Old 06-24-2015, 11:55 AM   #81
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How big is the W10 download?
The Beta ISO is 4 GB, so the upgrade will be similar.
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Old 06-24-2015, 11:56 AM   #82
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How big is the W10 download?

It looks as though it is done automatically, so I cannot control the timing. Here, if I exceed my monthly bandwidth limit, I get to pay my ISP an extra £1.20 per GB :shock:
Change ISP. Most of the better ones are in all practical terms unlimited these days.
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Old 06-28-2015, 04:40 PM   #83
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I installed Windows 10 a few hours ago, in place, over a Windows 7 install. At first things were a bit slow, and messing around in the system tray finally seemed to freeze the entire operation, necessitating a warm boot. Then a couple of things needed reinstalling to get them woken up, but no data was lost, and that's a couple out of many.

After the reboot and a bit of use everything is quite zippy.

I'm surprised how similar everything is to my Windows 7. Without any configuration I boot to the same desktop with the same folders and icons, and the same wallpaper. The title bars and menus are flat, but that's made up for by the new responsiveness. Reaper and games all work fine.

The start menu is fine too.

In Windows 7 you can arrange windows on the desktop up to 2. Windows 8 killed that. Windows 10 takes what was in 7 to the next level.

I'm really looking forward to DirectX 12 in the final release.

It looks like no one will have a choice BUT to upgrade, nevertheless, it's very very good so far, and for free.

We'll see what the future holds vis a vis monetization.

We shall see.
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Old 06-29-2015, 10:44 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
How big is the W10 download?

It looks as though it is done automatically, so I cannot control the timing. Here, if I exceed my monthly bandwidth limit, I get to pay my ISP an extra £1.20 per GB :shock:
from what I understand, if you have signed up for the upgrade it will be coming across to your computer in small pieces until the release date.. So not all at once when everyone else is trying to get it at the same time...
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Old 08-08-2015, 08:41 AM   #85
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a question: I seem to be getting to the party late. I have 2.092 M of the upgrade showing in windows update but I'm still being told I will be notified when I am ready for the upgrade. How much more is there yet to come does anyone know?
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Old 08-08-2015, 09:57 AM   #86
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How much more is there yet to come does anyone know?
The ISO of the 64 Bit version is around 4 GB.

Check it here:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/soft...d/windows10ISO
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Old 08-08-2015, 10:33 AM   #87
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If you check in windows update there is probably a button for you to click. If you really want it. I had to uninstall two updates to get it to stop nagging me to upgrade. I'm sticking with Win 7 until Win 10 gets updated a bunch of times. Then maybe. But Microsoft was being really sneaky on this one. I kept unchecking the "optional" update to Win 10 and it kept putting the checkmark back.
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Old 08-08-2015, 02:04 PM   #88
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OTOH they didn't want me. No upgrade nag box yet for me.
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Old 08-08-2015, 07:22 PM   #89
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OTOH they didn't want me. No upgrade nag box yet for me.
I've had the upgrade box foe a while, but still no upgrade. It says they'll notify when it's ready.

The missus got hers straight away though.
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Old 08-08-2015, 08:07 PM   #90
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If you check in windows update there is probably a button for you to click. If you really want it. I had to uninstall two updates to get it to stop nagging me to upgrade. I'm sticking with Win 7 until Win 10 gets updated a bunch of times. Then maybe. But Microsoft was being really sneaky on this one. I kept unchecking the "optional" update to Win 10 and it kept putting the checkmark back.
Once I installed it on another machine and realized what kind of OS it was, I changed my mind AFTER the Windows 10 files had downloaded. What an annoying pita! Every time I booted my computer or ran Windows Update the install started and I had to stop it. To get rid of everything I had to uninstall update KB3035583 and run Windows Disk Cleaner to delete the files (you cannot simply delete the $Windows folder that holds the upgrade files). I suggest anyone considering W10 take a close look at the privacy invasive features (which you can turn off if you dig deep enough), what "Windows as a service" means (read the EULA), and how you no longer have a choice on what MS chooses to install on your machine. Just not for me. YMMV.
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Old 08-19-2015, 12:49 PM   #91
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I was trying to remove the Windows 10 notification from my taskbar, after considering it briefly, I decided against. I was lucky to have been asked to set up a new machine for a friend's son and had my first and last experience with Win 8.

