Spotify should support Atmos within this year.
I will update in case of any further detail
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11-01-2021, 11:58 PM
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#133
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Athens / Greece
Posts: 625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BartR
I got right now the news that Spotify should support Atmos within this year.
I will update in case of any further detail
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Awesome news! Thanks for the heads-up.
With so much commitment from the industry, immersive audio formats are now something everybody is interested in. In the last months I also heard from musicians and filmmakers the question "and what about Dolby Atmos, can we do it on Atmos?".
It's the way the mass works, FOMO. They see it everywhere and they want in.
The day REAPER gets on board will be the day I get the renderer and start mixing in Atmos.
I also have 4 albums with nature ambience on Spotify, gaining pizza money each 2-3 months. I bet if I mix them in Atmos I can get more pizzas! :-P
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11-10-2021, 07:46 AM
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#134
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 169
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I'm posting Dolby's reply to my question here to support our cries for Dolby object panner in Reaper.
My question:
Quote:
Can I mix on a PC using Davinci Resolve (and soon Reaper hopefully) and bridge it accross via my RME Madi card in my PC to a Mac via Metric Halo (with Madi edge card) into DAP and render monitor in realtime? I assume I would need a delay setup so that video could be in sync.
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and their answer:
Quote:
Yes, that setup works with PC-based DAWs that support Native Panning. These are at the moment: Davinci Resolve, AVID Pro Tools Ultimate, Steinberg Nuendo and Merging Pyramix.
Reaper does not work like that - because to work with Reaper in Atmos you need the Dolby Atmos Music Panner, which is only available for Mac.
Please note that the PC and the Mac need to be in the same network to exchange the Atmos Panning Metadata.
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__________________
filmsonic.com.au
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11-10-2021, 07:47 AM
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#135
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcslaam
I'm posting Dolby's reply to my question here to support our cries for Dolby object panner in Reaper.
My question:
and their answer:
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yes, we are aware about this. Hence this topic was born ;-)
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11-10-2021, 07:54 AM
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#136
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 169
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Ya, I know you know, but no harm in a little prod. Cmon devs Reaper has been a leader in immersive but has fallen behind now with no native atmos.
__________________
filmsonic.com.au
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11-10-2021, 08:22 AM
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#137
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 981
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Another bump from me too pls ! Developers pls look into this.. we need a native Dolby atmos object panner .. pls include that with the current reasurround pan
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11-10-2021, 08:25 AM
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#138
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcslaam
Ya, I know you know, but no harm in a little prod. Cmon devs Reaper has been a leader in immersive but has fallen behind now with no native atmos.
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Absolutely I full agree with you.
Just I didn't know you know My fault. My apologize.
And on top: I fully agree also on what you told about Reaper as leader in immersive audio, that's enormously loose terrain, and dramatically now.
Well perhaps something is moving toward but we don't know.
I suppose that all the efforts with multi-mono and multi-stereo on each native plugin, is due the preparation to Atmos, AND I imagine (it's just my fantasy, so highly speculative) they can't use that word "Atmos" because as you know, is trademarked by Dolby Labs. Hence;: they can't use it in any official communication (so even not in the changelogs) till the moment they are licensed.
Let's hope my fantasy tells the correct thing. But since there is not any communication from the 2 Bosses, everything can be thought but also the contrary of it :-(
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11-10-2021, 08:51 AM
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#139
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 175
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What I really hope, is that Dolby agrees with other parties to come to an open, shared standard of ADM BWF files.
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11-10-2021, 09:07 AM
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#140
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sguyader
What I really hope, is that Dolby agrees with other parties to come to an open, shared standard of ADM BWF files.
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They will never do. Their family name is "avid" ... "nomen omen" .. it's a latin expression :-)
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11-11-2021, 01:41 AM
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#141
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Athens / Greece
Posts: 625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BartR
Let's hope my fantasy tells the correct thing. But since there is not any communication from the 2 Bosses, everything can be thought but also the contrary of it :-(
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We can refer to it as the Schrödinger's panner then :-D
Kidding aside, for me, a completely in-the-box solution should be made, even if that means that we have to buy the license as an extension of REAPER itself. After all, Dolby Atmos is proprietary technology and not anybody needs it.
