Old 03-19-2009, 03:51 PM   #81
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Interesting. Now I got one song working. It took about 12 minutes to open a project with 12 tracks (song lenght 1.40min). I will have to do some more tests..
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Old 03-19-2009, 03:53 PM   #82
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filter303: Just post some problem files and I'll find the error. It's quite strange that Cubase OMF files won't load since I tested everything thoroughly with Nuendo OMFs.

EDIT: erm... 12 minutes is much too long for beta3. Are you sure you used my most recent link, not the one in the first post?

At the moment incompatible files should give an error message stating the issue. Mercado_Negro will provide some big-endian files so at least that will propably be fixed soon.

plush2: So you got two files from the same application, one loads correctly, the other one has endian issues? I can't really believe that (unless one was made on an Intel machine, the other one on a PowerPC). FYI files with a broken header also give an endianness error at the moment, I'll fix this in the next build.

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Old 03-19-2009, 04:00 PM   #83
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It is always a possibility that I am just too impatient .. I will try to open some bigger projects and see how they open
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Old 03-19-2009, 04:02 PM   #84
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I am sure I used the second one. Importing a song will max one of my q6600 cores. Is it normal?
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Old 03-19-2009, 04:09 PM   #85
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I am sure I used the second one. Importing a song will max one of my q6600 cores. Is it normal?
Not really. Does the memory use increase by about 4 times the size of the file? Does a file named [filename].omf.db3 appear in your OMF folder? If so, you're definitely using beta2

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Old 03-19-2009, 04:19 PM   #86
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It seems that Reaper uses under 40 megs of memory while doing the import.. Now I got a project that I have been opening for 18 minutes.
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Old 03-19-2009, 04:21 PM   #87
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OK, could you post a file? Otherwise there would be nothing I can do about it.
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Old 03-19-2009, 04:32 PM   #88
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Of course I sent you a PM.
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Old 03-19-2009, 04:44 PM   #89
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Got it, same issues here. I have to get some sleep now, will look at it tomorrow.
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Old 03-19-2009, 04:46 PM   #90
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Phew, what a relief! I almost thought that it's my system that's doing it...
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Old 03-20-2009, 09:33 AM   #91
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filter303: Holy crap, this is propably the worst OMF file I've ever seen... Looks like the person who coded the exporter for this mess had no idea what he was doing. Normal OMF files contain about 2.000-3.000 objects, yours has over 14.000. Normal OMF files have one single arrangement object (so-called Composition Mob), yours has 1.102.

The only thing I can do about that is to optimize my code as best as I can so that your files take a reasonable time to load.
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Old 03-20-2009, 05:58 PM   #92
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thanks so much for this 404!!! Keep up the good work :-)
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Old 03-20-2009, 11:23 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 404NotFound View Post
filter303: Holy crap, this is propably the worst OMF file I've ever seen... Looks like the person who coded the exporter for this mess had no idea what he was doing. Normal OMF files contain about 2.000-3.000 objects, yours has over 14.000. Normal OMF files have one single arrangement object (so-called Composition Mob), yours has 1.102.

The only thing I can do about that is to optimize my code as best as I can so that your files take a reasonable time to load.
We might have an even *worse* one for you shortly. PARIS has OMF export capability, but it's always been very flaky. I'll test the PC-PARIS generated versions on your extension ASAP, and hopefully we'll have some Mac versions shortly to test too. Great work!

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Old 03-21-2009, 12:24 AM   #94
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Hehe. Yeah, Kerry, YOU test that OMF.

We'll grab some barbacue, drinks and sunglasses, and enjoy the mushroom cloud
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Old 03-21-2009, 12:58 AM   #95
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Hehe. Yeah, Kerry, YOU test that OMF.

