v6.73+dev0113 - January 13 2023

[musicbynumbers]

Originally Posted by benmiller

if i select an item at the begining of lane 1, or on a different track and want to put it at the end of lane 2, i can do it by drag and drop, but if it's at a bigger distance on the time line this becomes unpractical (item is 2 small to be selected if you are zoomed out, or you have to drag to edge of the window to make it scroll ). beeing able to copy the item and pasting it in the desired place would be the easiest way to go. currently if an item gets always pasted to it's original lane. I would be doing this in the context of building different versions of track rather than comping.
beeing able to paste to currently playing would be helpfull, because right now you there is no way to actually select a lane (in the same way as you select a track.)

So it's the lane thing!

I agree that it would be very useful to be able to do this and if it's a bit messy to have the last lane "panel" we clicked on (or in the arrange area) to be the place to paste on to (like we can do with tracks) then as you suggested the currently playing might be the solution (although being able to select and paste to a specific lane would be much faster so hopefully it will come)!

[ferropop]

devs : can you please look at this Razor Edit quirk that's gonna creep up real quick when people start using these lanes for comping.



That action doesn't quite work right - Razor edit: Enclose media items


I'd just like to group these items together, perfectly inside a Razor Edit. So the contents of the Razor is bound perfectly to the item edges.



Also Retiming/Stretching items when edges are touching (ie, comp slices) is a particularly hairy thing to deal with.

Just putting out there as this stuff is bound to come up - hoping these nitpicks might also lead us to faster/better testing the Pres rather than getting hung up in unexpectedly-behaving actions.

[benmiller]

i would find it very helpfull to have a MM context which would be "Fixed Lane Comp Area BOTTOM HALF" the same way we already have "media item bottom half". the behaviours could default to pass through to fixed lane area. But it would allow for example to move the edit cursor easily without having to go up to the ruler every time.

this + an action for play only lane under cursor would allow auditioning the material a lot faster before starting to comp

[benmiller]

Originally Posted by ferropop

I'd just like to group these items together, perfectly inside a Razor Edit. So the contents of the Razor is bound perfectly to the item edges.

select the items (no razor area) and then "razor edit: enclose media items"
that works

edit : ah sorry now i see your issue in your gif... i don't seem to have that problem though

[bolgwrad]

Originally Posted by benmiller

off topic but: how to you insert the gif inline and not as an attachement ? thanks

[img]IMGURLINK + GIF or JPG[/img]

[benmiller]

Originally Posted by musicbynumbers

So it's the lane thing!

I agree that it would be very useful to be able to do this and if it's a bit messy to have the last lane "panel" we clicked on (or in the arrange area) to be the place to paste on to (like we can do with tracks) then as you suggested the currently playing might be the solution (although being able to select and paste to a specific lane would be much faster so hopefully it will come)!

experimenting some more i think pasting to lane under cursor could be a good way to go. Instinctively i clic on the lane i would like to paste in to, you have place the cursor there anyway to indicate where you want to paste in time.

[musicbynumbers]

Originally Posted by benmiller

experimenting some more i think pasting to lane under cursor could be a good way to go. Instinctively i clic on the lane i would like to paste in to, you have place the cursor there anyway to indicate where you want to paste in time.

Potentially as long as we can also have the action that pastes on the lane it came from so we could replace it if needed as I think for normal editing a reliable copy and paste from same lane to same lane is what most would probably use generally so both would be great.

[_Stevie_]

Originally Posted by musicbynumbers

also. please consider at some point to how these comp areas should behave when moved with either the inserting of space or with regions. They ideally should move along with them

Yes, I agree. I put a quick GIF together for visualisation. But all in all I like this direction very much. Thanks devs!

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by ferropop

devs : can you please look at this Razor Edit quirk that's gonna creep up real quick when people start using these lanes for comping.



That action doesn't quite work right - Razor edit: Enclose media items


I'd just like to group these items together, perfectly inside a Razor Edit. So the contents of the Razor is bound perfectly to the item edges.



Also Retiming/Stretching items when edges are touching (ie, comp slices) is a particularly hairy thing to deal with.

Just putting out there as this stuff is bound to come up - hoping these nitpicks might also lead us to faster/better testing the Pres rather than getting hung up in unexpectedly-behaving actions.

Stretching/adjusting the comp "multiple slices at a time" will be a super common action, and things to keep crossfades intact and all of that will be super important.

[schwa]

Originally Posted by ferropop

That action doesn't quite work right - [i]Razor edit: Enclose media items

I can't reproduce that. How are you initiating the action? Are the items overlapping?

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by schwa

I can't reproduce that. How are you initiating the action? Are the items overlapping?

