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Old 12-28-2018, 04:18 PM   #1
CoffeeQuest
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Default Crash and then Reaper Can't find my audio interface

Hello there!
I've had a problem for quite a while now and I'm not sure how to figure out how to fix it.

Every once in a while Reaper will crash on me in a way where it instantly closes. No error message, no "Reaper is not responding", just instant quit the program. Usually, it's when I'm actively changing some parameter in a 3rd party plugin, last time it was the Anaglyph Spatializer.

When I then try to re-open Reaper, it can't seem to open my audio interface (Roland Quad-Capture). It will tell me that there's "an error initializing the ASIO driver"
See pic1: https://imgur.com/a/z7YYSx6

If I try to use the Quad-Capture interface in Reaper, it won't let me, as if it wasn't connected. In the device menu, it can't find any inputs or outputs. See pic2: https://imgur.com/a/fFKwMZS and pic3: https://imgur.com/jb9R7fM

The only way I can get to use the audio interface again is if I restart my computer. The audio interface works fine for use outside Reaper.

I'm believing that this is an issue with my audio interface since Reaper are displaying such errors, however, I'm not sure and I don't know how to proceed. I don't have another audio interface to test with Reaper, but I am tempted to buy a new one just out of suspicion that this might fix the problem.

Can anyone help me figure out how I can know for sure where the problem lies, and then how to proceed?

I have updated the driver for the audio interface many times and that does nothing. I'm using Windows 10.

Thanks!
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Old 12-29-2018, 05:55 AM   #2
azslow3
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First check there is no REAPER still running in the background after it crashes (using windows Process Manager).

I had the same with Roland VS-20 and I never had that with my other interfaces. Crash can be triggered by plug-in or audio driver, but when the driver is written correctly, there should be no problem to restart without rebooting.

To isolate crashing plug-in, try to run plug-ins in a separate process (one for all or one per plug-in, REAPER preferences).

You can change driver from ASIO to WDM or even safer WaveOut. You will get big latency, but that is just for testing. If you no longer can produce any crash, the reason is the driver. If you still can produce the crash but can start REAPER immediately, the crash comes from plug-in but the driver reacts badly.

You can also try to increase ASIO buffer size. Some devices do not tolerate under-runs.
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Old 12-29-2018, 01:57 PM   #3
CoffeeQuest
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Hey, thanks for replying and for your suggestions.

I tested out some scenarios with the Anaglyph plug-in as it seems to make Reaper crash pretty fast. I'm having a hard time recreating the crash in other ways since I usually work for days without it happening. So this could just be the plug-in that crashes, I don't know.

I can't figure out how to implement your suggestion:
"To isolate crashing plug-in, try to run plug-ins in a separate process (one for all or one per plug-in, REAPER preferences)."

Is that under Preferences/Audio buffering settings somewhere?


Anaglyph crashed Reaper with all kinds of drivers: WaveOut, DirectSound, and ASIO (Roland Quad-Capture).

I looked for a Reaper process still running after the crash and there was one after Reaper crashed using the ASIO driver (there was no process after crashing with WaveOut or DirectSound).

When I tried to end the process in the task manager, I couldn't end it. I tried just for funsies to right click the Reaper process and click Debug. I tried debugging it with Visual Studios (not expected to see anything I would understand) but it gave me an error message reading: "Unable to attach to the crashing process. A device attached to the system is not functioning". (https://imgur.com/a/K2N8DAr)
I don't know what this means, as I don't know what constitutes "a device", but maybe it could be the audio interface?

With the Reaper process still running, I can still immediately re-open Reaper. If it crashed using WaveOut or DirectSound drivers, there's no left-over process and I can immediately use my audio interface driver - it's when It crashed while using the ASIO drivers and there seem to be a Reaper process running after the crash, that I can't use the audio interface again without restarting.

I tried changing the buffer size (that's under Device/Request Block Size, right?) to something larger (4096) and something smaller (128) with a project of 15 tracks with 21 Rea-effects on each track. I tried this to recreate some under-runs. It used all the CPU (110 % at times) and there were lots of audio gaps, which I understand are caused by under-runs, but no crashes.

Does that mean anything to anyone? I'm totally ready to blame my audio interface for everything and go buy a new one, but this is mostly because I need a scapegoat. Not sure how to proceed otherwise.
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Old 12-29-2018, 03:32 PM   #4
azslow3
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So it seems like plug-ins are crushing REAPER. And when that happens ASIO driver is hard locked.

Will some other interface/driver exit immediately or not is a good question. I think it is better try to isolate problematic plug-in(s).

