Old 10-08-2011, 02:17 PM   #1
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Default Time for a control surface

So I have been loving Reaper and now I want to use a control surface with it. Which ones work, which work great, which ones should you stay away from?

Is Reaper going to be Eucon enabled?

Thanks
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Old 10-08-2011, 02:29 PM   #2
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I don't know about Eucon. I have a alphatrack and a novation ZeroSL mkii. I use the alphatrack more with Reaper host and the zero with plugs. If I had only one the Zero would be more vesatlie with Padres's plugin giving a best of both Automap and dynamic reaper control. I would miss the alphatracks fader and useful mixing setup though.
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Old 10-08-2011, 06:55 PM   #3
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Any full featured higher end control surfaces working with reaper?

I found the list of compatible surfaces on the site (I do not want a behringer or mackie) and all of those do not seem to control the software on a deep enough level. So are we screwed when it comes to professional control surfaces? Anything in a large format?

Last edited by Nick Morris; 10-12-2011 at 01:55 PM. Reason: clearer wording :)
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Old 10-08-2011, 08:48 PM   #4
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These are all "professional control surfaces"

Solid State Logic Matrix...
http://www.solidstatelogic.com/music/matrix/page_2.asp

Tascam DM-3200 or DM-4800...http://tascam.com/products/mixer/

Mackie D8B...http://www.mackie.com/products/d8b_v5/

Tascam FW-1884...http://tascam.com/product/fw-1884/
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Old 10-08-2011, 09:17 PM   #5
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So are you saying the matrix works with reaper? Does anyone have experience with a high end control surface?
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Old 10-08-2011, 10:09 PM   #6
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I'm using the MCU Pro. It's a little bit buggy. http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=74487
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Old 10-09-2011, 05:39 AM   #7
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Default this is so frustrating

I can't believe this. I cannot find a single thread about a control surface success story. Nothing seems to work 100%. Why is everything buggy when it comes to a control surface?
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Old 10-09-2011, 06:28 AM   #8
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I have a Tascam FW-1884. I use it with Reaper with no problem. When I first set up I assumed I had to use the "Control Surfaces" set up in Options>Preferences menu. I then just added it as an MIDI Device and it just works.
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Old 10-09-2011, 06:50 AM   #9
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Quote:
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I can't believe this. I cannot find a single thread about a control surface success story. Nothing seems to work 100%. Why is everything buggy when it comes to a control surface?
yes it's sad, i can't use my 02R96 too...
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Old 10-09-2011, 07:01 AM   #10
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Ok, we have one confirmed working (tascam fx-1884). I assume the ones in the control surface preference page work. Other than that we have nothing?

Does everyone just live with buggy control surfaces like its part of being a reaper user?
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Old 10-09-2011, 07:35 AM   #11
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My cute Presonus Faderport works quite well, but that's only one (rather nice) fader. I'm not a big fan of the buttons, as they require a lot of force to press, but apart from that it's a good, inexpensive unit that I wish had four faders, and not just one.

The Mackie Control Universal is pretty nice with the Klinke plugin, if you're on Windows.

So far however, while being very usable, nothing comes close to responsiveness of the ethernet controllers of Euphonix and Avid(former now part of the latter). The old Procontrol was leaps and bounds better than any MCU I ever used. The Icons are better than that, as are the Euphonix System 5 units, but those cost a lot.

EuCon integration might change that, as I'm sure Avid won't mind selling Icons to folks who don't use Protools in the future. They'r elikely to make new controllers too in the future, so the number of devices you could use will probably go up.

Fun fact on responsiveness of the Presonus Faderport. Don't use a USB hub, but hook it up to your machine directly. Faster response. I use it in HUI mode in Protools over a direct line(fast response though slower than any ethernet controller I've ever used), and in Reaper via a USB hub, because I can, and the latency is higher.


What is nice about Reaper though is that you can use pretty much any midi controller as a control source.

Actual mapping of control resources to dynamically changing targets however requires a custom control surface plugin to be written, which pretty much excludes 99.99 % or more of the user base from implementing their own ideas.