I made a fresh project with the offending items:

https://file.io/dhm1KaS9buhs

Engaging the action from keyboard (mapped Alt-T for me).

[AZpercussion]

Let's look at scenario:
I recording an actor for ADR
Mostly it looks like listening a phrase from film set and then recording without stopping. So actor remember short phrase and then recreate its rhytm.
All these record passes are moved to the left to be in sync.
The comping process goes right while record session.
(Honestly I comp vocal during session too. At least 70%.)

So, I have several passes and I comped them, but it requires more takes. Or maybe just part of phrase.
I'm recording another take, and here I need to move item or its source to the left. But there are comping areas and I can't catch the item.
So i forced to drag mouse over the screen, switch comping mode off, drag mouse again, and do this at second time after I changed the new item timing.
And also i need manually set the comp lane to solo again.
It's veeeeery very inconvenience.


Without lanes system I use recording in selected items for this, but it's inconvenience when there are splits, because some phrases and their parts can be not in screen and timing can be variative. So it's difficult to combine different parts and preserve original source untouched.

If I will use lanes with one of them set for recording, I'll get the same takes system. Or I need to copy or move items below manually each time I want to rec a take. And therefore to keep lanes open. It's ugly ProTools style I strongly dislike.



Suggestion:
- Separate zones for editing items and comping areas.

(- I hope it will possible to work mostly with collapsed lanes.)

- If there is a lane set for recording, all record passes are saved on this lane regarding record mode and options for new items, but also all recording passes are stored in lanes as whole files.
So, those items in lanes could be used for comping and they will well represent all seesion for a client.

- If there is empty space on lane in bounds of new recording, place new recording there. It just can save a lot of screen space.

That way you can work two ways:
- Record passes on their own lane and then comp them (as now we can)
- Choose lane for recording and comp right while recording with ability to look at all entire rec passes and comp using them if needed.

[benmiller]

Originally Posted by AZpercussion

Suggestion:
- Separate zones for editing items and comping areas.

(- I hope it will possible to work mostly with collapsed lanes.)

- If there is a lane set for recording, all record passes are saved on this lane regarding record mode and options for new items, but also all recording passes are stored in lanes as whole files.
So, those items in lanes could be used for comping and they will well represent all seesion for a client.

- If there is empty space on lane in bounds of new recording, place new recording there. It just can save a lot of screen space.

That way you can work two ways:
- Record passes on their own lane and then comp them (as now we can)
- Choose lane for recording and comp right while recording with ability to look at all entire rec passes and comp using them if needed.

The inconvenience i see in what you suggest is that newly recorded items would always be on 2 lanes, which can get messy.

Your situation could maybe be solved with :
- action for quick in and out of comping mode (goes back to comping in last comping lane)

- new recorded lane is at the top of the stack, just below comping lane

-when we get a way to collapse the view maybe it could be nice to have options for : show all lanes, show only one lane and show comp lane + one lane where you can cycle which lane is beeing shown in this second lane. This last option would allow to to comp while only seeing to lanes at once. In your situation, and i can imagine beeing helpfull for other situations, you would see the comp lane and the last recorded lane so you can very easlily comp from last recording right after recording

[dangguidan]

+ MIDI split: when trimming items, chase CC/pitch/etc

In the case of notes, after the item is split, additional notes will be added, and the notes are infinite in length.

[benmiller]

Originally Posted by musicbynumbers

It seems to me that you could then adjust the comp area to reincorporate this attack?

yes, but my i'm wondering what's the point in syncing the comp lane to source lane if you have to readjust the comp anyway.

Because right now when you are synced, you still loose material in the comp lane after readjusting the source lane.

My example may seem like a special case but i think it's something which will come up pretty often when using this sync feature.

[musicbynumbers]

Originally Posted by benmiller

yes, but my i'm wondering what's the point in syncing the comp lane to source lane if you have to readjust the comp anyway.

Because right now when you are synced, you still loose material in the comp lane after readjusting the source lane.

My example may seem like a special case but i think it's something which will come up pretty often when using this sync feature.

It's a good point for sure

We definitely need both of these though so would need maybe one more comp area mode?

Have the current static one but a click modifier that can also swap it into this dynamic version. Something like that?

[AZpercussion]

Originally Posted by benmiller

The inconvenience i see in what you suggest is that newly recorded items would always be on 2 lanes, which can get messy.

Why it can get messy? Newly recorded items will on two lanes at once only if there is a lane set for recording.
I'm talking that it will be more structured. Because you will have comping lane and all rec passes stored in other lanes as is. So you can easily check any take, to show and delivery takes for a client if you need.

If no lane set for recording you get just current behavior.