This would allow anybody to use whatever framework is needed for her/his studio. Dolby Atmos, Auro-3D, MHAPi plugin, EAR Production Suite, etc.
If that happens, then REAPER could provide a section in the project properties to choose the immersive workflow/framework and function accordingly. Done truly in the open-ended spirit of REAPER this could also provide for other immersive audio framework developers to attach their framework as a workflow of a REAPER's project.
Personally, I don't mind that some technologies are proprietary, I'm a businessman too and I understand how commerce works. It's a two-sides ecosystem if you see it on its micro-level. Someone creates something and those who need it exchange value to get it. The issue here is how Cockos business model and its customers want to engage in the market of proprietary commercial audio systems. If you search the market history you will see that in-the-box solutions with extra licensing fees are usually what works easier for all sides. Sound Forge did that with Dolby AC3 codecs for years and Wwise has created a very successful ecosystem with solutions for the game audio developers who need to extend their toolset. In fact, Wwise takes full advantage of their own extensions/licensing ecosystem to offer any of the options that extend their framework, are costly to create and maintain, and are not needed by everybody. It's also good for any user not to have to pay any extra features within the core license of anything just because it's buzzing right now and most people want it because of consumerism or FOMO. for example, Nuendo could cost less without the shiny new Dolby Atmos workflow for those who work with the MPEG-H Authoring Suite or work with ambisonics.
Thoughts?
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11-28-2021, 01:50 AM
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#142
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 981
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Please developers this Dolby Atmos native integration will be huge for many people like me who work in post. Please take a look into it
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11-30-2021, 08:00 AM
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#143
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 324
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Here is my idea how i would approach native dolby atmos in reaper:
##For each bed you set up a "master" bed track.
This can be a folder track containing all tracks going to this bed or it can just receive audio sent from other tracks.
the channel number corresponds the the bed type : 6 for 5.1, 12 for 7.1.4 etc
this master bed dosen't contain any RSP instance. instead all tracks sending sending to this bed (or all child tracks) either have a RSP instance with the appropriate ch count to pan in that bed or do direct routing to a channel in the bed. For example you can route have a track with mono content going straight to ch 3 (the center channel) of the bed.
For playback in reaper you route these tracks to the project master track an from there to the appropriate hardwear outputs
## Object track
This would be a track containing in instance of RSP set to "Object mode". this would be just a tick box in the pluign window. it also locks all the speaker output settings
During playback in reaper, this RSP instance keeps working as it currently dose and you route it to send audio to your project master track which then goes the the appropriate hardwear outputs
This object track either contains it's own audio, or it can receive audio from a bunch of other track. But any audio going through this track will be rendered into that spatial object.
## Playback
So now you can work on your "reaper native" atmos project. You can already do all this with reaper as it is.
on a side note: If you are working with a larger speaker setup, you could even route your bed tracks in a way that you "smeer" the outputs to other channels to do something similar to what the dolby renderer does (I'm not quite sure how the atmos rendere handles this as i haven't experemented with it in depth yet )
## Rendering
You select Atmos ADM as Format, this displays the setup options for rendering:
A drop down menu asking to select your bed track, you select your "master bed track", reaper guesses the bed format according the number of channels, but you can set manually if necessary
A "add new bed" button which creates a new drop down menu allowing you to select an additional "master bed " track from your reaper project
A list displaying all your objects these tracks get detected automatically because the RSP instance they contain has the "Atmos Object" ticked. The audio get rendered "pre RSP" and movmment automation also gets rendered as metadata. The audio is mono or stereo (or more if allowed by atmos specs) according to the number of inputs in the RSP instance. May a check box to select which objects to render which not, this would allow render any combination of bed and objects if ever you need to rerender only certain elements of the ADM file.
An option to render through the master fader (not the FX!!) (the master track fader level can also be applied to objects, even thought they get rendered "pre RSP" etc that should work )
Obviously any processing on the master track would get lost. you could consider an option for "render through master FX" but any dynamic treatment wouldn't work as at should, but that will allways be the case with object based audio...
