Old 01-31-2006, 05:50 PM   #1
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Default 0.56 tasty

here you guys go.
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Old 01-31-2006, 06:24 PM   #2
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Yay!!

I see we can now doulble click on the faders to bring them to unity gain. I love it.

Thanks again
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Old 01-31-2006, 07:41 PM   #3
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I'm really liking the new folder functionality and the time stamped project backups. The built in click will be nice, too...
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Old 01-31-2006, 08:32 PM   #4
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Fighting the damn posi in a new rearend, so I missed this release. Just checking it out now. See grids without snapping is GREAT!!!!
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Old 01-31-2006, 08:45 PM   #5
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This "never more than" "never less than" thing in the tempo display options is GREAT!!!!

Usualy I have a key on the MCU set to 1/4 notes then one for 1/8 one for 1/16 etc. With this system I could see myself doin a lot less of that since I can always have the grids I want without having too many grids!

GREAT!!!

I like the new measuring tool as well.

I think I am going to edit a single tempo song tonite in here!
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Old 01-31-2006, 10:37 PM   #6
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the ability to save the default track chain with the bypass flag on isnt there yet right?
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Old 01-31-2006, 10:53 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio
the ability to save the default track chain with the bypass flag on isnt there yet right?
Ah yes, not yet, forgot about that one
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Old 01-31-2006, 10:55 PM   #8
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going very good here Justin! This is a working release for sure. This mix just needs editing and mixing, will likely not require any sort of plugin automation and is one tempo.

Start to finish this mix on Reaper I hope!

Seems I am catching some flak from one of the harddrives. Did you say certain buffer settings may improve HD performance?
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Old 01-31-2006, 11:12 PM   #9
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How do you know when events are grouped?

And is there a key modifier to temporarily group over ride?

Last edited by pipelineaudio; 01-31-2006 at 11:14 PM.
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Old 01-31-2006, 11:27 PM   #10
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Group override for moving things? Ctrl usually does that.

I need to make it show the grouped items in a slightly diff color, shouldn't be too bad.

As far as buffering, I'd say try bigger blocks and more buffers, try higher priority thread too.. in general try different things and see what happens...
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Old 01-31-2006, 11:33 PM   #11
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where do I find blocks? I see buffers

Control for group override works perfect thanks!

I was looking around at some other apps, and I think maybe you wont even need the end of folder track, some nifty tricks out there.
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Old 01-31-2006, 11:42 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio
where do I find blocks? I see buffers

Control for group override works perfect thanks!

I was looking around at some other apps, and I think maybe you wont even need the end of folder track, some nifty tricks out there.
buffers, blocks, whatever

the end of folder track is already in there, though.. you tried it, right?

-Justin
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Old 01-31-2006, 11:46 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
buffers, blocks, whatever

the end of folder track is already in there, though.. you tried it, right?

-Justin
Yup, working perfect, except

theres always an except, but it would be nice to still have an Accept, but anyway

If you move the folder ender track up in the folder, all the other tracks in the folder pop out of the folder. Thats why I was thinking another method might be cooler, or a way for the folder ender to get "sticky" in position and just be at the last track.
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Old 01-31-2006, 11:53 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio
Yup, working perfect, except

theres always an except, but it would be nice to still have an Accept, but anyway

If you move the folder ender track up in the folder, all the other tracks in the folder pop out of the folder. Thats why I was thinking another method might be cooler, or a way for the folder ender to get "sticky" in position and just be at the last track.
Well, I like it that way...
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Old 01-31-2006, 11:56 PM   #15
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So I think the next step with the grid is to have time signature change events, which will go on the master track. the event will basically change the BPM and beats per measure until the next event...

That being said, it's very tempting to make the click sources just do that. The UI work would be non-existant. Any big objections to that? Might be less than obvious I suppose...

-Justin
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Old 02-01-2006, 12:01 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
So I think the next step with the grid is to have time signature change events, which will go on the master track. the event will basically change the BPM and beats per measure until the next event...

That being said, it's very tempting to make the click sources just do that. The UI work would be non-existant. Any big objections to that? Might be less than obvious I suppose...

