Problem recording only certain MIDI sounds

[Homeby5]

I'm not sure how to phrase this so please be patient with me. I'm using the latest version of Reaper 4.02 and trying to record NI FM8 synth VST. I notice certain sounds that I'm creating are not being recorded in my MIDI file. I'm am seeing the level meters indicate the sound being recieved.

I've also tried another track and it does the same thing. Basically the sounds that are not being recorded are like the Synth sound on Pink floyd's Dark Side of Moon, first track. I'm trying to run a fast loop with eight repeating very short notes. I hear it in my phones and watch my meters. All appear good. Then when I stop the oscillation and play regular sounds from the synth, it starts recording fine.

Thanks for your help guys. I'm new at this stuff and am learning.

[Homeby5]

Bump - Anyone?

[Homeby5]

Hello....Anyone

[Fabian]

I guess you have to explain in more detail what the problem is. For instance, what does it mean that "certain sounds that [you're] creating are not being recorded in [your] MIDI file." Audio is not recorded in a MIDI file...

Describe your setup and what it is that you try to do.

[Homeby5]

Ok....I'm using NI's Synth VST. I'll make a tract and while recording operate the synth tools to get the sounds I want on the tract. I hear it while monitoring it through my headphones. I also SEE the MIDI instances on the tract viewer. But when I playback, only the louder and higher frequencies get recorded. I open the MIDI editor to look and even though the instances are displayed in my tract view, they are NOT displayed in the MIDI editor tool. Hope that helps

[DarkStar]

Try this out - remove FM8 and load ReaSynth instead

Does that work Ok or does it hve the same problems that you see with FM8?

[Homeby5]

Originally Posted by DarkStar

Try this out - remove FM8 and load ReaSynth instead

Does that work Ok or does it hve the same problems that you see with FM8?

I will try that later and get back. Thanks

[Homeby5]

One BIG CLUE is I opened the MIDI editor to event view and noticed that the notes that are recorded but are not heard have a blank value under the "parameter" and "length" column and have a very large pos. or neg. value in the "value" column.
Also, this is not an erratic behavior. The Midi doesn't play some of the instances EVER. But I heard it when I recorded and they show up in the track. This will probably be a piece of cake for ya'll guys. I tried to upload the .RPP but even the compressed file was 1.3MB.
I'm working from memory now as I am on a machine that doesn't have Reaper installed.

[gofer]

From the other thread:

Originally Posted by gofer

Just a hunch, but ordinary pitch wheel events look exactly like that. No length and parameter and values from -8192 to +8191.

Plus you see them in main view (as small vertical bars at the bottom of the item, like the volume events at the start of track 10 in the problem project) and event list, but not in the piano roll when no pitch lane is open.

It all fits perfectly to your report, I think this part of the case can likely be closed. To be entirely clear, look into event list again and read the entry in the "type" column of that message. Or open a pitch wheel lane in piano roll.

Means to say that most probably the "notes" you report in post #8 aren't notes at all but pitch wheel events. I didn't think into the rest of this thread's issue yet, just replying to post #8.

[Homeby5]

That makes perfect sense. I used the pitchwheel to get desired results. Any reason why the pitchwheel event would show up but I would get NO sound at all? Again, I heard the sound perfectly when recording?
BTW, I'm still trying to figure how to upload this .rpp file so you can have a look. I'm sure you will see right off what I'm talking about. I did download "dropbox" but didn't have time to open or play with it. I'm not sure how a file storage site will let you get my .rpp? I would think that it's setup that no one can have access to my files but me? Any ideas?
Thanks!

[DarkStar]

^^^
Compress a simple problem project file (no audio samples needed) into a ZIP file and post it here as an attachment so we can have a look at it and see what's (not) happening?

