Old 06-11-2015, 09:37 AM   #41
musicbynumbers
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I did notice the names come up when hovering which is useful and the colours work on a PC already

I think it's that thing of having the master track (which will be interesting in pre 13) adn then music, dialogue and SFX in there too. Even with colours it's niec at a glance to quickly check what's what.

It's totally not the end of the world though if it's not possible to have vertical labels.

Not everyone will want them anyway as they could look messy. I was also thinking to try this on my next full mix and seeing the stem levels for upto probably 8 things and the master all in here at once could be a more reasonable situation to have the vertical labels needed but it might be too much info anyway!

overall though, something like this has been a long time coming and it's so awesome that you have took it on!

When the next big paycheck comes in, I'll donate some more (via patreon this time)
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Old 06-12-2015, 06:31 AM   #42
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update
v1.0pre13 (2015-06-11)
+ Master Track support. Master track line a bit wider.
+ 3 Type Groups by track's suffix. Set sufix in options. Groups Display different meter widths.
+ G1 G2 G3 buttons to switch to groups visibility in graph.
+ CTRL click on track id: solo display in graph clicked track
# Better fill graph mode
# Better detection of project change while script is open.
# Some optimizations in the graph loop code
# Fix graph going in reverse sometimes after docking

Download https://www.patreon.com/posts/2660749

Master Track support. Now the first meter is the master track. id 0. You can toggle visibility on and off as any other track. The line is a bit wider that the others. If you don't need master track you can disable it in options.

The G1 , G2 and G3 buttons, are just like the 1 to 9 presets buttons but always will show the tracks that are in the group defined by the suffix in their names.
By default they are BUS, FOLDER, and INSTRUMENT. Those are the suffixes that you have to add in the bus names in the track. In next versions I will do a button to save options as default settings, so if you change them it can be used for new projects also.
The groups suffixes also affect the width display of the meters, and enable the G1 G2 and G3 buttons
Also now pressing CTRL + click in the track id number, will solo the visibility of the clicked track. A quick way to display only one track in the graph.

Better fill graph: Transparency now depends on the number of tracks visible in graph for better display. There are two fill graphs modes, one with lines and one without lines but master track always shows as a wider line on top. Removed the dots graph mode.
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Old 06-12-2015, 09:38 AM   #43
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Howdy Heda... OK so I signed up the patreon stuff so I could try out the Loudness Graph... which I find to be great so far...

rather than say much at this time since I see you are working fast on changes, I want to ask if one thing might be possible:

EDIT: would it be possible to clk on any of the red overs, and have a time selection appear in the arrange window that shows the length of that over?

This would make adjusting the vol. envelope nice and fast, ..true?
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Old 06-12-2015, 09:59 AM   #44
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Thank you hopi. Yes. I will work on the overs treatment this weekend or next week. if you click on the graph while not playing, it should move the edit cursor to the time. You can drag also in the graph to create a time selection in REAPER. It's manual, but automatic time selection of the overs as you suggest would be a good thing. I'll try to add that next week. So we could have some next and prev buttons to navigate between the overs, creating time selections of them automatically. so once you have the time selection it is easy to correct automation down a bit in that area.
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Old 06-12-2015, 10:27 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heda View Post
Thank you hopi. Yes. I will work on the overs treatment this weekend or next week. if you click on the graph while not playing, it should move the edit cursor to the time. You can drag also in the graph to create a time selection in REAPER. It's manual, but automatic time selection of the overs as you suggest would be a good thing. I'll try to add that next week. So we could have some next and prev buttons to navigate between the overs, creating time selections of them automatically. so once you have the time selection it is easy to correct automation down a bit in that area.
Exactly... as if you read my mind! [it's not a long book...hahaha]

also just noticed a buglet... you can test it like this:

just have two tracks and while playing delete one of them. For me that caused the graph to throw an error and vanish... [win 7 all 64 bit and vst3 for the db meter]