How to remove Win 10 notification?

Answer here:

http://microsoft-news.com/how-to-rem...and-windows-8/

And it seems there are people out there who are very annoyed at MS's back door strategy. If you are not interested in Windows 10, you can remove this program from your PC. Go to Windows Update->Installed update, remove KB3035583. It gets installed as an update.

complete with trolls

Now imagine Reaper 5...

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Old 08-20-2015, 03:58 PM   #92
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Why bother with window 10 let others be the foolish windows free testers for Microsoft.
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Old 08-20-2015, 10:08 PM   #93
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Why bother with window 10 let others be the foolish windows free testers for Microsoft.
Good point ... I asked myself: What does Windows 10 have, to be willing to accept the privacy issues and migrate from Windows 7. For my taste absolutely nothing.
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Old 08-21-2015, 09:16 AM   #94
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It seems that some of the latest updates to Win 7 install "telemetry" software similar to what is in Win 10. I have had to "hide" several updates that said they were to "improve upgrade experience" or "set new telemetry points." I would click on "more information" on every update, recommended or "important" before you allow it to install.

For example, KB 3022345 enables "Diagnostics Tracking Service" in Windows 7, 8.1, and Server 2012 R2.

Sigh.
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Old 08-21-2015, 10:10 AM   #95
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It seems that some of the latest updates to Win 7 install "telemetry" software similar to what is in Win 10.
That was to be expected. I wonder how IT departments in companies will react to this. But I fear most admins won't even notice the risk of industry espionage.
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Old 08-21-2015, 01:14 PM   #96
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and you think sending telemetry-data is the same as industry-espionage? hm. you didnt had the urgent feel to look up both terms in Wikipedia? hm.
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Old 08-21-2015, 03:47 PM   #97
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Tinfoil hats........
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Old 08-21-2015, 04:20 PM   #98
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Tinfoil hats........
One of the other threads had the link to the blog about the 'expert' who traced 10240 and listed all these phone home domains. I subsequently traced 10240 for a couple solid hours using Fiddler, Netsh and wireshark. The only reference to the telemetry domain or IPs and most of the others he listed was http requests my browser made to that guys blog because I had followed the link in the thread.

Though I do expect in a connected world like we have now for some feature or diagnostic data to flow, I found little to back up that article. Additionally, for an 'expert' I was disappointed to see he only dug enough to write the article when it would have been very easy to dig just a little deeper (with free tools) to see what that mysterious data actually was.
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Old 08-21-2015, 05:01 PM   #99
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One of the other threads had the link to the blog about the 'expert' who traced 10240 and listed all these phone home domains.
He did not state he traced using build 10240.. It's possible he traced a preview which does do some keylogging and a number of other telemetry stuff for very obvious reasons.

The main thing with all these doom and gloom warriors is they mostly have _no_ knowledge or skills to actually verify claims made in these troll blogs where it's really simple to debunk by using tracers and network analysis tools available for free. But these clowns prefer to just parrot whatever some propaganda site with alternate motives will drum up and spin as if it's a reality.

I stopped responding to these posts as it's pointless. These muppets can only come back with the same nonsense response and will generally work in some personal jab. They do not have any valid arguments since they are mostly clueless on what they are talking about.
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Old 08-21-2015, 07:59 PM   #100
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He did not state he traced using build 10240..
He does at the very bottom of the page. Nevertheless, my results didn't align so I let it go for the reasons you mentioned...

Quote:
Because there were questions in the debate, with such instruments of measurement was done, here is a list:
•To monitor network activity in Windows tools were used 10 PRTG Network Monitor and Wireshark
•For the monitoring program and data activity was used Windows Resource Monitor
•The measurement took place on a Windows installation 10 Build 10240 RTM, install ISO downloaded from MSDN

Ref: http://aeronet.cz/news/analyza-windo...ocich-a-hlasu/
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Old 08-21-2015, 08:26 PM   #101
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Well, O&O Software released a free little app called ShutUp10.

