Old 06-20-2008, 02:21 PM   #81
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Hi Tallis, Iīd appreciate coloured lanes too, nice idea bringing these into the items.

Could you (or somebody else) please try and confirm or negate my issue with small controller values I described earlier? For example try to insert a pitch value of zero at the lane height that is seen in your picture? At a heigth like this , the lowest value I can draw is about 215.

Thank you

Frank
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Old 06-20-2008, 02:50 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer View Post
Midi-Item "ghosting" is coooool [nitpick] but itīs not the best way to do it per midifiles, as you have to save the edits (in the midi editor) before the "ghosts" are updated and they canīt be undone.[/nitpick]
+1
tbh I would have wished for a more "elegant" solution implementing ghost clips.
Havent tested the new beta yet but it seems that we already could do this before like suggested in this thread by Jens only a bit easier now.

http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13494
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Old 06-20-2008, 02:53 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by gofer View Post
Hi Tallis, Iīd appreciate coloured lanes too, nice idea bringing these into the items.

Could you (or somebody else) please try and confirm or negate my issue with small controller values I described earlier? For example try to insert a pitch value of zero at the lane height that is seen in your picture? At a heigth like this , the lowest value I can draw is about 215.

Thank you

Frank
the pitch value in green is +198 (8390)
the pitch value in yellow is +227 (8419)

so yes, it is hard to pen in a unity value.

If I drag the CC lan large I can draw values at +/-22ish
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Old 06-20-2008, 03:02 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer View Post
Midi-Item "ghosting" is coooool [nitpick] but itīs not the best way to do it per midifiles, as you have to save the edits (in the midi editor) before the "ghosts" are updated and they canīt be undone.[/nitpick]
agreed. we really need ghost function for non-file-based midi items!
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Old 06-20-2008, 03:08 PM   #85
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Ok this is one part confirmed... could you please try and draw into the negative extreme also? That is what I meant, absolute zero, what would be -8192 or so. I also cannot get modwheel or other controllers to zero at this height of lanes.

thanks for chiming in.

Edit: If this is a bug it should be rather easy to fix, I just wouldn`t like it to slip through into the RC, as itīs new in this beta.

Frank

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Old 06-20-2008, 04:44 PM   #86
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siiiiick preview build. can't wait

one question tho...with the parameter automation (which is just awesemo-5000 btw), how can you trigger it to go 'negative'. I.E. a cut instead of a boost on an EQ?
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Old 06-20-2008, 05:22 PM   #87
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siiiiick preview build. can't wait

one question tho...with the parameter automation (which is just awesemo-5000 btw), how can you trigger it to go 'negative'. I.E. a cut instead of a boost on an EQ?
just move the mix slider (for the LFO or audio control signal) left until the value goes negative, then the signal will be subtracted from the baseline rather than added to it.
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Old 06-20-2008, 05:35 PM   #88
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just move the mix slider (for the LFO or audio control signal) left until the value goes negative, then the signal will be subtracted from the baseline rather than added to it.
thnx

looks like i needed this coffee more than I thought :P
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Old 06-20-2008, 06:26 PM   #89
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great update, again.

cc-lanes are wonderfull, but as tallisman pointed, colored would be better.

ghost function for non-file-based midi items is whatīs important too.
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Old 06-20-2008, 06:40 PM   #90
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Please somebody explain and comment this:

+ VST: support for parameter center extensions, improved ReaEQ and ReaXcomp

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Old 06-20-2008, 08:42 PM   #91
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AMAZING UPDATE!

The Modulation stuff is incredible!

One thing that would be quite cool, would be the ability to 'print' the modulation to an automation lane for editing and fine tuning. I think this new method is the most intuitive automation modulation/envelope system ever created. In 95% of cases it will get you 95% of where you want to be quicker and easier than drawing envelopes like in other inferior DAWs, but if the modulation from this new method could be sent to an envelope for fine-tuning we'd have the best of both worlds.

