Old 09-03-2019, 05:12 PM   #4481
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
This is a great way to test away from the surface.

When you are happy with your C4emu.touchosc, can you send it, I'll include it
No worries, happy to do my (samll) part.
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Old 09-03-2019, 05:41 PM   #4482
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Rats, so it's not modal on OS X but is on Win, grrr....
I can confirm it's modal here too on Win 8.1
Thanks for this btw., excited to see CSI gets a learn window.
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Old 09-03-2019, 06:35 PM   #4483
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Doesn't seem like any difference in the new build for the fx window. None of the buttons work, but it still tracks each surface movement well. Also still locked out of Windows when the fx window is active.

Also, I don't know if this matters, but I just discovered that the JS Channel Router plugin will render Modifiers useless. That's why I couldn't get them to work, but after removing that plugin it works. Any ideas why, can that be fixed?
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Old 09-03-2019, 10:52 PM   #4484
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I know NOTHING about CSI....

Can someone point me in the right BEGINNER's direction...? I checked the github wiki and I can't seem make sense of anything in it... haha. I'm kind of new to the CSI/custom MIDI/MCU protocol.... anything BEGINNER helps.

Controllers I have: Maschine Studio, Maschine MK2, Maschine MK3, Novation SL MKIII... those are best ones I have..

THANKS!
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Old 09-04-2019, 02:22 AM   #4485
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Originally Posted by nofish View Post
I can confirm it's modal here too on Win 8.1
Damn, thanks for testing !

Quote:
Thanks for this btw., excited to see CSI gets a learn window.
Well, 1/2 learn mode on Win
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Old 09-04-2019, 02:26 AM   #4486
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Originally Posted by poetnprophet View Post
Doesn't seem like any difference in the new build for the fx window. None of the buttons work, but it still tracks each surface movement well. Also still locked out of Windows when the fx window is active.
Yup, that is modal.

Well, It will still be usable until we can fix it properly -- the workaround for now is -- select/focus/whatever before you ToggleLearnMode, not pretty but it will still work.

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Also, I don't know if this matters, but I just discovered that the JS Channel Router plugin will render Modifiers useless. That's why I couldn't get them to work, but after removing that plugin it works. Any ideas why, can that be fixed?
No idea, sorry.
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Old 09-04-2019, 02:32 AM   #4487
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Originally Posted by themixtape View Post
I know NOTHING about CSI....

Can someone point me in the right BEGINNER's direction...? I checked the github wiki and I can't seem make sense of anything in it... haha. I'm kind of new to the CSI/custom MIDI/MCU protocol.... anything BEGINNER helps.

Controllers I have: Maschine Studio, Maschine MK2, Maschine MK3, Novation SL MKIII... those are best ones I have..

THANKS!
Just download the software.

See Readme for installation instructions and Control Surface Integrator for overview of concepts.

Take a look at the files in the CSI folder AFTER reading the docs

It really is just a simple matter of matching up names

We're just now building a Learn Mode, this will ease the chore of generating the files
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Old 09-04-2019, 10:29 AM   #4488
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Nitpick, but it threw me off at first yesterday when going back to testing CSI after quite some time so I wanted to mention it...
When opening the 'Control Surface Settings' dialog, the 'Surfaces' entry doesn't appear immediately although the corresponding 'Pages' entry is selected. At first I thought the 'Surfaces' entry I made previously disappeared so I made a new one several times but bam - disappeared upon reopening the dialog.
Took me a while to realize one has to click the 'Pages' entry again (though it's already selected) to make it appear again.

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Old 09-04-2019, 10:42 AM   #4489
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Nitpick, but it threw me off at first yesterday when going back to testing CSI after quite some time so I wanted to mention it...
When opening the 'Control Surface Settings' dialog, the 'Surfaces' entry doesn't appear immediately although the corresponding 'Pages' entry is selected. At first I thought the 'Surfaces' entry I made previously disappeared so I made a new one several times but bam - disappeared upon reopening the dialog.
Took me a while to realize one has to click the 'Pages' entry again (though it's already selected) to make it appear again.

Thanks, yet another Win only behaviour.

Please do report any you find, my Win test enviro sucks
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Old 09-04-2019, 01:31 PM   #4490
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Hey Geoff,
Is there a way I can output sweeping MIDI note#s, CCs, or whatnot to the Console 1 to observe it's behavior in search of any possible hidden commands? Or has something like that been done yet? - or is it even necessary?
Not quite sure how to ask what I'm asking - lol.

btw - very excited about that GUI!!
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Old 09-04-2019, 01:53 PM   #4491
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Or how about this: how exactly does one go about finding the midi commands the hardware actually responds to?
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Old 09-04-2019, 01:59 PM   #4492
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Is there a way I can output sweeping MIDI note#s, CCs, or whatnot to the Console 1 to observe it's behavior in search of any possible hidden commands?
E.g. you can do a JSFX that programmatically outputs Midi events.

-Michael
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Old 09-04-2019, 03:31 PM   #4493
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E.g. you can do a JSFX that programmatically outputs Midi events.