We'll grab some barbacue, drinks and sunglasses, and enjoy the mushroom cloud
Oh, I will, I will

Yeah, it could be a stinker - built in 2001, never updated. Still and all, nothing lost by trying. Maybe all it needs is a tiny bit of love on the input end.
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Old 03-22-2009, 01:20 AM   #96
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Beta 4 with big-endian support:

https://stash.reaper.fm/2426/reaper_omf.dll
http://404notfound.bplaced.net/reaper/reaper_omf.dll

No further tweaks yet, but stay tuned!
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Old 03-22-2009, 01:32 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 404NotFound View Post
Beta 4 with big-endian support:

https://stash.reaper.fm/2426/reaper_omf.dll
http://404notfound.bplaced.net/reaper/reaper_omf.dll

No further tweaks yet, but stay tuned!
Great! I finally could open a project from Digital Performer. It took 48secs to load a 450MB file in a AMD Atlhon 64 3200+ with 2GB RAM. Thank you very much [404]NotFound!!!!! This is getting better every day.
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Old 03-22-2009, 09:26 AM   #98
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Wow. This is an extraordinary effort. Amazing.

Maybe it's time to bring some of these extension developers onto the actual dev team? If they can do these types of things as extensions.... well .... imagine what they could tackle while JCS stays on their current path.

Fantastic stuff man.
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Old 03-22-2009, 09:36 AM   #99
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Quote:
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Wow. This is an extraordinary effort. Amazing.

Maybe it's time to bring some of these extension developers onto the actual dev team? If they can do these types of things as extensions.... well .... imagine what they could tackle while JCS stays on their current path.

Fantastic stuff man.
Totally agree on the extraordinary work here. 404's hitting it out of the park. Serious kudos.

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Old 03-22-2009, 03:47 PM   #100
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Thanks a lot for all the hard work 404NotFound, it's much appreciated.
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Old 03-23-2009, 08:38 AM   #101
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this is indeed great!

however, don't know if this is a concern as to the intended use of this so, I tried some old cubase sx2-project exporting omf2 and it worked but there was sync-problems with the items the further into the song I went. user fault?
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Old 03-23-2009, 09:53 AM   #102
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I think I'm noticing this as well ed209. It seems things are in good order for the first 5 or more minutes or so and then the regions start to shift in their timeline position and offset. I'll post back here once I can confirm it and possibly upload an example.
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Old 03-23-2009, 10:10 AM   #103
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Quote:
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however, don't know if this is a concern as to the intended use of this so, I tried some old cubase sx2-project exporting omf2 and it worked but there was sync-problems with the items the further into the song I went. user fault?
I don't know if it's the actual problem but I think this happens because your exported OMF stores timing data as video frame positions instead of audio sample positions, so the accuracy is only say 25/sec instead of 44100/sec. The way OMF stores item positions (distance to previous item instead of absolute position) is quite vulnerable to cumulative rounding errors. There is a good chance that every item on a track adds a drift of 2 frames if the developer of the exporter application doesn't watch out.

Anyway, it you re-import your OMF in Cubase and you also run into sync problems, blame it on Steinberg. If everything is lined up correctly though, blame it on me
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Old 03-23-2009, 10:49 AM   #104
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I don't know if it's the actual problem but I think this happens because your exported OMF stores timing data as video frame positions instead of audio sample positions, so the accuracy is only say 25/sec instead of 44100/sec. The way OMF stores item positions (distance to previous item instead of absolute position) is quite vulnerable to cumulative rounding errors. There is a good chance that every item on a track adds a drift of 2 frames if the developer of the exporter application doesn't watch out.
That is almost certainly what is going on with mine. They are all exported from FinalCut and are 23.976 frame rate which makes the resolution 24 frames/1.001 seconds so it's easy to see how interpretation becomes difficult.

Quote:
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Anyway, it you re-import your OMF in Cubase and you also run into sync problems, blame it on Steinberg. If everything is lined up correctly though, blame it on me
I'll compare an omf unpacked by your filter with the same one unpacked by EDL Convert Pro and report back here.
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:31 AM   #105
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I'll be waiting on your report on that one.