Wait nevermind, I just saw this :
Quote:
- If you want to be able to manually modify part of the modulated envelope, the best way to do it is to turn off the envelope mod, add regular automation for that parameter, and re-enable the env mod. The regular automation will then be used to drive the modulation baseline slider.

- You can also record the output of the modulated envelope, if you want to tweak it a lot. But, once the modulation is converted to a bunch of envelope points, it necessarily will be coarser (you can't have an infinite number of points).
One thing is for sure, once this is out of beta I think a tutorial would be great to help people really get a handle on this...

The only other thing I can suggest (which seems to apply equally to anywhere tempo sync is used in Reaper) is that when sync is enabled, there should be the option to snap to musical values of decimal values.
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Old 06-20-2008, 08:51 PM   #92
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Hi Tallis, Iīd appreciate coloured lanes too, nice idea bringing these into the items.
This is an idea of how things could work.

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Old 06-20-2008, 09:40 PM   #93
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Default A Sample project?

+ Parameter modulation support: drive FX parameters from LFO or audio control signals (unlimited sidechaining!)

I must be thick as 2 bricks, but after following Gregh's instructions I can't seem to hear any difference...although I can see signal working.

Could someone helpful provide a sample project of something basic working, so I can check where I'm going wrong? Cheers.
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Old 06-20-2008, 09:42 PM   #94
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have you got the fx open and can see it move - i tested it on the gain of a band in reaeq as that is easy to track. Try it with the sine wave and tehn with the audio input
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Old 06-20-2008, 09:56 PM   #95
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The LFOs are always synced.. of course, this is a beta, so please let us know if anything is not working as expected.
thx schwa, great thoughts on the details and yes, somethings not working as expected but it's just my brain going around the possbilities on that new features
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Old 06-20-2008, 10:25 PM   #96
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have you got the fx open and can see it move - i tested it on the gain of a band in reaeq as that is easy to track. Try it with the sine wave and tehn with the audio input
Yeah I had the waves modulating...just not with the input 3/4.

I got it working by cranking the send volume up to max...below that it doesn't work here. Is there a way around that?
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Old 06-20-2008, 10:30 PM   #97
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can't remember it now - and i'm about to go to europe for a month so i'm afraid i'm getting too busy to set up a project

but i definitely could modulate the amount and the positive and negative stuff - but it was fiddly, (although once it worked i was thinking - oh why didn't i do that straight away)

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Old 06-20-2008, 10:48 PM   #98
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Ahh I found the 2 faders for that, so cool! It is pretty fiddly though.

I wish you could delete from the automation window, instead of disabling in the modulation window and closing it...takes too long to change what you're triggering, if you are trying things out.
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Old 06-20-2008, 11:26 PM   #99
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Yeah great update! Especially separate midi cc lanes - many thanks.

Just wondering about the midi ghost clips. Once a clip is converted to a ghost clip it seems that you can't "record midi overdub in existing items" to the clip. Intentional or a bug? Hope it's a bug otherwise the ghost clip usability will be rather limited....
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Old 06-20-2008, 11:36 PM   #100
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I noticed a bug in restoring LFO speed when loading a project ... that's fixed for the next pre.
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Old 06-21-2008, 12:02 AM   #101
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Reaper, with free routing, solid 64 bit core (Rea)fx, auxiliary track channels, JS and parameter Modulation is becoming quite the platform for intricate sound and FX design through FX chains.

Now, there needs to be a way to save these as Presets into browsable, sharable libraries made up of .RfxChain files. And these growing libraries need to become quickly browsable, to audition and develop their quality.

.RfxChain files should store the Parameter Modulations and JS source codes, if they are not already.

I think the best preset system, is a regular file based system with all the standard available methods of organization and distribution. All that the host needs to do is to minimally implement a file based preset browsing experience, with perhaps some potential reloading optimizations.

Here are some thoughts on how to get the FX Chain library browsing quickly started:
http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22481


Let there be great synergy in the Reaper sound design community.
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Old 06-21-2008, 12:03 AM   #102
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Quote:
v2.302pre - June 19 2008
+ Parameter modulation support: drive FX parameters from LFO or audio control signals (unlimited sidechaining!)
+ MIDI editor: now supports with multiple CC lanes, saves CC lane state
+ ctrl+alt+drag items drops a rendered copy of items, hold shift to drag the source media
Holy shite!!!!!!

