Old 07-06-2019, 10:49 AM   #41
1111Eugene
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@Xenakios
I watched your videos about (or a video) film\movie\cartoon sound editing and so on. and I just can't get it not a tiny bit, how do you manage to do it
with billion of markers and everything else... it should lag hugely...
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Old 07-06-2019, 11:07 AM   #42
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Hi, confirmed here on a MacBook Pro (2016) MacOS Mojave. 128 tracks with ReaComp and volume envelope in separate lane about 1-2 seconds delay reopening the mixer, about 3 seconds with 256 tracks. switching between the intel or the radeon graphics card made no difference. the vol envelopes in the media lane = almost instant switch to the mixer window.

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Old 07-06-2019, 11:30 AM   #43
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Quote:
add a
for example a hundred tracks
add a volume envelope automation for each one
and some other if you wish
and toggle for example a mixer window visible on\off
and count how much time does it take to appear
and then hide all the envelopes
and count again
and there will be already a noticeable difference
I can see this on Mac. Pretty noticeable when taking these steps. I can't say I've ever noticed it in a real project though.

and like Serr said with "show new envelopes in separate envelope lanes" OFF, I don't notice the lag opening the mixer.

Hopefully that helps Justin find what can be optimized.
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Old 07-06-2019, 12:41 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaXyM View Post
from my experience, running plugins in bridged mode (instead of native) might help with lagginess. Probably thanx to better cpu resources balancing.
That is interesting !
Bridging indeed might put a second core to work for the GUI of the plugins. But this might degrade audio performance.
Hence it might be doable for the devs to (without bridging) (optionally) delay any service for pluin GUIs until there is nothing to do any more for Reaper itself.
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Old 07-06-2019, 03:06 PM   #45
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Maybe the automation lanes are the problem?

I have been running a project with about 500 audio tracks + 300 bus tracks for most of this year, with no lagging at all.

I have no volume automation lanes visible.
(and hardly any automation).

Running on both a MacPro, and a PC - no problems.

I hope this helps hunting down the issue
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Old 07-08-2019, 09:29 AM   #46
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@ChristopherT
delete half or most of the tracks
and compare response time of any thing
and then go before\after
undo\redo
to compare time lag between all the 500 or 800 or doesn't matter tracks and after most tracks deleted.
if you'll say, ok I did it and I still don't have any lags... then... please make a video about it, because for now it is impossible, that somebody doesn't have such lags
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Old 07-08-2019, 10:38 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by 1111Eugene View Post
you're saying like if improvements visual-wise will cancel everything else out.
isn't it obvious that it can only improve everything, including the holy audio perfomance. now, with gui lagging, the holy audio perfomance and general stability is just doesn't have any sense. if not for you, then whatever see you later, stop junking the thread as if you helping fixing the issue
Was that a reply to my post, or to sign. mschnell's?
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Old 07-08-2019, 12:15 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1111Eugene View Post
@Xenakios
I watched your videos about (or a video) film\movie\cartoon sound editing and so on. and I just can't get it not a tiny bit, how do you manage to do it
with billion of markers and everything else... it should lag hugely...
You might be confusing me with someone else, I haven't really gone through my personal music/sound projects online. (Unless there's some video I don't remember ) But I can tell, they are usually not that huge. A few dozen tracks, a few hundred media items. (I often do lots of preproduction so the final edit/mix doesn't necessarily need to be that heavy.)
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Old 07-09-2019, 01:29 AM   #49
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My recent tests have shown that REAPER graphics is not optimized for huge number of tracks: https://forums.cockos.com/showpost.p...3&postcount=32
In other words, it draws much more then just visible part of the project. Together with some quirks on Apple and other 4/5k/HDR (mentioned in many threads, alpha versions, etc.) and/or slow computers/graphics, that can produce "lag".
But common, if someone need more then 30-50 tracks, top computer/graphics should not be a problem.
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Old 07-09-2019, 12:36 PM   #50
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Thanks, fix coming soon!
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Old 07-09-2019, 01:23 PM   #51
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awesome!
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Old 07-09-2019, 02:34 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Justin View Post
Thanks, fix coming soon!
Awesome! Any chance this will fix also the issue I am encountering with scrolling/zooming/dragging being jumpy, as well as the inertia of my apple magic mouse not beeing smooth, or is this entirely unrelated to the fix you are making? Still extremely happy about any kind of GUI-smoothing update that might happen, keep up the great work on Reaper!
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Old 07-10-2019, 01:10 PM   #53
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While all the factors listed above are undoubtedly relevant to Reaper's GUI performance, there is one in particular that I think is going to become quite an issue for Reaper in the years ahead (if left unaddressed), and that is display resolution.