• In XP, right-click the project file, select Send To ... compressed (Zipped) folder),
• drag your reaper.ini file into the ZIP file (You should be able to get to the (hidden) folder containing the file from [Options] > select "Show Reaper resource path in Explorer/Finder")
• drag any other required media files into the ZIP file,
• when you reply, scroll down a bit, open the "Additional Options" section if needed by clicking the double downwards arrows,
  [img]http://img390.**************/img390/2490/r312dsddarrow.png[/img]
• click on [Manage Attachments], browse to your ZIP file, select and Upload it.

You will also find it helpful, in "Folder Options" (on a Windows PC):
-- to Show Hidden Folders and Files
-- to Show File extensions (or you are vulnerable even to the most simple double-extension trick to disguise malicious files)

--------------
Re pitchwheel - Checke whether the plugin responds to PitchWheel messages

[gofer]

There should be no need to use stashbox, as this problem is MIDI only you should be able to reduce it to a size that fits into an attachment. Not only easier for you to upload, but also far easier for others to help troubleshooting.

As we did in the other thread, try to only save those tracks that are involved with the problem track. Remove (not just bypass) all plugins which aren't necessary to trigger the issue. Reduce the project length to the portion with the problematic items.
If still too big, remove also the FM8 instrument and tell us (say by inserting some small dummy plugin into that FX slot) where the plugin was inserted.

[Tod]

Hey gofer, what if he just copied the project file to another folder, opened it and when the Missing Files dialog come up, just select "Skip Missing" or whatever it is?

That probably won't take care of some of the FX though.

[Fex]

Isn't this mystery already solved?

Originally Posted by Ollie

That's because you didn't insert the FM8 VSTi, you inserted the "FM8 FX" variant, which is only the effects section of FM8 (many NI VSTi come with their FX section in a separate plug-in). The FX section plug-in can't play MIDI.

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=94478&page=3

[gofer]

I certainly do hope it's simple as that . I read that after posting here. But why would he be able to hear the synth while recording? Or am I getting the report wrong?

EDIT

Rereading, I find I don't get the report at all .

[Homeby5]

Originally Posted by Fex

Isn't this mystery already solved?
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=94478&page=3

No, different issue I believe. This is consistant and never plays certain sounds. I'm gonna try to shrink the file down and upload it now with only the affacting tracks.
Thanks

[Homeby5]

Ok. Here is the file. If you look at the two tracks, you will see Midi instances at the bottom that produce no sound. This is where I was playing a synth and was generating a lower frequency sound that I heard when recording. But nothing when played back. Probably something real simple for ya'll

[gofer]

The things you see at the bottom of the items in the arrange view are all pitch bend events. At certain spots they are very strange, juming from negative to positive for a single event and back. It looks as if you have recorded two passes of pitch bend action, can that be the case? I have to test how clever Reaper deals with that, but I am afraid you can't cleanly overdub another pass of pitch wheel action over an exiting one (and if so this will apply to all CC messages as well).

What exactly do you mean by "generating a lower frequency sound "? Do you mean by playing a lower key on the keyboard or a momentary change of the synth's parameters or by moving the MIDI keyboard's pitch bend wheel down?

Also remarkable is the amount of notes with velocity = 1 in both items. Are you sure the connection with your MIDI keyboard is good? What are you using to connect the keyboard to your computer?

it could be possible your MIDI connection is messing with your velocities, that would mean it could change some of them to be zero which means "note off" in MIDI speak, so Reaper would think "nothing to record here, this note is off anyway".

[Tod]

Originally Posted by gofer

It looks as if you have recorded two passes of pitch bend action, can that be the case? I have to test how clever Reaper deals with that, but I am afraid you can't cleanly overdub another pass of pitch wheel action over an exiting one (and if so this will apply to all CC messages as well).

I think you can gofer if you use Record: MIDI overdu/replace>Record:MIDI replace. Not sure on that, I always delete what I want to replace and simply overdub it.

[gofer]

On a side note, the item fades you created are (not causing this problem but) not a good idea for this kind of MIDI file. The fade in just reduces the velocity of the first 3 notes and the fade out does nothing at all, as it happens after the last note on. Keep in mind that note velocity doesn't change over the length of a note, but is only "applied" to the note with it's note on message.

