Old 03-12-2018, 10:19 PM   #1
Limestone
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Default Sampletank3 midi issues (resolved)

Focusrite 18i20 gen1 latest driver
Sampletank3 latest build
Win10 - tweaked with all tweaks recommended by focusrite.
16g ram i7-7700 @3.6

Audio is fine, but midi is hosed. I can't seem to get ST to play the midi notes being routed to it, no matter what buffer setting I use. I hear an occasional single note, and they appear to get stuck and not picking up any note-off data.

I have tried buffers of 64, 128, 256, and 512. Nothing changes. The virtual keyboard seems to play the notes without any noticeable latency.

I have used ST2+ in Vista for years. Trying to get a new computer working, but I am STUMPED! Any help/tips would be appreciated.

Last edited by Limestone; 03-14-2018 at 12:00 PM.
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Old 03-13-2018, 05:34 AM   #2
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Two suggestions.

Below the Sampletank 3 title (in red) you will see "Part" "CH" "delete"
Make sure CH is set to the same channel as your MIDI device for each and every sound.

Check if your chosen instrument sound is in a specific keyboard zone. If it is make sure your MIDI keyboard is transposed to work in the right range.
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Old 03-13-2018, 06:05 AM   #3
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If you're using VST3 try VST2 version.
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Old 03-13-2018, 07:04 AM   #4
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Thanks, Stella and Softsynth.

Yes, CH is set the same as midi device.

I will try VST2.

I currently cannot even play back a pre-recorded simple midi file inserted into Reaper and routed to ST3. It's hard to describe, but it's like ST3 is being fed billions of bytes of midi data and cannot keep up.
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Old 03-13-2018, 07:15 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Limestone View Post
Thanks, Stella and Softsynth.

Yes, CH is set the same as midi device.

I will try VST2.

I currently cannot even play back a pre-recorded simple midi file inserted into Reaper and routed to ST3. It's hard to describe, but it's like ST3 is being fed billions of bytes of midi data and cannot keep up.
Did you try re-downloading the program and reinstalling it?

VST3 working fine here in Reaper.

Make sure the Reaper track is operating on MIDI: All channels.

Make sure you are using the latest version of ST3 and the latest sound library update:
http://www.ikmultimedia.com/userarea/my-products/
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Old 03-13-2018, 09:06 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Softsynth View Post
Did you try re-downloading the program and reinstalling it?

VST3 working fine here in Reaper.

Make sure the Reaper track is operating on MIDI: All channels.

Make sure you are using the latest version of ST3 and the latest sound library update:
http://www.ikmultimedia.com/userarea/my-products/
Thanks for replying. Yes, midi is set to all channels. I am up to date with IK on all software.

I have been on the phone and view session with both sweetwater tech and focusrite tech. They are STUMPED. I am at a loss. I need help.
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Old 03-13-2018, 09:16 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Limestone View Post
Thanks for replying. Yes, midi is set to all channels. I am up to date with IK on all software.

I have been on the phone and view session with both sweetwater tech and focusrite tech. They are STUMPED. I am at a loss. I need help.
So you've tried VST2?
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Old 03-13-2018, 02:45 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Softsynth View Post
Did you try re-downloading the program and reinstalling it?
VST3 working fine here in Reaper.
Since which version of Reaper?
It was NOT working not so long time ago (for me and I have seen related threads that I was not alone)
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Old 03-13-2018, 03:20 PM   #9
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VST2 won't load. I have not tried to troubleshoot that yet.

This is a brand new build, so reaper version is 5.77
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Old 03-13-2018, 03:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
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Since which version of Reaper?
It was NOT working not so long time ago (for me and I have seen related threads that I was not alone)
The 3.6.4 update way back in 2016 caused BSODs, even in standalone if I recall.

All of the version updates of Reaper were fine I believe. However I cannot say with absolute certainty. I probably tried each and every Reaper update with ST3; some Reaper updates lasted only a few days when bugs were found in Reaper - it's possible I didn't try it with some of those, though unlikely.
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Old 03-13-2018, 04:31 PM   #11
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I have just tried VST3 in 5.77 and it is working.
I use Reaper not so long, I think from 5.70. And I remember some VST3 related fixes in the changelog.