-Justin
the click doing it would avail nothing for editing, unless Im missing something

Soon people will be beating down your door. Theyll be asking to be able to use acid loops and whatnot. Tempo changes open the door for that

Also the MIDIots will be in, and they will like the tempo changes.

Also if Im understanding VST tempo sync, thats going to need it

Some will need grids more than others but....youll probably have to bite the bullet and do the whole deal sooner or later

Weve seen some put it off for so long that 6 years later they cant fix it
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Old 02-01-2006, 12:09 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
So I think the next step with the grid is to have time signature change events, which will go on the master track. the event will basically change the BPM and beats per measure until the next event...

That being said, it's very tempting to make the click sources just do that. The UI work would be non-existant. Any big objections to that? Might be less than obvious I suppose...

-Justin
Hi Justin,

I don't think "click sources" is the way to go. As someone mentioned in an earlier thread it's best to be able to gradually change tempo rather than having an abrupt tempo change at a marker point (though that should still be an option).

If you're going to put time signature info in the Master track it would be great to have a tempo envelope so you can smooth transitions between markers.

Looking forward to trying 0.56 tonight ....

Cheers,

Malcolm.
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Old 02-01-2006, 12:13 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio
the click doing it would avail nothing for editing, unless Im missing something
I meant make the click sources act as timesig change events. but I'm not gonna do that, I'll do new events.
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Old 02-01-2006, 12:15 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malcolmj
Hi Justin,

I don't think "click sources" is the way to go. As someone mentioned in an earlier thread it's best to be able to gradually change tempo rather than having an abrupt tempo change at a marker point (though that should still be an option).

If you're going to put time signature info in the Master track it would be great to have a tempo envelope so you can smooth transitions between markers.

Looking forward to trying 0.56 tonight ....

Cheers,

Malcolm.
I just meant the click sources acting as timesig change events.

Anyway, yes, I will do a tempo envelope eventually-- initially I just want to do static change events, since that will be much less work and still useful. Once that's in, I'll add an envelope, too.

The main thing for doing a BPM envelope that I need to figure out is how to quickly go from time->beat+measure and back. it ends up being the area under a curve, so either I will need to brute force it (which is probably not so bad) or find some way to do it quicker...

-Justin
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Old 02-01-2006, 12:35 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
I meant make the click sources act as timesig change events. but I'm not gonna do that, I'll do new events.
I dont get it. Not sure what a click source is.

ALl my simpleton mind understands is if I see it reflected in the grid or not
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Old 02-01-2006, 12:53 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio
I dont get it. Not sure what a click source is.

ALl my simpleton mind understands is if I see it reflected in the grid or not
You would see it reflected anyway, but I'm not going to do it. A click source is a click track event that you can insert via the insert menu. the idea was that it could notify the rest of the project "hey, I'm tempo information!". But anyway, f that.


So disregard that and my other mention of "tempo change" events. I'm just going to do an envelope in the master track, which is a "tempo adjustment" envelope. You set the base tempo BPM in the project settings, then this envelope lets you do +/- whatever BPM as points. That seem reasonable? or should the envelope let you specify the absolute BPM? thinking the former is in order..

-J
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Old 02-01-2006, 01:00 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
So disregard that and my other mention of "tempo change" events. I'm just going to do an envelope in the master track, which is a "tempo adjustment" envelope. You set the base tempo BPM in the project settings, then this envelope lets you do +/- whatever BPM as points. That seem reasonable? or should the envelope let you specify the absolute BPM? thinking the former is in order..

-J
as long as there IS a way to specify the exact BPM

likely I and some others will only use complete tempo changes, which we wouldnt care if we just placed in with a marker. As long as the bpm of this master tempo track thing is able to be entered even by hand, or something, should be fine

Do however, you havent let us down yet
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Old 02-01-2006, 01:20 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio
as long as there IS a way to specify the exact BPM

likely I and some others will only use complete tempo changes, which we wouldnt care if we just placed in with a marker. As long as the bpm of this master tempo track thing is able to be entered even by hand, or something, should be fine

Do however, you havent let us down yet
Yes, I will make something so you can right click on an envelope point and do "set value to...", this would be useful in general for envelopes.

but yes, if you set the envelope with sharp changes at your points, it would do what you want. That cool?