Item fades on MIDI are more useful with with short notes. To make continuous volume changes use CC 7 (volume) or - if understood to your liking by the synth patch - possibly CC 11 (expression).


EDIT: Tod, that will kill all other events in the item while recording (notes, other CC etc...), so you can't do a new pitchwheel pass keeping the existing notes.
I tried and as I feared, in normal overdub mode the CC can be recorded in-between existing events (causing havoc) and the replace modes delete all event types while recording is active. So removing before recording a new pass it is. Maybe a new record mode to replace the recorded event type(s) only could work, but it might be trickier than it at first sight seems. (event type is not the perfect term for what I have in mind - it should differentiate between CC numbers as well. Maybe even differentiating note pitches could be interesting for drum stuff).

[Tod]

Originally Posted by gofer

EDIT: Tod, that will kill all other events in the item while recording (notes, other CC etc...), so you can't do a new pitchwheel pass keeping the existing notes.
I tried and as I feared, in normal overdub mode the CC can be recorded in-between existing events (causing havoc) and the replace modes delete all event types while recording is active. So removing before recording a new pass it is. Maybe a new record mode to replace the recorded event type(s) only could work, but it might be trickier than it at first sight seems. (event type is not the perfect term for what I have in mind - it should differentiate between CC numbers as well. Maybe even differentiating note pitches could be interesting for drum stuff).

Aah yes, of course.

I don't think we'll see anything event specific anytime soon. I would think that would pretty hard to implement not to mention complicated. I know I don't mind simply deleting what I want to overdub and replace (overdub) it.

[Homeby5]

Originally Posted by gofer

What exactly do you mean by "generating a lower frequency sound "? Do you mean by playing a lower key on the keyboard or a momentary change of the synth's parameters or by moving the MIDI keyboard's pitch bend wheel down?

Also remarkable is the amount of notes with velocity = 1 in both items. Are you sure the connection with your MIDI keyboard is good? What are you using to connect the keyboard to your computer?

I connect with the same USB cable that I use for other projects. I believe it's ok.

What I mean with "generating a lower frequency sound" is this. I was using a synth generator in FM8. I don't remember the (EXACT) setting now. Before recording I played around with modulation, freq, oscillator and all sorts of things to get the effects I wanted. I DID USE THE PITCHWHEEL TO ADJUST SOME OF THESE SETTINGS. After I was satisfied with the sound, I set up the effect on FM8 to continual play by letting the oscillator cycle over and over. Think a loop. It was a lower sounding backround effect but it was clearly AUDIBLE when recording and THE LOOP EVEN MOVED THE INPUT METERS. I also was monitoring it with my headphones. I began recording the background loop (WHILE ADJUSTING THE EFFECT WITH THE PITCHWHEEL)and played some other sounds from the Keyboard keys with the loop playing in the background. But when playing back the oscillating effect was not heard but only the sound generated by the keys.
Hint, I even tried recording NOTHING BUT THE OSCILLATING loop by itself. AGAIN, THE INPUT METERS WERE INDICATING THE SIGNAL COMING IN but nothing played after I recorded it.
I hope this helps

[Fex]

If the oscillating loop was triggered before you started recording, and if you were recording MIDI, not audio, then why should the oscillating loop be recorded?

Originally Posted by Homeby5

I even tried recording NOTHING BUT THE OSCILLATING loop by itself. AGAIN, THE INPUT METERS WERE INDICATING THE SIGNAL COMING IN but nothing played after I recorded it.

It sounds like the input monitors were indicating incoming audio.... but you were recording MIDI, without actually generating any.
What did you expect to be recorded?

[gofer]

Sounds like you just didn't play the notes which trigger the oscillation when recording. I mean, if you trigger a MIDI note and afterwards hit record, that note can't be recorded, as the note-on message has happened before recording started.