EDIT: you have to forgive me, I'm just learning my around this graph and I'm loving it... I stupidly did not realize it zooms so nicely with the mouse wheel and also did not know I could make a time selection inside the graph... both of which are VERY helpful to accomplish what I wanted. So hey, if some automatic 'clk to make time selection of an over' can be added, then great... otherwise I now see how to get it done nicely.
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Old 06-12-2015, 10:39 AM   #46
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ohhhh... I didn't test for track deletion. I forgot that possibility. thank you I'll have to take a look at that
At least it's only the graph crashing, not the entire REAPER
It's hard to make a script that crashes REAPER entirely... but it can be done too.
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Old 06-12-2015, 10:48 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi View Post
EDIT: you have to forgive me, I'm just learning my around this graph and I'm loving it...
hehe don't worry. make sure you read all the things in the help txt file too. For the final version I hope to make a better looking manual than a txt. online HTML help with licecap gifs or something.

Make sure the tracks you add are folders with fader at 0db.. or the loudness level will not be the correct one. Since it gets the loudness from the dpmeter plugin, and we don't have post fader insert FX yet :/ It would be nice. Cockos please
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Old 06-12-2015, 11:00 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by heda View Post
hehe don't worry. make sure you read all the things in the help txt file too. For the final version I hope to make a better looking manual than a txt. online HTML help with licecap gifs or something.

Make sure the tracks you add are folders with fader at 0db.. or the loudness level will not be the correct one. Since it gets the loudness from the dpmeter plugin, and we don't have post fader insert FX yet :/ It would be nice. Cockos please
I'm confused... I can only add folders? Can't just add or use on normal tracks???
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Old 06-12-2015, 11:15 AM   #49
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you can use normal tracks too, but if you move the fader of that track -10db for example, it won't be reflected in the loudness graph because dpMeter is added in the chain of the track before the fader. That's a limitation in REAPER. We cannot add FX after the fader in the chain. I think there was a feature request for post fader fx inserts. But we don't know what Cockos think about it.
So for now the best is to create a send from the track you want to analyse to another track. The send can be post fader send. So then you add that bus track into the loudness graph. You can even remove any output to those analysis bus tracks if they are only for the analysis.
But I often find that I can use the folders I use to organize contents as the analysis bus tracks. Since they automatically receive the children tracks in them.
I hope it's clear now.
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Old 06-12-2015, 12:44 PM   #50
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Thank you everyone.
Yes I think REAPER 5 scripting capabilities is going to be one of the major features and strengths.

I'm also excited with this script. It has convinced me to accept paypal donations, since some of you wrote me privately for a donation address. But I will announce it properly when it is ready. I am working on a web page where you will be able to find all my scripts and all updates so nobody will miss anything like in the forum

You've to get paid for this this is just mind blowing!
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Old 06-12-2015, 11:55 PM   #51
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Heda... ummm I see that delete track crash report has opened a can of worms.... but I'll bet you will find the solution.

In the meantime I am noticing another bit of strangeness... this time with db Meter vst itself.

OK... I have your Loudness meter script on a toolbar... so I call it from there

Now lets say I have only one track, no plugins on that track and then I call your script...

Doing that puts an instance of the db Meter on the Master...

but it does not load there with the "Loudness" preset I have saved to it. It loads with the default RMS meters...

...and it does this no matter if I save the Loudness preset again, and\or save the EBU [Loudness settings] as the default preset.

This is all on Reaper 5 pre 36 64 bit. The db Meter is the VST3 dll.

So in other words... no matter how I get the db Meter VST onto a track, it does not automatically load with the EBU [Loudness] preset... I have go into it manually and make the settings each time.

Seems to have nothing to do with your script but with the dll itself.

Any thoughts?
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Old 06-13-2015, 02:51 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by sambosun View Post
You've to get paid for this this is just mind blowing!
thank you for the appreciation.
I went to the grocery store and asked them if I could get some food to keep doing scripts. But they didn't understand and they wanted something called money instead. This reaper scripting thing must be a minority thing. So I opened the patreon.com page https://www.patreon.com/heda where anyone can tip a small amount per month
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Old 06-13-2015, 02:56 AM   #53
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@hopi
I'm trying to fix the track deletion bug, but with a workaround... it clears the graphs, but at least it doesn't crash.