If you want a control surface plugin for a particular device, there is the developer forum section and of course you can request support from it from Cockos via the Issue Tracker.
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Old 10-09-2011, 08:17 AM   #12
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I would really like to be able to use a Eucon control surface. I have used the System 5-mc with my previous DAW, Pyramix and now with pro tools. it is amazing how much faster I can edit/work with it. I have gotten so used to it, that now the mousing around is really depressing. I stare at the computer for several minutes contemplating whether or not to actually start the project in pro tools rather than Reaper, just so I can use the control surface.

At my studio, I am the only one using Reaper. Everyone there loves it, but will not use it because it can't be controlled by the Euphonix.

In the end it all comes down to what you can get done quickly. Reaper is by far the best DAW for getting things done quickly, in my opinion of course. The problem is that it is not the quickest as soon as you get to add these control surfaces to even the clunkiest of programs. Suddenly, pro tools is much more solid and elegant to work with, leaving reaper in the dust for most. I think it is time for some real attention to getting control surfaces functioning with Reaper. Eucon seems like the most logical approach. Euphonix/Avid already have cheap (artist series) surfaces that work well, and higher end professional surfaces that can meet the needs of the biggest production studios. (a ton of these control surfaces have been sold, my studio being one of them.)

Until the users of these control surfaces can actually control Reaper, they will stay with Pro Tools, or Nuendo or Pyramix, because they are more efficient that way.
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Old 10-11-2011, 05:05 AM   #13
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Default NANO

The Korg Nanokontrol 1 and 2 both work really well for almost no money.

I am selling my behringer bcf2000, which also works and of course has flying faders, because the Kontrols are jsut so easy to set up, do all I need in terms of mixing and transport control, plus they take up a minute amount of desk space.
Once you stop thinking in terms of a conventional monster sized mixing console, it becomes a real contender.
Of course, much less useful if you want to use it on vsts, etc., but I do so little heavy duty knob twiddling compared with the muting soloing and mixing side of things, the nanos suit my way of working to a T.

I currently fit 2 kontrols and a pad in the depth of desk space previously occupied by ONE BCF2000.
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Old 10-11-2011, 05:35 AM   #14
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I'm reading this thread carefully. Seems to be quite a few Control Surface threads pumping at the moment. Has there been any response from Cockos on this?

The only negative on Nanopads is that they aren't motorised faders. If they were, I'd be all over them.

For what I want, I'm leaning towards the Euphonix mix desk, but want to wait and see what Reaper does with their support (either yay or nay) before I purchase. If Studio One supports Eucon, then I'd be interested in peeking over the fence to take a look at that.
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Old 10-11-2011, 07:44 AM   #15
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Default Control Surface Icon Qcon

Hi, I'm using the Icon Qcon for some time now and am quite happy with it.
(http://www.icon-global.com/ShowPro.aspx?ID=101).

Indeed, it is not fully "integrated", but is able to go well in Mackie Control-mode. For me it is good enough, has 9 touch-sensitive motorized channel faders (8+1 master), LCD display and a real, real console feel. It's quite heavy and somehow going "against" the current trend to iMinimize everything. And it's about 500€ - which is a real bargain.

Some more details here on my page (unfortunately in German): http://www.floyd-groener.de/2011/07/...ler-qcon-icon/
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Old 10-11-2011, 07:52 AM   #16
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way out there, but has anyone tried a Tango?

http://www.smartav.net/
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Old 10-11-2011, 08:12 AM   #17
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way out there, but has anyone tried a Tango?

http://www.smartav.net/

I have to sell my car first...
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Old 10-11-2011, 10:23 AM   #18
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I can't believe this. I cannot find a single thread about a control surface success story. Nothing seems to work 100%. Why is everything buggy when it comes to a control surface?
This is where reaper's price factor comes in, I guess.
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:29 PM   #19
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frustrated daily with this. Eucon where are you?
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Old 10-11-2011, 01:01 PM   #20
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Dude, I use an AlphaTrack with no problem.