In easy terms this is your mistake:
- you press a key on the keyboard -> A note-on message is sent to the instrument -> the note switches on and you hear sound.
- you wiggle with the pitchbend and whatnot -> the sound changes to your liking
- you hit record -> Reaper starts to record all the things you do on your MIDI keyboard now
- you play around with the pitch wheel on your keyboard and all the pitch messages are faithfully recorded - but you didn't play a note-on message after recording started, so no note is recorded, although the note that you started before recording is still sounding
- you release your note - a note off is sent and might be recorded, depending on whether you stopped recording yet or not - anyway, the note stops sounding

- you hit playback -> all recorded pitch bend messages are transmitted, but there is no note-on, so nothing for the pitch bend to work on.

You need to transmit messages you want recorded while recording is actually happening, otherwise they can't be recorded. There is no constant "yep, this note has been started in the past and is still running" message going on in MIDI.
That's true for all MIDI messages, so all the pitch bend tweaking done before recording also won't be in the item and those tweaks are forgotten forever. You need to dial them in while recording or they are gone.

The signal you see on the meters most likely isn't input, but the audio output of FM8 playing your sound.


All that doesn't explain the weird velocity = 1 notes and the unreal pitch wheel moves. Is that a cable with a MIDI jack on one side and an usb jack on the other? I often hear those are trash at best, better use a proper MIDI interface or a keyboard that has an usb connection built in.


Please do some reading up about MIDI. I believe you need some very basic information on the subject.


ninja'd by Fex I submit it anyway, maybe it helps you understand

[Fex]

Originally Posted by gofer

ninja'd by Fex

lol
I did not ninja you.
When I ninja you, you'll never know you've been nijad.

Homeby5, all is not necessarily lost - look at the MIDI item in the MIDI editor window, and draw the required notes in with the pencil.

[Homeby5]

No it's a normal USB cable. I might have even used more than one since I have them lying around. My Oxygen Keyboard has a normal USB out.

Hmmm.....As far as the procedure of when I started the loop, that MAY be the case. I honestly can't remember at what point I hit RECORD. I BELIEVE that I changed the sounds of the oscillator loop via the pitchwheel or keys when recording. I may set up again (If I can remember the settings) and try again just to be sure.

BTW, I assumed that my headphones would play only what is being recorded by the DAW. I know when I don't set my record monitoring button to ON, then I don't hear anything. Again, because of that, I thought I was monitoring EVERY sound that is being recorded. Could ya'll elaborate on this?

Let me ask an IMPORTANT question about recording MIDI, because ya'll bring up a good point. When using the VST program controls (the ones on the FM8 computer screen) to change various sounds, will the effects be recorded in MIDI. Or is it ONLY the sounds triggered from my keyboard. The reason I ask is because FM8 has numerous controls on the screen that I haven't mapped to my keyboard. In the above example I was probably using the keyboard AND the FM8 screen controls to achieve the desired effects while recording the track.

BTW, you are correct that I am ignorant of MIDI. Until I bought KONTAKT and a keyboard to use as my MIDI controller, I NEVER used MIDI before.

[gofer]

Until it hits an instrument MIDI is that stream of discrete simple instructions. A note switches on and later off again. There is nothing in between that would tell a device that didn't listen when the note-on happened that a note should be sounding.

That's not only with recording and software synths. It's everywhere in MIDI. If you hold a note on a keyboard while plugging the MIDI cable from the keyboard to a hardware synth, the synth can't know of the note-on that happened in the past and won't register that it should play a sound. More noticable: If you unplug the MIDI cable while you hold a note, the synth will never get the note-off message and sound forever.

So you are monitoring every sound that's recorded (well, you needn't, but in your case you do), but you are not necessarily recording every sound you are monitoring. Keep in mind that you aren't recording any sound at all at this point but a stream of messages. The sound is generated later from the discrete messages. If a message is missing something is not happening.


As of your question, no you wiggling knobs on a plugin's GUI is not recorded as MIDI into items (it's possible, if the knobs output MIDI and you are recording the MIDI output of the track, but that's rare). That's recorded as track automation in Reaper's track envelopes.

