REAPER + Kontakt + Keyscape = CRASH!!

[Dannii]

I'm having an issue with a recent project on my brand new DAW PC that is causing REAPER to freeze after random lengths of playback. The project causing the problem isn't a particularly resource hungry project and the CPU is hardly working. It contains two instances of Spectrasonics Keyscape, one instance of Kontakt 5 and one instance of GSi VB3. It also has an audio track of a Minimoog Voyager solo and some pads from my Juno 106 and a bunch of VST FX.

If I offline either Kontakt or one instance of Keyscape, the project plays without issue. I can also replace the instance of Kontakt with Diva and it also plays fine.
I tried loading the Kontakt instance into Cantabile (on the same PC) and running MIDI from REAPER to Cantabile via LoopBe and audio back to REAPER via AES on my Fireface UFX and that works fine.

Could this be an issue with REAPER assigning CPU cores or RAM to Kontakt and Keyscape even though things don't appear to be anywhere near system limits? Just a guess. It seems to be something along those lines.

My PC is an i7 7700, 32GB RAM, Samsung 850 SSDs (one for audio, one for samples and one for OS) and is running Win 10 Creators edition.
This is the only issue I've had so far with this new rig and, aside from this, it is rock solid.

I'm running REAPER 5.50pre3.

Here's the crash log...

Faulting application name: reaper.exe, version: 5.4.9.13, time stamp: 0x58dc591e
Faulting module name: KERNELBASE.dll, version: 10.0.15063.296, time stamp: 0xa0527b0c
Exception code: 0x40000015
Fault offset: 0x0000000000069e08
Faulting process id: 0x1408
Faulting application start time: 0x01d307375bde9f36
Faulting application path: C:\REAPER\reaper.exe
Faulting module path: C:\Windows\System32\KERNELBASE.dll
Report Id: 06b8144b-8a4d-4954-8a93-4916e7b00b85
Faulting package full name:
Faulting package-relative application ID:

[EvilDragon]

What's loaded into Kontakt?

Can you try running each of those VSTi as a dedicated process, and see if it crashes then? This will help pinpoint which plugin is the culprit.

[Dannii]

Kontakt is loaded with Scarbee Pre Bass Amped.

Running project now with plugins as dedicated process. Will post results shortly.....

[Dannii]

This is interesting. I have the project playing on loop and it has now played back half a dozen times without problems with Kontakt and Keyscape running as dedicated processes. I have the embed UI option turned off so I'm getting those annoying separate windows when I launch the GUI (minor annoyance).
I'll try it as dedicated process but with embedded GUI and see what happens.

Progress is being made though. Thanks ED for the suggestion. There still seems to be a REAPER bug here but when there's a workaround, I can live with it.

[Dannii]

I just changed Kontakt and Keyscape to have embedded bridged GUI's while still being dedicated processes and the project is still playing without issue.

I'm guessing this has something to do with the REAPER process and RAM use. With the plugins as dedicated processes, I can see that each instance of Keyscape is using 1.6GB RAM, Kontakt is just under 400MB and REAPER itself is just over 200MB. That puts the RAM usage of the entire project at just under 4GB. Total Windows system usage with this project running is around 6.2GB.

Are there any disadvantages to running plugins as dedicated processes? The double window thing is resolved with embedding the GUI so that isn't an issue now.

[EvilDragon]

Well, disadvantages would be samples not sharing between multiple Kontakt instances, for example, since those instances wouldn't be using the same process memory space.

[karbomusic]

Could this be an issue with REAPER assigning CPU cores or RAM to Kontakt and Keyscape even though things don't appear to be anywhere near system limits? Just a guess. It seems to be something along those lines

The underlying error is...

C:\>err 0x40000015
# for hex 0x40000015 / decimal 1073741845 :
STATUS_FATAL_APP_EXIT ntstatus.h
# {Fatal Application Exit}

That could potentially be heap corruption. Since there are two keyscape instances I wonder if a memory address is getting dorked or if they have code that looks for other instances of itself etc. The two instance idea has zero merit other than that might be plausible where memory corruption is concerned.

Well, disadvantages would be samples not sharing between multiple Kontakt instances, for example, since those instances wouldn't be using the same process memory space.

If it were heap corruption, the simple fact of that isolation may prevent it from reproducing since each instance would have its own heap.

[Dannii]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

Well, disadvantages would be samples not sharing between multiple Kontakt instances, for example, since those instances wouldn't be using the same process memory space.

That probably won't be an issue for my workflow. I can't recall using two instances of Kontakt with the same samples in each on any project to date. Even if I do do that at some point, I now have 32GB RAM so it is still unlikely to cause a problem for me.

[Dannii]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

The underlying error is...

C:\>err 0x40000015
# for hex 0x40000015 / decimal 1073741845 :
STATUS_FATAL_APP_EXIT ntstatus.h
# {Fatal Application Exit}

That could potentially be heap corruption. Since there are two keyscape instances I wonder if a memory address is getting dorked or if they have code that looks for other instances of itself etc. The two instance idea has zero merit other than that might be plausible where memory corruption is concerned.



If it were heap corruption, the simple fact of that isolation may prevent it from reproducing since each instance would have its own heap.

Interesting hypothesis but I'm not sure that the two instances of Keyscape are the issue here. If I leave the two instances running and offline Kontakt, the project plays fine. Same thing if I keep Kontakt online and offline one instance of Keyscape.
This seems to be an issue with REAPER using larger amounts of RAM in one project. The RAM itself seems to be fine though because the project runs fine when running the plugins as dedicated processes.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by ReaDave

Interesting hypothesis but I'm not sure that the two instances of Keyscape are the issue here.

Me either hence the phrasing. It was more of a rule it out which you did.

This seems to be an issue with REAPER using larger amounts of RAM in one project. The RAM itself seems to be fine though because the project runs fine when running the plugins as dedicated processes.

Assuming everything is 64 bit, that 4gb demarcation point should be irrelevant (minus something rare) if reaper, OS and plugins are all 64 bit - assuming the plugins are behaving properly. It may occur when more memory is used (but it's also true all the plugins live in the same memory space so it's possible one overwrites another's memory) but I don't suspect it is because of the memory usage.

[Dannii]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

Me either hence the phrasing. It was more of a rule it out which you did.



Assuming everything is 64 bit, that 4gb demarcation point should be irrelevant (minus something rare) if reaper, OS and plugins are all 64 bit - assuming the plugins are behaving properly. It may occur when more memory is used (but it's also true all the plugins live in the same memory space so it's possible one overwrites another's memory) but I don't suspect it is because of the memory usage.

Yeah. Everything in this project is 64 bit so the 4GB thing isn't a thing here.
Not sure what is causing the issue but it goes away when I run the two big memory eaters in their own dedicated process.

[Dannii]

Bumping this.

@Justin, if you are reading this, any idea what might be causing this issue?