All the rendered material gets bundled into a nice ADM
think of it basically as rendering stems. The stems are either multichannel beds or mono/stereo objects with metadata.
The tricky parts i see from the dev point of view are:
rendering the object audio pre RSP. but in fact, if you just mute RSP and render a mono/stereo stem then your set right ? you could actually already do this "by hand"
and rendering the movement metadata, that's basically formatting the RSP automation data to however the Dolby Atmos ADM want's it.
This is not much different to what other people have proposed. Just figured i would chip in my thoughts.
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11-30-2021, 08:37 AM
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#144
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benmiller
Here is my idea how i would approach native dolby atmos in reaper:
##For each bed you set up a "master" bed track.
This can be a folder track containing all tracks going to this bed or it can just receive audio sent from other tracks.
the channel number corresponds the the bed type : 6 for 5.1, 12 for 7.1.4 etc
this master bed dosen't contain any RSP instance. instead all tracks sending sending to this bed (or all child tracks) either have a RSP instance with the appropriate ch count to pan in that bed or do direct routing to a channel in the bed. For example you can route have a track with mono content going straight to ch 3 (the center channel) of the bed.
For playback in reaper you route these tracks to the project master track an from there to the appropriate hardwear outputs
## Object track
This would be a track containing in instance of RSP set to "Object mode". this would be just a tick box in the pluign window. it also locks all the speaker output settings
During playback in reaper, this RSP instance keeps working as it currently dose and you route it to send audio to your project master track which then goes the the appropriate hardwear outputs
This object track either contains it's own audio, or it can receive audio from a bunch of other track. But any audio going through this track will be rendered into that spatial object.
## Playback
So now you can work on your "reaper native" atmos project. You can already do all this with reaper as it is.
on a side note: If you are working with a larger speaker setup, you could even route your bed tracks in a way that you "smeer" the outputs to other channels to do something similar to what the dolby renderer does (I'm not quite sure how the atmos rendere handles this as i haven't experemented with it in depth yet )
## Rendering
You select Atmos ADM as Format, this displays the setup options for rendering:
A drop down menu asking to select your bed track, you select your "master bed track", reaper guesses the bed format according the number of channels, but you can set manually if necessary
A "add new bed" button which creates a new drop down menu allowing you to select an additional "master bed " track from your reaper project
A list displaying all your objects these tracks get detected automatically because the RSP instance they contain has the "Atmos Object" ticked. The audio get rendered "pre RSP" and movmment automation also gets rendered as metadata. The audio is mono or stereo (or more if allowed by atmos specs) according to the number of inputs in the RSP instance. May a check box to select which objects to render which not, this would allow render any combination of bed and objects if ever you need to rerender only certain elements of the ADM file.
An option to render through the master fader (not the FX!!) (the master track fader level can also be applied to objects, even thought they get rendered "pre RSP" etc that should work )
Obviously any processing on the master track would get lost. you could consider an option for "render through master FX" but any dynamic treatment wouldn't work as at should, but that will allways be the case with object based audio...
All the rendered material gets bundled into a nice ADM
think of it basically as rendering stems. The stems are either multichannel beds or mono/stereo objects with metadata.
The tricky parts i see from the dev point of view are:
rendering the object audio pre RSP. but in fact, if you just mute RSP and render a mono/stereo stem then your set right ? you could actually already do this "by hand"
and rendering the movement metadata, that's basically formatting the RSP automation data to however the Dolby Atmos ADM want's it.
This is not much different to what other people have proposed. Just figured i would chip in my thoughts.
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Great ideas! I hope the devs are reading this.
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11-30-2021, 11:36 AM
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#145
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 11,817
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I like this simple approach Ben. I got it on the first read.
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12-03-2021, 02:49 PM
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#146
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 46
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7.1.4
Hello everybody . I have the following question, can I physically bring 12 channels out of the rapper by assigning each one to the selected monitor? I am currently working in 7.1 format without problems, but I would like to work in 7.1.4. I have two audio interfaces combined by adat that give a total of 20 outputs. However, I still cannot do so that I could direct sound from more than 8 channels. If someone can give me advice I would be grateful. So far I have a mapping inside the ripper of 20 output channels. But I can't hear them.