You can of course get around all this by not recording MIDI at all, but the audio output of the VSTi. That'll faithfully represent what you heard when turning knobs and all the sound that was present when you hit the record button.


Glad it's not such a MIDI to USB cables . Nevertheless, you should test whether these velocity = 1 notes are actually something you play or whether some notes are getting hosed.

I hope your journey into MIDI world gets smoother soon . There are a lot of quirks and stuff to keep in mind with MIDI, but there also is a lot of fun to be had. Promise.

[Fex]

Originally Posted by Homeby5

I BELIEVE that I changed the sounds of the oscillator loop via the pitchwheel or keys when recording.

I don't doubt that you did. What you didn't do was record a MIDI event to trigger the sound in the first place.

Originally Posted by Homeby5

BTW, I assumed that my headphones would play only what is being recorded by the DAW.

No, headphones play audio. What you recorded was MIDI.

Originally Posted by Homeby5

I thought I was monitoring EVERY sound that is being recorded.

But you weren't recording sound. You were recording MIDI.

Originally Posted by Homeby5

When using the VST program controls (the ones on the FM8 computer screen) to change various sounds, will the effects be recorded in MIDI.

No, but you can choose to record your changes to those controls as automation envelopes.

Originally Posted by Homeby5

Or is it ONLY the sounds triggered from my keyboard.

Now, you know what I'm going to say, right? The sounds triggered from your keyboard will not be recorded in MIDI, because MIDI is not audio.

I don't want to labour the point, but it seems that you have not yet understood it, and it is quite fundamental. It's actually very common for beginners to take some time to understand it. So, repeat after me....

MIDI is not audio.
MIDI is not audible.
MIDI is not sound.
You can't hear MIDI.
MIDI. Is. Not. Audio.

Consider a piano score, written on manuscript paper, in ink. Any pianist who can read music can pick up the score, and reproduce the music. However, whether it will sound right depends on a number of factors, including whether it is actually played on a piano, as opposed to a harpsichord, or an organ. The score itself cannot reproduce the intended voicing - it is not a cassette recording, a gramophone record, or a compact disc. If you hold it to your ear, you will hear nothing. It makes no sound.

That's MIDI. MIDI is a series of instructions which indicate how to reproduce a piece of music. That's all it is. MIDI is very much like a score, or perhaps more like a pianola roll, in that the instructions are for a machine, not a musician. The paper roll is not the music, and the resulting music will sound quite different if the paper is fed into a calliope.

MIDI is not audio. Get it?

Now read this.

http://www.tweakheadz.com/how_to_get...with_midi.html

HTH

[Homeby5]

Originally Posted by gofer

You can of course get around all this by not recording MIDI at all, but the audio output of the VSTi. That'll faithfully represent what you heard when turning knobs and all the sound that was present when you hit the record button.

@ gofer - I'm not sure about what you mean by this? Is there a way to record the audio from a VSTi without MIDI? Just thinking out loud but should I route my audio from the VSTi to an AUDIO output (like on my computer or interface) and then feed it back into an input of the interface and record it as audio? Please helps me bunch

@FX - I read the link you provided. Helped a lot Like I mentioned I was using the wrong terminology.

@ All - Yeah, I'm learning more about MIDI because of ya'lls explanatons. BTW, "Keyboard" may be a wrong term as my "Keyboard" s actually nothing but a MIDI controller. I do realize that MIDI is not actual audio. It is a set of commands. Kinda like digital audio is not audio. It IS converted to audio at a later point but technically, it's just digital packets. I was just using this term for this discussion because in this application (project) I am using the MIDI signals to trigger audible sounds from my VSTi and my soundcard. I need to use correct terminology. Speaking of that, my "keyboard" is nothing but a MIDI controller. It is technically not a keyboard. No sound is generated from my keyboard that is referenced earlier.

