Old 07-02-2008, 10:39 PM   #1
nicholas
Scribe
 
nicholas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Van Diemen's Land
Posts: 9,528
Default Pre 5

v2.4pre5 - July 2 2008
+ better video scrub support (may not support backwards scrub with many formats)
+ better behavior when scrubbing and mousewheel zooming
+ tweaked mousewheel behavior when window captured
+ midi editor note naming (doubleclick piano roll in named note mode)
+ preliminary loop-scrub mode (hold alt, configurable as default)

__________________
Learning Manuals and Reaper Books
REAPER Unleashed - ReaMix - REAPER User Guide
http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/glazfolk
nicholas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2008, 11:04 PM   #2
inthepipeline
Human being with feelings
 
inthepipeline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bristol, UK. Slowly sinking island next to mainland Europe
Posts: 542
Default

Scrub works really nicely in both modes now. Nicely implemented.

*I*
__________________
i7 950, 12gig 1600ddr3, lots of SSD, Fireface UFX, BM5a, JBL LSR6632, OctopreLE x2, Customised Soundcraft 8000, and proud, paid up Reaper user.
inthepipeline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2008, 11:55 PM   #3
Tallisman
Human being with feelings
 
Tallisman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: in the middle of the icecube.
Posts: 7,405
Default


wow
!!!

.t
__________________
.t

_____________________________
http://jomei.bandcamp.com <--My Middle Son.

http://tallisman.bandcamp.com <--Me.

"Excuse me. Could you please point me in the direction of the self-help section?"
Tallisman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 12:27 AM   #4
carbon
Human being with feelings
 
carbon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Eesti
Posts: 2,418
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholas View Post
+ midi editor note naming (doubleclick piano roll in named note
So, we can finally let go the Schwa note naming plugin?!
__________________
KasparTORN
carbon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 01:04 AM   #5
Art Evans
Mortal
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,656
Default

Cool - loop scrub mode already!

As it stands (I appreciate it's preliminary), the loop appears to be 0.144 seconds long, and extends by that amount to the right of the cursor. So if you were wanting to cut on a transient that, using loop scrub, just begins to be heard as you move the cursor to the right, you'd cut 0.144 seconds too soon.

To visualise what I mean, create a loop selection 0.144 seconds long, loop it, and slide it to the right towards the beginning of a song (from silence). You'll hear the first transient of the song as the right hand edge of the loop just touches it. Now leave that where it is and loop scrub with the edit cursor - you'll find you end up with the cursor at the left edge of the loop, not the right edge where the sound just begins.

In other words, the notional scrub loop should extend to the left of the cursor. Then if you first looked for a point using normal scrub, then using loop scrub, you'd end up at the same point.

I think we - or I - may have mislead you (Justin) when talking about whether the left, centre or right of the loop is the "cutting point". Ooops. Hope that can be amended without too much hassle.

When it comes to setting the length of the scrub loop - if there is an intention to make that settable, though what we have seems fine as a default - of course that number could go with the other scrub options, but a neat way of accessing those (or that one) might be by right-clicking on the cursor triangle??

All very good stuff.

[Edit - and ideally an preference option to lower the level of all scrubbing by a given amount.]

Last edited by Art Evans; 07-03-2008 at 01:08 AM.
Art Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 02:53 AM   #6
Dstruct
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,335
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholas View Post
+ midi editor note naming (doubleclick piano roll in named note mode)
That's great!

But the downside: you have to enter names in each item on the same track. why can't reaper apply all these "settings" to all items on the same track?

Same goes for the "View". One some tracks I need Piano Roll, on some the "Named Notes" mode. Can't this be an per track-setting which is remebered when opening an item? At the moment I always have to switch between the different View modes on and on. Very timewasting

DONE

Last edited by Dstruct; 07-03-2008 at 05:45 AM.
Dstruct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 03:21 AM   #7
planetnine
Human being with feelings
 
planetnine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln, UK
Posts: 7,587
Default second Art...

