Reaper vs Pro-Tools editing - Page 5

rhythmtech · 03-07-2010, 06:57 AM

any update on a release for all your mods shan?

Shan · 03-07-2010, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhythmtech

any update on a release for all your mods shan?

I cant even get back to this for a few weeks. We just had Olympic hell up here.

Shane

Shan · 03-07-2010, 04:16 PM

A few users here have mentioned that the DigiASIO driver doesn't report it's latency correctly. I have yet to test and benchmark this. We could easily run a few benchmarks to get the accurate latency values of the DigiASIO driver. Since REAPER gives us total control and more in this area, unlike Digidesign, we can make any necessary adjustments in properties and have accurate time stamping for the recorded audio:

Shane

AdamWathan · 03-07-2010, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shan

I cant even get back to this for a few weeks. We just had Olympic hell up here.

Shane

I was up there from Feb 15-19 and went to a couple of the hockey games, had an awesome time and the Vancouver weather was amazing compared to southern Ontario! Could definitely see how it wasn't so much fun for the locals though, haha...

Shan · 03-07-2010, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamWathan

I was up there from Feb 15-19 and went to a couple of the hockey games, had an awesome time and the Vancouver weather was amazing compared to southern Ontario! Could definitely see how it wasn't so much fun for the locals though, haha...

Let's just say I got squished in the middle of this insanity. But it was pretty fun.

Shane
__________________
aka: evil hobo

semiquaver · 03-07-2010, 09:07 PM

and just fyi two-finger scrolling is now available in 3.36pre1

Shan · 03-15-2010, 10:26 PM

I'm putting this here so I wont forget, and also so some of you guys can try it with Digi USB based hardware I/O and REAPER.

Using this USB audio driver:

http://www.usb-audio.com/

...this user here claims to get 2ms(even down to 32 samples) on his Mbox with REAPER:

http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...2&postcount=12

If that's the case, this is HUGE news for users of Digi USB hardware as it's better than the Digidesign ASIO driver itself.

Shane

JonnyGinese · 03-16-2010, 06:24 AM

I want Rea Tools!!!...

I'm going to install the cursors tonight... is it possible for you to post up the track templates?

I know the menu stuff will still take awhile but it looks like i could at least start with the color coded stuff :-)

Shan · 03-18-2010, 01:18 PM

This Pro Tools keyboard shortcuts port to REAPER seems to be never ending. [img]http://*************.net/shocked-smiley-9445.gif[/img] What a job, and not even close to finished:

[img]http://img339.**************/img339/8849/ptshortcuts.png[/img]

Shane

buckman · 03-18-2010, 01:32 PM

WOW...

With this, combined with that sexy PT skin (that I think you showed a video of a while back doing the cursors and editing) plus the menus, cursors etc...This will be amazing!

To get you going, I know most users wouldn't mind donating/paying to get this as a single file that loads everything into Reaper to become "Rea-tools" - say £5-£10 ?

Then us PT guys can get it quicker - thats if it would help speed up the workflow...??

Your doing a great job Shane... ;o)

Digi's day's are numbered?? (maybe not but i've noticed a huge shift of DUCers lately over here) - surely these would be willing customers ;o)

Mikelib1981 · 03-18-2010, 02:19 PM

I'm very excited about this. I would be happy to donate. Seems a lot of hard work has gone into it.

Mike.

11miles · 03-18-2010, 04:10 PM

i wouldn't mind contributing financially, for a PT lookalike....
here here

Shan · 03-18-2010, 09:36 PM

Finally, themable horizontal lines in the Edit/Arrange window. Such a simple thing that really makes all the difference in the DAWorld(Clickable thumbnail image):

[img]http://img510.**************/img510/3180/reatoolsthumb.png[/img]

Alright gents, if any of you are diehard graphic design pros, give me a shout. I have a very small, but challenging job for you to do on this theme.

Shane

EricM · 03-18-2010, 10:54 PM

Shoot, I might have time later today

Also why don't you release your current key mapping and let users
do different sections. than merge them together?

lawrs · 03-19-2010, 12:27 AM

I would donate a healthy amount for this. Shane you're my hero.

