Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > REAPER Feature Requests

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-15-2010, 10:46 AM   #1
-R-
Human being with feelings
 
-R-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 305
Default Midi: Equivalent to Cubase 5's "Vst Expression"

Hi all,

(I apologize in advance if this has een asked before, or this there is already a way to do this. Didn't find anything in other threads or in the manual)

I switched from Cubase 5 to Reaper last week, and now fell that I'll stick with Reaper forever. BUT, there is goodie from C.5 that everybody could enjoy.
Here it goes: let's say you use a sampler ( kontakt, in my case) and use a bank with many instruments representing different articulations ( Vibrato, Stabs, Swelles, etc...). You switch from one to another with program changes, or something else like keyswitches, etc..
Their new feature, vst expression, allow you to: configure expression maps, in wich you choose an articulation name (like the ones listed above), choose how is it send to your sampler (C.C.,P.C., Keyswitche, etc...) and if it's an attribute ( affecting only the next note) or a direction ( affecting all next notes until a new change is send).
From there, when you edit in piano-roll, for example, you can set the bottom window to display articulations, and you choose an articulation name to put under a note. IMO, the best way to proceed.
If you don't have access to articulations name, you must remember that P.C. 1 is equal to vibrato, P.C. 2 to Swells, etc.. and it will be different for al your instruments!! The ability to choose wether an articulation is an attrbute or an articulation is a big plus.
I'm far from being computer guru, but I know it would be very easy to implement, and I am sure this feature would be welcomed by all virtual instrument players. Having that plus the ability to save track templates would be just perfect. What do you think?
-R- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 10:56 AM   #2
musicbynumbers
Human being with feelings
 
musicbynumbers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
Default

I think something like this may be in the works but what I do for now is using double right click you can rename any notes (pref your lower notes) to the articulation name and use them as a switch, you can even save the renamed not files for later use.

Not great I know and we may get further with this is if you can rename cc lanes too
musicbynumbers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 04:26 PM   #3
-R-
Human being with feelings
 
-R-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 305
Default

Ok, I see what you mean. Clever. I'll probably go this route. But if you want to seethem, you must go back to the beginning of your track...
I hope developpers are reading, because seeing what they already did with Reaper, they probably could implement a "Reaexpression" in a minute.

Thanks for the tip!
-R- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 04:29 PM   #4
EricM
Human being with feelings
 
EricM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
Posts: 3,801
Default

Here's one thread about it with lots of info:
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=34313
EricM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 04:47 PM   #5
musicbynumbers
Human being with feelings
 
musicbynumbers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by -R- View Post
Ok, I see what you mean. Clever. I'll probably go this route. But if you want to seethem, you must go back to the beginning of your track...
I hope developpers are reading, because seeing what they already did with Reaper, they probably could implement a "Reaexpression" in a minute.

Thanks for the tip!
You could select all the "expression notes" after recording and using an action you can force them to legato. and the note names are attached to the notes and the keys as well.

Another way is to use free item positioning and inline midi editing and grouping to make multiple parallel midi tracks, each named and each with a different expression cc automation showing. Again messy and your right, the devs might knock this up easily or perhaps in reaper 4 which might not be too far away now
musicbynumbers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 08:39 PM   #6
-R-
Human being with feelings
 
-R-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 305
Default

Wait a minute, i think it's there actually... When you put a program change, the dialog box let you choose some presets for some bank... when you do, the program change number parameter updates accordingly. If you can write your own banks, that's it!!! I can't believe it, they put a vst expression in reaper and they didn't told anybody?? If they could just tell how to write the damn' banks... please tell us !

EricM, sorry, I searched the forum but strangely I missed this one!?

Am I right?
-R- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 01:04 AM   #7
DarkStar
Human being with feelings
 
DarkStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 19,677
Default

Mine are in C:\Program Files\REAPER\Data

There are .reabank files, but can be edited (I've used Notepad):
Code:
Bank 121 0 General MIDI

// A program entry simply lists the program number and patch name.

0 Acoustic Grand Piano
1 Bright Acoustic Piano
2 Electric Grand Piano
3 Honky-tonk Piano
4 Electric Piano 1
etc
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. . . . Inspired by ...
DarkStar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 04:35 AM   #8
-R-
Human being with feelings
 
-R-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 305
Default

And it.... ( Snare roll, please ) WORKS! (cymbal, here)
It works! Notice there's a kind of offset, so if you want to send P.C. 1, you must write 0 in your reabank file, maybe that could be changed? But, well, at least, it's there.It's not as fast and complete as vst expression, but I don't regret Cubase 5 at all, now. That tinny 20 Mb piece of software really outwins any other, it's amazing!
Thanks to everybody who answered, that feature is a must for me

Eric
-R- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2010, 10:40 PM   #9
benmrx
Human being with feelings
 
benmrx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 396
Default

WOW!!!