Originally Posted by benmiller

Your situation could maybe be solved with :
- action for quick in and out of comping mode (goes back to comping in last comping lane)

- new recorded lane is at the top of the stack, just below comping lane

-when we get a way to collapse the view maybe it could be nice to have options for : show all lanes, show only one lane and show comp lane + one lane where you can cycle which lane is beeing shown in this second lane. This last option would allow to to comp while only seeing to lanes at once. In your situation, and i can imagine beeing helpfull for other situations, you would see the comp lane and the last recorded lane so you can very easlily comp from last recording right after recording

Your suggestions is good, I talked about bottom to top direction some time ago. It's really more convenient to have more actual recored material (mostly it's last rec pass) near comp lane, at the top, near with tcp controls.
And special line to add new lanes would be better at top or bottom of comp lane.

But why we need manually comp last recordig if it's possible with different recording modes automatically?

[Vagelis]

Originally Posted by benmiller

yes, but my i'm wondering what's the point in syncing the comp lane to source lane if you have to readjust the comp anyway.

Because right now when you are synced, you still loose material in the comp lane after readjusting the source lane.

My example may seem like a special case but i think it's something which will come up pretty often when using this sync feature.

This could be a bug with an offset between source and target. I posted a gif also showing there's some delay between them so it could be the reason. If it's fixed I don't think there will be any loss.

They are synced because that way you can see only the selected part from a take in lanes and work with it straight away without messing with the original sources, which is a big thing for many users that don't want to lose or change them.

[bolgwrad]

Dock a lane. That could work.

[fricia]

Originally Posted by schwa

What is even happening there? Are you recording only into the bottom track, or also into the top track?

Now that you ask I'm not 100% sure anymore, but I think I was only recording into the bottom track. Will try to reproduce later.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by dangguidan

+ MIDI split: when trimming items, chase CC/pitch/etc

In the case of notes, after the item is split, additional notes will be added, and the notes are infinite in length.

thanks, fixing!

[Vagelis]

Originally Posted by Vagelis

Let's say i have a part that i want to move forward in the timeline to another comp area, would it be possible when i drop an item or a RE to update the comping lane with the new element without "breaking" the comp? Maybe to comp it and switch to edit mode instead of going out of sync?

Regarding this it's all good, it's possible to do it by setting the target comp to edit mode, then i can drop any item or RE

This system is really amazing, I can edit anything in lanes and my main comp stays always clean, thanks! Only wish we could group an item with a comp area and move them together

[ovnis]

Is it a bug or?


No more number for the fixed lanes buttons. Buttons are not well aligned. The fixed lanes area bas become very large, too. How to reduce the size of this area?

[schwa]

[ovnis]

Oh yes ! Thx you! It's great!

Is it possible to have number on button by default ?

I think it's easier to handle this with number already on the fixed lanes button , because not everyone will rename the fixed lanes.

[IrishRover79]

Originally Posted by ovnis

Is it a bug or?
No more number for the fixed lanes buttons. The fixed lanes area bas become very large, too. How to reduce the size of this area?

Not a bug. The number were removed. There's an action for naming your lanes, and an ongoing discussion about default naming or numbering.

Regarding the size of the fixed lane area in your GIF, I think that's connected with how many lanes you have going on. Reducing track height should shrink them up. There's been a request for us to have the ability to view only one lane at a time. If you think that would be useful for situations like the one shown, maybe consider adding your voice! :-)

[ferropop]

Either to devs or SWS :

-autocoloring the lanes based on text patterns (or some other smart mechanism) will be very useful/necessary for separating comps/alts/takes!

[ovnis]

I think it's better like on my image with number on buttons:

More consistent with TCP lane number. Regular lane have their own number. Why not for fixed lanes?!

This tells us the amount of fixed lanes and their number.

For people like me who manage fixed lanes only with actions/mouse modifiers and not with fixed lanes buttons, it would be great to be able to completely hide the fixed lane panel. That way we would gain more space for the TCP buttons and FX list.

[Paul1982]

For people like me who manage fixed lanes only with actions/mouse modifiers and not with fixed lanes buttons, it would be great to be able to completely hide the fixed lane panel. That way we would gain more space for the TCP buttons and FX list.

+ 1000

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by ferropop

Either to devs or SWS :

-autocoloring the lanes based on text patterns (or some other smart mechanism) will be very useful/necessary for separating comps/alts/takes!

Lane Folders (purely organizational) would be amazing for collapsing all the take lanes for example, just keeping the comps visible. Or whatever novel use people might have.

If this is White Tie further-along-the-line stuff maybe we can collect some of this in a separate thread?

[ovnis]

Originally Posted by IrishRover79

. Reducing track height should shrink them up. There's been a request for us to have the ability to view only one lane at a time. If you think that would be useful for situations like the one shown, maybe consider adding your voice! :-)

Very good idea.

