Old 07-15-2008, 10:51 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Tallisman View Post
but I am no one! You understood me exactly right, but it is just an idea - hopefully one that cockos loves and runs with.
.t
It was a definitely good idea. I'm going to take this as well when I'll sum up all the things that have been mentioned here. Thanks

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Originally Posted by beatbybit View Post
as the 11.000th visitor of this Thread..


Before I'd sum up the ideas I guess it would worth checking how other apps handle REX. I think I wrote some posts before, Logic handles REX files as sort of amalgamation part (AP) but I'll check Ableton, Cubendo...maybe I can get some additional good ideas from them.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Many programs have native support for the REX file format. For example, with Pro Tools 7, each slice is treated as a region, and when you import the file, it's treated as a Region Group. Thus, as you change the tempo, the regions are 'staked' to ticks and remain at the same bar and beat positions. Sonar includes the RXP REX file player; you load the REX file into it, and it plays along with your sequence. MOTU's Digital Performer, Emagic Logic, Steinberg Cubase, and many others support the REX format as well.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr0...etech_0406.htm
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

a bit OT: atm i have no reaper here at my workplace, is there any macro or option to show / hide the markers inside the wav files? When arranging it would be useful sometimes to hide them and just follow the markers placed in the Reaper project... (of course after all the editing is done with the items)


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Old 07-16-2008, 10:44 AM   #82
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Default Tracktion, Ext

For today let's see Mackie Tracktion and Ext.
I downloaded trial versions of them.I am not expert in these apps but tried to have a look at their REX support.

As for Tracktion it is capable of importing REX files but i found no further editing possibilities. (correct me if im wrong)


recycle loops are imported as just a single item, so for me it just seems to be a rex player.

Ext. This is not bad at all! Its sort of AP. check the screen record.




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Old 07-16-2008, 11:25 AM   #83
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For today let's see Mackie Tracktion and Ext.
I downloaded trial versions of them.I am not expert in these apps but tried to have a look at their REX support.

As for Tracktion it is capable of importing REX files but i found no further editing possibilities. (correct me if im wrong)


recycle loops are imported as just a single item, so for me it just seems to be a rex player.

Ext. This is not bad at all! Its sort of AP. check the screen record.




/boka
thats AWESOME!!!!
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Old 07-16-2008, 02:05 PM   #84
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Indeed! that is very cool. very!


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Old 07-17-2008, 09:00 AM   #85
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Default Ableton Live 7

Tallisman suggested me that I should check how Live 7 handles REX files... It's absolutely killllllller!
check this video, the rex part starts from the half time.
http://www.ableton.com/live-for-beat-creators


should i check other apps... ?

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Old 07-17-2008, 11:42 AM   #86
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Default Yes !

REX2 in Reaper : +1
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Old 07-17-2008, 12:01 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by boka View Post
Tallisman suggested me that I should check how Live 7 handles REX files... It's absolutely killllllller!
check this video, the rex part starts from the half time.
http://www.ableton.com/live-for-beat-creators


should i check other apps... ?

/boka
no. Live has it covered. just steal everything they have done and be happy

Live 7 is Rex support

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Old 07-17-2008, 10:39 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Tallisman View Post
just steal everything they have done and be happy
yeeeeaaah


as for sliced beats,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_P_Critter View Post
Dude - I already gots da beets.


I found this in an other topic.. perfect!

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Old 08-24-2008, 06:07 AM   #89
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Hi, I'm looking at the REX2 SDK. REX2 files actually do not contain MIDI data, they contain only audio slices. (The ReCycle app itself can export a loop as MIDI, but not in the form of a REX2 file.)

As far as how to handle importing REX2 files (leaving aside preview for now), the most straightforward thing to do would be import the loop slices as multiple audio items at the project sample rate and tempo, so you would get something like this:



You could then immediately glue the slices back together if you want. That seems like it might be less intrusive than giving you a dialog box every time you bring in a REX2 file, asking if you want to import as slices or a single item, etc.

What do you guys think?