First off.. I can't believe this can be done in Reaper... VERY stoked!
Second... Me being the total Reaper noob that I am, I can't believe I was able to figure out how to do it!!

OK... the only way I can get it to work is by going in and adding new sections/banks to the "GM.reabank" file. I wasn't able to create a specific .reabank file for say,.. all the violin patches. At least, I couldn't figure out how to load the new .reabank file into the program change dialogue. My only concern, is that the single .reabank file is going to get pretty HUGE, and maybe a bit messy after I've gone in and added 100 or so different sections/banks for specific patches. It would be VERY nice if I could create folders for various libraries, and inside those folders have dedicated .reabank files for say, Violins, Cellos, etc.

And....... this is pretty minor.., but it's pretty hard to read the name of the program change/bank select message in the controller lane. I know I can change the color of the background, which would help, but I was wondering if I can change the color of the text instead. I wasn't able to find anything applicable in the theme editor,.... but like I said... I'm a noob and wonder if I'm just missing it somewhere.

I know,.... it's a small quibble, but thought I'de ask..

Regardless of both issues though... this is pretty awsome. In combination with creating/saving custom keymaps for naming keyswitches,... this is a great workflow.

Now... I'm wondering if it's possible to go in and create custom maps for all the CC's.. so instead of it saying "01 Mod Wheel", it could say "velocity crossfade"..........????

Last edited by benmrx; 08-08-2010 at 11:01 PM.
benmrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2012, 06:17 AM   #10
memyselfandus
Human being with feelings
 
memyselfandus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,598
Default

any updates or tutorial videos on this since 2010? going to mess with it today. presets ect
memyselfandus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2012, 08:27 AM   #11
EvilDragon
Human being with feelings
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by benmrx View Post
Now... I'm wondering if it's possible to go in and create custom maps for all the CC's.. so instead of it saying "01 Mod Wheel", it could say "velocity crossfade"..........????
That's not possible currently, in any way.
EvilDragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 05:39 AM   #12
Studiostriver
Human being with feelings
 
Studiostriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bosnia/Belltown
Posts: 80
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by -R- View Post
Hi all,

(I apologize in advance if this has een asked before, or this there is already a way to do this. Didn't find anything in other threads or in the manual)

I switched from Cubase 5 to Reaper last week, and now fell that I'll stick with Reaper forever. BUT, there is goodie from C.5 that everybody could enjoy.
Here it goes: let's say you use a sampler ( kontakt, in my case) and use a bank with many instruments representing different articulations ( Vibrato, Stabs, Swelles, etc...). You switch from one to another with program changes, or something else like keyswitches, etc..
Their new feature, vst expression, allow you to: configure expression maps, in wich you choose an articulation name (like the ones listed above), choose how is it send to your sampler (C.C.,P.C., Keyswitche, etc...) and if it's an attribute ( affecting only the next note) or a direction ( affecting all next notes until a new change is send).
From there, when you edit in piano-roll, for example, you can set the bottom window to display articulations, and you choose an articulation name to put under a note. IMO, the best way to proceed.
If you don't have access to articulations name, you must remember that P.C. 1 is equal to vibrato, P.C. 2 to Swells, etc.. and it will be different for al your instruments!! The ability to choose wether an articulation is an attrbute or an articulation is a big plus.
I'm far from being computer guru, but I know it would be very easy to implement, and I am sure this feature would be welcomed by all virtual instrument players. Having that plus the ability to save track templates would be just perfect. What do you think?
I came across this long forgotten thread and I know do not know what to think...So Reaper can actually make expression maps?I see you can name what is what in reabank for certain VST but I`m a little more noobish for these cc stuff,also in Reaper it even makes me more confusing.Can anyone give me a hand,and clarify a little bit more,please?
Studiostriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 05:42 AM   #13
EvilDragon
Human being with feelings
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
Default

They're not really expression maps, what was described above were just program change banks. Not the same thing. Expression maps can contain keyswitches and whatnot...
EvilDragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 05:47 AM   #14
Studiostriver
Human being with feelings
 
Studiostriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bosnia/Belltown
Posts: 80
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
They're not really expression maps, what was described above were just program change banks. Not the same thing. Expression maps can contain keyswitches and whatnot...
Oh,ok thanks for info bro...Is anyone made thread in REAPER Feature Requests so far?I will imediately vote for Vst Expression maps,I can`t believe I`m the only one whose interested?

