Dynamic EQ

[mschnell]

What is the difference between a Multiband compressor and a dynamic EQ ?

Is there a major advantage of any of those above ReaXComp ?

Any JSFXes or combinations of those that are recommended for such purpose.

-Michael

[Luster]

Depends on the type of EQ. TDR Nova for example is a parallel EQ which way more stealthy in the way it changes the sound. I believe there is a video about that question in one of the Dan Worrall - series...

[airon]

Dynamic EQs don't filter the sides of each band like multiband compressors do, except perhaps in parallel eqs such as Nova .

The Waves C6 multiband compressor has two bands that may be similar, but I haven't verified that.

Pro-Q3 is a little special in what shapes the parametric bands can take. 12 to 96 dB, with 12 being your normal parametric band, but the higher the value, the steeper the edges.

TDR Nova is more like a multiband compressor with each band being free to be anywhere, like the C6 bands, but since it's paralell it's different way of producing the gain or cuts, it is another way of doing things yet again.

Multiband compressors usually have attack, release, ratio and/or range as well. Dynamic EQs may not. Pro-Q3 has auto-everything or threshold+range for example, but no attack/release parameters which I'm told are automatic for Pro-Q3.

[sekim]

The nice thing about Nova is it can either be a standard parallel EQ or it can do the dynamic mode on the desired bands. Great piece of kit and the "lite" version is free. The GE version has a lot of nice extras, but TBH I rarely use them.

A lot of people don't seem to realize it, but Izotope's Neutron v3 (including the Elements version) has a dynamic EQ mode on each EQ node in the EQ module. Unfortunately nothing is accessible anymore in v4 Elements version. You get a sinking commercial to upgrade when you click on the icon to expose the settings (which works in v3)

[mschnell]

Thanks a lot for the replies, even though they seem to suggest that there is no decently clear difference.
But any answers to the second / third part of the question.
Would it make sense to dump ReaXComp and try other stuff ?

-Michael

[80icio]

Originally Posted by mschnell

What is the difference between a Multiband compressor and a dynamic EQ ?

Is there a major advantage of any of those above ReaXComp ?

Any JSFXes or combinations of those that are recommended for such purpose.

-Michael

Dynamic EQs work with frequency bells or shelf, multiband compressors work with frequency bands.

Multiband compressors have crossovers, Dynamic EQs don't.

Dynamic EQs can be useful for notching out a nasty frequency spike for example.

TDR Nova free version is a very nice dynamic EQ, you should give it a try.

ReaXcomp is a multiband, but bands can be infinite so you can work on very narrow freq content. Most of other Multibands have 4 or 5 bands top.

Waves C6 is a mix between the 2 things, with 4 bands + 2 dynamic frequency bells.

[jnorman34]

Dynamic eqs only engage when needed, such as to filter out muddy frequencies at, for example, 300hz. When there is not much going on in that area, the eq is not engaged, but when the signal starts getting hot, the eq kicks in and damps it.

[sekim]

Originally Posted by mschnell

Thanks a lot for the replies, even though they seem to suggest that there is no decently clear difference.
But any answers to the second / third part of the question.
Would it make sense to dump ReaXComp and try other stuff ?

-Michael

80icio does a good job of describing the differences. If it doesn't make that much sense, I would agree that getting the free version of Nova is a good idea so you can discover the differences. Multiband comp and dynamic EQ are two different animals, though related. LOL, kind of like a tiger and a lion are both cats, but definitely different. Plus Tokyo Dawn has some excellent videos on Nova that explain in detail how it works and what its doing, plus all kinds of ideas on situations where it excels.

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by 80icio

Dynamic EQs work with frequency bells or shelf, multiband compressors work with frequency bands.

Regarding ReaXComp I did not check by using an analyzer, but I suppose the boundaries between the bands are not sharp (which supposedly would impose nasty artifacts), but smooth and adopted to the width of a band. Hence that should be not that different to a bell.

Hence (if I am right) to me it seem the different is more regarding the GUI presenting the underlying technical parameters, than regarding the actual signal processing result.

OTOH a "Band" processing might suggest edges getting steeper with more attenuation, while "Bells" processing suggests increasing the overlapping ranges with more attenuation. Maybe that might impose some difference in the sound of the result.

-Michael

[Judders]

Originally Posted by mschnell

Regarding ReaXComp I did not check by using an analyzer, but I suppose the boundaries between the bands are not sharp (which supposedly would impose nasty artifacts), but smooth and adopted to the width of a band. Hence that should be not that different to a bell.

Hence (if I am right) to me it seem the different is more regarding the GUI presenting the underlying technical parameters, than regarding the actual signal processing result.