General settings is in preferences Plug-ins/compatibility VST bridging/firewalling.

In the "Add FX" dialog you can right click on specific plug-in and select "Run as"/"Separate process". In this case when such plug-in crash, it will not take REAPER into hell and hopefully will not lock Roland.

PS. for a technical reason many blind REAPER users run plug-ins in a separate process by default and have no problems. I mean that functionality is well tested and is not just debugging approach.
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Old 12-30-2018, 07:51 AM   #5
slooky
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I have had the same problem whenever I open Steinberg's Halion Symphonic Orchestra. I have the Roland Duo Capture.
At first I can run it for a little while then it shuts down Reaper then I get the same as your pics.
I really don't think it has to do with the interface
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Old 12-30-2018, 08:23 AM   #6
CoffeeQuest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azslow3 View Post
So it seems like plug-ins are crushing REAPER. And when that happens ASIO driver is hard locked.

Will some other interface/driver exit immediately or not is a good question. I think it is better try to isolate problematic plug-in(s).

General settings is in preferences Plug-ins/compatibility VST bridging/firewalling.

In the "Add FX" dialog you can right click on specific plug-in and select "Run as"/"Separate process". In this case when such plug-in crash, it will not take REAPER into hell and hopefully will not lock Roland.

PS. for a technical reason many blind REAPER users run plug-ins in a separate process by default and have no problems. I mean that functionality is well tested and is not just debugging approach.
Isolating the plug-in as a separate process was a good tip! The plug-in crashed but Reaper kept on, even on the ASIO driver, so that worked fine.

I think the answer is to find the problematic plug-ins and then just run those in separate processes (are there any downside to that?)

How do we avoid crashing plug-ins then? Maybe try an earlier version of the plug-in or something?

Does Reaper have any blind users? Interesting. Curious to why running in a separate process will help!
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Old 12-30-2018, 08:24 AM   #7
CoffeeQuest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slooky View Post
I have had the same problem whenever I open Steinberg's Halion Symphonic Orchestra. I have the Roland Duo Capture.
At first I can run it for a little while then it shuts down Reaper then I get the same as your pics.
I really don't think it has to do with the interface
So how do you handle that? Just don't use the plug-in? It's a shame if good money is spent on it!
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Old 12-30-2018, 10:32 AM   #8
slooky
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Yes I don't use it anymore and yes a waste of money. It did sound good though.
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Old 12-30-2018, 12:35 PM   #9
azslow3
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After bad plug-in is isolated, try different compatibility options. Also in case VST3 is crashing, try to use VST2 instead (or reversed). Finally it is a good idea to inform the plug-in developer and open a separate thread for this specific plug-in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoffeeQuest View Post
Does Reaper have any blind users? Interesting. Curious to why running in a separate process will help!
REAPER is one from 2 still developed DAWs with high accessibility level (the other one is Samplidute).

Some scripts for not accessible plug-ins had that recommendation, at least before. REAPER has no easy way to fine which plug-in is currently opened in the FX chain. Also REAPER has no shortcuts to switch between FX windows and REAPER itself. When running in a separate process, plug-in window is a separate application and so Alt+Tab is working.
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Old 12-30-2018, 02:01 PM   #10
slooky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azslow3 View Post
After bad plug-in is isolated, try different compatibility options. Also in case VST3 is crashing, try to use VST2 instead (or reversed). Finally it is a good idea to inform the plug-in developer and open a separate thread for this specific plug-in
I tried looking for the VST2, no can find
and yes I informed the plug in developer and they said to look at these very forums.
So, Steinberg is not helpful at all
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Old 12-30-2018, 02:15 PM   #11
slooky
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I just looked at the manual and their is a maybe work-around
Load plugin, hit the plus on the plugin which brings up a window with this


For example, you can Save minimal undo states if you wish, and/or Avoid loading undo states where
possible. Other options include Inform plug-in when track channel count changes, Hard reset on
playback, Save state as VST bank and Buggy plug-in compatibility mode.

So click Buggy plug-in compatibility mode

I am going to try that and will see how it goes

Last edited by slooky; 12-30-2018 at 04:58 PM.
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Old 12-31-2018, 11:44 AM   #12
slooky
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It worked for about a day then shut down Reaper. So much for that.
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Old 01-02-2019, 09:02 AM   #13
CoffeeQuest
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Thanks for your suggestions, Slooky and Azslow3. I'll try these and see how it goes.
[edit]: And happy new year!
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:21 PM   #14
slooky
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I asked for support from Yamaha/ Steinberg and someone from there got my software working with Reaper. Its all good and no more freezing Reaper.
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