(attaching the screenshot above as well, because Shup is hiccupping)
Attached Images
File Type: png rex-import.png (16.5 KB, 152 views)

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Old 08-24-2008, 07:54 AM   #90
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Yeah I think that would work as the benefit of using Rex is they're pre-sliced, you usually don't want the whole thing anyway. Just discard or move what you don't want or need then glue desired parts together for desired clip.
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Old 08-24-2008, 07:58 AM   #91
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I think that it is exciting that we are seeing the birth pangs of a killer addition.

schwa, the issue is this, afaict:

one of the beautiful things about rex is that it automatically fits the tempo, like yours above, but it can be moved about as a single item.

So my guess is that the rex implementation in other daws takes the rex loop info / tempo info / slice marker infoand bends those to the grid, keeping their tempo-relative timing/spacing, and keeping the rex item intact.

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Old 08-24-2008, 07:59 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by moodswinger View Post
Yeah I think that would work as the benefit of using Rex is they're pre-sliced, you usually don't want the whole thing anyway. Just discard or move what you don't want or need then glue desired parts together for desired clip.
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but take a rex loop into live or cubase and then move it around. what happens?

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Old 08-24-2008, 08:00 AM   #93
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I am not at all a REX expert, but I wonder what would happen if you'd import that same file at a different tempo?

The idea of REX files is of course changing distances between the slices to follow tempo without timestretching, so it would be necessary to calculate the shortening or gap between the slices when importing to a faster or slower tempo than that of the imported file.

I am just asking, because it's not clear in your post and I want to make sure that the REX files will not be timestretched on import. As I said, I'm no expert, so it may be this is covered in the files themselves or I talk utter bull anyway.
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Old 08-24-2008, 08:32 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by gofer View Post
I am not at all a REX expert, but I wonder what would happen if you'd import that same file at a different tempo?

The idea of REX files is of course changing distances between the slices to follow tempo without timestretching, so it would be necessary to calculate the shortening or gap between the slices when importing to a faster or slower tempo than that of the imported file.

I am just asking, because it's not clear in your post and I want to make sure that the REX files will not be timestretched on import. As I said, I'm no expert, so it may be this is covered in the files themselves or I talk utter bull anyway.
yes a very good point! I am gonna dust off the cubendo products.
and live heh.

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Old 08-24-2008, 08:39 AM   #95
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If a REX file was saved with contiguous slices @ 100 bpm and you import to a project @ 90 bpm, you'd get empty spaces between the slices. If you import to a project @ 110 bpm, the slices will overlap (later slices will lie on top of the earlier slices). If the original REX file already has spaces between the slices (like it was gated), then the slices will just be closer together when imported to a project with a higher bpm.

Right?

To move the slices as a unit, you'd need to either glue them together or select them all.
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Old 08-24-2008, 09:03 AM   #96
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Yep, that's what I mean. This would be good enough for me for starters.

Though the idea to have some 'container item' that holds different 'source items' together is very cool. Glueing REX slices would destroy the REXability. And these containers will be handy for other purposes, too. (see the amalgamation or whatsitcalled thread)

I don't know why, but I don't like glueing... especially with midi, but that's another discussion.
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Old 08-24-2008, 09:23 AM   #97
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it seems to me that this is another ++1 for BBB's amalgamation items!

because the gluing defeats the purpose of have the slices to work with. selecting all can be come cumbersome and time consuming.

but if it were in a container ala amalgamation part then we'd have the best of both worlds and many more pluses too.

incidentally, this is the third or fourth issue for which the amalgamation item/part would be perfect!


but in the interim, perhaps rex items should be grouped on import.

.t

edit:
Imagine the rex item as an amalgamation item. Open it in the amalga editor... exploe the slices across lanes/tracks within the part... and the crud you could do. !!!
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Old 08-24-2008, 10:11 AM   #98
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I'll take what I can get, but I'll push (annoyingly) for getting what I want = Reaper innovation for Rex handling!
And this little gif from Boka has to be one of the slickest handlings I have seen... exceeded only/perhaps by live 7


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Old 08-24-2008, 10:32 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Tallisman View Post

And this little gif from Boka has to be one of the slickest handlings I have seen... exceeded only/perhaps by live 7


.t
yeah that's sick, and it is actually AP! I hope RX2 will speed up the devs that the AP is really really necessary...
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Old 08-24-2008, 11:50 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by Tallisman View Post
it seems to me that this is another ++1 for BBB's amalgamation items!

because the gluing defeats the purpose of have the slices to work with. selecting all can be come cumbersome and time consuming.
For now those items could just be grouped, which will keep them moving together...
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Old 08-24-2008, 01:06 PM   #101
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For now those items could just be grouped, which will keep them moving together...
To be honest,I do not agree with you! group/ungroup items is ok if u do it once or twice, few times...but for longer term AP is da way, that is the future!

please...
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Old 08-24-2008, 01:57 PM   #102
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I'm glad to see this happening. I think the issue here will be continuing to identify the slices as Recycle slices (time based slices) after the import.

