Old 12-11-2017, 07:42 PM   #1
NeonHelix
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 10
Default EastWest/Nektar Integration

Hey All.

I'm new to digital audio in general. I purchased a Nektar Impact LX49+ MIDI controller, and subscribed to the EastWest Composer Cloud+ service. But, I'm having some trouble with the Play (their version of Kontakt) player in Reaper and the way it's interacting with my MIDI controller or with Reaper.

Despite my best efforts, I can't get Reaper or EastWest or Nektar (or some combination of the two) to playback any voice other than the instrument set to channel 1 in the EastWest player when using my MIDI keyboard. If I click directly in the player, it will playback the selected voice, but pressing keys on my MIDI keyboard only ever triggers whatever voice is set to channel 1.

Very long story short, I followed Kenny Gioia's instructions on setting up VSTi instruments. I loaded the instance of Play onto a new track, and I let it create 18 tracks of stereo routing. Then I loaded up three voices on the EastWest Player, then I built 16 channels of MIDI routing to those tracks. I double checked to make sure that each voice was on a different MIDI input channel (1, 2, and 3), and I checked to make sure that each one was outputting to a different stereo channel (Main L/R, 3/4, and 5/6 respectively). I even checked to make sure that the input channels on each track were set to my MIDI keyboard, though it doesn't make a difference; no matter which input I choose for either the MIDI tracks or the stereo tracks, the result is the same. I made sure to arm only the MIDI track that I wanted to hear, and even went so far as to solo it/mute others, but regardless of which track I arm, I always hear channel 1. Even when no tracks are armed, the player plays back whatever voice is on channel 1. I have set my MIDI keyboard MIDI channel input to "global", as well.

Anyone have any ideas? I think that either 1) my MIDI controller isn't transmitting on any other channel than channel 1, 2) Reaper seems to only be recognizing MIDI data from my controller as data on Channel 1, or 3) the EastWest player is not reading the midi data correctly and redirecting it all to channel 1. I can't for the life of me think of a way to test which it is, however. Am I missing something?

Thanks for your help.
NeonHelix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2017, 04:51 AM   #2
Stella645
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,217
Default

Have you done this?

Stella645 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2017, 05:51 PM   #3
NeonHelix
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 10
Default

I have now, but it didn't change anything. Functionally everything is still the same.

I wonder if maybe it's a routing problem since I've noticed that it still plays Channel 1 even when the MIDI track 1 isn't armed. According to KG's video, if nothing is armed, no sounds should play, right? The fact that I'm still getting playback with nothing but the VSTi track armed means something isn't right there.

Perhaps it's an issue with EastWest Play, because I checked the routings and its showing that MIDI Tr1 is sending MIDI info to MIDI channel 1 on the VST track, and MIDI tr2 is sending all its data to MIDI ch2, and it's showing that when I arm MIDI tr2 it's getting MIDI signal there (and nowhere else), but it still sends the audio through Stereo track 1/2. It's like the MIDI gets registered on MIDI Tr2, routed to VST track Ch2, somehow gets shoved over onto Ch1, and spat out Stereo Tr1.

Here's a jpg link of what my setup looks like now: https://i.imgur.com/cWmjB5X.jpg

And what the routing on the VST track looks like: https://i.imgur.com/4kUILeo.jpg . (Note: Originally on Send Track 3/4 it was sending audio from 3/4 to 1/2, which didn't seem right to me, so I changed it to 3/4->3/4. Though that didn't help either. Just thought you should know this isn't the default, per se).

Thanks for the help, Stella.
NeonHelix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2017, 05:31 AM   #4
Stella645
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,217
Default

Quote:
Perhaps it's an issue with EastWest Play, because I checked the routings and its showing that MIDI Tr1 is sending MIDI info to MIDI channel 1 on the VST track, and MIDI tr2 is sending all its data to MIDI ch2, and it's showing that when I arm MIDI tr2 it's getting MIDI signal there (and nowhere else), but it still sends the audio through Stereo track 1/2. It's like the MIDI gets registered on MIDI Tr2, routed to VST track Ch2, somehow gets shoved over onto Ch1, and spat out Stereo Tr1.
Trying to follow this but not quite sure I have the right end of the stick....you're saying that you can see ch2 in play receiving midi and you can hear sounds.
So it is playing ch 2, just not through the outputs you expect?

Have you put 2 entirely different instruments into ch 1 and 2 so you can be sure what you're actually hearing.
Stella645 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2017, 07:34 AM   #5
gofer
-blänk-
 
gofer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,164
Default

In your picture the instrument gets midi input from the track it is inserted on. Don't record arm this track, but one of your "Play MIDI" tracks.
If you want to be sure to avoid this mistake, you could also set the input of the track with the instrument to "none".