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12-04-2021, 12:18 AM
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#147
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: France
Posts: 914
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Hi,
You said "two audio interfaces combined by adat" but I suppose that it is rather one audio interface and an ADAT to analog converter?
In this case you have only to set Reaper's Master to 20 outputs (or only 12) and set its hardware output to the same multichannel value, typically something like "1 to 12".
http://acousmodules.free.fr/tutoriaux/reaper2.jpg
Last edited by jm duchenne; 12-04-2021 at 12:24 AM.
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12-04-2021, 01:56 PM
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#148
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jm duchenne
Hi,
You said "two audio interfaces combined by adat" but I suppose that it is rather one audio interface and an ADAT to analog converter?
In this case you have only to set Reaper's Master to 20 outputs (or only 12) and set its hardware output to the same multichannel value, typically something like "1 to 12".
http://acousmodules.free.fr/tutoriaux/reaper2.jpg
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Thanks for the answer! Please specify which audio interface do you have? I have two identical focusrite 18i20 3 gen, they are combined by adat. I did everything as in your screenshots, and unfortunately, I still cannot make more than 8 channels for rendering. And also I can not send more than 8 channels from the channels to the monitor I need. I assume that this is due to the fact that more than 4 stereo buses cannot be assigned to the focusrite control. You can see this in my screenshot. I see that perhaps the problem is that there are not enough physical outputs, and the adat does not work in this version. I could be wrong, and I would be grateful if you can comment on this situation. https://vi-control.net/community/thr...indows.118210/
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12-05-2021, 12:37 AM
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#149
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: France
Posts: 914
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As someone has said in the other forum, audio outputs and render are two different things.
You can render up to 64 channels without even needing a soundcard, just type the value.
On the other hand monitoring needsof course that your soundcard has the right number of outputs, which is the case with only one Scarlett 18i20 by combining the analog and the ADAT ones.
Anyway, Reaper can assign the hardware outputs without knowing that.
So: does the Scarlett 18i20 can operate as a standalone converter? That is receive 8 channels from the ADAT input and route them to the 8 analog outputs without being connected to a computer?
If yes it must work since the one that is connected to the computer must show and use both the analog and ADAT IO.
If not you will have to agregate the two soundcards with ASIO4All and use only the analog outputs of both.
A problem can also be that the soundcard uses an internal routing. It is always advise to use it as straight IO and bypass the internal mixer, but it doesn't change what Reaper can show and use.
As for the plugins channels, if your tacks are set for 12 channels AND the plugins you use support also 12 they must show 12/12 in the routing. What are the plugins that show only 8?
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12-08-2021, 10:13 AM
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#150
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 324
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Also wouldn't it be nice to right click the pan knob and in the drop down for pan mode have a "surround pan"?
Selecting this you would then get a nice "XY" or "2D panner" which would automatically tie to the instance of RSP on that track. If no rsp present then it this would automatically insert a RSP on the track.
Even better: in the drop down for pan modes you would have "5.1", "7.1" etc, all the current options for speaker layouts of RSP. The RSP instance would then get created with that speaker configuration. If an RSP instance is already there, it gets updated to the config you just selected in the drop down.
And you should be able to do this multiple selected tracks.
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12-08-2021, 03:11 PM
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#151
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benmiller
Also wouldn't it be nice to right click the pan knob and in the drop down for pan mode have a "surround pan"?
Selecting this you would then get a nice "XY" or "2D panner" which would automatically tie to the instance of RSP on that track. If no rsp present then it this would automatically insert a RSP on the track.
Even better: in the drop down for pan modes you would have "5.1", "7.1" etc, all the current options for speaker layouts of RSP. The RSP instance would then get created with that speaker configuration. If an RSP instance is already there, it gets updated to the config you just selected in the drop down.
And you should be able to do this multiple selected tracks.
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L.O.V.E.L.Y.