According to their site;

Quote:
Originally Posted by O&O
'As an example, Windows 10 can remind you to set off to the airport 30 minutes earlier due to traffic en route. In order to deliver this information to you, however, Windows 10 has to access your calendar entries, your mails (i.e. the airline confirmation email), your location and it has to have access to the internet to get traffic news.

Some services protocol your entire keyboard entries, share your WLAN access data with your facebook contacts or connect your computer without asking permission to a public – and potentially unprotected – network. While this means that you and your contacts do not have to grapple with complicated WLAN passwords, it also poses a significant security risk.

Decide for yourself how important your “comfort” is when weighed up with your privacy and how to protect it.'
I dont see why O&O, a data management & security software company, around since the late 90's would lie about what data is being sent. Theyre an MS partner (gold application dev, gold oem).

Those 'troll blogs' are telling us that data is being sent, O&O confirms what data it could be, and from which 'features'.

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These muppets can only come back with the same nonsense response and will generally work in some personal jab.
'Tinfoil hats', 'doom and gloom warriors', '_no_ knowledge or skills', 'troll blogs', 'clowns' 'parrot' 'muppets' 'clueless'.

The personal jabs seem to be coming from your side of the table sir.
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Old 08-21-2015, 08:31 PM   #102
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Some services protocol your entire keyboard entries, share your WLAN access data with your facebook contacts or connect your computer without asking permission
You do realize that statement has significant errors correct? Did you take any steps at all to check further or did you just copy and paste it?

Quote:
I dont see why O&O, a data management & security software company, around since the late 90's would lie about what data is being sent
Because if they don't spin it the way you took it, they can't get this on your machine... https://blog.oo-software.com/en/wind...e-home-anymore
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Old 08-21-2015, 08:45 PM   #103
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Did you take any steps at all to check further or did you just copy and paste it?
I copy and pasted it. Why do i need to research it? O&O's credentials allow me to take their word.

You should contact O&O and tell them how it really is.

Better yet, you should contact MS to tell their lawyers of O&O's defamation.
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Old 08-21-2015, 08:50 PM   #104
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I copy and pasted it. Why do i need to research it?
To cure ignorance?
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Old 08-21-2015, 08:55 PM   #105
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To cure ignorance?
Again with the 'personal jabs', coming from the 'win 10 is peachy' side of the table.
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Old 08-21-2015, 08:59 PM   #106
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Again with the 'personal jabs', coming from the 'win 10 is peachy' side of the table.
Ignorance isn't a personal jab, it is something that is occurring in parts of this thread. I didn't reply for any reason other than technical accuracy.

Seems like the actual behavior is the bigger point no?
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Old 08-21-2015, 09:06 PM   #107
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Very good report on Windows 10 privacy issues, by a guy who knows a thing or two about Microsoft softwares (he's a software developer):

http://blog.robseder.com/2015/08/16/...0-and-privacy/

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Old 08-21-2015, 09:10 PM   #108
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Very good report on Windows 10 privacy issues, by a guy who knows a thing or two about Microsoft softwares (he's a software developer):
Apparently not, he's copying and pasting the exact same article I already went behind and ran better tests myself. FYI, many of us here are developers and this particular area of expertise really has nothing to do with development skills. What's interesting is one of the errors I called out from O&O takes zero technical knowledge, logging into the OS will give the real answer within about 10 seconds, ya' can't miss it.

EDIT: Defeated by scroll bars, see my other post below.
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Old 08-21-2015, 09:36 PM   #109
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Apparently not, he's copying and pasting the exact same article I already went behind and ran better tests myself. FYI, many of us here are developers and this particular area of expertise really has nothing to do with development skills. What's interesting is one of the errors I called out from O&O takes zero technical knowledge, logging into the OS will give the real answer within about 10 seconds, ya' can't miss it.
Karbo, are you sure you have read his whole post? From what I've read, it seems the poster (Rob Seder) did referenced the same article that everyone keeps referencing to, but then decided to check its validity for himself by testing 3 different Windows 10 configurations (Home, Pro and Enterprise). He then gives his own opinion on the matter at the end of his post.