In any case, VST2 was/is working fine. If it won't load, then I also think that re-installation is the best advice.
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Old 03-13-2018, 05:26 PM   #12
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I also recommend trying to get the VST 2 version to work. I confirmed a bug in the VST 3 version back in 2015 that has been discussed on IKM forum and made a formal report to IKM but they never fixed it. Single notes would pass to the VST 3 but polyphonic would not. If that is your issue I think your only hope is getting the VST 2 to work.

EDIT- I have not used ST3 in quite a while. I just checked and the VST3 version polyphony DID work fine in both Reaper and FLStudio. I have not updated ST3 in over a year either, so there must have been some other gremlin that affected a few users.

Last edited by BrianL; 03-13-2018 at 07:13 PM. Reason: New info
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Old 03-13-2018, 10:31 PM   #13
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I offer my sincere thanks to all of you. This is an incredible community.

Regarding VST2, I got as far as getting ST2.x to load as a stand-alone within this new build. But it will not load as a VSTi within reaper yet. I had a recording session today and a gig tonight, so I just haven't had a chance to troubleshoot it any further.

I was helped on the phone this morning. The Sweetwater.com tech gave up and asked me to contact focusrite. The focusrite tech wasn't familiar with reaper and gave up. I have not yet heard back from IK tech support after filing a help ticket with them. No solution so far.

I am becoming more and more fearful that there is something going on deep in the "belly of the beast". I don't currently have an extra sound card to test with, but I may have to come up with one to eliminate scarlett 18i20 as the culprit.

BrianL, the behavior of the midi notes is so random and bizarre that it never crossed my mind that when I hear random notes, they are only single notes - I have never heard even one 2 or 3 note chord. So thanks for the heads-up on that issue. I believe now that it very well may be a polyphonic issue.
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Old 03-14-2018, 03:52 AM   #14
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Can I summarise:
-- ST2.x standalone works OK,
-- ST2.x plug-in does not load in Reaper 5.77,
-- ST3 VST3 plug-in ignores incoming MIDI,
-- ST2 VSTi does not load.

Have I got that right? If so:
(a) ST2.x is a 32-bit program and plug-in, so it will only load in Reaper 64-bit if the 32-bridging module is installed too.
(b) Does ST3 standalone program work OK?
(c) exactly what happens when you try to load ST3ST2 VSTi plug-in? Any error messages?

Perhaps you could compress a simple problem project file (no audio samples needed) into a ZIP file and post it here as an attachment so that we can have a look at it and see what's (not) happening?

How to post attachments (in Post #1)
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Old 03-14-2018, 06:46 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
Can I summarise:
-- ST2.x standalone works OK,
-- ST2.x plug-in does not load in Reaper 5.77,
-- ST3 VST3 plug-in ignores incoming MIDI,
-- ST2 VSTi does not load.

Have I got that right? If so:
(a) ST2.x is a 32-bit program and plug-in, so it will only load in Reaper 64-bit if the 32-bridging module is installed too.
(b) Does ST3 standalone program work OK?
(c) exactly what happens when you try to load ST3 VSTi plug-in? Any error messages?

Perhaps you could compress a simple problem project file (no audio samples needed) into a ZIP file and post it here as an attachment so that we can have a look at it and see what's (not) happening?

How to post attachments (in Post #1)
Thanks, Darkstar!

Reaper bridging is currently set to automatic.

ST3 stand-alone loads, but midi performance issues are still bad. Can it be assumed that this eliminates reaper as the problem and points to win10 or focusrite?

There are NO error messages when loading ST3 VSTi plugin.

I am busy this morning, but sometime today I will upload a project.
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Old 03-14-2018, 07:00 AM   #16
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^^^
That does really rule out Reaper.

And I should have asked:
(c) exactly what happens when you try to load ST3 ST2 VSTi plug-in? Any error messages? (fixed in my earlier post)

How are you getting the MIDI into your computer? Via the Focusrite? Can you connect the MIDI keyboard (which one, by the way?) directly (via USB)?
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Old 03-14-2018, 09:21 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
^^^
That does really rule out Reaper.