Shane
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Old 06-21-2008, 12:31 AM   #103
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Default OK, I'm a thick MIDI moron ...

+ MIDI editor: now supports with multiple CC lanes, saves CC lane state

I assume this means that Velocity, Pitch, Bank Select, Program changes etc can now all be displayed at once in the MIDI Editor.

Am I right, if so, how do I get it to work?

Thanks~
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Old 06-21-2008, 12:42 AM   #104
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Another big update and thanks yet again to the Reaper team.

I'm pleased to see an expansion of midi components, particularly the cc lanes. Can i ask if it's possible to add 'tabbing' (either tab, or modifer + left/right arrows) to these lanes, so we can tab from one event to the next, and adjust the rate up or down with up/down arrows, or for those desperately lost souls unfortunate enough to be 'mousers', the scroll wheel? It would enable a much finer control over parameters, particularly programme changes.

Nice work chaps!



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Old 06-21-2008, 12:47 AM   #105
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what about bezier in those lane??
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Old 06-21-2008, 01:18 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholas View Post
+ MIDI editor: now supports with multiple CC lanes, saves CC lane state

I assume this means that Velocity, Pitch, Bank Select, Program changes etc can now all be displayed at once in the MIDI Editor.

Am I right, if so, how do I get it to work?

Thanks~
look for the tiny [+]


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Old 06-21-2008, 01:42 AM   #107
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look for the tiny [+]


.t
Ah ha! Many thanks.
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Old 06-21-2008, 05:28 AM   #108
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Default New Feature Parameter Modulation

This new Feature "Parameter Modulation" is pretty awesome. A really great idea. But if I understood everything correctly my first tests showed some potential for further enhancements (correct me if I`m wrong):

1. The "Audio control signal shaping" may get an "reset" button, especially since it overrides "Baseline parameter value".
2. It seems it is not possible to modulate the target parameter with a negative value. My first idea was to pan an instrument slightly when the vocals set in. I tried it with LOSERs "timeDifferencePan" and I was only able to modulate it with a positive value, which means it only can pan to the right. Ducking will also only be doable with negative values.
3. This only works with FX-parameters. Would be nice especially for ducking or panning if it would work with Track envelopes, too.

Just my2cents

greets
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Old 06-21-2008, 07:42 AM   #109
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2. It seems it is not possible to modulate the target parameter with a negative value.
It is, just set the baseline to a positive value, and the mix slider (for the LFO and/or audio source) to a negative value, and the modulation will be subtracted from the baseline rather than added to it.
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Old 06-21-2008, 07:44 AM   #110
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Holy shite!!!!!!

Shane
Eloquently put, dear fellow......

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Old 06-21-2008, 08:29 AM   #111
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It is, just set the baseline to a positive value, and the mix slider (for the LFO and/or audio source) to a negative value, and the modulation will be subtracted from the baseline rather than added to it.
seeing as how I had the same issue with not recognizing that it was the mix slider controlling that...maybe calling it something else that would be more apparent would help? Maybe call it "amount" or something...I dunno, just a suggestion

works great tho
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Old 06-21-2008, 08:37 AM   #112
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The Paramter Modulation is fantastic! I havn't had a chance to check this out yet but it has completely limitless ideas!

I've been just copying and pasting some ideas here from you guys at the forum to try out (if I make it rich for this, BELEIVE ME you will be compensated LOL). But just thinking about using this with a sampler like Shortciruit you could do some crazy stuff!

Example...load up a multi-sampled synth sound in SC1/SC2, send out some of those samples to different outputs, load up ReaEQ & Reaverberate in the outputs to be modulated by volume...you could get some very intersted textures going on just on that one sound alone.