-Justin
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Old 02-01-2006, 01:25 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
Yes, I will make something so you can right click on an envelope point and do "set value to...", this would be useful in general for envelopes.

but yes, if you set the envelope with sharp changes at your points, it would do what you want. That cool?

-Justin
PERFECT! That will be most welcome!
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Old 02-01-2006, 03:37 AM   #25
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I can’t find where you change the tempo...and how do you do this folder track thing?
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Old 02-01-2006, 04:38 AM   #26
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Default time, snap and sync .... etc

Hi Justin,

A few questions about how the concept of time, snap and sync work in 0.56 ...

1. The Project BPM doesn't seem to have any effect on audio items. If I change the BPM the grid display changes, but the items don't stretch or resize to match the new BPM. Is this the intended behaviour?

2. When I selected "Snap selection to grid" I expected the item to snap to the nearest grid point when I released it. They don't appear to snap unless the item is very close to the grid line. Is this the intended behaviour?

3. The Project BPM settings still don't have any affect on VST plugin tempos. I take it this is still a to-do?

4. I'm sure this one has been mentioned somewhere before, but how do I get the tranport to loop the playback of the selected loop?

On an unrelated note, the FX window isn't auto-resizing with all plugins. Do you want a list of the buggy ones?

Cheers,

Malcolm.
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Old 02-01-2006, 04:42 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weevil
I can’t find where you change the tempo...and how do you do this folder track thing?
Alt+Enter to get to the Project Settings, then click on the "Project Tempo" tab.

The greyed-out button to the right of the folder/track name field allows you to set the Folders. Click once to set a track as the master Folder track. Click again to deselect. Click on the same button on the track that you want to be the last track within that folder.
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Old 02-01-2006, 10:31 AM   #28
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malcolm,

I'm pretty sure this is the desired behavior, on the first two anyway. This is how I've seen it work in other apps. Ideally you'd set up the tempo and time signatures before you record the song, and using the click track and grid lines as rhythm guides.

For #4, press R or hit the circular arrow to the right of the main record button.
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Old 02-01-2006, 10:39 AM   #29
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"1. The Project BPM doesn't seem to have any effect on audio items. If I change the BPM the grid display changes, but the items don't stretch or resize to match the new BPM. Is this the intended behaviour?"

Yeah! the tempo is the reference grid for the audio, not the speed of it. As it should be. BUT if he adds the acid type stretching or whatever ANY you specify that track as a tempo based one, or however he implements it, THEN it would change as you changed tempo

"4. I'm sure this one has been mentioned somewhere before, but how do I get the tranport to loop the playback of the selected loop?"

to the right of the record button on the transport is the loop switch
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Old 02-01-2006, 11:15 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
Yes, I will make something so you can right click on an envelope point and do "set value to...", this would be useful in general for envelopes.

but yes, if you set the envelope with sharp changes at your points, it would do what you want. That cool?

-Justin
Justin,
I like your thoughts so far for the tempo envelope. Here's how I'm kind of envisioning it right now. Everyone let me know your thoughts.

1. You have a master tempo "track" with an envelope that looks just like and functions just like a volume envelope.
2. Additionally, you can enter tempo information into the tempo dialog box.
3. Whatever you have entered as your project tempo, becomes the first envelope point.
4. If you enter a new tempo value into the Tempo dialog box, this creates a new Tempo point on the tempo envelope, just like if you right clicked and selected "Set Tempo". It will enter that tempo point at the place where your current cursor position is located.
5. Also if you right click on the tempo envelope on the master tempo track and select "Set Tempo point/change", then the tempo display dialog box also updates to reflect this new tempo. Thus the dialog box acts as a current cursor position display of the current tempo at that particular cursor location as well as allowing you to enter tempo changes onto the tempo envelope.
6. Then an option like a "mute" button or "disable Tempo track" or "bypass tempo track" on the Master Tempo track header. When this button is enabled, then Reaper would only respond to the Tempo information currently entered into the tempo dialog box.