I'm with Art on both his points: selectable point on loop scrub mode (plays loop upto edit point/ either side of edit point/ from edit point [modifier keys?]); option in prefs or similar to attenuate level by a given amount when in loop scrub mode.

however this is awesome -this is a very welcome addition to the edit features. thank you...
planetnine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 03:30 AM   #8
Bevosss
Human being with feelings
 
Bevosss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Propaganda Now! 100% verified propaganda right here...
Posts: 8,448
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by planetnine View Post
however this is awesome -this is a very welcome addition to the edit features. thank you...
I'm really impressed how this update has developed, thanks also...
Bevosss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 04:08 AM   #9
schwa
Administrator
 
schwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 10,593
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandruff View Post
But the downside: you have to enter names in each item on the same track.
You do? It's meant to be per-track, and when I add new midi items to a track the names show up in the editor for each item -- if you are seeing different behavior it's a bug, can you post an example?
schwa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 05:31 AM   #10
Bevosss
Human being with feelings
 
Bevosss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Propaganda Now! 100% verified propaganda right here...
Posts: 8,448
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
You do? It's meant to be per-track, and when I add new midi items to a track the names show up in the editor for each item -- if you are seeing different behavior it's a bug, can you post an example?
Works per-track here too...
Bevosss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 05:44 AM   #11
Dstruct
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,335
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
You do? It's meant to be per-track, and when I add new midi items to a track the names show up in the editor for each item -- if you are seeing different behavior it's a bug, can you post an example?
Sorry, false alarm Works indeed. When was this introduced?
Dstruct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 05:46 AM   #12
schwa
Administrator
 
schwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 10,593
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandruff View Post
Sorry, false alarm Works indeed. When was this introduced?
In 2.4pre5 ... do you mean did we sneak out another 2.4pre5? There's just been one.
schwa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 05:51 AM   #13
Dstruct
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,335
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
do you mean did we sneak out another 2.4pre5? There's just been one.
i don't understand this. anyway it's working as i wanted it to be. all cool.
Dstruct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 08:39 AM   #14
drew
Mobile
 
drew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London & São Paulo. Hardcore commercial REAPERite
Posts: 1,648
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Evans View Post
the notional scrub loop should extend to the left of the cursor. Then if you first looked for a point using normal scrub, then using loop scrub, you'd end up at the same point.

I think we - or I - may have mislead you
I think it might have been me, Art. You're totally right though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Evans View Post
When it comes to setting the length of the scrub loop - if there is an intention to make that settable, though what we have seems fine as a default - of course that number could go with the other scrub options, but a neat way of accessing those (or that one) might be by right-clicking on the cursor triangle??
Great idea! Nice to use the triangle to its fullest!

Incidentally double-clicking the edit cursor triangle seems to send it back to the start of the timeline. I found it rather easy to do this accidentally when grabbing it to scrub - is it deliberately like that?
__________________
Proudly using REAPER exclusively for...
* Media and event music composition & production, sound design + auto-processing at Qsonics.com
* Broadcast branding, promos, education & training and narration voice-overs at DrewWhite.com
drew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 08:42 AM   #15
Justin
Administrator
 
Justin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 12,679
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Evans View Post
In other words, the notional scrub loop should extend to the left of the cursor. Then if you first looked for a point using normal scrub, then using loop scrub, you'd end up at the same point.

I think we - or I - may have mislead you (Justin) when talking about whether the left, centre or right of the loop is the "cutting point". Ooops. Hope that can be amended without too much hassle.

I actually tested audition 3 trial, and it seemed to have the loop area extend to the right of the cursor.. at any rate I'd love to hear what the extents should default to... and I suppose I'll add a start/end loop time to the prefs...
Justin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 10:12 AM   #16
bogo
Human being with feelings
 
bogo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 746
Default

What about having the cursor at the middle of the loop?
bogo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 10:57 AM   #17
Blechi
Human being with feelings
 
Blechi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Saarlänner
Posts: 1,141
Default

The scrub loop should (per default) extend left from the cursor. Otherwise cuts are at the wrong place (too early) or the cursor has to be moved right to compensate the length of the loop.
A configurable loop length would be nice.
Also dimming the audiolevel (configurable) when entering scrub mode would be nice.

regards
Blechi
Blechi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 12:49 PM   #18
PitchSlap
Human being with feelings
 
PitchSlap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 3,246
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
I actually tested audition 3 trial...
Slightly off-topic, but I always thought Cool Edit Pro's "Background Mix Rendering" was an amazing feature. I remember some threads about it years ago on the Cubase forum and I think it was the partial inspiration for the now ubiquitous 'freeze' function...