Just wanted to state that since everyone else was throwin out ideas! LOL Thanks JCS!!!!!!!!
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Old 06-21-2008, 08:39 AM   #113
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@schwa: currently it's only possible to finetune the "baseline parameter" slider via CTRL+Drag. all the other sliders don't change their "resolution" to a more precise one when dragging with the CTRL modifier!? it even looks like these sliders even move faster with CTRL!?

FIXED

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Old 06-21-2008, 09:05 AM   #114
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all great features, and all very appreciated -=-

but the ghost clips for midi isnt exactly optimal.
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Old 06-21-2008, 02:18 PM   #115
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Default Suggested improvements to interface

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevosss View Post
I wish you could delete from the automation window, instead of disabling in the modulation window and closing it...takes too long to change what you're triggering, if you are trying things out.
Two suggestions for interface improvements:

1. Along similar lines to Bevosss, it does seem a bit unwieldy to have to go into the envelopes window every time you want to open an existing Parameter Modulation and tweak its settings. It would be nice if somehow once you turn Parameter Modulation on for a particular parameter of a plugin, then it could somehow appear in an area in the FX Chain for that track.

2. At present the Title Bar of the Parameter Modulation window lists the FX and the Parameter but not the Track Number or Name. This makes it very confusing if several are open to identify which is which.

For example, instead of just "Parameter Modulation for VST: ReaEQ (Cockos) 4 (Band) - Gain" it would be good to show:
"Parameter Modulation for Track 1 (Guitar) VST: ReaEQ (Cockos) 4 (Band) - Gain"
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Old 06-21-2008, 02:44 PM   #116
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Please somebody explain and comment this:

+ VST: support for parameter center extensions, improved ReaEQ and ReaXcomp

Shogger
This seems to be a good question, isn't it? Indeed it is.

Shogger
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Old 06-21-2008, 03:16 PM   #117
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Two suggestions for interface improvements:

1. Along similar lines to Bevosss, it does seem a bit unwieldy to have to go into the envelopes window every time you want to open an existing Parameter Modulation and tweak its settings. It would be nice if somehow once you turn Parameter Modulation on for a particular parameter of a plugin, then it could somehow appear in an area in the FX Chain for that track.

2. At present the Title Bar of the Parameter Modulation window lists the FX and the Parameter but not the Track Number or Name. This makes it very confusing if several are open to identify which is which.

For example, instead of just "Parameter Modulation for VST: ReaEQ (Cockos) 4 (Band) - Gain" it would be good to show:
"Parameter Modulation for Track 1 (Guitar) VST: ReaEQ (Cockos) 4 (Band) - Gain"
... even something as simple as button to be able to open the Envelopes window for a track from inside the FX Chain window would give significant workflow improvements.
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Old 06-21-2008, 03:20 PM   #118
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This seems to be a good question, isn't it? Indeed it is.

Shogger
Well I'll hazard a guess for you and wait to be corrected ...

I assume it to mean that just as clever folks like SWS and Xenakios have come up with all sorts of brilliant and useful extensions for Reaper's editing etc. functions, that now anyone so inclined and capable will be able to develop extensions that will work with VST plug-ins.

But I could be completely wrong.
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Old 06-22-2008, 04:18 AM   #119
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would like to say that the bug in the midi editor is still there.

if I click on the grey bar above to get my cursor at this place... it does not work.
I have to click 5 to 10 times!! in the last update it seems to be fixed or a little bit better, but in the newest update on landoleet it nearly does not work.
I click and click and click.. but the cursorbar does not react.

please can someone confirm/manage that?

everytime I have to work in cubase I realize that reaper is great and for me better in workflow but itīs not reliable in this midi case.
that sucks.

thatīs not to be sneezed at!
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Old 06-22-2008, 04:42 AM   #120
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Quote:
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This seems to be a good question, isn't it? Indeed it is.

Shogger
If I recall/understand correctly, this means that VST plugin developers can now support a Reaper spesific call in their plugins that can tell Reaper some useful extra info about the plugin's parameters. Or could be it's already a VST thing that Reaper now supports...

Oh yeah, and indeed it might be useful for Reaper extension plugin developers, too, as it could help with resetting VST plugin parameters to sensible values and stuff like that, I think.
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