I use a large 4k monitor with two 1080p monitors on either side, and simply loading up a session with a handful of tracks and plugs (@30) using roughly 1% of my CPU power, the lag while navigating is quite noticeable. Certainly not showstopping, but enough to give me concern of how sluggish things would get with a fully loaded mix session.

I am currently a Studio One Pro user, and it clearly uses some kind of GPU acceleration as I can completely overload the system beyond it's capacity and still navigate around as smooth as glass. I am VERY interested in switching over to Reaper as there are many things about it that would be beneficial to my workflow, but the thought of downgrading to choppy graphics is definitely giving me pause. (same issue with Pro Tools. Can't do it).

Well... that, and only being able to find two themes so far that make things NOT look either ridiculously small or insanely huge on a 4k monitor. :-)

It would be interesting to see what kind of results are being obtained from others running with higher resolution displays in their setup.

Last edited by Mr. Green; 07-10-2019 at 01:16 PM.
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Old 07-10-2019, 01:14 PM   #54
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The specific pause when opening the mixer should be fixed in 5.980rc2, and the coming 5.980 release.

As far as improving general UI performance with large track counts, the next round of development builds (5.980+devXXYY starting later this week) will have things to improve this.
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Old 07-10-2019, 02:50 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
The specific pause when opening the mixer should be fixed in 5.980rc2, and the coming 5.980 release.

As far as improving general UI performance with large track counts, the next round of development builds (5.980+devXXYY starting later this week) will have things to improve this.
Great news!
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Old 07-10-2019, 09:14 PM   #56
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How satisfying to read complaints and a reply from you with actions planned to fix source of complaint. Nice thank you Justin. This is uncomparable
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Old 07-14-2019, 04:58 AM   #57
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did anybody checked the fix? yes, not a complete one, but some.
I can't say that I see smth different, yes, maybe a mixer windows is now appearing a bit faster, but overall lags are still there.
In a changelog, Justin mentioned this thread as smth similar to "mixer now appears faster"...
but the thread was not just about a mixer window.....
ok, I think it is reasonable to wait at least a month, at least.

also
lagging starts not right from the beginning, not right when you just opened a project.
if you just opened a project and do smth, it responses quite fast.
but in several play\stops\switching windows\show fx windows etc, it starts to really lag (without a hardware overload)

(should it lag when RT CPU is around 85-90? I think no, it shouldn't)
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Old 07-14-2019, 06:35 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1111Eugene View Post
did anybody checked the fix? yes, not a complete one, but some.
Yes, the specific issue you reported reproducibility steps for, and the one which I reproduced here, has been fixed. The mixer now appears instantly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1111Eugene View Post
but the thread was not just about a mixer window.....
That may be, but most other complaints have been generic and vague. "Reaper is slow make it go faster" is not going to get any results.

Breaking out specific cases, one by one, with clear reproducibility steps, plus videos showing the problem if possible, is the best way to motivate developers into action. (It's at least a necessary condition, even if not a sufficient condition.)

Without that, I don't think I would expect to see drastic changes in a month.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1111Eugene View Post
(should it lag when RT CPU is around 85-90? I think no, it shouldn't)
I expect it probably will. 10% headroom on the audio thread is not a lot, and Reaper prioritizes audio processing over GUI responsiveness.
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Old 07-15-2019, 04:19 AM   #59
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wtf man do you speak
without looking through vomiting this useless shit
you need to try being a professional drunk philosopher

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Old 07-15-2019, 04:30 AM   #60
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And you need to stop using ad hominem attacks when you don't have a useful response. tack is a programmer and actually knows his stuff very well. Especially the part when RT CPU is around 90%, you cannot expect smooth GUI then, because it is TRUE that Reaper is programmed in such a way that it favors less audio dropouts versus GUI responsiveness.
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Old 07-15-2019, 04:43 AM   #61
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Especially the part when RT CPU is around 90%, you cannot expect smooth GUI then, because it is TRUE that Reaper is programmed in such a way that it favors less audio dropouts versus GUI responsiveness.
The audio and GUI processing are happening on different threads (that is, in practice on modern systems on different CPU cores), so at least in principle a high load on the RT audio thread shouldn't be affecting the GUI that much. (Unless the audio processing also uses many threads/CPU cores, which could be possible with something like Kontakt.)