I also use a Faderport with no problems.
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Old 10-11-2011, 02:13 PM   #21
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way out there, but has anyone tried a Tango?

http://www.smartav.net/
Not willing to put up the money to test out equipment. No time for that.
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Old 10-11-2011, 02:18 PM   #22
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the faderport and alphatrack are really not going to get it done in a real studio. One fader? Maybe a laptop producer or home studio could find this useful.

I use an system 5-mc with protools, used to use it with pyramix, and now I would really like to stop using protools at the studio and stick with reaper. Eucon is a must at my place. It speeds up the workflow so much that nobody wants to touch Reaper there.

Professional control surfaces are needed.
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Old 10-11-2011, 02:44 PM   #23
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the faderport and alphatrack are really not going to get it done in a real studio. One fader? Maybe a laptop producer or home studio could find this useful.

I use an system 5-mc with protools, used to use it with pyramix, and now I would really like to stop using protools at the studio and stick with reaper. Eucon is a must at my place. It speeds up the workflow so much that nobody wants to touch Reaper there.

Professional control surfaces are needed.
Ah yes, elitist snobbery at its finest. One day I hope I can grow up and be as great as you and have a "real" studio. Please sir, will you belittle us poor folk with pretend studios some more?
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Old 10-11-2011, 02:47 PM   #24
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I have two Yamaha boards gathering dust because all I want from them is a control surface with a ton of faders. I have been asking for this for years and have used them beautifully with other DAWs. With every Reaper upgrade, I look for this and sniff-sniff. I love Reaper though and maybe someday I will be able to mix down like I used to. I am willing to pay a small fortune for this functionality but then a small fortune in these tough economic times is kind of subjective now isn't it.
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Old 10-11-2011, 06:00 PM   #25
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Default control surface

I use the M-audio projectmix i/o with no problems at all
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Old 10-11-2011, 06:19 PM   #26
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are you able to control vsts with it? if you are, are you getting feedback on the csurf from the vsts? Can you control sends with it? width?
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Old 10-11-2011, 06:32 PM   #27
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...(snip)....

In the end it all comes down to what you can get done quickly. Reaper is by far the best DAW for getting things done quickly, in my opinion of course. The problem is that it is not the quickest as soon as you get to add these control surfaces to even the clunkiest of programs. Suddenly, pro tools is much more solid and elegant to work with, leaving reaper in the dust for most. I think it is time for some real attention to getting control surfaces functioning with Reaper....(snip)...
Until the users of these control surfaces can actually control Reaper, they will stay with Pro Tools, or Nuendo or Pyramix, because they are more efficient that way.
This is really the crux of it. It's like a brand new car manufacturer putting out the fastest, most technologically advanced car the world has ever seen. And inside this car everything from the accelerator, brakes, radio, sat nav, seats, etc is all controlled from the steering wheel.... and you can only press one button at a time. Might be fun to play with, but you could never do any serious driving in it.
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Old 10-11-2011, 06:52 PM   #28
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are you able to control vsts with it? if you are, are you getting feedback on the csurf from the vsts? Can you control sends with it? width?
I've managed to Automate sends in the AlphaTrack plugin but not by using the API method (as it doesn't work). I do it by sending MIDI CC values to the command 'Automation lane: Set active fader (MIDI CC only)'. However, this is a one way communication, there is no feedback.

I'm fairly sure there are no events to capture when automation or FX parameters change. Only basic things like volume, pan, main mute etc raise events in the SDK and thus can send feedback to the controller. Feel free to correct me anyone and point me in the right direction if I have this wrong.

I do agree with the OP, control surfaces do need a bit of lovin. Maybe we could ask Justin and the boys to down tools for a bit jump on this.
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Old 10-11-2011, 08:36 PM   #29
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Ah yes, elitist snobbery at its finest. One day I hope I can grow up and be as great as you and have a "real" studio. Please sir, will you belittle us poor folk with pretend studios some more?
Seriously? I don't mean to belittle you. I just do not think products like the alphatrack or faderport belong in the discussion of a professional control surface. (They have one fader, and are NOT aimed at replacing a keyboard or mouse, but to work along side them). If they work for you and do everything you need, well great.