OTOH a "Band" processing might suggest edges getting steeper with more attenuation, while "Bells" processing suggests increasing the overlapping ranges with more attenuation. Maybe that might impose some difference in the sound of the result.

-Michael

It depends on the filter implementation. Some multiband compressors can be problematic when used in parallel. Notches are not very practical with multiband compression.

Depending on the dynamic EQ, you can also have a host of filter types, whereas multiband compression is always a pass filter.

[mschnell]

I suppose ReaXcomp is a very good clean Multiband compressor.
ReaComp is a very good clean compressor.
ReaEQ is a very good clean parametric EQ.

If ReaXcomp is not satisfactory for Dynamic EQ fans, It should not be very hard for the Cocos devs to add a ReaComp "detector" stage to each band that optionally subtracts its output value from the gain set by the user. (This of course needs a "dynamic" page for each band in the GUI.)

-Michael

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by jnorman34

Dynamic eqs only engage when needed,

Same with Multiband (or any) Compressor: it only kicks in when the appropriate signal id over the Threshold.

-Michael

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by Judders

Depending on the dynamic EQ, you can also have a host of filter types, whereas multiband compression is always a pass filter.

THAT seems to be the underlying definition.
-Michael

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by Judders

Some multiband compressors can be problematic when used in parallel.

AFAIU that means that they are not linear phase. OTOH they usually should not supposed to be linear phase, as when not necessary linear phase produces more ringing.

If per definition Dynamic EQs are supposed to offer selectable (or in some way "optimized" by the brand) filter types, they might feature both linear and not linear phase filters.

-Michael

[Judders]

Originally Posted by mschnell

THAT seems to be the underlying definition.
-Michael

Actually, I think that filter crossovers are the underlying definition.

Even with a dynamic pass band filter, there is only one filter, whereas a multiband compressor would have 2 for the same function.

Edit: the gain action is also different. Taking Brainworx DynEQ as an example, because it has many filter types and I know it well; if I use a low pass filter type it will not act like a shelf, it will change the low pass corner frequency depending on the input.

To get similar behaviour to a multiband compressor I would need to select shelving or flattened bell filters.

[serr]

I like the surgical abilities of using a 2nd instance of ReaEQ used to filter parameter modulation on a band. It would be slick to be able to have that all in one window. (The control band, the parameter mod compressor controls, and the eq band being modulated.)

Maybe there's some way to do that in Reaper already that I didn't realize?

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by Judders

it will change the low pass corner frequency depending on the input.

That indeed is a very different - maybe clever - kind of dynamic.

-Michael

[serr]

That's another thing you can do with parameter modulation. Move the frequency instead of the gain. Or both.

The UI though. It takes some mouse clicks to get that in ReaEQ. Some of these other plugins are more right out of the box.

[mschnell]

I guess that is the "business model" of those (payed for) plugins. Moving gain and/or frequency and perhaps even bandwith by an algorithm might produce a special "sound" that might be achievable by a user when he fiddles with many parameters, but it's a lot more convinced to buy a plugin that happens to force the algorithm you have in mind.
-Michael

[Judders]

Originally Posted by serr

That's another thing you can do with parameter modulation. Move the frequency instead of the gain. Or both.

The UI though. It takes some mouse clicks to get that in ReaEQ. Some of these other plugins are more right out of the box.

Yeah, it would take a bit of setting up. Being able to solo either the detection filter or gain action at the push of a button is above my pay grade for REAPER tinkering.

It's been ages since I used parameter modulation; is there attack and release?

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by serr

It takes some mouse clicks to get that in ReaEQ.

??? How to get the current compression factor out of ReaComp ?

-Michael

[airon]

Originally Posted by mschnell

??? How to get the current compression factor out of ReaComp ?

They're adding something like that in the dev versions right now.

GR metering as embedded UI for third-party VSTs


One of the more comprehensive dynamic EQs is the Kirchoff. You can have it listen to any frequency and control another part of the spectrum entirely if you want. The best sale price atm is $149 though.

ReaXComp is a little annoying to set up for me, though it's very strong as a clamp on certain areas of the spectrum. Soothe 2 is a lot better at that I find.

ReaComps sidechain and variable RMS gives you excellent full-band control though. Can sound better in deessing.

[sekim]

Originally Posted by airon

The best sale price atm is $149 though.

Just get on their mailing list and wait a few months. Should be able to get it for no more than $39 on sale. And once you start buying from them you start getting $25 vouchers to apply on top of that.

I'm a huge PA fan and spent a lot with them last year, but that said, its very tough to beat the free version of Nova as far as dynamic EQ goes. I have the paid version as well, and rarely use features not in the free version.

[mschnell]

I would happily pay 39, but their website claims 299

-Michael

[batcat]

Originally Posted by mschnell

What is the difference between a Multiband compressor and a dynamic EQ ?

