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01-09-2018, 03:08 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 45
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Fletcher Munson compensation
Is there a dedicated plugin or a dynamic EQ that can do a Fletcher Munson compensation?
Thanks in advance
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01-09-2018, 03:23 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,559
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As in simulating your ears being pummeled at high volume for a mix element? ie. Make a mix element 'bangin' loud?
Roll back the high end with eq and distort/saturate. Roll back the lows as needed too.
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01-09-2018, 05:44 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serr
As in simulating your ears being pummeled at high volume for a mix element? ie. Make a mix element 'bangin' loud?
Roll back the high end with eq and distort/saturate. Roll back the lows as needed too.
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If he wants to simulate F-M @ higher volumes, he wants the opposite of that (sounds brighter and bassier to our ears @ higher volumes) but the better method is to just turn it up every so often and check.
The usual advice is to mix at pretty low volumes and if one can make it sound great at the lower volume, it'll sound great louder which is good advice. However, most pro mixers don't advise that you never actually listen and check at higher levels.
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Music is what feelings sound like.
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01-09-2018, 06:03 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,738
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Many hi-fi systems have a loudness button suppose to do roughly that, and Yamaha had a variable "loudness" system on some of their hi-fi amps that was variable with the volume setting. Certainly an interesting idea for a plugin.
It could get complicated if you want to do more than a rough adjustment based on how loud your amp is turned up, because of varying levels of different frequencies in the source material that are constantly changing.
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01-09-2018, 06:06 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drumphil
Many hi-fi systems have a loudness button suppose to do roughly that, and Yamaha had a variable "loudness" system on some of their hi-fi amps that was variable with the volume setting. Certainly an interesting idea for a plugin.
It could get complicated if you want to do more than a rough adjustment based on how loud your amp is turned up, because of varying levels of different frequencies in the source material that are constantly changing.
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I haven't seen a loudness button in like "foreva" but that is correct.
Quote:
because of varying levels of different frequencies in the source material that are constantly changing.
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I'm not sure that matters since they are always changing in every scenario.
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Music is what feelings sound like.
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01-09-2018, 06:10 PM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
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Location: Australia
Posts: 3,738
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Lol, the amp running the KEF speakers in my lounge room has it...
But it's a Technics amp from 1984
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01-09-2018, 06:12 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drumphil
Lol, the amp running the KEF speakers in my lounge room has it...
But it's a Technics amp from 1984
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No doubt, I think I have a nice 1980s receiver in the attic that may have it. It just really took me back when I saw you use the term. My Crown PS-200 that I use with my old Dynaco A10s is the only older gear like that that I have in normal use - they are my "Old Timey Stereo System Mix Checkers" when I sort of want to jam out on a mix instead of mix a mix.
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Music is what feelings sound like.
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01-09-2018, 06:13 PM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic
I'm not sure that matters since they are always changing in every scenario.
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What I'm saying is you would need to use FFT to break the signal down into frequency bands, and then adjust them using the FM curve based on their loudness. The plugin would also need knowledge of the volume the speakers were putting into the room as a starting point to determine how far up and down the scale a certain level at a certain frequency was.
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01-09-2018, 06:19 PM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drumphil
What I'm saying is you would need to use FFT to break the signal down into frequency bands, and then adjust them using the FM curve based on their loudness. The plugin would also need knowledge of the volume the speakers were putting into the room as a starting point to determine how far up and down the scale a certain level at a certain frequency was.
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Oh yea, the original quesiton, I was already going on about measuring the effect or rather the effect of turning the volume knob, not generating it. I'm curious as to why they want this, since I'd advise turning it up from time to time and just listening. Maybe they have strict requirements where they are as far as noise, roommates, neighbors et al.
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Music is what feelings sound like.
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01-09-2018, 06:25 PM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Australia
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Assuming there aren't any drawbacks or gotchas that I haven't thought of, I can't see why it wouldn't be a good thing to have in general. It's just a frequency response compensation, like we might do for a room, but variable due to the variable frequency response of humans at different volume levels.
Even if you turn the mix up, there might still be quiet sections, and your perception of the relative levels of different frequencies is going to be different for those bits.
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01-09-2018, 06:30 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drumphil
Assuming there aren't any drawbacks or gotchas that I haven't thought of, I can't see why it wouldn't be a good thing to have in general. It's just a frequency response compensation, like we might do for a room, but variable due to the variable frequency response of humans at different volume levels.
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I suppose but if I can just turn the same knob I always do already, I can't find much reason not to as just turning it up leaves zero room for error. I also think there is some value to hearing it like it really is at whatever level it is aka work with FM instead of against it so to speak but I'm sure we are straying off topic.
This is from a mixing perspective, not a listening or enjoyment perspective FYI.
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Music is what feelings sound like.
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01-09-2018, 06:34 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,738
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Quote:
I can't find much reason not to as just turning it up leaves zero room for error.
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Well, there is no volume you can turn it up to where the response is flat.
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01-09-2018, 06:35 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drumphil
Well, there is no volume you can turn it up to where the response is flat.
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Mr. Pedantic. I know, I mean error between the actual thing and the simulated thing. I'd rather what I monitor when I make mixing decisions be what it is at that level because I'm aware of those levels and those differences after decades of mixing, that consistency and awareness has value when making mixing decisions.
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Music is what feelings sound like.
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01-09-2018, 06:37 PM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Australia
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Certainly interesting to think about anyway. I wonder how hard it would be to code a prototype in JS? I might have to have a muck around with it.
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01-09-2018, 06:40 PM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drumphil
Certainly interesting to think about anyway. I wonder how hard it would be to code a prototype in JS? I might have to have a muck around with it.
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I don't know but since I have a hard line drawn between my coding and my music making (I must not cross the streams LOL) I certainly help you beta test it. It is academically interesting for sure.
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Music is what feelings sound like.
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01-09-2018, 06:42 PM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Australia
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If I actually manage to come up with something I'll let you know.
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01-09-2018, 06:44 PM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 507
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Feltcher Munchin
I avoid the Feltcher Munchin effect by taking a roofie so I can forget the night.
Sorry...... couldn't resist......
mod....feel free to delete if I've crossed a line.
Last edited by blumpy; 01-09-2018 at 07:03 PM.
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01-09-2018, 07:15 PM
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#18
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Banned
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: England
Posts: 2,432
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lolz-such waffle is tasty--- forget it--that set of curves was just a guesstimation dating back 1933..been reavised since perhaps...people are not the same now or never were and equiptments changed quite drastically.
People do not have to stick to any pre-definitions--people can define their own if they think more FOR themselves= amen.
Many new theories are actually comming from happy mistakes--it's fine to try _newer_ ideas. =)
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01-09-2018, 07:18 PM
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#19
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Banned
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: England
Posts: 2,432
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Quote:
Sorry...... couldn't resist......
mod....feel free to delete if I've crossed a line.
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Fear not-let your ideas and input flow eh''
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01-09-2018, 09:24 PM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic
If he wants to simulate F-M @ higher volumes, he wants the opposite of that (sounds brighter and bassier to our ears @ higher volumes) but the better method is to just turn it up every so often and check.
The usual advice is to mix at pretty low volumes and if one can make it sound great at the lower volume, it'll sound great louder which is good advice. However, most pro mixers don't advise that you never actually listen and check at higher levels.
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I'm sorry, I wrote that completely backwards!
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01-10-2018, 02:06 AM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Mullet
Posts: 829
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Iirc toneboosters morphit has the fletcher Munson curve (or its inverse? Don’t remember exactly, been a while since I demo’d it)
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01-10-2018, 02:25 AM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 3,116
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This lil pup in "loud" mode
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