There may be things like plugins waiting in the audio thread for the GUI to update, which would be a horrible programming mistake of the plugin developer. Reaper wouldn't be able to do much, if anything, in that case to improve things.
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Old 07-15-2019, 09:01 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
And you need to stop using ad hominem attacks when you don't have a useful response. tack is a programmer and actually knows his stuff very well. Especially the part when RT CPU is around 90%, you cannot expect smooth GUI then, because it is TRUE that Reaper is programmed in such a way that it favors less audio dropouts versus GUI responsiveness.
My response it the truth
for an honest person.
if you don't like to be one,
if you prefer to play a role of a saint
with negativity inside,
to run away from yourself,
judging everybody else,
but not yourself ever
which is always the only one there is to judge for ourselves
then ok
it is completely your personal business.

I said several times that the issue is not about only mixer window.
look what the guy replies
and so on
anyways, he got it how he needs it, so everything should be ok

btw there's another two fixes about the thread in yesterday's beta version
didnt check it yet though

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Old 07-15-2019, 09:14 AM   #63
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I agree with tack. You need to be able to explain the problem and demonstrate it. If the developers can't notice the problem on their own systems, they need as much specific information as they can get. I think you read some animosity into what he was saying.

Also to be able to use your computer to 90% CPU without any audio dropouts, and at that point are suffering relatively minor inconveniences with a graphics lag, I'd say that's pretty reasonable especially since Reaper doesn't use GPU at all. It would be nice if that could be improved. But also maybe if you are using the CPU to that extent, you could use a better CPU.
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Old 07-15-2019, 09:16 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1111Eugene View Post
I said several times that the issue is not about only mixer window.
look what the guy replies
Yes, the guy replies that if you want to maximize your chances of seeing those other things improve, you'll need to specifically provide reproducible cases for them. Make it easy for the developers to understand and fix specific problems, rather than bitching and moaning about vague slowness.

But it's clear by now you're not actually interested in engaging us and especially the developers in a civilized way. So I'm about to do something I very rarely do on forums: *plonk*
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Old 07-15-2019, 09:19 AM   #65
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j/k: Is this bri1 back but with more decent spelling?
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Old 07-15-2019, 09:22 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
j/k: Is this bri1 back but with more decent spelling?
I was thinking that a few days ago.
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Old 07-16-2019, 06:41 AM   #67
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Quote:
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As far as improving general UI performance with large track counts, the next round of development builds (5.980+devXXYY starting later this week) will have things to improve this.
Am I the only one who understand that as "please wait, we are working on it"?
I mean something could be reproduced on the Cockos side of the world. So there is no reason for more reports till we can see what is known/fixed.
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Old 07-16-2019, 06:45 AM   #68
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So there is no reason for more reports till we can see what is known/fixed.
I imagine test cases are still useful so Justin can evaluate the degree of improvement, and also understand what users are actually doing in the wild.
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Old 07-16-2019, 07:51 AM   #69
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Quote:
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So I'm about to do something I very rarely do on forums: *plonk*
Now that is oldskool.
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Old 07-16-2019, 07:55 AM   #70
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Now that is oldskool.
Yeah, I'm old ... er, school.
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Old 07-16-2019, 07:58 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeekat View Post
Now that is oldskool.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tack View Post
Yeah, I'm old ... er, school.
That's a bunch of BBS!
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Old 07-17-2019, 02:58 AM   #72
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I thought I was the only one on herre old enough to remember Bulletin Boards. I had a 450 baud modem back in their heyday...
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Old 07-18-2019, 12:28 PM   #73
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I thought I was the only one on herre old enough to remember Bulletin Boards. I had a 450 baud modem back in their heyday...
I ran my own BBS in the early 80s with a 300 baud Commodore modem, then moved up to Telnet with a shell account which was uber geeky.
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