About that preset issue... mmm I'm testing this now too and you are right... if the track is empty, then it is displayed as RMS. but I've noticed that as soon as I put a media item in the track the preset is called correctly so it works. I don't know if this is a REAPER issue or a dpMeter issue. but as long as the meter starts working, the preset is updated correctly.
I thought it was an issue in VST 2 version, That's why I put in the help txt file that you have to install the VST3 version. but maybe I didn't noticed what was going on and when I tested in VST3 version it worked because I had media items on the tracks. So it may work also with the VST2 version.

Thank you. good testing.
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Old 06-13-2015, 03:44 AM   #54
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Quote:
But they didn't understand and they wanted something called money instead
Is that a thing ?

(haha )

----
Did you ever consider contacting the dpMeter author ? Maybe he has some infos for you !
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Old 06-13-2015, 05:58 AM   #55
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so.. I have tested now with the VST2 version and it works too.. but you cannot work with both VST2 and VST3 versions.. so either you install the preset in one or another.. but not in both, or REAPER doesn't know how to call the preset it seems.

little capture of what happens when a track is empty as explained. basically the UI of the plugin is not updated until it receives some data and starts working. Maybe it has to do with the fact that VST3 plugins don't use CPU if they are not being used. But it works as soon as it has some audio to process. So I think it is not an issue.


@X-Raym, I will contact him again now that I know it happens when the track is empty.
pd: yes those grocery store guys had no idea what REAPER scripts were.. so there is still potential looking for new patrons hehe

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Old 06-13-2015, 10:37 AM   #56
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Thanks Heda for discovering what the issue is with the db Meter loading its own preset. I'd think the author of that vst could [should?] fix that so it loads the Loudness preset or any preset saved as default right when it is placed on a track.... yes?

Now I'm dealing with another thing... maybe is it user error or user misunderstanding... I'll try to explain but it's a bit tricky:

My assumption is that I can find an over, then draw a time selection on it in the Graph and while using loop play in reaper put points an automation lane and tweak them until the Over goes away.
Now mostly this works but it seems to have some inconsistencies.
I first turn reaper's Snap to off so I'm not dealing with the grid snap since often the Over is a very small section of time.
Then I use the automation env. for Vol Pre FX.
OK... I get the time selection in the arrange window that matches the Over in the Graph.
Then in reaper I turn on Loop Play...
Now two things ... IF the time selection is very short, the Graph does not seem to show correctly... UNLESS I do both these things again and again:
1- Clk Clear in the Graph... and
2- set the edit cursor in the arrange window to a new place before the time selection.

So... what I would expect [wish for] is that I could make any size time selection and use Loop Play while I tweak the env. points and have the Graph update what it shows as I do that tweaking. In other words, every time it plays through the loop, the Graph would update instead of my having to set the edit cursor to a place before the time selection and start play again.
Isn't that one of the main points of being able to see and fix Overs???

Also... when clicking in the graph to place the edit cursor, it is not accurate, ...especially when zoomed in a lot in the Graph. It almost seems like the Graph is using its own strange Snap to some grid size for this.

This part seems important to me... so that I could clk in the graph, and have the edit cursor go precisely where I clk, [My edit and play cursor are linked together... would that matter?]