If you change the tempo after the import will the slices move accordingly if they're grouped or ungrouped? If they do then that will pretty much cover it I think. I guess the track timebase would automatically get set to beats.

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Old 08-24-2008, 03:43 PM   #103
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I think the issue here will be continuing to identify the slices as Recycle slices (time based slices) after the import.

If you change the tempo after the import will the slices move accordingly if they're grouped or ungrouped? If they do then that will pretty much cover it I think.
that is of paramount importance... it is not rex support if the slices do not maintain relative beat positioning before, after and through tempo changes.

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Old 08-24-2008, 09:35 PM   #104
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Old 08-25-2008, 12:28 AM   #105
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very very nice!
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Old 08-25-2008, 12:37 AM   #106
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very nice indeed!



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Old 08-25-2008, 03:01 AM   #107
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This would make me very happy.
Nice discussion btw
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Old 08-25-2008, 04:53 AM   #108
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Quote:
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but take a rex loop into live or cubase and then move it around. what happens?

.t
T
Yeah, I guess I see your point from the examples. I just haven't needed to use the tempo sync feature of them and kinda forgot about truthfully. And my thought was just to group it when it was brought in move as necessary, manipulate as necessary. I guess it's all moot now after seeing what's going on.
and haven't used cubase at all, and never really got on with Live.
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Old 08-26-2008, 07:26 AM   #109
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I'm going to add another aspect here;

- many (all?) RX2 files represent an inherent groove,
- so it would be valuable to export the groove from the RX2 file into a MIDI Clip,
- and then use the clip to play the slices in the RX2 file.

Of course you can also rearrange the notes in the MIDI clip to create different loops using the same groove.

Here's an example:
[IMG]http://img237.**************/img237/4462/dsrx2regrooveya2.th.png[/IMG]
Big pic:
http://img237.**************/img237/4...egrooveya2.png

- I have put the RX2 file on two tracks and edited them to have alternate slices (just so you can see them more clearly),
- the third track is the extracted groove in a MIDI Clip,
- the fourth track is a rearranged MIDI Clip, keeping the groove

One thing; you can see that the RX2 slices overlap, so ideally each generated note would be the full length of the slice, rather than cut off when the next note starts (as in this example); then you can reverse slices and play them back fully.
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Old 08-26-2008, 07:32 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
I'm going to add another aspect here;

- many (all?) RX2 files represent an inherent groove,
- so it would be valuable to export the groove from the RX2 file into a MIDI Clip,
- and then use the clip to play the slices in the RX2 file.

Of course you can also rearrange the notes in the MIDI clip to create different loops using the same groove.

Here's an example:
[IMG]http://img237.**************/img237/4462/dsrx2regrooveya2.th.png[/IMG]
Big pic:
http://img237.**************/img237/4...egrooveya2.png

- I have put the RX2 file on two tracks and edited them to have alternate slices (just so you can see them more clearly),
- the third track is the extracted groove in a MIDI Clip,
- the fourth track is a rearranged MIDI Clip, keeping the groove

One thing; you can see that the RX2 slices overlap, so ideally each generated note would be the full length of the slice, rather than cut off when the next note starts (as in this example); then you can reverse slices and play them back fully.

image-line vst-plugin "slicex" nearly perfected this one.
it´s worth a look!
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Old 08-27-2008, 03:50 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
- so it would be valuable to export the groove from the RX2 file into a MIDI Clip
Hi Darkstar!
I understand you, but :

Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
...REX2 files actually do not contain MIDI data, they contain only audio slices. (The ReCycle app itself can export a loop as MIDI, but not in the form of a REX2 file.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by boka View Post
I don't think this midi stuff is very important if rx2 support gets added. You can move your cursor to the next transient in the selected item in Reaper, create your own slices (with crossfades), then build up a new groove using multitakes...