I am still a little confused about something and clearing this up may help me A LOT. When I record a MIDI track, what are the input meters representing? Are they representing only that the track is seeing MIDI data being sequenced by REAPER and nothing else? I assumed that the meters were actually indicating the level of converted audio that will be played back from the soundcard depending on the VSTi that is selected from the FX button? I realize that it's not the ACTUAL audio. Also, what are my headphones hearing? I thought when recording MIDI, the headphones are monitoring the audio of my soundcard that is the result of the VSTi being triggered by the MIDI commands from my controller. Is that correct?

If the answewr is YES, then if you listen seperately to the two MIDI tracks of the project, there are several places where no VSTi audio is being heard. But the MIDI controller was telling the VSTi to generate a sound because I heard it.

If the answer is NO, then I'll wait for explanation.

Thanks again guys, I'm REALLY learning here! I know I am using the wrong terminology sometimes and will try to get better at that, especially as I learn more.

[Fex]

Originally Posted by Homeby5

Is there a way to record the audio from a VSTi without MIDI?

That would depend on the nature of the VSTi, I guess, but usually, no.... you'd need MIDI to tell it what audio to make in the first place....

Originally Posted by Homeby5

Just thinking out loud but should I route my audio from the VSTi to an AUDIO output (like on my computer or interface) and then feed it back into an input of the interface and record it as audio? Please helps me bunch

Homeby, do yourself a favour -
# Start a new project.
# Put a VSTi on a new track. ReaSynth will do nicely.
# Select 4 bars.
# Insert a new MIDI item
# Open the MIDI Editor
# Draw a couple of notes in with the pencil.
# Press play. Hear that? Good.
# Track > Render/freeze tracks > Render tracks to stereo stem tracks (and mute originals)
# File > Render > Render

That's audio.

Originally Posted by Homeby5

I do realize that MIDI is not actual audio, I was just using this term for this discussion because in this application I was using the MIDI signals to trigger audible sounds.

That's what it's usually used for, but if you talk, or even think in terms of hearing MIDI, MIDI sounds, etc, confusion will inevitably arise.

Originally Posted by Homeby5

I am still a little confused about something. When I record a MIDI track, what are the input meters representing?

Short answer - audio left and audio right. The audio is output from the VST. That doesn't mean that you're recording the audio.

Originally Posted by Homeby5

Also, what are my headphones hearing? I thought when recording MIDI, the headphones are monitoring the VSTi output that is playing the virtual audio triggered by the MIDI commands. Is that correct?

YES, absolutely. (Well.... dunno if the audio is virtual.... it seems real enough to me....)

Originally Posted by Homeby5

If the answer is YES, then if you listen seperately to the two MIDI tracks of the project, there are several places where no VSTi audio is being heard. But the MIDI controller was telling the VSTi to generate a sound because I heard it.

Yes, but you didn't record the MIDI event that triggered the audio in the first place. You triggered the audio from your keyboard, and then you started recording the MIDI.

Read gofer's explanation again. You'll get it.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by gofer

You can of course get around all this by not recording MIDI at all, but the audio output of the VSTi. That'll faithfully represent what you heard when turning knobs and all the sound that was present when you hit the record button.

Originally Posted by Homeby5

@ gofer - I'm not sure about what you mean by this? Is there a way to record the audio from a VSTi without MIDI?

No, you will still have to provide at least a midi note from your keyboard or midi track. UNLESS you can somehow play the notes along with the other data (knobs, sliders, etc) directly on the VSTi. Even if you could it would be very hard.

However as gofer implies, you can record your VSTi audio output without recording midi.

Just thinking out loud but should I route my audio from the VSTi to an AUDIO output (like on my computer or interface) and then feed it back into an input of the interface and record it as audio? Please helps me bunch

When you loaded your VSTi there should have been a little window asking if you wanted to add the VSTi audio outputs to Reaper.

If your VSTi does have multi-outs you can still do this.

>Click on the FX button to bring upo the FX window.
>Click on the VSTi in the left panel of the window and then click on "Options" in the menu.
>If your VSTi has outputs you will see "Build multi channel routing for output for selected FX". IF it's greyed out then your VSTi doesn't have any extra outputs. If it's not greyed out then click on that and add the outputs to Reaper.