Anyway, here's a bit of background. Maybe something like this could work in Reaper:

Quote:


FIG. 3: Right-clicking on the green Background Mix bar brings up its context-sensitive menu.

Your system will perform differently if you change your Background Mix priority settings (see Fig. 3). Those settings determine the amount of time Audition devotes to premixing tracks for playback and how far ahead it works. Right-click on the Background Mix bar to quickly make changes. Depending upon the complexity of your project, you might need Audition to mix farther ahead or with higher (or lower) priority.

The relationships between a project's complexities, track effects, and mix priorities, and your system's speed and resources are critical. If that sounds nightmarish, don't let it scare you off. There's no single setup that works in every situation, and this fine-tuning process is akin to setting your audio card's record and playback buffers. To get the right settings, you'll have to experiment, especially if you are pushing things hard.
__________________
FRs: v5 Media Explorer Requests, Global Quantization, Session View
Win10 Pro 64-bit, Reaper 6(x64), AMD 3950x, Aorus X570 Master, 64GB DDR4 3600, PowerColor Red Devil 5700XT, EVO 970 2TB, 10TB HD, Define R6
PitchSlap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 01:55 PM   #19
Tallisman
Human being with feelings
 
Tallisman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: in the middle of the icecube.
Posts: 7,405
Default



.t
__________________
.t

_____________________________
http://jomei.bandcamp.com <--My Middle Son.

http://tallisman.bandcamp.com <--Me.

"Excuse me. Could you please point me in the direction of the self-help section?"
Tallisman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 02:10 PM   #20
Tallisman
Human being with feelings
 
Tallisman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: in the middle of the icecube.
Posts: 7,405
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
I actually tested audition 3 trial, and it seemed to have the loop area extend to the right of the cursor.. at any rate I'd love to hear what the extents should default to... and I suppose I'll add a start/end loop time to the prefs...
Justin after playing a little I belive to the Left would be better. the Playback head then serves as an visual anchor and we can say Ok... this scrubs 500 samples upto here.

but if you are adding options, why not add:
loop scrub playback head = center, Left edge, right edge of loop length

.t
__________________
.t

_____________________________
http://jomei.bandcamp.com <--My Middle Son.

http://tallisman.bandcamp.com <--Me.

"Excuse me. Could you please point me in the direction of the self-help section?"

Last edited by Tallisman; 07-03-2008 at 02:14 PM.
Tallisman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 02:24 PM   #21
Justin
Administrator
 
Justin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 12,679
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallisman View Post
Justin after playing a little I belive to the Left would be better. the Playback head then serves as an visual anchor and we can say Ok... this scrubs 500 samples upto here.

but if you are adding options, why not add:
loop scrub playback head = center, Left edge, right edge of loop length

.t

I'll probably just let you do:

Looped mode start offset: -133ms end offset: +6ms

or something like that, so you can specify where you like it.

Anybody have any comments on whether it should keep looping when scrubbing but no mouse movement? I think I like to keep hearing it...
Justin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 02:54 PM   #22
Tallisman
Human being with feelings
 
Tallisman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: in the middle of the icecube.
Posts: 7,405
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
I'll probably just let you do:

Looped mode start offset: -133ms end offset: +6ms

or something like that, so you can specify where you like it.

Anybody have any comments on whether it should keep looping when scrubbing but no mouse movement? I think I like to keep hearing it...
that offset sounds good.

Yes keep playing. let ALT be the toggle to stop the loop sound.
= My 2 cents.

.t
__________________
.t

_____________________________
http://jomei.bandcamp.com <--My Middle Son.

http://tallisman.bandcamp.com <--Me.

"Excuse me. Could you please point me in the direction of the self-help section?"
Tallisman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 03:21 PM   #23
Blechi
Human being with feelings
 
Blechi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Saarlänner
Posts: 1,141
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
I'll probably just let you do:

Looped mode start offset: -133ms end offset: +6ms

or something like that, so you can specify where you like it.

Anybody have any comments on whether it should keep looping when scrubbing but no mouse movement? I think I like to keep hearing it...
The start/end offset solution is perfect.