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Old 08-27-2008, 08:11 AM   #112
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I beg to differ.

please please, pretty pretty please.
the Groove to midi is very important.
perhaps it could be done after the fact like such:

if Reaper had some sort of transient detector... one that was used to split items, then perhaps it could have a tick box that reads create midi file.

then we could draw a time selection on an item... use the detector to split that according to the auto-detected (and manually tweaked) transients... enable the midi file output and pressing go would: split the time selection out of the original item. Turn it into schwa groovy rex grouped item and place a midi item below it in FIPM mode! Even better would be the option to add groove to midi/grid template, which I envision as part of Groove quantize evolved... imagine having the ability to superimpose a groove from a midi item or audio item on the arrange time line as a snap-to grid (in addition to the midi editor as a quantize grid)


*wipes drool

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Old 08-27-2008, 08:57 AM   #113
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Tallis, on importing an existing REX item (which never contains any MIDI information), do you think Reaper should optionally create some MIDI? If so, what? I don't follow this.
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Old 08-27-2008, 09:18 AM   #114
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Tallis, on importing an existing REX item (which never contains any MIDI information), do you think Reaper should optionally create some MIDI? If so, what? I don't follow this.
Yes optionally.
One note for each slice, and the note length should equal the length of the slice. the notes should be placed chromatically starting at C1 moving up.

this opens a ton of possibilities. Often I will then take that midi and use it to trigger doubles to add oomph to the drum hits. And having the Rex midi as a starting point saves much time.

thanks for asking!


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Old 08-27-2008, 10:21 AM   #115
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Yes optionally.
One note for each slice, and the note length should equal the length of the slice. the notes should be placed chromatically starting at C1 moving up.

this opens a ton of possibilities. Often I will then take that midi and use it to trigger doubles to add oomph to the drum hits. And having the Rex midi as a starting point saves much time.

thanks for asking!


.t
Yeah, It is really helpful when layering from samplers and other stuff. It would save me from creating and importing a midifile from recycle.

/Per
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Old 08-27-2008, 11:34 AM   #116
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Yep, what Tallis said.
I am not sure if they convert amplitude to velocity, but it could be useful, I think.




Btw, If the REX thing is implemented via Reapers ordinary groups it would be cool if grouped items could be indicated somehow visually also when not selected, I was so free to mock this up in the pic...

I am thinking of different colored borders for different groups. And if the items are consecutive on one track (with or without gaps), the border could just reach from the first to the last item without a line on each item start and end.

EDIT: And, if you're planning to implement the midi-conversion, I'd like to see it as a task possible for any bunch of items selected (consecutively on one track), rather than an import option only for REX files

*slobber*

'nother edit... I accidentaly missed out the c#1 note when I faked the midifile for the pic. Sorry of course it's meant to be notes from c1 upwards.

Last edited by gofer; 08-27-2008 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 08-27-2008, 12:32 PM   #117
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velocity should be 127 for all notes.
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Old 08-27-2008, 12:38 PM   #118
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why Dstruct? it seems to me that relative velocities wold be best, 127 being associated with the loudest transient and everything else based on that.

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Last edited by Tallisman; 08-27-2008 at 12:41 PM.
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Old 08-27-2008, 12:45 PM   #119
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why Dstruct?
because if you put the slices in a sampler vsti (which reacts to velocity values by default) you would get a totally different result.

each slice has to be triggered with full velocity to get the same output from the sampler compared to the rex (audio) file.
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Old 08-27-2008, 12:49 PM   #120
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because if you put the slices in a sampler vsti (which reacts to velocity values by default) you would get a totally different result.

each slice has to be triggered with full velocity to get the same output from the sampler compared to the rex (audio) file.
oh... so you trigger the same samples in the sampler... see I often use the midi to trigger entirely different samples - using the rex midi data for feel and if I could clone the velocities then it would sound much more natural.

I still vote for capturing the relative velocity, as it is easy enough to select all notes and drag the handle... much easier than going the other direction.

whatdoyathinkofthat?
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