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10-13-2019, 11:59 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,792
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Testing dither ?
Most people agree that dither is a good idea but does anyone have some objective tests to compare dither plugins ? I'd like to test a few if I had a clue how. :-)
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10-13-2019, 12:41 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 11,052
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Bounce a few versions and see if you like the sound.
I haven't done that for a long time, but I did find that in Logic I preferred the POW-R 3 noise shaping over the other options. The difference was barely perceptible though.
Mostly it really doesn't matter what dither you use. All you need is that bit of noise. I've read convincing arguments for both noise-shaped and flat dither.
What were you looking to objectively test?
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10-13-2019, 12:50 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judders
Bounce a few versions and see if you like the sound.
I haven't done that for a long time, but I did find that in Logic I preferred the POW-R 3 noise shaping over the other options. The difference was barely perceptible though.
Mostly it really doesn't matter what dither you use. All you need is that bit of noise. I've read convincing arguments for both noise-shaped and flat dither.
What were you looking to objectively test?
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I was looking at the different airwindows ones for starters but I didn't think I would hear it in my pop mixes.
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10-13-2019, 12:57 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 11,052
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Well, if you can't hear it then it isn't really a concern.
However, I just saw this which has some good examples and a method to test different dithers for yourself: https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/he...cts-dithering/
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10-13-2019, 12:59 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,792
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Nice article. Thanks Judders :-)
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10-13-2019, 01:02 PM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 11,052
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You're welcome, Coachz
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10-13-2019, 04:02 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 2,787
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You can do a blind ABX test.
Ethan Winer did some tests and didn't hear any difference.
IMO - There are a LOT of things that really affect sound, a few things that make a small difference, and things like dither that probably make no difference at all. Nobody is going to listen to your CD and say, "you forgot to dither", or "you used the wrong dither".
So... "follow the general rules" and dither whenever you downsample but don't spend too much time on it and don't worry too much about using the wrong dither algorithm...
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10-13-2019, 05:03 PM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVDdoug
You can do a blind ABX test.
Ethan Winer did some tests and didn't hear any difference.
IMO - There are a LOT of things that really affect sound, a few things that make a small difference, and things like dither that probably make no difference at all. Nobody is going to listen to your CD and say, "you forgot to dither", or "you used the wrong dither".
So... "follow the general rules" and dither whenever you downsample but don't spend too much time on it and don't worry too much about using the wrong dither algorithm...
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Thanks, that's my plan
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10-14-2019, 02:35 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 11,052
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVDdoug
Nobody is going to listen to your CD and say, "you forgot to dither", or "you used the wrong dither".
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...or will they?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson
When I hear the symptoms in a mix, I contact the mixer and ask for a dithered version. I've yet to be wrong about a mix not having been dithered. I'm sure I've worked on plenty where I couldn't tell but it has happened enough times that now I just do it or else print 32 float.
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https://www.gearslutz.com/board/show...37&postcount=8
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10-14-2019, 08:30 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 60
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In my case I preffer to always have the dither plugin on the mixbus and even render through it, this is because I CAN hear the difference between having it and not, but it's mostly because I don't want the mix to sound different after exporting.
Also, I deactivate Reaper's dither and noise shaping. My preffered dither is Airwindows Ditherbox on NJAD 24 for mixing, and 16 for mastering.
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10-14-2019, 09:31 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavymetalmixer
In my case I preffer to always have the dither plugin on the mixbus and even render through it, this is because I CAN hear the difference between having it and not, but it's mostly because I don't want the mix to sound different after exporting.
Also, I deactivate Reaper's dither and noise shaping. My preffered dither is Airwindows Ditherbox on NJAD 24 for mixing, and 16 for mastering.
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I didn't know Reaper had dither. Is that on the render page?
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10-14-2019, 09:40 AM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz
I didn't know Reaper had dither. Is that on the render page?
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Yeah, after you go to File > Render...
Dither and Noise Shape are under the options for Resample mode (if needed).
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10-14-2019, 10:03 AM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,632
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Considering that the only need for dither is with 24 to 16 bit reductions. And for the old 16 bit format - the CD - it has become SOP to master the audio to the volume war ear bleeding treble esthetic.
Who actually has a recording with delicate low level sections and exposed reverb trails and the kind of thing where you heard damage from the 16 bit reduction that was masked by adding dither noise?
Unless there's some relevant element of audio buried deep into the decimal dust that I decide needs to be dug out - a stretch in 24 bit land and even in 16 bit most of the time - I'd most often rather truncate than add noise. And if some important element of sound is buried that far... my mix must be out to lunch in so many ways that talk about dither isn't even on the agenda.
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