Maybe a 'stop looping after n sec (or n loops ?) without mouse movement' would be an option?
Blechi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 04:19 PM   #24
bogo
Human being with feelings
 
bogo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 746
Default

Yes it should keep looping imo.
bogo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 04:27 PM   #25
planetnine
Human being with feelings
 
planetnine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln, UK
Posts: 7,587
Default

Justin, it would be nice to be able to quickly switch between loop before cursor and loop after cursor rather than changing the parameters on a single option. i'm not saying choosing the parameters should be thrown out, but an easy loop type toggle button when in loop scrub would be good -you can switch types depending if you were searching for the start of a transient or the end of an event.

maybe have two presets, or just swap the parameters around. make sense..?
planetnine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 04:30 PM   #26
bogo
Human being with feelings
 
bogo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 746
Default

Would it be possible to have small fades on the scrub loop edges because it's a little bit glitchy?
bogo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 06:08 PM   #27
Art Evans
Mortal
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,656
Default

I think you'd normally be using the loop scrub for start of event location, as events rarely end abruptly and therefore precision location is less important. Anyway, it should continuously sound - just let go of the mouse to stop, or as at present press shift to turn of scrub altogether.

When it comes to the background mixing thing in Cool Edit, that was dropped when they switched to asio drivers in Audition. I think it was largely required when PCs were less powerful than now, and once you got beyond about four tracks they would start to struggle.

So have you fallen in love with Audition, Justin, causing you to lose all interest in further development of Reaper? Actually it's got some very cool features chiefly in its stereo editor, especially in its restoration tools (eg healing brush stolen from Photoshop, ability to edit in phase and pan displays etc etc). But there's little in the Audition multitrack that Reaper won't acquire with this version, (eg cues, item envelopes, and scrub).
Art Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 07:51 PM   #28
Tallisman
Human being with feelings
 
Tallisman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: in the middle of the icecube.
Posts: 7,405
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by planetnine View Post
Justin, it would be nice to be able to quickly switch between loop before cursor and loop after cursor rather than changing the parameters on a single option. i'm not saying choosing the parameters should be thrown out, but an easy loop type toggle button when in loop scrub would be good -you can switch types depending if you were searching for the start of a transient or the end of an event.

maybe have two presets, or just swap the parameters around. make sense..?
neat idea... .
i like it
.t
__________________
.t

_____________________________
http://jomei.bandcamp.com <--My Middle Son.

http://tallisman.bandcamp.com <--Me.

"Excuse me. Could you please point me in the direction of the self-help section?"

Last edited by Tallisman; 07-03-2008 at 07:55 PM.
Tallisman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 08:50 PM   #29
Art Evans
Mortal
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,656
Default

Actually, logically, if you drag to the right you'd be looking for the start of a transient and you'd want the loop to extend to the left of the cursor. If you drag to the left, you'd be looking for the end of a transient (or whatever) and you'd want the loop to extend to the right of the cursor. In other words, the loop should trail behind the direction the cursor is moving in. So the way it worked would be automatic - if it could be programmed.

Either I've hit on a brilliant and unique idea, or I've made a complete fool of myself...
Art Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 08:55 PM   #30
Tallisman
Human being with feelings
 
Tallisman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: in the middle of the icecube.
Posts: 7,405
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Evans View Post
Actually, logically, if you drag to the right you'd be looking for the start of a transient and you'd want the loop to extend to the left of the cursor. If you drag to the left, you'd be looking for the end of a transient (or whatever) and you'd want the loop to extend to the right of the cursor. In other words, the loop should trail behind the direction the cursor is moving in. So the way it worked would be automatic - if it could be programmed.

Either I've hit on a brilliant and unique idea, or I've made a complete fool of myself...


from Irc:
Topic for #reaper was set by pipelineaudio on May 23, 2008 11:59:34 AM
[20:59]
<Tallisman> wow... dynamic loop scrub
<Tallisman> imagine... setting a default of 5ms for the scrub loop... then it loops to or from the playhead depending upon where the playhead is in relation to the itme on the selected track
<Tallisman> ?
<Tallisman> start of an item it loops to... end of an item it loops from?

and then I said:
<Tallisman> nevermind I hate that idea

followed by this:

<Tallisman> I love that idea again! but as articulated by Art.
<Tallisman> here: http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...5&postcount=29

++1 Art that is the ticked! and rather than the position of the playback head in relation to the items, the direction of playback head movement! Awesome!