I suppose I could send you a little project to show all this...
A LICEcap would be kind of large...
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Old 06-13-2015, 11:09 AM   #57
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Hi hopi. I think all the problem should be gone if you just make a bigger time selection. You don't need to loop just the tiny over bit just to correct the automation.
Are you using ML, SL or IL mode? You don't even need a time selection to correct the overs.
But let me explain why it works like this.
You cannot loop a small fraction of an audio and calculate the loudness correctly. Why? Because it is not instant peak what it needs to calculate. It needs more audio. For example to calculate Momentary Loudness (ML) it has a 400 ms RMS size. And for Short-term(SL) it uses 3000ms. So that's the time the cursor is moved back each time you click on the graph or make a time selection. So when the cursor plays where you clicked it already has buffered 400ms or 3000ms into the loudness calculation to accurately calculate the values and update the graph correctly. I haven't seen any other plugin that can update the graph as this does.
In the case or Program Loudness, or Integrated Loudness as others may call it (IL) it is always calculating from start to stop, but it is recommended at least a minute according to EBU docs to accurately represent the loudness. https://tech.ebu.ch/docs/r/r128.pdf (page 4 2nd footnote)
For that reason, they say that in shorter than a minute clips, for example an ad, or something, Short-Term is used instead of Integrated Loudness
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Old 06-13-2015, 01:21 PM   #58
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Oh... I did not know all that so thanks again very much...

That certainly explains what I have been seeing and tells me how I need to think about working with this.

Oh... another question: say I turn off the Master readout in the Graph and then close the Graph and then open it again.... seems like the Master is set to On again.... should it hold the last setting if that is what a user wants?

Now I enter dreamland: [the realm of wouldn't be kewl stuff]

... wouldn't it be kewl if we could solo a given track, and have the db Meter\Graph combo write to an automation lane [like Vol or Vol Pre FX] so that any Over was automatically corrected to no longer be an over..

well I did say I was dreaming... eh?
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Old 06-13-2015, 03:06 PM   #59
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@hopi
you are right...master track setting should be saved also. I'll fix that in pre14. Thanks for reporting it

I still need to think how to do all that automation fixing. Yes that would be nice, although I prefer manual fixing. You can always put a limiter on the tracks and that will also fix the overs I guess.
There are two types of overs. the ML or SL overs.. that can be adjusted in options. by default is at -17 but I don't know if this is right.. this is personal option. And the IL overs are at -22.5 db or -22.0 in some cases as it is explained in the EBU pdf I posted in previous post. they can require different treatment.. and sometimes it's ok to have SL or ML overs to have dynamic range if you don't surpass the IL one which is the limiting one. if you surpass the IL by 3db for example.. you can adjust the track -3db and it may work but not always.
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Old 06-13-2015, 04:45 PM   #60
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right.... 'not always' seems to happen to me in many flavors...

Yes the manual tweaking is fine and the graph makes it really much nicer to work with that...

So here's an imaginary thought about how some automation could be written...

Let's say there are 5 areas of Overs, ok...

and somehow the Graph sends info to an automation env. ummm could be any of the Vol. env's I guess. Now what it sends is this:

IF there is not an Over, the env. stays at it's default level... but IF THERE IS AN OVER, it sends two points at the start and at the end of that Over to the env.

In my dream, IF that existed, it would be very sweet to then go tweak each of those sets of Overs with the Alt Key and Mouse over the bar that joins the points... and just pull them down until the Over is gone or at least under control....

Yes Limiters are handy and of course I use them... but it might be better to use them much less!

You are doing a beautiful thing with this Heda!
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Old 06-14-2015, 06:11 PM   #61
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new pre to download
I guess compensating lack of REAPER 5 new pre-releases since pre36...

v1.0pre14 (2015-06-15)
+ Switching modes ML SL IL without clearing the graph
+ Button [-] to remove selected track(s), same as adding [+]
# bugfix: no crash on deleting tracks. but clears graph for now
# bugfix: master track option was not being saved
+ Option to always display Programme Loudness(IL) in master meter
+ Click Master IL label to reset master track only.
+ adjust fill graph opacity in options, or in graph with SHIFT+mousewheel
# filled graph by default, with lines on top of the fills
# Anti-aliased lines
# Custom overs are for ML and SL, IL overs fixed at -22.5

Download: https://www.patreon.com/posts/2678924


pd: it is not as slow as in this gif above. the gif is at 2 frames per second to be small size. I'll post updates videos with better quality.
to update:
just in case, to update you just have to extract the files and replace all files in the same folder. No need to re add it to actions or anything. Just replace all files and start the script as usual from your toolbar button or shortcut.