Last edited by Studiostriver; 09-04-2013 at 06:01 AM.
Studiostriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 02:16 PM   #15
Studiostriver
Human being with feelings
 
Studiostriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bosnia/Belltown
Posts: 80
Default

Guess no one.
Studiostriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 04:48 PM   #16
mikeroephonics
Human being with feelings
 
mikeroephonics's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,533
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by benmrx View Post
Now... I'm wondering if it's possible to go in and create custom maps for all the CC's.. so instead of it saying "01 Mod Wheel", it could say "velocity crossfade"..........????
I'm actually working on a feature request which asks for this. It's all on paper at the moment.

Here are some related requests:
FR: Multiple Piano Key Rows in MIDI Editor (optional)
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=3582

FR: MIDI Editor: Vel/CC Lanes: Custom, snappable Grid divisions
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=3538
__________________
Please check out these MIDI requests: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=103192
Thanks.
mikeroephonics is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 06:36 PM   #17
Reno.thestraws
Human being with feelings
 
Reno.thestraws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Belgium
Posts: 10,474
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul intruder View Post
Oh,ok thanks for info bro...Is anyone made thread in REAPER Feature Requests so far?I will imediately vote for Vst Expression maps,I can`t believe I`m the only one whose interested?
With the brand new multi midi editor in reaper, you can use a track just for articulation switching...

Insert a new track, send it to your intrument track, draw a midi item and now you can edit your keyswitch from this track (and use pitching on item to have articulation in the same range than your instrument)
__________________
http://www.residenceemilia.com
Reno.thestraws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2013, 05:22 AM   #18
Studiostriver
Human being with feelings
 
Studiostriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bosnia/Belltown
Posts: 80
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeroephonics View Post
I'm actually working on a feature request which asks for this. It's all on paper at the moment.

Here are some related requests:
FR: Multiple Piano Key Rows in MIDI Editor (optional)
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=3582

FR: MIDI Editor: Vel/CC Lanes: Custom, snappable Grid divisions
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=3538
Almost 80% of suggestions here I like very much.It is so great that we can vote and in a future choose new features/options...I voted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reno.thestraws View Post
With the brand new multi midi editor in reaper, you can use a track just for articulation switching...

Insert a new track, send it to your intrument track, draw a midi item and now you can edit your keyswitch from this track
I realise the first part,are you talking about one track or tracks for each articulation? I suposse I can edit keyswitch in program/bank

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reno.thestraws View Post
(and use pitching on item to have articulation in the same range than your instrument)
So you say I can pitch articulation?...And I don`t get this part well.What is meaning of"in the same range than your instrument"?

Sorry,my English is far from perfect.
Studiostriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2015, 10:37 AM   #19
Tim Rideout
Human being with feelings
 
Tim Rideout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 258
Default

I have been following the whole Expression Maps multi-thread with great interest - and confusion. It would be such a great feature to have, and is primordial to orchestral composers using keyswitches - yet there seems to be great confusion on how to do it, if it's going to get done, what is the feature exactly, etc etc.

Does anyone truly know the status on integrating Expression Maps for keyswitches in Reaper - or tools that are a viable substitute?
__________________
---
www.TimRideout.com
Tim Rideout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2016, 06:56 PM   #20
SEA
Human being with feelings
 
SEA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: By The Sea
Posts: 2,238
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Rideout View Post
I have been following the whole Expression Maps multi-thread with great interest - and confusion. It would be such a great feature to have, and is primordial to orchestral composers using keyswitches - yet there seems to be great confusion on how to do it, if it's going to get done, what is the feature exactly, etc etc.

Does anyone truly know the status on integrating Expression Maps for keyswitches in Reaper - or tools that are a viable substitute?
Any updates on this?
__________________
JamieSEA

http://www.facebook.com/jamieseamusic
SEA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2016, 03:15 PM   #21
juliansader
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,714
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SEA View Post
Any updates on this?
There has been some discussion in the pre-release forum, particularly in the Notation editor and special MIDI handling thread. Nothing confirmed yet, but I would not be surprised if it is in the pipeline as part of REAPER's amazing new notation features.
juliansader is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.