Any JSFXes or combinations of those that are recommended for such purpose.

-Michael

A free mid/side & dynamic eq is the mrelwood (jsfx) EQall_BETA2_0v40
https://mrelwood5.wixsite.com/plugins/eqall
Reaper forum thread
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=210786
video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYXUTiQRfaM

[serr]

I just want ReaEQ with the audio parameter modulation (compressor) controls in the same window and another ReaEQ band that is the parameter mod filter also in the same window.

Is there a way to do this with the JS system perhaps and I just need to RTFM more?

[mschnell]

Of course you could do filters (e.g. another ReaEQ) and multiple versatile VUs done by a JSFX, outputting Midi CCs, and drive the parameters of a ReaEQ by that.
A nice object of research

-Michael

[Kicksville]

Originally Posted by mschnell

What is the difference between a Multiband compressor and a dynamic EQ ?

The best way I can describe the difference is that, in principle, a dynamic EQ is like having an assistant's hands on the gain knob for a particular frequency. When the signal crosses the threshold, your assistant turns the knob, then puts the knob back where it was when the signal goes back below (or above) the threshold.

The total dynamic range of that frequency at that exact moment isn't altered, it's just shifted one way or the other depending on whether your buddy is told to turn the knob up or down.

That's a bit oversimplified, but that's roughly what's going on with a dynamic EQ.

With a multiband compressor, your assistant has their hands on the ratio knob of a compressor that only affects a given frequency. When the signal crosses the threshold, your assistant cranks up the ratio, then puts it back.

In that context, the total dynamic range of that frequency at that moment is reduced or expanded, depending on the ratio your assistant is told to set.

Some of the other things people mention, like filter shapes and whatnot, are obvious but superficial differences. In most cases, the underlying rationale is that a dynamic EQ alters frequency gain, and multiband compression alters the dynamic range of said frequency.

I think some of the confusion between the two tools is the word dynamic. In a dynamic EQ, the word "dynamic" is intended to mean "something that moves, as opposed to static or fixed."

In the context of a multiband compressor, when you talk about "dynamics," you're talking about "the range of loud to soft."

Does that help?

[pepe44]

https://www.izotope.com/en/learn/mul...namic-eqs.html

[pepe44]

Despite they are very similiar i use the multiband compressor for dynamic control and the dynamic eq for tonal control.

[Luster]

Be aware of the crossover within a multiband compressor! It alters the phase / frequency relation of your signal and dependant of the type of signal alter the sound in an unwanted way – even with no compression applied. Linear phase solves this issue but can bring in new issues.

[Blastrio]

I guess EQs that have this kind of shape would act closer to a MB comp (screenshot):

[sekim]

PA's DSM v3 is definitely worth a look for those wanting something exotic in the way of dynamic EQ/multiband comp. Its not the easiest thing to use, but getting fantastic results out of it.

https://www.plugin-alliance.com/en/p...sp_dsm_v3.html

[sekim]

Originally Posted by mschnell

I would happily pay 39, but their website claims 299

-Michael

Just get on their mailing list and wait for the sales and then get the vouchers once you start buying. I spent about $750 with them last year and my average purchase price per plugin calculated right at $17.50 each. (LOL, yes it comes out to 42 plugins...and I cherry picked their best stuff)

[pepe44]

Originally Posted by sekim

PA's DSM v3 is definitely worth a look for those wanting something exotic in the way of dynamic EQ/multiband comp. Its not the easiest thing to use, but getting fantastic results out of it.

https://www.plugin-alliance.com/en/p...sp_dsm_v3.html

Its a fantastic processor. I use it a lot in mastering.

[mschnell]

An FFT based "infinite bands" compressor !
Technically, this would be rather doable by a JSFX
In fact the prototype of a "bleed remover" I once did works similar: removing the side chain signal by dynamically "compressing" it's current frequencies to zero.

-Michael

[bezusheist]

i don't mean to hijack the thread, but i had this idea/concept and wanted to share it.
i attached a jsfx where i implemented a simple concept for dynamic tilt.
this is using a multi-band saturator as a dynamic tilt eq.
there are 2 first order filters acting as a cross over and each band has cubic soft clipping, but one is compressing and one is expanding. (would work with sin,tanh,etc).
full effect is achieved at 0 dbFS peak input level and it gets lower with level. (only really apparent between -6 and 0 dBFS).
curious if anyone thinks this "works" or sounds good/interesting.
(check it on an analyzer with sine sweeps)
(*needs >= 2x OS for best results)

example frequency response > https://imgur.com/a/7jfuerG

[Magicbuss]

Multiband Compressors have crossovers for each band. Dynamic EQ does not.

I tend to prefer dynamic EQ for this reason.