Last edited by heda; 06-14-2015 at 06:17 PM.
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Old 06-15-2015, 07:29 AM   #62
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I am thinking that I will make the default graph mode to lines, instead of fill with lines. Because I'm seeing that if you add many tracks, it is a bit less responsive, while the Lines only mode is still good. Maybe it is just me with my old computer.
the best would be to make it as a configurable option too
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Old 06-15-2015, 08:11 AM   #63
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I'm for the option to use fill... I have not tested with many tracks, just a few, but I like the look so I hope it can stay.

Thanks for the ongoing improvements.... this is a wonderful tool.
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Old 06-15-2015, 08:31 AM   #64
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Thank you
yes.. That's why I changed the default to fill in pre14.
But then after testing with many tracks I see it is a bit slower in my old computer. Maybe not a problem in a good computer. Also it may not be a good idea to have so many tracks analysed. This is maybe better for some bus groups and master
I'll make it an option and filled by default. in pre15 there will be an option to save current settings as default ones too.
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Old 06-18-2015, 02:16 AM   #65
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Teaser of pre15
Regions display, with various display modes, save settings as default, default theme to match better with REAPER 5 default theme. and some more changes and fixes...
will be released maybe tomorrow as I have to fix a small thing first. but I'm quite busy this week. thanks!

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Old 06-18-2015, 04:07 AM   #66
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That looks awesome!

(I haven't done that thing I said I'd do yet as I've not had time but just thought I'd say pre15 is looking amazing and I'll get round to that thing soon!)
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Old 06-18-2015, 04:15 AM   #67
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This region display thing..... Awsome feature !
This will allow to have a better sense of 'where we are' in the project and a better idea of the zoom level.
And all the display mod are really nice
This graph is more and more surprising at every update. Good work !
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Old 06-18-2015, 08:31 AM   #68
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Hi Heda, I've intalled the plugin, in some projects Meters are working but the graph is not working. What am I doing wrong ?


Edit : Ok I've got it. It is all about zooming.

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Old 06-19-2015, 07:51 AM   #69
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Hi Heda, I've intalled the plugin, in some projects Meters are working but the graph is not working. What am I doing wrong ?


Edit : Ok I've got it. It is all about zooming.
I think I should improve the default zoom values. When you first start the script in a project it defaults to a view range from 0 seconds to 100 seconds. Maybe it is not ideal. It should check the project's end time. Also there was a feature request by X-Raym in the patreon posts, to have a button to zoom all project extension. I hope to have time to look at this this weekend.
Thanks!

@musicbynumbers @X-Raym Thank you both. Yes, regions is a nice thing to have in the graph. I wasn't sure about it but now that they are there I see they are a very good thing to have Thanks X-Raym for the feature request pre15 is almost ready.
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Old 06-19-2015, 08:47 AM   #70
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great to see your new improvements Heda...

so now that we can see regions [very helpful to know where we are] it makes me wonder if it could also show markers? Which could be another way to know where we are...

Sometimes I use regions and sometimes I only use markers... right?
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Old 06-20-2015, 06:24 AM   #71
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thank you hopi. Yes that's exactly the thing that I want to fix before releasing pre15 because right now it is crashing if there are markers. It works with regions only. so I can't release something I know it can crash. So yes.. pre15 will support markers too.

my idea is to display markers and regions together if you have both.. like in REAPER... but I am thinking now.. maybe it could be interesting to display only markers, or only regions or both.. as another option. but maybe for later releases. right now the priority is to release pre15 so you all can test it.
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Old 06-20-2015, 08:26 AM   #72
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oh good.... no hurry from me.... so take all the time you ever need... LoL

I like that idea of the option to show markers or regions or both...