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12-15-2021, 08:00 AM
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#152
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,612
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FabFilter Pro Q3 version 3.20 freely updatable is now supporting ATMOS
Hopefully Reaper will not stay long behind the times
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12-16-2021, 05:13 AM
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#153
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benmiller
the channel number corresponds the the bed type : 6 for 5.1, 12 for 7.1.4 etc
this master bed dosen't contain any RSP instance. instead all tracks sending sending to this bed (or all child tracks) either have a RSP instance with the appropriate ch count to pan in that bed or do direct routing to a channel in the bed.
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>the channel number corresponds the the bed type : 6 for 5.1, 12 for 7.1.4 etc
so for 8ch, this is obviously 71. But which order? Front Side Back, or Front Back Side ? Both are in use on Mac & Windows, respectively.
For 12ch, , this is obviously 714. Similar confusion applies.
For 10ch, is this 712? 2oA Fuma? 2oA Ambix?
You can quickly see that implicit channel width wont work for identification beyond 2&6ch.
Solution:
If there is no master RSP, there must be RSP on any track with ambiguous width, or it must be defined elsewhere like project settings.
If there is master RSP, you can have track with ambiguous widths, since any track's layout is just a linear subset of what's defined on the master RSP.
Another key feature of DA is that you can easily change the monitoring configuration.
Atmos in Logic is a worthy look for RPR since, since its DA is added after 2D surround, like RPR.
Logic has a masterful approach, and can change monitoring configuration.
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guid.../10.7/mac/11.0
Quote:
on a side note: If you are working with a larger speaker setup, you could even route your bed tracks in a way that you "smeer" the outputs to other channels to do something similar to what the dolby renderer does (I'm not quite sure how the atmos rendere handles this as i haven't experemented with it in depth yet )
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DA Cinema Edition does array beds, but DA HE (Home entertainment) does not. As such, if you use a 712 bed, it will be converted to point sources. And use up only 712 speakers on a 916 home systems, leaving 6 speakers blank. Customers are already complaining on sites like AVSforum due to overreliance on beds, not using up all their speakers.
Using specific bed/obj rendering, is not only complex (from a DSP & UX POV), and inflexible such that there are prescribed speaker locations, and you cannot use anything outside of those.
I think it would be best to leave RPR speakers rendering as is since it's simple, and you can use any speaker location (such as HC & OH, which the Dolby renderer can't).
if you want authentic Dolby rendering you can just export a ADN and play it through the dolby renderer.
Quote:
You select Atmos ADM as Format, this displays the setup options for rendering:
A drop down menu asking to select your bed track, you select your "master bed track", reaper guesses the bed format according the number of channels, but you can set manually if necessary
A "add new bed" button which creates a new drop down menu allowing you to select an additional "master bed " track from your reaper project
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The last thing I want to do what I finish my project, is spend more time doing settings in the render dialog. The standard workflow for DA is that your multiple beds are already setup in your project, and the render process uses that.
Last edited by junh1024; 12-16-2021 at 06:50 AM.
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12-22-2021, 03:28 PM
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#154
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 65
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Whats the point
People , the point with dolby atmos is that is a cloud technology,
And work like this : we make the mix and monitor it in a multiple manner , binaural , 7.1.4 , stereo.
Then we have to export from the dolby renderer the adm file , that cointan all the objects and panning metadata.
Then the format has to upload to the stores that take the adm full of object put it in the cloud, and in the other end when the service like apple music or tidel need an headphone mix, for example when listening with headphone, the dolby from the cloud render it in real time as binaural mix , when you switch with a mono speaker, they send it the mono version , when we ll be in a cinema the send the 7.1.4 mix.
Work like this. So ear production suite with adm export and reasurround i think is a very good thing, but don t resolve the problem. We need in reaper the possibility to create the right adm dolby format to upload, or the possibility to buy a connection kit license for reaper to use it with the dolby renderer .
And i add that there is no more way to distribute a mix if not pass by stores like apple music, spotify , tidal , amazon , youtube, and now applemusic , amazon music and tidal are with dolby, when sootify will add dolby atmos support i think will be no a way to deliver a mix in 7.1.4 to the people if not pass by a dolby renderer.
Last edited by freshandclean; 12-22-2021 at 03:35 PM.
Reason: Add some comment
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12-23-2021, 06:02 AM
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#155
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freshandclean
People , the point with dolby atmos is that is a cloud technology,
And work like this : we make the mix and monitor it in a multiple manner , binaural , 7.1.4 , stereo.
