Old 01-01-2015, 06:07 AM   #1
maxdis
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Default Tempo / time signature bugs consolidated thread

Please, let's post in this thread all the bug reports regarding tempo and time signatures, so that devs (hopefully during the 5 cycle) will can fix this longstanding issue.
Important: attach an image demonstrating the bug, and also the relative .RPP file.

My first report:



Bug: As you can see, if I move Region 2 (with the 7/8 time signature) and then I bring it back in its original position, two not needed time signature marker are created after the region, and the item in Region 2 is warped (if I set the item timebase to "Time", the item is not warped, but the not needed time signature markers are still there).
The problem is much worser when there are other items or regions after the region you're moving, because these will be affected in unpredictable ways, and often you'll notice that only after hours/days of workin on the project.

Expected behaviour: Time signature marker shouldn't be created if I'm bringing back the region to its original position; also, the item shouldn't be warped.


attached project:
Attached Files
File Type: rpp bugtempo.RPP (7.9 KB, 117 views)
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Last edited by maxdis; 01-01-2015 at 09:01 AM.
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Old 01-01-2015, 06:34 AM   #2
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You can't expect moving the region back to original position will get everything back to original state.
Only undo can be expected to work like that.

I agree the 6/8 time-sig is puzzling,
and the warp should not be created.

And I can confirm odd behaviour for these matters,
so thanks for bringing it up
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Old 01-01-2015, 06:57 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Sun View Post
You can't expect moving the region back to original position will get everything back to original state.
Only undo can be expected to work like that.
So how come Cubase or S1 doesn't have any problems with things like this?
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Old 01-01-2015, 07:44 AM   #4
Evan
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Allow me to add two useful timeline/tempo FRs:

(1) Fixed-spacing grid, irrespective of tempo

http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=2502


(2) Toggle follow/unfollow tempo map

http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=2385


Would be fantastic to have in R5 final, along with the bugfixes mentioned here.
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Old 01-01-2015, 07:58 AM   #5
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With complex tempo mapping I frequently get "double" clicks (the attached gif in this thread shows the click source).

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=141146
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Old 01-01-2015, 09:04 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Sun View Post
You can't expect moving the region back to original position will get everything back to original state.
Actually I'm expecting exactly that, because I'm not changing anything

Quote:
And I can confirm odd behaviour for these matters,
so thanks for bringing it up
You're welcome :-)
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Old 01-01-2015, 09:53 AM   #7
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Maxdis, I'm not getting quite the same behavior here. I can see the leftover time sig and tempo marker, but the item moved with the region behaves differently depending if you have regions 1&2 overlapping like they are in your project and how far they are moved back and forth.
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Old 01-01-2015, 10:08 AM   #8
maxdis
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Do you mean region 3&2 ? (there's no region 1 in my project). But I'm not sure I understand what you mean by overlapping...
Yes, the item don't always is warped, depending where you move the region on, but in my opinion it never should be warped, regardless where you put in on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xpander View Post
Maxdis, I'm not getting quite the same behavior here. I can see the leftover time sig and tempo marker, but the item moved with the region behaves differently depending if you have regions 1&2 overlapping like they are in your project and how far they are moved back and forth.
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Old 01-01-2015, 10:13 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxdis View Post
Do you mean region 3&2 ? (there's no region 1 in my project). But I'm not sure I understand what you mean by overlapping...
I mean the regions 1 and 2 which are overlapping in your project, R2 on top. This may or may not cause unnecessary confusion and misbehavior already. The leftover markers are there nevertheless, you're right about that.
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Old 01-01-2015, 11:06 AM   #10
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My feeling is that much of the confusion and frustration that gets labeled as "bug" or "broken" is because of "inferior design." Love my Reaper mind you.

1. Time timebase MIDI items. Pretty heavily discussed. Agreed upon by most/all as "bad." Exactly what has to happen to Reapers guts to fix it, I don't know. There's been several threads. Poofox's Bug Report and discussion thread is probably the hub of the matter.

2. Beats timebases themselves. This has received little technical attention. The definition in the help menu is incorrect. "Project elements will keep their position and length constant as measured in BEATS." No. It's determined by MEASURES and beats. This is why complaints arise about items getting shorter etc. Problem is not limited to MIDI items but it is very inconsistent with MIDI data contained within a single item. Simple example-



Everything was identical on either side of the Time Signature change before it was effected. Notice CCs in item versus (ReaControlMIDI) track envelope. There's other inconsistencies. Moving and copying things versus applying a time change among them. For example I could have cut the track in the pic, applied the time change, and pasted it back. It would have saved the item and envelope, but not the marker positions.

Of course, there is other complications. Like, "Remove contents of time selection" and "Insert empty space at time selection" could cause very odd fractions of beats to be introduced. But that seems like a detail, not the root of the problem. I also don't mean to say that what I write here covers everything.

Last edited by FnA; 10-10-2016 at 03:18 PM.
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Old 01-09-2015, 04:37 AM   #11
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Some tempo-bugs:

Midi export is not behaving correctly:
Linear transition
from 46.1 100bpm
to 47.1 99,449bpm

becomes this when imported again
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Old 01-09-2015, 04:39 AM   #12
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Tempo min/max view does not change for all open tabs

v4.76 x32 win8.1x64
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Old 01-13-2015, 03:19 PM   #13
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I'm really happy with the change to Beats timebase so far. Not too much time for pre testing unfortunately.

Something else that "bugs" me is the unpredictable behavior and "illegal"
measures (such as 4/4* with 3 quarters) that result when doing things like "Remove contents of time selection" and "Insert empty space at time selection" or working in the tempo envelope. I don't have a clue what to point the finger at there. I think, at least if things are snapped to a reasonable fraction, reaper should keep it legit.
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Old 01-14-2015, 08:43 AM   #14
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This type of stuff needs to be fixed.
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Old 01-14-2015, 02:55 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Sun View Post
Some tempo-bugs:

Midi export is not behaving correctly:
Linear transition
from 46.1 100bpm
to 47.1 99,449bpm

becomes this when imported again
Thanks, fixing!
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Old 01-15-2015, 12:46 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
Thanks, fixing!
Thanks a lot!
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