I could imagine being able to set makers at the places we find overs and then go back and deal with those overs...

This is growing into one of the best tools ever!
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Old 06-20-2015, 08:34 AM   #73
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@hopi

I fixed the bug that was getting me crazy with the markers. It was easy.. it was just that I was very tired at night last week to fix this kind of stupid bugs LOL. now I see it all clear

very nice idea adding markers at overs. I'll add that. Thank you
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Old 06-22-2015, 06:56 AM   #74
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Default pre15 update

v1.0pre15 (2015-06-22)
+ Regions/Markers Display on graph, various display modes.
+ enable display or Regions only, Markers only, or both.
+ Button in options to save current settings as default ones
+ Display IL in all meters, with line and text at the level.
# graph mode (ML SL or IL) saved in project
# format of calculated values of time selection.
# Options reloaded after project switch
# Theme was not begin saved.
# light theme changes and default to match with REAPER 5 default theme.
# UI tweaks

Download: https://www.patreon.com/posts/2727254

sorry there was very good weather to be at home coding this weekend... but here it is pre15 finally Please test the regions and markers thing.
Options are saved in each project but now there is also a button to save the settings also as default ones for next times you open the script in a new project.
Default theme is now the light one to match better with REAPER 5 default theme. But if you have a dark theme maybe you prefer the dark or medium theme.

edit: by the say.. is it possible to rename the entire thread from "Lua Script: Loudness Meters MCP" to "Lua Script: HeDa Loudness Graph EBU R128" or something like that? This thread started with the idea of some meters but evolved into a loudness graph script. I still can read the old title in the forum listings.

Last edited by heda; 06-22-2015 at 07:06 AM.
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Old 06-22-2015, 08:03 AM   #75
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Thanks Heda... great to see this growing so much!

just had a further thought IF you are going to add the ability to drop markers at Overs.... would it be possible to set the color and maybe even the text of those markers from withing the script? For example, all the markers for Overs could be bright red and have the same text, such as "OVER"...

I'm thinking this so they would be easy to distinguish from any other markers in a project... right?
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Old 06-22-2015, 09:20 AM   #76
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yes it makes sense to color them red and with a custom text.
I am thinking a toolbar button to add overs markers manually when you want. Not automatically adding markers as you play. So if you adjust the automation and the overs are fixed, then clicking again in the button would remove those markers too. So you could see the markers still to see where it was, until you press redraw markers.
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Old 06-23-2015, 08:52 AM   #77
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now that is a great idea!

Heda... I just tried 15 beta and though it shows the markers and regions nicely, it is not showing the lines and fils and overs????? did I miss something? Previous ver. did show the graph of course.
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Old 06-23-2015, 12:05 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi View Post
now that is a great idea!

Heda... I just tried 15 beta and though it shows the markers and regions nicely, it is not showing the lines and fils and overs????? did I miss something? Previous ver. did show the graph of course.
strange..
does it work in a new project? or a project where you worked with pre14?
lines always must be shown.. you can hide is the regions or markers. Try changing display options for both in the options page.
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Old 06-23-2015, 12:24 PM   #79
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well some progress... EDIT:

all good now... all 'solved' mostly user error...

the main problem was not with your script 15 but with the db meter vst... which had somehow managed to save it's default as bypassed ...

seems to working fine now...

what I do is call your script, which drops the db vst onto the Master and then copy that FX to whatever other audio tracks I want to read... so the durn bypassed FX was being copied... [did I say 'error' ???] OK all's well that ends well...

Version 15 looks beautiful to me! maybe the LICECap of 15 could replace the ones in post#1? So new visitors get the full impact...
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Old 06-23-2015, 02:22 PM   #80
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I suggest you to add the tracks form the script using the + button. Maybe easier. Select all the tracks you want to have the dpmeter and click + button. It should add the dpmeter correctly at the end of the chain in all selected tracks. Same to remove.. using the - button.

yes I think I should update the licecap.
if anyone wants to put a screenshot with your project.. I'm curious
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