Then we have to export from the dolby renderer the adm file , that cointan all the objects and panning metadata.
Then the format has to upload to the stores that take the adm full of object put it in the cloud, and in the other end when the service like apple music or tidel need an headphone mix, for example when listening with headphone, the dolby from the cloud render it in real time as binaural mix , when you switch with a mono speaker, they send it the mono version , when we ll be in a cinema the send the 7.1.4 mix.
Work like this. So ear production suite with adm export and reasurround i think is a very good thing, but don t resolve the problem. We need in reaper the possibility to create the right adm dolby format to upload, or the possibility to buy a connection kit license for reaper to use it with the dolby renderer .
And i add that there is no more way to distribute a mix if not pass by stores like apple music, spotify , tidal , amazon , youtube, and now applemusic , amazon music and tidal are with dolby, when sootify will add dolby atmos support i think will be no a way to deliver a mix in 7.1.4 to the people if not pass by a dolby renderer.
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Perfectly agree.
On top of this ... the only one way to distribute, is to pass through a portal, accessible only via the (only one) free application, by AVID. Not any other way to publish ATMOS content. Hence protocols should be like you told indeed.
I'm strongly waiting for it.
Till now I see small steps ahead like 9.1.4 integration, the use of the word "surround" instead of "Atmos" or "Dolby" due licensing issues. But it can't be uploaded as ATMOS if it's not really produced and licensed as ATMOS as well.
So, for your intervention: +10, non only +1
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12-26-2021, 04:28 AM
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#156
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freshandclean
People , the point with dolby atmos is that is a cloud technology,
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Encoding DA is in the cloud, but mixing is still 100% local like in the past.
Quote:
Originally Posted by freshandclean
Work like this. So ear production suite with adm export and reasurround i think is a very good thing, but don t resolve the problem. We need in reaper the possibility to create the right adm dolby format to upload, or the possibility to buy a connection kit license for reaper to use it with the dolby renderer .
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I agree that RPR needs to export Dolby ADM. This is the point of the thread, but there needs to be a GUI to accomplish this, and that is the point of recent discussions.
If it is not done carefully, errors can arise, see https://forums.cockos.com/showpost.p...&postcount=153
See below for native integration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
We did speak with Dolby about interoperability with the Atmos renderer. They were very nice and helpful but there are some issues that make direct interoperability (the way Pro Tools and Nuendo communicate in a native-like way with the renderer) unlikely at this time. REAPER can interact fine with the Atmos panner/renderer using the Dolby audio bridge.
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It would also be helpful if you read the last 2 pages. Do you have any specific requests?
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12-27-2021, 03:28 AM
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#158
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junh1024
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On Dev it seems they fixed it. Wait for next release. Although it's not Dolby Atmos implementation yet, but just a step forward.
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12-27-2021, 07:12 AM
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#159
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Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 15,750
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We have been following this thread. I had a great conversation last week with the BBC R&D folks who made https://ear-production-suite.ebu.io/ and got a lot of useful information about their experience.
ADM rendering from REAPER is a long term project though, so I don't expect we'll even have anything to test for at least a few months. Please don't take a lack of interaction in this thread as meaning anything in particular.
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12-27-2021, 07:32 AM
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#160
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Rennes, FR
Posts: 195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
We have been following this thread. I had a great conversation last week with the BBC R&D folks who made https://ear-production-suite.ebu.io/ and got a lot of useful information about their experience.
ADM rendering from REAPER is a long term project though, so I don't expect we'll even have anything to test for at least a few months. Please don't take a lack of interaction in this thread as meaning anything in particular.
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OK, let's be positive and hope to have something to test in 2022, the Dolby ADM import/export is something that other DAWs support (like Pro tools, Nuendo, Logic, Pyramix...). Maybe one priority would be to be able to import and edit an ADM file and export it without loosing the Dolby metadata. Just the ability to cut a file, compress, EQ...the different PCM audio channels (Beds and objects) without changing any spatial metadata and reexport it in ADM. Do you think Schwa that this function could be possible at first ?
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