Hopefully that all makes sense to everyone.

Red

Last edited by Rednroll; 02-01-2006 at 01:13 PM.
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Old 02-01-2006, 11:53 AM   #31
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Seems like it covers everything I can concieve of needing for me.
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Old 02-01-2006, 03:12 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio
Yeah! the tempo is the reference grid for the audio, not the speed of it. As it should be. BUT if he adds the acid type stretching or whatever ANY you specify that track as a tempo based one, or however he implements it, THEN it would change as you changed tempo
"As it should be" depends on your perspective. If REAPER is only going to be a digital version of a multitrack then there's no need to add the option of making the audio items stretch to match the tempo, but the apps I'm used to using have this ability either by default or as an option.

Same with "snap to grid" - all of the apps I'm used to using snap to the closest grid point when you turn that feature on, regardless of how close the item is to the grid marker, so not having this behaviour is strange to me (not wrong, just different).

I've never used Vegas so I'm unfamiliar with its work environment. It will be interesting to see how many non-Vegas ideas make it into the final version of REAPER.

Cheers,

Malcolm.
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Old 02-01-2006, 03:13 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rednroll
Hopefully that all makes sense to everyone.
Sounds spot on to me
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Old 02-01-2006, 03:38 PM   #34
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"As it should be" depends on your perspective. "

Ahh I will be clearer, I was a bit short.

I approach this from the doctor's oath " first do no harm"

If its a waveform that I recorded to be as it is, it will not be stretched or shrunk or sped or slowed unless I tell it to. It will continue on its merry way regardless of what any tempo change happens

However, if its a loop track, which is made to be able to hang out confortably at a wide range of tempos, I would expect it to change with the tempo. And of course, the track above could also be made a loop track, but it better ASK me first!

For instance, I have NO USE for the tail of a cymbal track, where the cymbal was hit at a part of the song with a 120 tempo, to slow down as it rings out over a 80 bpm tempo. But I sure would like the bass groove underneath to speed up for the new tempo!

"If REAPER is only going to be a digital version of a multitrack then there's no need to add the option of making the audio items stretch to match the tempo, but the apps I'm used to using have this ability either by default or as an option."

As far as I can tell this is like the difference between a "one shot" and a "loop" in acid. Both can and will and should coexist


"Same with "snap to grid" - all of the apps I'm used to using snap to the closest grid point when you turn that feature on, regardless of how close the item is to the grid marker, so not having this behaviour is strange to me (not wrong, just different)."

I just like seeing the grids and not having snapping LOL. Im sure justin will work out this behaviour you want. I mean if other app makers could do it, it should be less than a no brainer for him
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Old 02-01-2006, 04:13 PM   #35
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Everything Pipeline just said makes perfect sense to me.
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Old 02-01-2006, 10:37 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malcolmj
Sounds spot on to me
Cool, Glad everyone so far seems to like the concept. Justin has been impressing the hell out of me so far with this whole Reaper development. If he make this happen it will take him from super mortal status to Godlike status in my book. Wouldn't this be a feature kind of unique to Reaper?
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Old 02-01-2006, 11:05 PM   #37
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you know, since Im running out of things to worry about, I think it would be cool if you could make the "1" line of each measure a different color than the other three

I know I know

but really it would be cool, just a suggestion for after everything else is long done
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Old 02-01-2006, 11:23 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio
you know, since Im running out of things to worry about, I think it would be cool if you could make the "1" line of each measure a different color than the other three

I know I know

but really it would be cool, just a suggestion for after everything else is long done
yeah was just thinking that myself.

then I started thinking, it would be good to support different measure lengths as well, which may be a pain. I guess an additional envelope (quantized to integer) would do the trick...

or we can just make people deal with that, I dunno.
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Old 02-01-2006, 11:43 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
then I started thinking, it would be good to support different measure lengths as well, which may be a pain. I guess an additional envelope (quantized to integer) would do the trick...

or we can just make people deal with that, I dunno.
I have a studio tool for when people are looking at making a 3/4 time part or 13/7 balinese chukchuk

http://www.sportsdiamond.com/Product...rini-DXX03.jpg
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