And I should have asked:
(c) exactly what happens when you try to load ST3 ST2 VSTi plug-in? Any error messages? (fixed in my earlier post)

How are you getting the MIDI into your computer? Via the Focusrite? Can you connect the MIDI keyboard (which one, by the way?) directly (via USB)?
Zip file uploaded.

Yes, the message states that ST2 was unable to be loaded - no additional information. I am in the process right now of reinstalling ST2.

Here is some new information as of this morning (I don't think we can rule out reaper) - I can load ST3 as a standalone, route my midi keyboard controller through and old midisport 4x4 (not focusrite), and midi response is as it should be with complete polyphany. Within reaper as a VSTi3, it still SUCKS.
Attached Files
File Type: zip midi troubleshooting.zip (18.7 KB, 8 views)
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Old 03-14-2018, 09:55 AM   #18
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I have ST2 running. It is playing back the .mid file in the attachment perfectly.

But... (you knew that was coming, right?), midi keyboard input is better, but still acting strange - I can play polyphonic chords, but I noticed that when I release the keyboard notes, no note-off messages are received. As if it is still "sluggish" and overwhelmed with data - as if it can't keep up with incoming data.
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Old 03-14-2018, 10:00 AM   #19
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I still don't see any mention of you trying to load sampletank3 VST2 version....when you moved on to describing trying VST2 you also went back to ST2 as far as I can see.
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Old 03-14-2018, 10:16 AM   #20
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I edited your project file to use the VST2 edition of ST3 and loaded a guitar of MIDI channel 03 and drum on 10. It all played back fine here.

>>> https://i.imgur.com/43zffr2.png

I have not yet found any benefit of using VST3 plug-ins in Reaper.
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Old 03-14-2018, 10:23 AM   #21
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Exactly. I tried it as it was and got frozen notes etc. Loaded VST2 version and it's fine.
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Old 03-14-2018, 10:26 AM   #22
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Quote:
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Exactly. I tried it as it was and got frozen notes etc. Loaded VST2 version and it's fine.
A big oops on my part. I am sorry - I did not realize there was a vst2 for ST3. I'll test here shortly. My apologies.
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Old 03-14-2018, 10:32 AM   #23
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Stick with the VST2 edition.

You also report the VST3 problem to IK Multimedia, and ask them to investigate it, in Reaper.
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Old 03-14-2018, 10:36 AM   #24
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Quote:
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A big oops on my part. I am sorry - I did not realize there was a vst2 for ST3. I'll test here shortly. My apologies.
I do NOT have an option for VST2?
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Old 03-14-2018, 10:39 AM   #25
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You do - you'll need to run the installer again; it's named "VST"

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Old 03-14-2018, 10:51 AM   #26
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This is crazy! I re-ran install. Everything was checked by default, including "VST". Install finishes with no errors, but I DO NOT HAVE an option in reaper, and I do not find the .dll anywhere on my pc????
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Old 03-14-2018, 10:58 AM   #27
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On the screen after the one above you can select the destination folder for the VST(2) plug-in. What did you pick? And is it in there? And does Reaper scan that folder in its VST path list?

(And, just to check, is the FX browser set to list "VSTi" plug-ins?)
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Old 03-14-2018, 10:58 AM   #28
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OMG! Reaper wasn't scanning the folder!!!!!! I have no hair left...
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Old 03-14-2018, 11:02 AM   #29
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...
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Old 03-14-2018, 11:07 AM   #30
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Folks, I can't express in words my thanks to you all! It is finally acting like a vst synth should. Wow. What an experience. I wish heaping amounts of blessings for all of you.
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Old 03-14-2018, 11:21 AM   #31
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Huzzah!
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Old 03-14-2018, 11:42 AM   #32
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It would be worth changing the thread title and adding "[Resolved]"
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Old 03-14-2018, 02:46 PM   #33
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Limestone,
Glad to see your issue is now resolved.
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