Dirk · 03-19-2010, 02:35 AM

me too !! wow !!

pdc · 03-20-2010, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evillain

manning1.....thank you so much.

I will definietly spend time going over the entire manual, which i feel was written really well, except that it is geared towards PC users.

Grid mode is when wherever you select it forms to the grid that you specify....examples...1/4 note grid, to 32nd note grid....sample grid....millesecond grid.....etc. Any edit I make will be to the grid.

Slip mode is when it is free and you can slide anything anywhere.

For instance....if I want to edit up to the first hit of the drums, and move them to a locked grid. I would edit up to the first hit in Slip mode, then go to grid mode to lock it to the grid on 1.

A "region" is the audio track itself. If it is cut into 3 parts, then it is 3 regions. At least that is how PT names it.

I have a lot to learn, and I think what keeps most interested in this program is that I know it is just gonna get better and better all the time. Or at least that is the perception I am getting.

Thank you again!!

With ProTools, you don't NEED a manual. It is easy to sit down and work. THAT is a HUGE difference. There is no other DAW that is as fast as PT. There is just no ifs ands or buts about it. By the time Reaper has everything that we want, it will be ProTools, so why not buy a system that works?

Shan · 03-20-2010, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdc

With ProTools, you don't NEED a manual. It is easy to sit down and work. THAT is a HUGE difference. There is no other DAW that is as fast as PT. There is just no ifs ands or buts about it.

That's just not the case anymore these days. Pro Tools gets more bloated with every new release unfortunately. Even the editing in PT, which use to be king of the hill, is starting to get way behind in many areas and really showing it's age. With PT 5.0, you could do alot without any manual. With PT 8.0.3cs1, a new user will 100% need to jump in the manual pretty fast. They lost the elegant simplicity that they once had. It's not the same DAW anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdc

By the time Reaper has everything that we want, it will be ProTools, so

Nah, it wont, it will be well beyond Pro Tools as everything gets added to REAPER's current feature set. In many areas it already achieved this status. The next REAPER release after this current one will level, and even one up, a very important area.

Those who know both these DAWs very well, definitely know the pros and cons of both. Putting my fanboy hat aside for both, I can attest that REAPER is right on their ass.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdc

why not buy a system that works?

Which would be what? Are you talking about this system:

http://duc.digidesign.com/showthread.php?t=269242

I'm still a PT fanboy and use it every day, but let's get real here, stuff like the above is putting everyone at great risk. Even the Digidesign Venue has that very dangerous bug. Cockos would never let such a harmful bug out the door. Avid Audio clearly is not doing very well these days and we the user base who still support them are quite concerned.

Shane

mrelwood · 03-20-2010, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdc

With ProTools, you don't NEED a manual.

You don't seem to realize that your view is completely shadowed by the fact that PT is what you are accustomed to. For me PT is a pain in the back even after doing a few band recordings, a few big bands, few classical pieces, etc. I still have to ask my collegues how to do this and that.

For me, Reaper is the one that doesn't need a manual. I can do whatever I wan't without the software blocking my purposes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shan

Avid Audio clearly is not doing very well these days and we the user base who still support them are quite concerned.

My view of PT should be clear by now, but I'm very interested to see how in the earth is Avid going to try to pull PT out of this swamp. I know they won't succeed, but I want to see them try! Sadistic? Maybe...

Edit: By PT's swamp I mean HD's becoming obsolete and LE's stupid limitations for a serious user. And the horrific real time bounce only.
"Can we get a quick mp3 of the 2 hour concert you just recorded?"
What year is this, 1994?

airon · 03-20-2010, 08:02 PM

There are some small details that are more streamlined in Protools, and I'm talking dialogue editing, which is what I do. Some things I can do in Protools just with the keyboard, for which I might require the mouse in addition to actions/key-commands. The difference is slight.

