arturia minilab problem

[stijnV]

I'm having problems with the arturia minilab in relative mode.
I think the problems have to do with this bug report http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=4576

The minilab has Three different relative modes, two of which seem compatible with reaper

Relative 1:The knob will send values 61-63 when turned in a negative direction and values 65-67 when turned in a positive direction
(this corresponds to mode 2 in reaper)

Relative 2:The knob will send values 125-127 when turned in a negative direction and values 1-3 when turned in a positive direction
(this corresponds to mode 1 in reaper)

Using either of these modes with reaper results in a knob that needs to be turned at least 3600 degrees to make a parameter go from 0 to 127.
While in ableton using the same minilab settings it takes 720 degrees, wich feels usable.

I do believe there is an underlying problem in reaper with the relative modes which can be somewhat negated with hardware that can accelerate more.
For example if the hardware sends 127 on a slow turn and 120 or 110 on a fast turn. Perhaps the problem is the way minilab implements relative modes.
However,
1. As shown by the bug report there is something going on with the relative mode implementation in reaper.
2. The same settings work fine in ableton.

[Vendetta V]

Hey have you tried this guy with the absolute mode?! I'm planning to buy this and i can't really find it in the store to testdrive it. I'd really appreciate if you put a little 'review' thingy. Just let me know how the keyboard,pads and encoders (in absolute mode I guess) feel, the quality and whether it's buggy.

i've read a few reviews (which are hard to find) but they usually talk about issues with the provided softsynth software. Which I'm not really interested in. I more like need this as a controller for other VSTis and VSTs (mainly kontakt/NI and waves)

[stijnV]

To be honest I was looking for some new sounds and didn't wanna wait for the keylab 25 to come out (which I'm still going to buy because I love my breath controller and want to retire my old grumpy cme).
I figured I could always use another 16 encoders.

On to the review.
I find the keys unplayable. They are to small for my rather big hands, but more importantly they are so light that i find it extremely difficult to control velocity, they're only useful to me to preview a patch.

The pads are of fairly typical lets bolt some pads unto this thing, because everyone seems to like those quality. To be honest I don't use them. The pads on my nanopad feel better.

The pith bend strip is a lot more twitchy than a conventional design, but nevertheless oddly usable. I can for example control pitch bend in lounge lizard quite well. It does take a little getting use to.

The encoders are ok, they feel smooth and quite sturdy. You can use them in absolute mode in reaper.

Although I find latching and absolute mode with encoders without a led feedback difficult to use. Lets say your encoder is at 120, you don't and cannot know this. The knob of the vst you're trying to control is at 110 so you think I have to rotate the encoder up to get it to latch, chances are good this is correct. You start to turn the encoder up for 720 degrees, still no latching. by the time I'm sure I had to rotate down I'm getting nervous. So I use them in absolute mode and live with the fact that the values will jump when I touch an encoder.


The overall unit is heavier than one might expect, it is really let down by the keys. I also really dislike the cable sticking out the side. Having multiple units with this design really steals a fair amount of desk space.

The software is buggy, I have loaded the software only to have patches produce no sound. The interface also shows the occasional visual artifact. The latter I find irrelevant,the former is easily fixed by reloading the program. (I have only tested it in stand alone mode, hopefully vst is more stable). As a hobbyist I have no terrible problem with the software, I do believe that for live use the no sound bug is to frequent.

I do love the software. One of my friends has a hardware modular synth and I just don't really like the thing. It takes far to long to make a musical patch and start playing. I believe you should be able to pick up an instrument and just start playing. That's what this software provides me with. Use the contextual menu to find a sound (sorted by instrument or type etc.) and play. You can't scape sounds from the ground up, but there is still plenty of scaping to be done. It is a shortcut to a lot of nice synth sounds. I also love the arturia synth sound, but that's a matter of taste.

I do believe that if you can use the encoders, and you like the arturia sound it's money well spend. Although neither hardware nor software is without flaws. If you just wanted encoders I would advice the BCR2000 at about the same price point. If you really want the software bundled with an encoder I'd wait for the keylab 25, 49, 61 and see what the reviews are like on those. I do believe they will have the same relative mode implementation as the minilab. If like me you want a relatively cheap new toy right now there are worse things you could buy.

Hope this review is of any use to you. It is the first one I have ever written, and my time with the minilab has been limited. For all I know there are still a landfill of niggles and problems to discover, so please don't take my word as gospel.

stijn

[Vendetta V]

hey that's a helluva lot of useful info! I'd suggest you to go ahead and post your review on MF or GC websites or somehting. this little bugger is lacking reviews!