.t
__________________
.t

_____________________________
http://jomei.bandcamp.com <--My Middle Son.

http://tallisman.bandcamp.com <--Me.

"Excuse me. Could you please point me in the direction of the self-help section?"

Last edited by Tallisman; 07-03-2008 at 08:58 PM.
Tallisman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 11:06 PM   #31
scottdru
Human being with feelings
 
scottdru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,314
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bogo View Post
Would it be possible to have small fades on the scrub loop edges because it's a little bit glitchy?
Seems to me that this kind of thing should be an option but not necessarily a default, since a lot of times scrubbing is used to find digital audio glitches and/or zero crossings etc.
__________________
"Guns don't kill people, people kill people. But I think the gun sort of helps."

- Eddie Izzard
scottdru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008, 11:21 PM   #32
Dstruct
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,335
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottdru
Seems to me that this kind of thing should be an option but not necessarily a default, since a lot of times scrubbing is used to find digital audio glitches and/or zero crossings etc.
yep, i would agree to this.
Dstruct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2008, 02:52 AM   #33
airon
Human being with feelings
 
airon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 10,602
Default

This kind of loop scrub is used in Avid picture editor software to locate slate claps in picture and sound, to sync them up. They play one frame at a time obviously, which means anywhere from 42 ms to 33ms. They ramp the start and end of it up and down so the editor assistant doesn't go crazy.

A ramp up and down value of four samples or more is all you need to smooth the edges of any such loop. Anyone finding little clicks will zoom in anyway.

Concerning performance, the video scrub doesn't work well enough most of the time, no matter what format I tried. They are AVI (Huffyuv, Morgan MPJEGv3, DV Mainconcept, uncompressed) and Quicktime (DV). Video playback is a big one to get right of course, so I'm simply reporting, not complaining.

The sensitivity of the scrub is such at it could use a setting to smooth out the mouse motion and tone down the sensitivty as well. Many mice today are VERY sensitive and we have a lot more screenspace to travel too. I've already brought down my mouse pointer speed considerably to use the scrub. I've never managed to get a decent, constant sounding scrub below 1xspeed going. Could it be that Reaper uses a translation curve that's just capped at the 1xspeed point if the option to do so is active, and that a whole lot of motion range is therefore left unused ?

Playing things at lower speeds is not possible. The sound wobbles because of Reapers precision in translating motion to scrub speed.

The translation curve has already been mentioned by you Justin. I'd be more than happy to test all you throw at us. Without video, the scrub works just fine.

Sensitivity at lower zoom levels.
Ah, that's a requirement Justin. Reaper is not constant at higher zoom levels though, which I presume is due to the cursor having to end up on a pixel of the arrangement display. At lower zoom levels it's important to lower the scrub speed a bit at a time. Protools does not do this perfectly, but they have a decent idea. They just take it too far IMHO, to be useful at lower zoom levels.

Reaper's getting it right in more places already.

May I ask what interpolation you're using for the scrub? My requirements for alias-free scrub are more or less low. Cubic might be all that's required, or Sinc8 if you want to have a relativly alias-free signal to listen to.
__________________
Dialogue/FX Editor & Re-Recording Mixer
(Video)Using Latch Preview - Faderport16 CSI
"My ego comes pre-shrunk" - Randy Thom

Last edited by airon; 07-04-2008 at 02:56 AM.
airon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2008, 06:23 PM   #34
airon
Human being with feelings
 
airon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 10,602
Default

Posted a small (~7MB) video demoing the sound and feel of the Protools 7.3 scrub.

http://shup.com/Shup/49274/PT-Scrubdemo-v73.avi
__________________
Dialogue/FX Editor & Re-Recording Mixer
(Video)Using Latch Preview - Faderport16 CSI
"My ego comes pre-shrunk" - Randy Thom
airon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2008, 11:21 PM   #35
Dstruct
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,335
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by airon
Posted a small (~7MB) video demoing the sound and feel of the Protools 7.3 scrub.
Yeah, this is what I meant with http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=22987 I think. It's too sensitive in Reaper.


Regarding the "Selection Split" - this is possible in Reaper too ("Split items at time selection")!
Dstruct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2008, 02:30 AM   #36
airon
Human being with feelings
 
airon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 10,602
Default

Only on the selected items Dandruff. I'd need to add items to the selection first to make the time selection split(which I use too) work across more than one item.