But oh boy, is that balance shifting fast. Knowing Reaper well enough by now, after having tested and used it for almost four years, I can say that the advantages are now trumping the drawbacks of Reaper, because Cockos, very much unlike Avid these days, are actually keeping their ass moving, taking a very hard stance on stability and well designed feature implementation. Everything is made to make sense as much as possible, and judging by the folks who just walk in and use it as if some professional folks had tought them to, it is working.

By no means do I wish to suggest Reaper is perfect, but in every possible way, the developers and the users are trying, and so very much contrary to Avid and it's mangled userbase, are succeeding.

The application is exceptionally usable for most tasks. Users and developers provide support in what can be said to be the best DAW forums out there. Users extend the functionality of the application in ways nobody else has ever achieved in any other DAW. Users have written the documentation. Goeffrey Francis has written several excellent books inspired by his work on the manual.

Nobody is looking down at Protools. They're looking away.

lxm · 03-21-2010, 02:56 PM

cant wait..... i would chip in some $ to help too. dosent seem what shane is after tho. good on you!

cheers.

Shan · 03-21-2010, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyGinese

I want Rea Tools!!!...

I'm going to install the cursors tonight... is it possible for you to post up the track templates?

Oh ya, I forgot about the cursors. I posted the complete set in the REAPER stash:

https://stash.reaper.fm/v/4400/PT%20Cursors%203.0.zip

More info here:

http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...34&postcount=2

...and here:

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...hlight=Cursors

You'll have a bit of work to do renaming them. I didn't get that far.

Shane

Shan · 03-21-2010, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricM

Shoot, I might have time later today

Also why don't you release your current key mapping and let users
do different sections. than merge them together?

Some of the shortcut key commands are complex and consist of many actions. Many are also linked to the menus with multiple destinations etc. Looking at it from the outside, it can actually look like quite a maze of spaghetti but somehow it all makes sense to me. Maybe because I created the spaghetti.

Shane

EricM · 03-21-2010, 06:33 PM

Is it gonna be flying spaghetti? I have no doubt it's a monster already

Hr.Austmann · 03-27-2010, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shan

Finally, themable horizontal lines in the Edit/Arrange window. Such a simple thing that really makes all the difference in the DAWorld(Clickable thumbnail image):

[img]http://img510.**************/img510/3180/reatoolsthumb.png[/img]

Alright gents, if any of you are diehard graphic design pros, give me a shout. I have a very small, but challenging job for you to do on this theme.

Shane

I have very limited knowledge for software coding and graphic design and all that stuff
but on the other hand i do have tons of good friends who are professional's in the graphic design business.
and before i ask them id like to know if reaper in today's state is able to have 100% full fledged PT8 theme done??????

Shan · 03-28-2010, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hr.Austmann

and before i ask them id like to know if reaper in today's state is able to have 100% full fledged PT8 theme done??????

No. We can get it close in areas, but not 100%. The visual aspect is only part of it. There is also key commands, menus, cursors and work flow etc. It can be customized enough that most long time PT users will be able to open it up and work the way they normally would in many areas without a big learning curve. A graphic artist with little to no knowledge of the inner workings of PT and REAPER would not be able to pull this off in my opinion. There is too much stuff under the hood that is all part of it.

Shane

buckman · 03-28-2010, 05:13 AM

Shane

Is it possible to just get the theme of above for ReaTools...

I think what youve done is great, but instead of wait for the full menus and cursors etc, i realise that i now use my own actions etc so its only 50% PT so maybe waiting for the ful ReaTools wont suit me anyway as ive got stuck into my ways with my own key commands..

BUT if i could get the theme that really is beautiful! Coming from occasional PT8 use, i think Reaper lets you experiment and go off track with better 1 key actions for rendering etc so my Reaper is quite personal to me..

So i could install your theme as above with the colours etc but keep my actions in place? - would that work and is it easy enough to install without changing my key actions?

airon · 03-28-2010, 10:44 AM

You don't have to import anything you don't need.