BTW, I never meant to imply that only "software developers" have the ability to judge OS security issues. Anyone who wants to devote some time learning network capture apps can learn a lot too. This whole W10 privacy issue got me curious and I decided to install WireShark and a few other similar apps and I was fascinated by how "chatty" Windows 10 was compared to previous Windows versions

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Old 08-21-2015, 10:52 PM   #110
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Karbo, are you sure you have read his whole post? From what I've read, it seems the poster (Rob Seder) did referenced the same article that everyone keeps referencing to, but then decided to check its validity for himself by testing 3 different Windows 10 configurations (Home, Pro and Enterprise). He then gives his own opinion on the matter at the end of his post.

Chuck
Looks like I didn't scroll down far enough. Good call and thanks (edited my post above accordingly). His "bottom line" bullets are about the same thing I saw. As an academic side note, I would have ran wireshark without a capture filter and just use post-capture filters after the fact so that you have all traffic. It's a minor technicality since he was only trying to confirm/deny what the other blog stated.

My beef isn't the data I already know they send in order to allow the features that use it (skydrive, cortana etc.) work, but rather the intentional miswording and assuming and/or often just making the answers up without checking which then gets endlessly repeated. This person appeared as if they were only interested in the actual behavior which is clearly the better goal.
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Old 08-21-2015, 10:59 PM   #111
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and you think sending telemetry-data is the same as industry-espionage? hm. you didnt had the urgent feel to look up both terms in Wikipedia? hm.
I'm not an idiot. I just thought one step further by assuming, that when they integrate telemetry data collection in old Windows version by updates, they will very likely also intergrate the rest too, reading emails, etc..

And all this data is sent over https, so there's only one solution for companies, building networks isolated from internet for high security areas, e.g. dev departments.
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Old 08-22-2015, 01:23 AM   #112
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I say only one word: HAARP. they will get us all ...

I never said you were an idiot. I asked you a question. from what you write I assume you didnt look up what telemetry actual is and that it is / may be essential to get a relatively flawless OS built.

what do you think how software is developed? by geniusses that need no feedback to control and double-check what they are doing?

sure I think you belong to the tin-foil-hat-party. otherwise I wouldnt have asked that question. beratungs- und informations-resistenz nennt man sowas. nicht idiot.
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Old 08-22-2015, 01:39 AM   #113
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.beratungs- und informations-resistenz nennt man sowas. nicht idiot.
Mit beratungsrestistenten Idioten habe ich täglich beruflich zu tun ... soviel zu dem Thema
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Old 08-22-2015, 04:26 AM   #114
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'Tinfoil hats', 'doom and gloom warriors', '_no_ knowledge or skills', 'troll blogs', 'clowns' 'parrot' 'muppets' 'clueless'.

The personal jabs seem to be coming from your side of the table sir.
Actually I am not addressing anyone specifically.

And I guess you also feel that a person's PA should not have access to her/his bosses calendar, mail, itinerary or the phone numbers and details of her/his bosses contacts and colleagues then? She should certainly not be allowed to communicate on behalf of her/his boss, be able to make changes or enter new entries in a calendar (and I could go on).

Like it has been said, simply using the free tools available on the net will allow you to see that these wild claims of massive feedback of telemetry to Microsoft are at best exaggerated.

And even while the originally mentioned blog post used build 10240, if this guy is on the Insiders program his install will obviously still have all the known data collection activated as that is (as has been very clearly and openly communicated by Microsoft) one of the conditions you agree to when joining the Insider program.

In fact it would not surprise me if a lot of these articles are actually based on Insider builds/installs as the IMO good rebuttal in the link on post #109 also states.


Does Microsoft collect (personal) data from your Windows 10 install ? Of course they do, they tell you so and you agree to that by accepting the EULA and installing the OS.