As you can see in Protools things are selected in a more direct fashion.

The scrub video is meant to demo the low mouse speed behavior of the scrub, which I suggest Reaper use as inspiration to make it even better. Our strength is configurability. AFAIK, Justin should have the PT software in his hands today, and the hardware real soon too I hope. Then it's a matter of seeing what works well in PT and taking that to new heights in Reaper.

Another video, which I only posted in the irc channel thus far highlights some fairly useful PT stuff, which Reaper again could do much better but hasn't tried doing. For anyone interested, here's the screenshot and a monologue AVI http://shup.com/Shup/49281/PT-Screenshot.avi
__________________
Dialogue/FX Editor & Re-Recording Mixer
(Video)Using Latch Preview - Faderport16 CSI
"My ego comes pre-shrunk" - Randy Thom
airon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2008, 02:37 AM   #37
manning1
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,959
Default

forgive me if i'm wrong somehow.
how about coming at this from another angle ?
it would seem to me that anything that saves human scrubbers/audio editing folks time
in their workday would endear them to reaper.

correct me if i'm wrong but how about building in some artfull intelligence...
for example if scrubbers spend lots of time fixing likkle audio glitches etc etc would it not make sense
to have reaper analyse a audio stream/track for potential glitches.
then display a listing of potential glitches and their smpte hit points ?
is this valid ?
haveing the list displayed then the scrubber could hit say "G" on the pc keyboard,
and reaper goes straight to the glitch, and optionally lets one scrub around the glitch and/or reduce its level quickly.

ie..rather than finding the glitch manually then scrubbing ?
would this not save time ?
mebe also...little vertical lines could be drawn on the track display where potential glitches occur ?
to save time ?
manning1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2008, 04:11 AM   #38
airon
Human being with feelings
 
airon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 10,602
Default

That would require highly advanced detection, which so far is limited to a few DSP developers out there. The best is probably Cedar and I'd trust automatic detection to them and perhaps to Izotope, but that's about it. Cockos is unlikely to pour development resources in to such an advanced niche field of DSP development.

If the software detector is wrong you get a lot of false alarms you have to check out. No software declicker catches all the stuff I need to remove from material.

We are still the best detectors and that's unlikely to change in the next five years. Maybe in 10 or 20.
__________________
Dialogue/FX Editor & Re-Recording Mixer
(Video)Using Latch Preview - Faderport16 CSI
"My ego comes pre-shrunk" - Randy Thom
airon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2008, 06:16 AM   #39
manning1
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,959
Default

airon.
i see where you are coming from ,
re false reports....
but with respect not sure i agree on everything.
whether cedar or anything else its just software code.
i'm sure its well within the realms of the reaper devs
technical capabilities dsp codeing wise.

audio is an ac waveform .
(with mebe some dc offset riding on it with poor sound devices.)
ramping up and down with + and - sample values transitioning
thru zero crossing.
thus i would suspect any such software code logic whether cedars or anyone elses looks at a user definable small millisecond timespan. and if the ramp up and down isnt smooth,
and say sample values suddenly go from -50 to +1000..
this obviously is not a smooth ramp and thus prolly a glitch.
its really just a question of coding the proper logic for
waveform analysis and sample ranges is it not ?
manning1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2008, 01:29 PM   #40
airon
Human being with feelings
 
airon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 10,602
Default

Yeah and it takes the best to do this well. The Cockos crew may be a lot, but why should they spend months, and that's what it would take, to design anything remotely capable of detecting clicks reliably, which come in many shapes and forms as well. I don't see that coming.

It's not simple at all. It requires a lot of research, and the coders have other things on their mind than to take time off from developing Reaper for months or even years to perhaps eventually match commercially available declicking solutions. It sure wouldn't come in a $50 package then.

If it they do somehow get great ideas, that's nice but don't count on it.

Should you require an automatic solution, buy a declicker. It's the quickest solution if you cannot spend the time drawing them out, though it isn't perfect by any means.
__________________
Dialogue/FX Editor & Re-Recording Mixer
(Video)Using Latch Preview - Faderport16 CSI
"My ego comes pre-shrunk" - Randy Thom

Last edited by airon; 07-05-2008 at 01:31 PM.
airon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.