[musicbynumbers]

I think the numbers should be optional if they come back as if you start switching lanes around it can get confusing.

I like how we can name them just a number and it does what it did before so maybe an option for what they should default to in prefs?

1 - always numbered (even if named)
2 - numbered until named
3 - no numbers

[alphoc]

Maybe there is a possibility to hide and view lanes, as in tcp and mcp. Even, lanes can move up and down would be great, just like the takes.

[ovnis]

Originally Posted by musicbynumbers

I think the numbers should be optional if they come back as if you start switching lanes around it can get confusing.

Why?




It would be great to have a button on the new comp item. If we click on it, the special comp item is replaced by a regular item wich can be moved/modified with his content.

We can do the same thing with the glue action but it's less user friendly.

[sockmonkey72]

Originally Posted by ovnis

It would be great to have a button on the new comp item. If we click on it, the special comp item is replaced by a regular item wich can be moved/modified with his content.

I think @Klangfarben suggested this, too. It's a great idea, and would permit both desired approaches to work with the same set of tools. It's such a good idea, my gut says that the devs already have it covered. :-)

I love this (bold) new direction. Kudos for pushing the envelope on this.

[ovnis]

If it's done, I think Reaper will have the best comp system of the universe!

[Vagelis]

Originally Posted by ovnis

Why?

It would be great to have a button on the new comp item. If we click on it, the special comp item is replaced by a regular item wich can be moved/modified with his content.

attachmentid=51339&stc=1&d=1673728280[/IMG]

Isn't this already possible to do by removing the area with left click- delete comp area modifier? Then can move the item as usual without gluing it.

Personally what i would love to have is the ability to group a comp area with the enclosed item in comping lane or in lanes if possible.

When they are grouped they could move together but as moving or editing a regular item, with the difference that anywhere we place or edit it, it will automatically update the main comp.

If the item in comping lane is grouped with the comp area, the good thing is that they will have the same size and they're ready to move together.

If they are grouped in lanes, it would be nice to split first the enclosed item in comp area edges and then group it with the item.

[joshxtra]

Originally Posted by ovnis

If it's done, I think Reaper will have the best comp system of the universe!

Yes, I can't agree more!
I am curious if there is some kind of roadmap for these feature additions? Or is it always developed in the moment like this?
If I may give my thoughts on the functionality, I feel there are two points to to look at:

1.
Make it possible to only view the target lane (with a committed comp. It would not be very useful to edit comp areas in the target lane without seeing the other lanes. But editing a committed comp e.g. for item volume or micro timing would be very useful with full track height. Also for waveform visibility in general.)


2.
Make a system to audition different takes in an existing comp.
Let's say I have recorded 4 Takes in lanes and my comp consists of two crossfaded items, Take 3 then take 4. Now I would like to be able to switch out the portion of take 3 with the corresponding portion of take 2, keeping the crossfade (basically like in the item-take system).

This need should arise quite often, to change an existing comp and audition additional takes. Using the comp areas I would destroy the crossfades that already exist in the comp, so that doesn't look like a good option to me.
Of course I could use the item-take system for this case, but then I wouldn't have the other abilities of the lane system.
I tried to implode the takes in the lanes into the item in the comp lane, but it seemed buggy and also destroyed the crossfade.

[benmiller]

Originally Posted by Vagelis

This could be a bug with an offset between source and target. I posted a gif also showing there's some delay between them so it could be the reason. If it's fixed I don't think there will be any loss.

I don't think it's bug, seemed more like the intended behaviour for this dev release.

Originally Posted by Vagelis

They are synced because that way you can see only the selected part from a take in lanes and work with it straight away without messing with the original sources, which is a big thing for many users that don't want to lose or change them.

I totally get the point of syncing if the comp area moves along with the item it's drawn on in the source lane. And i thought that was what a lot of peolpe were asking for and that's why i'm pointing this out. It's really jut this current behaviour, of "synced with the item content but fixed in time" which seems questionnable to me. But if other people like it that's fine, but i would be interested in hearing about in what situation this "half sync" would be more desirable than an "full sync".

[benmiller]

Originally Posted by sockmonkey72

I think @Klangfarben suggested this, too. It's a great idea, and would permit both desired approaches to work with the same set of tools. It's such a good idea, my gut says that the devs already have it covered. :-)

I love this (bold) new direction. Kudos for pushing the envelope on this.

alt+clic on the comp area in the source lane does that. so you can razor select, commit to comp lane, alt clic

i think you can already set this up as a custom action, create razoer edit then custom action "razor edit : create fixed lane comp area + fixed lane comp area: delete"