I am still a little confused about something and clearing this up may help me A LOT. When I record a MIDI track, what are the input meters representing? Are they representing only that the track is seeing MIDI data being sequenced by REAPER and nothing else?

Exactly, If you,ve got the treack set for "Input: MIDI" then it's actually just an indication the midi data from your keyboad is getting through. I just use it as an indicator that my keyboad is working properly with Reaper.

[Fex]

Originally Posted by Tod

When you loaded your VSTi there should have been a little window asking if you wanted to add the VSTi audio outputs to Reaper.

That would depend on how you loaded the VSTi.

Originally Posted by Tod

If your VSTi does have multi-outs you can still do this.

How does this help?

Originally Posted by Tod

Exactly, If you,ve got the treack set for "Input: MIDI" then it's actually just an indication the midi data from your keyboad is getting through.

That's not what I'm looking at. As of V4 (I guess), the MIDI indicator is so miniscule as to be easily overlooked. I'm seeing audio output from the VSTi on the meters. I'm ready to be proven wrong, but I would guess that Homeby5 is seeing that too.

[gofer]

Originally Posted by Homeby5

@ gofer - I'm not sure about what you mean by this? Is there a way to record the audio from a VSTi without MIDI? Just thinking out loud but should I route my audio from the VSTi to an AUDIO output (like on my computer or interface) and then feed it back into an input of the interface and record it as audio? Please helps me bunch

Strictly speaking not entirely without MIDI, as you still need MIDI to make the instrument do something. But you can record the audio that comes out of a VSTi very easily (no routing outside Reaper is needed, it's one of Reaper's recording modes).
You should try it, it might turn out to be your preferred way of working as it involves a minimum of MIDI hazzle:

- Insert a synth, say FM8, on a track.
- Enable monitoring, set the input to MIDI and whatever else you need to do to make it sound when you hit a key on your MIDI keyboard. Business as usual so far.
- Right click the track's record button and go into the submenu "Record: output", where you click on "Record: output (stereo)".
That's basically it.
- Hit "Record" on the transport, so that your recording starts. Play stuff and tweak your synth on it's GUI. Reaper will record exactly whatever sound the synth on that track generates as an audio file.
- Hit stop and listen to your new recording. You can bypass or delete the synth, it's not needed to play back the recorded file (but it won't be a hindrance I believe, you can also just leave it in and punch in more stuff).

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Fex

That would depend on how you loaded the VSTi.

Well of course but if he didn't have the outputs I thought it would be easier for him than adding tracks and setting them up to receive from the VSTi.

How does this help?

Well if Homeby5 wants to record the audio from his VSTi it would simplify things a great deal.

That's not what I'm looking at. As of V4 (I guess), the MIDI indicator is so miniscule as to be easily overlooked. I'm seeing audio output from the VSTi on the meters. I'm ready to be proven wrong, but I would guess that Homeby5 is seeing that too.

Heh, I guess that's one of the several reasons I'm still using the 3.0 theme.

I see gofer has posted the way for Homeby5 to record the audio while I was typing this.

[gofer]

Please let's keep it simple for starters and not build a multiout routing. Yet. The idea is that he just records whatever the instrument spits out as audio. I think he deserves some simple recording fun right now . Let's proceed after he gets the simple stereo out case done and had some fun with it.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Fex

That's not what I'm looking at. As of V4 (I guess), the MIDI indicator is so miniscule as to be easily overlooked. I'm seeing audio output from the VSTi on the meters. I'm ready to be proven wrong, but I would guess that Homeby5 is seeing that too.

Hey Fex, I checked it out in the R4 theme and your right, it doesn't work. I experimented with all the appropriate check boxes in the Prefs for the meters but couldn't get it to work. I couldn't get the db scaling to work either.

It works fine with both the R3.0 and 4.x themes. I would tend to call it a bug unless there's another setting somewhere.

Originally Posted by gofer

Please let's keep it simple for starters and not build a multiout routing. Yet. The idea is that he just records whatever the instrument spits out as audio. I think he deserves some simple recording fun right now . Let's proceed after he gets the simple stereo out case done and had some fun with it.