All the actions stuff is a text file. You can also just export your own keymap first, then import Shanes stuff, pick the stuff you want to keep, select it, and export just that. Then reset the keymap to default, load your own and the stuff you saved out

.

Same for menus really. You can save each menu section to its own file as well, or all in one big file.

The visual theme doesn't matter to the functionality of Reaper btw. That's just a skin more or less.

buckman · 03-28-2010, 01:10 PM

Thanks Airon

So that sounds easy as..

So (excuse my ignorance in searching and reading all these PT posts) where is this particular Reatools skin? has shane released it yet?

AdamWathan · 03-28-2010, 01:23 PM

Getting the "Pro Tools look" in the arrange window has more to do with how you have your media item appearance preferences setup and choosing the right track/item colors than it does the theme really. There's some tips in this thread...

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=54716&page=2

Scroll down to like post #57.

Here's my arrange window after just a couple tweaks and using EvilDragon's SWS color set:

Shan · 03-28-2010, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamWathan

Getting the "Pro Tools look" in the arrange window has more to do with how you have your media item appearance preferences setup and choosing the right track/item colors than it does the theme really.

Here is the main PT Color Palette:

[img]http://img28.**************/img28/659/protoolscolorpalette.png[/img]

You can use an Eye Dropper tool in an Image program to get all 69 color values.

The Media Item's(Regions) Waveform/Peaks in the Edit/Arrange Window in PT cycle through the same 16 colors in the following order:

[img]http://img690.**************/img690/7923/color1.png[/img]

[img]http://img94.**************/img94/3861/color2.png[/img]

[img]http://img94.**************/img94/8250/color3.png[/img]

[img]http://img94.**************/img94/4085/color4.png[/img]

[img]http://img94.**************/img94/2346/color5.png[/img]

[img]http://img94.**************/img94/5402/color6.png[/img]

[img]http://img265.**************/img265/7455/color7.png[/img]

[img]http://img265.**************/img265/4804/color8.png[/img]

[img]http://img265.**************/img265/6900/color9.png[/img]

[img]http://img265.**************/img265/3006/color10.png[/img]

[img]http://img265.**************/img265/2568/color11.png[/img]

[img]http://img265.**************/img265/515/color12.png[/img]

[img]http://img265.**************/img265/2485/color13.png[/img]

[img]http://img163.**************/img163/8354/color14.png[/img]

[img]http://img163.**************/img163/5483/color15.png[/img]

[img]http://img163.**************/img163/1275/color16.png[/img]

Shane

Shan · 03-28-2010, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckman

Thanks Airon

So that sounds easy as..

So (excuse my ignorance in searching and reading all these PT posts) where is this particular Reatools skin? has shane released it yet?

I havent finished the skin yet. Quite a ways to go. I've been tackling the menus, key commands and cursors first. Hopefully I'll have the cursors finished today and post them for everyone to use.

Speaking of cursors. Someone post me a .png pic of the Arrow cursor in Pro Tools on Mac. I believe it is different than the PC Arrow. Thanks.

Shane

AdamWathan · 03-28-2010, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shan

I havent finished the skin yet. Quite a ways to go. I've been tackling the menus, key commands and cursors first. Hopefully I'll have the cursors finished today and post them for everyone to use.

Speaking of cursors. Someone post me a .png pic of the Arrow cursor in Pro Tools on Mac. I believe it is different than the PC Arrow. Thanks.

Shane

Thanks a ton for those PT track colors. For some reason whenever I use an eye dropper tool in Seashore on OS X to get colors it always grabs them slightly darker than they would be in the actual program, maybe just a matter of changes in the screenshot when it's taken, but either way I brightened them all up a bit and made an SWS color set...

http://www.adamwathan.com/reaper/PTr...olors.SWSColor

So anyone can load that up if they like, then just use the "Set track colors to ordered custom colors" command to get all your track colors matching PT 8.

Shan, the pointer cursor in PT 8 on OS X is just the standard OS X cursor, no different than what is shown here...

Shan · 03-28-2010, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamWathan

.

Shan, the pointer cursor in PT 8 on OS X is just the standard OS X cursor, no different than what is shown here...