Also, you do indeed want channels 3/4 from the instrument track to be sent to channels 1/2 of the audio track (track 5 in your example). Otherwise you won't hear that signal, unless you have some hardware output connected to channels 3/4 of track 5 or your master track, or route 3/4 to 1/2 somewhere on the way to your hardware outputs.

Last edited by gofer; 12-13-2017 at 07:43 AM.
gofer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2017, 05:44 PM   #6
NeonHelix
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 10
Default

Sorry, I'll try to put it another way.

In Reaper I have MIDI tracks 1 and 2 (MIDI Tr1 & Tr2), the Play VST (VST Tr), and the Stereo Tracks (Str1. Str2). In the Play FX Window, I have loaded in a Celli sample set and a Grand Piano Sample set. In the Play FX Window Mixer, I have set the Midi input for the Celli to "Channel 1" and the stereo output to "Main L/R" (=1/2). I have set the MIDI input for the Piano to "Channel 2" and the output to "3/4".

The VST Tr is armed by default. It must be armed, because if it is not, it does not matter what else is armed; I get no signal on any tracks, and thus, no sound. So I leave the VST track armed. (I did reset the routing to "3/4->1/2" at gofer's suggestion.)

A: When I have no tracks armed (besides the VST, which is always armed), playing my keyboard plays a Celli sound--the sound mapped to Ch1 in the FX window. In the Reaper mixer, it shows the VST track getting MIDI signal, and it shows the Str1 getting audio signal. There is no signal detection on either MIDI Tr1 or Tr2.

B: When I arm MIDI Tr1, I get the same result as example [A], but this time, it also shows MIDI data being received in the mixer on MIDI Tr1--not just the VST track. Celli sounds are still played back through Str1.

C: When I arm MIDI Tr2, I STILL get the same result as example [A], but it (quite logically) shows MIDI data being received in the mixer on MIDI Tr2 instead of Tr1.
Un-logically, Celli sounds are still played through Str1. (So, even though I have armed MIDI Tr2, which is supposed to be assigned to MIDI Ch2, which is supposed to play Piano, and output through Str2, it is not. It is instead behaving identically to example [A] or [B].)

D: Arming either of the Stereo tracks does nothing different than configuration [A], but then, I didn't expect it to.

@gofer, when I set the input of the VST track to "none," I lose all signal and all playback. It effectively shuts down the entire setup. I have to record arm that track as well, or nothing works, as I mentioned above.

Hope that clears some things up for you guys. Thanks again.
NeonHelix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2017, 10:43 PM   #7
gofer
-blänk-
 
gofer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,164
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeonHelix View Post
The VST Tr is armed by default. It must be armed, because if it is not, it does not matter what else is armed; I get no signal on any tracks, and thus, no sound. So I leave the VST track armed. (I did reset the routing to "3/4->1/2" at gofer's suggestion.)
...

...
@gofer, when I set the input of the VST track to "none," I lose all signal and all playback. It effectively shuts down the entire setup. I have to record arm that track as well, or nothing works, as I mentioned above.

Hope that clears some things up for you guys. Thanks again.
The VSTi track is armed by default if you use "Insert virtual instrument on new track" because it assumes you just want one track playing one instrument with no further MIDI routing. In that case it obviously (following Reaper's paradigm of only monitoring if record armed) needs to be armed.

But, If you want to route MIDI to the instrument from another MIDI input track (and want your MIDI recorded on that input track), then your instrument track does not need to be record armed. So what you said in the quote above is not what you should expect to happen.

I'll attach a small example project with the same track layout as your example but the routing fixed. Just insert Play on track 1, record arm either track 2 or 3 and it should work.

Note: I also disabled master/parent send on track 1, to avoid track channels 1/2 to be doubled up (coming from both track 1 and 4 to the master). I forgot to mention that in my previous post.


This stickied thread from Dark Star explains several methods of doing Mult-instruments in Reaper:https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=27868
Attached Files
File Type: rpp Multi-instrument example.rpp (5.3 KB, 67 views)
gofer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2017, 05:16 PM   #8
NeonHelix
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 10
Default

Thanks Gofer. Problem resolved.

I had to do some comparing between your setup and mine, but I finally found the crucial difference: the monitoring mode. I had the Play track on record monitor and the MIDI tracks set to monitoring OFF. I needed to reverse those. I knew it had to be something simple. Thanks so much for your help. I'll be sure to refer to the stickied thread to learn more.
NeonHelix is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.