Do they monitor and capture every thing you do on your Windows 10 install? For those on the Insider program, to some extend they do yes. This is, again, very clearly laid out in the T&C you agree to when joining the program. It also makes sense for them to do so in this case.


What should you do if any of this bothers you? Stop using the internet. Certainly stop using anything related to Google, Yahoo, Apple, Firefox. Stop shopping online, do not use anything but cash, stay out of city centres.

In other words, be a hermit.

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Old 08-22-2015, 07:34 AM   #115
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In other words, be a hermit.
And what is the opposite? Being a dumb sheep, that accepts everything others try to force it to?
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Old 08-22-2015, 09:23 AM   #116
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And what is the opposite? Being a dumb sheep, that accepts everything others try to force it to?
Google, Facebook, and countless others offer "free" services for the price of sharing your information and becoming a "product" in their business model. Most people are at least semi-aware of that. It is acceptable to some, not so acceptable to others. You can choose not to use it.

Others, like Adobe, are offering subscription software so that using the product is like paying your light bill. This is ok for businesses, but kind of tough for freelancers who might not be able to always pay the bill thus and lose access and not be able to work.

Microsoft seems to be trying both models. Office is now subscription. Win 10 is free with data sharing. It is legitimate to wonder where this is going and how far. You can't use a computer without an OS and the choices are limited. If privacy controls don't actually turn things off, that is a concern. If the old trusted OS starts turning into the new untrusted one through updates, that is also a concern.

Facebook, Spotify, and countless others mine your contact list and connect with your friends and relations. It used to be that you had to give permission. I don't think that is the case any more. Numerous people I know have had their contacts mined without permission. To me, that is unacceptable. It is not tinfoil hat stuff to be concerned about it. It is happening.

So it is legitimate to ask "What is Microsoft doing?" And to investigate it.

If only more software companies were like Cockos. Reaper is truly a gem.
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Old 08-22-2015, 10:32 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by Stringer View Post
Others, like Adobe, are offering subscription software ...
Thank god, Affinity Photo is now released. If they develop further as fast as during the public beta, this can be become a real Photoshop killer. And it seems so, because today the second update was released, just a few weeks after release. For private enthusiast like me, it's definitely worth a recommendation. And a Windows version is already planned.

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Office is now subscription.
That's why I now use Libre Office, which is good enough for private use and fully compatible even to very old documents, like Office 2000.

The more people boykott software nonsense, the more likely the vendors will change their mind.

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Originally Posted by Stringer View Post
If only more software companies were like Cockos. Reaper is truly a gem.
Absolutely, and Cockos has the power of a small flexible dev team. It has a reason, that this forum has seen some Cubase und Pro Tools converts.
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Last edited by Aymara; 08-22-2015 at 10:39 AM.
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Old 08-22-2015, 10:38 AM   #118
paulheu
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Originally Posted by Aymara View Post
That's why I now use Libre Office, which is good enough for private use and fully compatible even to very old documents, like Office 2000.
Libre office is OK for basic documents, use anything fancy, starting with some basic formatting, and it falls on its face.. It's not even close to Microsoft Office.


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Originally Posted by Aymara View Post
And what is the opposite? Being a dumb sheep, that accepts everything others try to force it to?
No, question what is presented to you. So far I, and several others here and elsewhere, have been able to verify that most of these doom and gloom blog posts are incorrect and misrepresent what happens for what appears to be alternative motives. You can do this as well, but you choose to blindly accept whatever they push in front of your face as fact.
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Old 08-22-2015, 10:47 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by paulheu View Post
..., use anything fancy, starting with some basic formatting, and it falls on its face ...
Most people don't need that for private use.

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... but you choose to blindly accept whatever they push in front of your face as fact.
Ah, prejudice, fantastic ... no further argument required.
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Old 08-22-2015, 02:57 PM   #120
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Default I'm having problems with Reaper after windows 10 upgrade...

Now that I have upgraded to windows 10 every time I try to insert a vst Reaper completely freezes up. Any help with this matter?
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