Can you post me a screen shot of the pointer in PT in the same area as demonstrated in my example?

The one you posted appears to have a drop shadow which I don't think exists in PT. Thanks.

Shane

Shan · 03-28-2010, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamWathan

Thanks a ton for those PT track colors. For some reason whenever I use an eye dropper tool in Seashore on OS X to get colors it always grabs them slightly darker than they would be in the actual program

That's because there is a blend mode being used in PT on the waveform colors. We should be able to match the blend mode in REAPER. This setting is found here:

[img]http://img140.**************/img140/8843/fillmode.png[/img]

I don't know what the actual blend mode parameters would be at this point in time to match the blend mode of PT. PT also has a default gray, which is not in it's color palette:

[img]http://img188.**************/img188/424/defaultgrey.png[/img]

I don't know if PT's colors get drawn over and blended with this default gray or not. That would be the source of your colors not matching and being slightly darker.

Shane

AdamWathan · 03-28-2010, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shan

Can you post me a screen shot of the pointer in PT in the same area as demonstrated in my example?

The one you posted appears to have a drop shadow which I don't think exists in PT. Thanks.

Shane

Yeah the drop shadow exists in PT. The cursor does not change AT ALL in that area, it is the exact same as it is in the Finder, or in Safari, or iTunes, etc. I cannot for the life of me figure out how to take a screenshot in OS X that actually includes the cursor in the screen capture sorry. But I guarantee it is the exact cursor shown in that image, including the drop shadow.

Best I can do is a video just to convince you that the drop shadow really is there

http://www.adamwathan.com/reaper/osxptcursor.mov

Shan · 03-28-2010, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamWathan

Yeah the drop shadow exists in PT. The cursor does not change AT ALL in that area, it is the exact same as it is in the Finder, or in Safari, or iTunes, etc. I cannot for the life of me figure out how to take a screenshot in OS X that actually includes the cursor in the screen capture sorry. But I guarantee it is the exact cursor shown in that image, including the drop shadow.

Best I can do is a video just to convince you that the drop shadow really is there

http://www.adamwathan.com/reaper/osxptcursor.mov

Got it. Thanks! Looks like the PT cursor set is identical on both platforms except the arrow which seems to use the default OS arrow cursor. Looks like someone did my work for me already:

http://www.winmatrix.com/forums/inde...or-windows-xp/

I'll grab the OSX arrow from that cursor package.

I'll have two separate cursor folders then. Once for Windows and one for OSX. The only difference will be the arrow cursor. Easy enough to do.

Shane

Shan · 03-28-2010, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamWathan

I cannot for the life of me figure out how to take a screenshot in OS X that actually includes the cursor in the screen capture sorry.

Try this for any future screen grabs:

Quote:

Another method for capturing screen shots in Mac OS X is by using the bundled Apple utility, Grab, located in the Applications > Utilities folder. Grab is useful if you need to include a cursor or a menu in your screen shot, or if you want to save your screen shot to TIFF format. To include a cursor, first go to Grab Preferences and select the cursor icon you wish to have in your screen shot. To capture the screen with Grab, run Grab, then choose of the capture modes from the "Capture" menu: Selection, Window, Screen, Timed Screen.

Hope that helps.

Shane

AdamWathan · 03-28-2010, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shan

Try this for any future screen grabs:

Hope that helps.

Shane

Yeah the problem with that is it basically inserts a "dummy" cursor where your cursor is and adds it to the screenshot, you have to specify which cursor for it to include from that window I initially cap'd for you

So me telling it to display the OS X pointer for my PT screenshot would've been cheating just a little bit, haha...

Shan · 03-28-2010, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamWathan

Yeah the problem with that is it basically inserts a "dummy" cursor where your cursor is and adds it to the screenshot, you have to specify which cursor for it to include from that window I initially cap'd for you

So me telling it to display the OS X pointer for my PT screenshot would've been cheating just a little bit, haha...

Ya, I just read the "fine print". Oh well.

Shane