I would love to see a commercial studio doing work on a faderport.

Who knows, maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt it.
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Old 10-11-2011, 08:41 PM   #30
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are you able to control vsts with it? if you are, are you getting feedback on the csurf from the vsts? Can you control sends with it? width?
Glad someone understands that there needs to be some deep control, not just a moving fader and a pan pot.
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Old 10-11-2011, 08:49 PM   #31
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Seriously? I don't mean to belittle you. I just do not think products like the alphatrack or faderport belong in the discussion of a professional control surface. (They have one fader, and are NOT aimed at replacing a keyboard or mouse, but to work along side them). If they work for you and do everything you need, well great.

I would love to see a commercial studio doing work on a faderport.

Who knows, maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt it.
http://www.imagingdogs.com/
The Reaper user 'Pascal' works for this radio production company and he uses the AlphaTrack. He actually helped design the automation control of the plugin and tested it.

I think the question is really what is a commercial studio these days when anyone with a PC and some cheap hardware can get a very good quality production.
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Old 10-11-2011, 09:31 PM   #32
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http://www.imagingdogs.com/
The Reaper user 'Pascal' works for this radio production company and he uses the AlphaTrack. He actually helped design the automation control of the plugin and tested it.

I think the question is really what is a commercial studio these days when anyone with a PC and some cheap hardware can get a very good quality production.
Well, there you go. We found one. I do not know, but I am assuming that this is a one man studio(radio production) where outside producers do not come through with artists they are working with. This kind of studio would be perfect for this type of controller.
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Old 10-11-2011, 09:35 PM   #33
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MCU Pro + Extender + Klinke DLL.... no problems here
(not since warranty upgrade to Mackie 4.0 versions of both)

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Old 10-11-2011, 09:55 PM   #34
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Well, there you go. We found one. I do not know, but I am assuming that this is a one man studio(radio production) where outside producers do not come through with artists they are working with. This kind of studio would be perfect for this type of controller.
No doubt. But I think you've kinda derailed your own thread a bit here. Regardless of what type of controller you have, it would be great if the devs spent a bit more time fleshing out the support.

It's great that they have an API, but it doesn't quite have all the connectors to fully flesh out the more feature rich controllers.

If anyone should be writing plugin software, it should be the manufacturers. If enough people approach them they'll see Reaper as a serious player in the market and write some good plugins.
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Old 10-12-2011, 02:28 AM   #35
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Quote:
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If anyone should be writing plugin software, it should be the manufacturers
Yeah, typically this is the way it's done.

I have done contract programming for hardware control surface manufacturers.

As an example I coded up software interfaces for Cubendo, DP, Sonar, etc. for one manufacturer, so that's the ad hoc standard method.

Until Reaper I'd never heard of the devs for a particular DAW coding up any control surface solution.
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Old 10-12-2011, 05:34 AM   #36
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Yeah, typically this is the way it's done.

I have done contract programming for hardware control surface manufacturers.

As an example I coded up software interfaces for Cubendo, DP, Sonar, etc. for one manufacturer, so that's the ad hoc standard method.

Until Reaper I'd never heard of the devs for a particular DAW coding up any control surface solution.
Time to bother the hardware folks then.
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Old 10-12-2011, 12:53 PM   #37
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Time to bother the hardware folks then.
Ain't going to happen because Cubendo is in bed with Yamaha and Sonar is in bed with Roland etc. and they do not want their gear working with Reaper.
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Old 10-12-2011, 12:59 PM   #38
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Really? Is that speculation or is that really how hard it is going to be to get proper control surface integration into Reaper?

Maybe Cockos could slut it up a bit and get in bed with some hardware makers too!
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Old 10-12-2011, 01:35 PM   #39
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Well, mackie isn't yet in bed with anyone. Maybe it's time to knock their doors down. The first manufacturer to fully support reaper is going to sell a bunch of additional units. What would be the best way to get Mackie's attention on this?
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Old 10-12-2011, 01:43 PM   #40
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agreed.
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