What i'm actually looking for is something with minikeys (dont have much space on my desk), encoders and pads are a big plus.
I wanna use this on it's own too when im traveling but the actual catalyst idea was to get an expansion to my 3 octave synth style midi keyboard. Playing wise mine is pretty good but I need an expansion for the keyboard for keyswitching with some kontakt libraries. I really dont mind the software (and hey I actually demo'd it and it seems to be less laggy than I hear on the web).

So overall I need a midi keyboard that I can program notes with and also control params with knobs and that has pads too and is below 100$. Small enough to fit in a backpack (but still rugged, I wouldnt mind this guy's weight).

in my (desk's) case the usb from the side is actually an advantage too.

Next consideration that i have is Akai MPK which has 8 less encoders. should I get that one may be? if your answer would be yes, then could you elaborate why? cheers this is already being really helpful so if you can elaborate a bit I might as well be sure on my purchase already

EDIT: do you think they'd release an update which would make the encoders more useful on the relative mode? I've been living with my regular type midi faders which work in absolute mode for quite awhile so jumping faders is not something new to me but if it was even possible to make it work in relative mode that'd be sex haha.

also another thing, do you think you could edit how reaper reacts on relative mode and possible fix it thru reaper?

[stijnV]

I can't really comment on the Akai MPK having never handled it. It does have lower form factor knobs. Taller knobs tend to be more fragile in transportation.

I doubt arturia will change the implementation of the relative mode, they used the same implementation in the analogue factory line and seem to be going for the same method in the keylab series.

I also doubt that there will be any change soon in the way reaper handles
relative mode as the bug ticket that relates to this has a priority of 5.
I also doubt that this is something that could be fixed by the community.

I have to admit that in absolute mode I find pots easier to use than encoders. Although I find the idea of encoders well implemented superior to pots.

[Vendetta V]

hmm that doesnt help me to decide...

Should I really get this one or akai mpk?! I have a feeling this would still be better for some reason.

EDIT: againg, you believe this'd be a good controller just on it's own, not analog lab?

EDIT 2: i was checking a few threads. damn is ther really no way to get reaper to react like any of these?

Relative 1: The knob will send values 61-63 when turned in a
negative direction and values 65-67 when turned in a positive
direction. The turn speed determines the parameter response.

Relative 2: The knob will send values 125-127 when turned in a
negative direction and values 1-3 when turned in a positive
direction. The turn speed determines the parameter response.

Relative 3: The knob will send values 13-15 when turned in a
negative direction and values 17-19 when turned in a positive

[stijnV]

EDIT 2: i was checking a few threads. damn is there really no way to get reaper to react like any of these?

nope, I don't think so, I also don't think arturia will change their implementation

I would pay a bit more and get a full size 25 key board, m-audio or something similar. It would be less portable but have a lot better feel

I know there is somebody working on directlink for reaper
I believe automap has a setting for reaper, but i'm not sure if it works or not

to confuse matters even more there is also the m-audio air mini, but i have never handled that one either

again, I don't feel like you can play the keys of the minilab
I find that they are to light to have meaningful control over the velocity
But that's just me

I know this sounds corny, but try and find one you can play.
I know this is often impossible.

[Vendetta V]

thanks man it IS impossible unfortunately.

I've played a few mini controllers and they were fine by me I guess.
as I said right now I REALLY have no space so I'd barely fit in the Arturia one.

Do you think the keys on this guy are the same as on other controllers/ like korg mini or something. Cause if they are just like any other mini keyboard then they'd be fine by me.


Apparently this is as good as one can do with 100 bux. Don't you agree?

It's got 16 knobs, 8x2 pads. and keys.
Akai mpk has the same minus the pitch and mod strips, the sustain jack, and 8 knobs. Air mini has the same plus transport controls plus a lot of crashes apparently (according to the reviews). iRig has 3 octaves but no pads or knobs.

I think I'll be getting this one cause it can't get any better can it?

as for the incompatibility, do you think, if the bug report gets fixed, it'll work better? I kind of wish there was a driver/intermediary thing where we could adjust the sensitivity of the encoder.

damn that's really the only thing that's keeping me back from hitting the purchase button right now.

one more edit: first of all man thanks for helping me out again, sorry if I'm bothering you. I was thinking, could you may be shoot a video of how the VST reacts on the knobs in both relative and absolute mode? That'd may be help me decide :shrug:

[artao]

I'm looking at ordering this today. Any update on how it works in Reaper? I'm also VERY interested in the MiniLab software, so input on how that functions in Reaper would be nice as well.