No problem gofer, I just thought it would be good for Homeby5 to know how to get his VSTi outputs setup right.

[Fex]

Originally Posted by Tod

I would tend to call it a bug unless there's another setting somewhere.

There is still a MIDI indicator. Look at the bottom right of your meters, next to the record arm button.
When a MIDI signal comes in, there's a very tiny red dot.... which, if you think about it, is all you need.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Fex

There is still a MIDI indicator. Look at the bottom right of your meters, next to the record arm button.
When a MIDI signal comes in, there's a very tiny red dot.... which, if you think about it, is all you need.

Okay, gotchya. Heh heh, with my poor tired old eyes that's pretty small and I'd have never seen it if you hadn't pointed it out.

Your right though, if you can see it, it's all you need.

One little distinction though, R3.0 and 4.x both display CC events and note velocities differently, not that that's a big deal.

[gofer]

Alas, the MIDI metering is in a sad way connected to the width of the meter in the theme. The underlying thing works the same as in v3 (I think), but if a themer makes narrow vertical (or low horizonal) meters, the MIDI metering suffers. At a specific minimum the velocity metering can't be displayed and if you go smaller yet, even the small event indicator is gone.

In the other (wider) direction it can be super awful: If you want to see something real ugly and use R4 default theme then I propose to set a mixer channel to "Big meters" and put some MIDI on the track. Blobbissimo

[Homeby5]

Originally Posted by gofer

Strictly speaking not entirely without MIDI, as you still need MIDI to make the instrument do something. But you can record the audio that comes out of a VSTi very easily (no routing outside Reaper is needed, it's one of Reaper's recording modes).
You should try it, it might turn out to be your preferred way of working as it involves a minimum of MIDI hazzle:

- Insert a synth, say FM8, on a track.
- Enable monitoring, set the input to MIDI and whatever else you need to do to make it sound when you hit a key on your MIDI keyboard. Business as usual so far.
- Right click the track's record button and go into the submenu "Record: output", where you click on "Record: output (stereo)".
That's basically it.
- Hit "Record" on the transport, so that your recording starts. Play stuff and tweak your synth on it's GUI. Reaper will record exactly whatever sound the synth on that track generates as an audio file.
- Hit stop and listen to your new recording. You can bypass or delete the synth, it's not needed to play back the recorded file (but it won't be a hindrance I believe, you can also just leave it in and punch in more stuff).

Thanks, Thanks, and Thanks again. BTW...did I forget to THANK YOU. I'm reading this from another computer but when I get the chance I will play with your instructions. Simply puy, us ignorant beginners kinda think in terms that if we see input meters that seem to reflect the same audio we are actually hearing in our monitoring headphones, then the track should record it.

This brings up a really dumb question.....Would there by any circumstance where anyone would NOT want to record what they hear? In other words, why not have the meters always reflect the RECORDED audio? Again, just asking....Is there a reason that some advanced user would want to see the meters reflect a signal that will NOT be recorded?

I guess my main misconceptions that caused my problems for the subject of this thread and the other thread is that, as a beginner into the DAW world, I assumed a couple things (and probably more) that are incorrect.

First - I assumed that any armed track recorded the audio being processed from the sound card. MIDI or Analog. Of course I mean the signal assigned to that track. Since I heard the VDSTi audio that is dependent and changes with each VSTi selected from the FX button, I just assumed that the audio I heard was the actual audio from the soundcard that was being recorded on the track. Basically I thought this was reflecting the result of the VSTi that acted upon the MIDI instruction command.

Second - I also assumed that the monitor output that I listen to from the headphones is also what is being recorded. Just like a monitor headphone jack on my analog mixer. I assumed that the headphone monitor was the output after all of the processing (MIDI signals, triggers, MIDI instructions, VSTi processed signal, etc..) was complete. Basically what I heard was what I got.

This was a great education. Thanks again for all of those who took their time to help.