ALL OMF material in post production coming from picture cutters is frame-bound.
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Old 03-23-2009, 12:31 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 404NotFound View Post
I don't know if it's the actual problem but I think this happens because your exported OMF stores timing data as video frame positions instead of audio sample positions, so the accuracy is only say 25/sec instead of 44100/sec. The way OMF stores item positions (distance to previous item instead of absolute position) is quite vulnerable to cumulative rounding errors. There is a good chance that every item on a track adds a drift of 2 frames if the developer of the exporter application doesn't watch out.

Anyway, it you re-import your OMF in Cubase and you also run into sync problems, blame it on Steinberg. If everything is lined up correctly though, blame it on me
I retried exporting from sx2, unchecking some stuff that I didn't understand and this time importing it back into sx2 checking the sync. - sync perfect.
then importing into Reaper. - sync perfect.
user error - user error - user error... I'm stoopid

Anyway, this is very very very exciting for me and some cubase-using friends who're about to jump ship to Reaper! Thank you for your excellent contribution and hard work and talent!
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Old 03-23-2009, 12:51 PM   #107
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Much appreciated!

I was about to write some lines on how timing in OMF works internally, but Opera didn't want me to let this out into the public and crashed instead (thanks, flash plugin!).

Anyway, Beta 5 has been lying around on my HD for over 24h, so here it is:

https://stash.reaper.fm/2426/reaper_omf.dll
http://404notfound.bplaced.net/reaper/reaper_omf.dll

Cluttered OMFs with many items should load way faster now (half the time at least) - there will be visual feedback on the current operation at some time in the future (at the moment it's only console output), but first I have to get into all this Win32 stuff or find a suitable toolkit.

I might have broken support for some OMF dialects yet unknown to me because I assumed that two Avid-specific features only occur conjunctly, so please test your files again.
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Old 03-23-2009, 02:06 PM   #108
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Quote:
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Much appreciated!

I was about to write some lines on how timing in OMF works internally, but Opera didn't want me to let this out into the public and crashed instead (thanks, flash plugin!).

Anyway, Beta 5 has been lying around on my HD for over 24h, so here it is:

https://stash.reaper.fm/2426/reaper_omf.dll
http://404notfound.bplaced.net/reaper/reaper_omf.dll

Cluttered OMFs with many items should load way faster now (half the time at least) - there will be visual feedback on the current operation at some time in the future (at the moment it's only console output), but first I have to get into all this Win32 stuff or find a suitable toolkit.

I might have broken support for some OMF dialects yet unknown to me because I assumed that two Avid-specific features only occur conjunctly, so please test your files again.
Is this now importing items volumes? WOW! yeahhhh I think it is!!! You should mention it, you like surprises, don't you?
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Old 03-23-2009, 02:24 PM   #109
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erm... it should have done that from the first version on
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Old 03-23-2009, 03:18 PM   #110
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Well I tested out the same omf with the reaper_omf.dll and with EDL Convert Pro. ECP opens the omf correctly (next to a video reference mix) but it seems that reaper_omf.dll translates them correct for the first minute or so after which various tracks start to get the offset times for items very wrong. The actual positions of the items seem to be fairly close to correct but those also drift over time.

In post production we often use what is called a 2 pop which is just a single frame of 1khz sine wave that is positioned at the 2 position of the count-in for the video. Often it is added at the end as well. In this particular omf I have both. The 2 pop exists on the first two (mono) tracks and is lined up exactly at the beginning of the reaper session. At the end of the session the two pop on the first track is exactly 2.002 seconds later than it should be and on the second track it is exactly 3.003 seconds late. This is significant as the frame rate of the omf, 23.976 is what is called a 'magic number' frame rate. This means that each second in this frame rate is actually 1.001 seconds in real time. I can't really infer a reason why that is happening but I can say that track one is 48 frames late after 25:32:15 (25min, 32sec, 15frames) and track 2 is 72 frames late after 25:33:15.
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Old 03-23-2009, 03:40 PM   #111
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plush2: No idea on the file offsets yet, but I think I found the reason for the wrong file positions. Could you redownload the file and try again?

https://stash.reaper.fm/2426/reaper_omf.dll
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Old 03-23-2009, 04:03 PM   #112
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I tried the new file out and the problem is pretty much still as I described above. I'd love to send you the omf but it's quite large and is actually for a show I'm working on. If I can I'll try to mock something up that illustrates the problem.
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Old 03-24-2009, 04:41 AM   #113
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Plush2, what application produced the OMF ? Perhaps others can contribute more OMF files to troubleshoot this problem.
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Old 03-24-2009, 05:34 AM   #114
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Hello [404]NotFound, here you have the file you asked for:

https://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/462413/...MFMercNegr.rar

As I explained to you in chat this is only an small portion of a big project. The thing is that reaper is not importing items' positions correctly. This file was exported from Nuendo. As I showed you in the pics in chat items in Nuendo are trimmed but when file is imported into reaper they are untrimmed and not located at their true location. Here you can see a couple of screencaps showing differences:


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Old 03-24-2009, 07:43 AM   #115
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Plush2, what application produced the OMF ? Perhaps others can contribute more OMF files to troubleshoot this problem.
I believe it was FinalCut but I'm not 100% sure. I'll check into it.
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Old 03-24-2009, 05:15 PM   #116
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First, just wanted to say thanks and that this is amazing like everyone else has.


Second, I thought I'd mention that I am active in the film/post production world so I should already have/be able to make test OMFs of video, if anyone could use example OMFs.


I have premiere cs3 and cs4 and sony vegas (which I think only outputs AAF, not OMF. But they're similar?) and probably some final cut OMFs lying around somewhere.


Let me know if you need some specific help and I'll see what I can do. Great work all around!
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Old 03-25-2009, 08:35 AM   #117
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Hello,

thank you again 404notfound.

I have reaper 2.57, + omf beta 5.

I started from a pro tools HD session in 88.2/24Bits.

I reopened it in a pro tools m powered with omf export option (digi translator).

And I made a OMF 2 without Avid compatibility (so I can use 88Khz option), media is NOT embedded. Folder with media is about 1.12 GB.

OMF works in Nuendo.

But OMF makes reaper crash.

I join to this post the omf file, but media files gonna be harder to upload.

In 10 days i'm gonna make some tests with pro tools 48Khz 24 Bits session from pro tools le (with dv toolkit), because it's the most interesting : use reaper to mix movies sound edited in pro tools le.

thank you

mim

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Old 03-25-2009, 11:44 AM   #118
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Mim, how about making a session to test the correct placement of items.

Produce a session for timecode grids of 23.976, 24, 25 and 29.97df , using only one audio item, that is place at the specific timecodes.

Make the sessions start at 00:57:00:00, though I'm not sure about a practical session offset for a 29.97 session. Plush2 has experience there. I live in PAL and 24fps land.

Suggested timecode placements are at 00:59:58:00 (2 frame long), 01:00:00:00, every 10 minutes and at 01:45:00:00 for example, and two seconds thereafter(2 frame beep), to simulate the end beep of a show. Name every item "Audio01000000" for example, so a name and the timecode can be red plainly in the converted session later on for easier reference.

I'd do this myself, if I had the DVToolkit, and access to an HD system right now.

Thanks for any help you can contribute.
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Old 03-25-2009, 11:26 PM   #119
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airon,


I can have access to a pro tools le + dv toolkit, when I want (it's not mine). Impossible for the pthd.

I'm gonna make sessions as you explain. Sadly I won't be there for 2 weeks, so it's gonna be after.

I also live in PAL / 24 fps land.

I'll be glad to contribute to this great work.

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Old 03-29-2009, 10:41 AM   #120
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Default OK,

I exported an OMF from Ensoniq PARIS and unsurprisingly Reaper looked at it and said "say what?".

I'm afraid I really don/t know much about PARIS' OMF support (it may not be an OMF2 file) but I'll upload it later today and see if there's anything you can glean from it.
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