-Michael
Ok - that's pretty much what I'm doing.
I've managed to find the following regarding the Console 1:

InputMeterL = CC110
InputMeterR = CC111
OutputMeterL = CC112
OutputMeter R = CC113
ShapeGRMeter = CC114
CompGRMeter - CC115

So the missing Shape Gain Reduction Meter is on CC114 (I don't know the translation of that, but I'm sure you guys probably do). Also, they all seem to respond equally from lowest to highest from 0-127 and are all on channel 1.
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Old 09-04-2019, 04:07 PM   #4494
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Originally Posted by Mr. Green View Post
Ok - that's pretty much what I'm doing.
I've managed to find the following regarding the Console 1:

InputMeterL = CC110
InputMeterR = CC111
OutputMeterL = CC112
OutputMeter R = CC113
ShapeGRMeter = CC114
CompGRMeter - CC115

So the missing Shape Gain Reduction Meter is on CC114 (I don't know the translation of that, but I'm sure you guys probably do). Also, they all seem to respond equally from lowest to highest from 0-127 and are all on channel 1.
Cool, thanks !!
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Old 09-04-2019, 04:10 PM   #4495
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New build is up.

More toys, mostly sizzle, tiny bit of steak, so don't expect anything to actually work

But, if all goes well, set up like before, then ToggleLearnMode.

Move a mapped control -- should be a whole lot of action.

What vibe do you get ?
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Old 09-04-2019, 04:36 PM   #4496
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E.g. you can do a JSFX that programmatically outputs Midi events.

-Michael
Which one (plugin)?

Are there other values besides CC?
Note#'s, Velocity, Program Change, etc?
Are they all CC? Or something else entirely?
Never dug this deep into it before.
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Old 09-04-2019, 04:42 PM   #4497
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Hey Geoff,
That issue where actual FX parameters fail to properly link to FX parameter controls until moved (and then they jump) is a pretty big issue when put to use. You mentioned it appears to be a "Reaper issue". Who would I get in touch with about that? Or is that something you should handle?
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Old 09-04-2019, 05:29 PM   #4498
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Originally Posted by Mr. Green View Post
Which one (plugin)?

Are there other values besides CC?
Note#'s, Velocity, Program Change, etc?
Are they all CC? Or something else entirely?
Never dug this deep into it before.
Best to forget all about Note#, Velocity etc.

Control Surfaces repurpose the Midi syntax with completely different semantics.

Concepts like Velocity, Channel Number, etc., are meaningless.

Also hex is the way to go.

Here are a few examples of Mackie Control protocol:

Faders -- e0-ef -- 16 max - other 2 bytes are used for 14 bit volume message.

Switches -- 90 -- byte 2 is switch number -- byte 3 is state (on/off)

Encoders -- b0 -- byte 2 is encoder number -- byte 3 is value -- 0 - 127 -- usually interpreted inc/dec, may have acceleration.

Thinking in Midi musical terms is just confusing
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Old 09-04-2019, 05:36 PM   #4499
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Hey Geoff,
That issue where actual FX parameters fail to properly link to FX parameter controls until moved (and then they jump) is a pretty big issue when put to use. You mentioned it appears to be a "Reaper issue". Who would I get in touch with about that? Or is that something you should handle?
Yeah, remind me on that one, it was a copy move first or something right ?
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Old 09-04-2019, 06:02 PM   #4500
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Yeah, remind me on that one, it was a copy move first or something right ?
It happens when you copy plugs from one slot to another, when you load a preset, and sometimes when you just reload a session. If you show linked FX parameters in the MCP, they exhibit the same behavior.

At least on my system they do (Windows 10). I'd be thrilled if it just turned out to be something I need to check in preferences.
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Old 09-04-2019, 07:53 PM   #4501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Best to forget all about Note#, Velocity etc.

Control Surfaces repurpose the Midi syntax with completely different semantics.

Concepts like Velocity, Channel Number, etc., are meaningless.

Also hex is the way to go.

Here are a few examples of Mackie Control protocol:

Faders -- e0-ef -- 16 max - other 2 bytes are used for 14 bit volume message.

Switches -- 90 -- byte 2 is switch number -- byte 3 is state (on/off)

Encoders -- b0 -- byte 2 is encoder number -- byte 3 is value -- 0 - 127 -- usually interpreted inc/dec, may have acceleration.

Thinking in Midi musical terms is just confusing
What plugin/software can I use to output ranges of midi syntax?

Also, how do name displays get their data?
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Old 09-04-2019, 10:00 PM   #4502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Green View Post
Which one (plugin)?
Supposedly ysou need to write it yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Green View Post
Are there other values besides CC?
Note#'s, Velocity, Program Change, etc?
Are they all CC? Or something else entirely?
Of course there is the official Midi specification for many Midi messages types -> https://www.midi.org/specifications

But as Geoff already pointed out, this does not help much, as The MC protocol, instead of decently using it for the purpose at hand (e.g. by making use of high resolution CCs and Velocity or the (rather new) 14 but CC number spec, slaughters the Midi spec for it's purpose, to save transmission bandwidth. Anyway, you also can send MCP Midi by your JSFX.

-Michael
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Old 09-05-2019, 02:59 AM   #4503
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Slight design tweak.

We really shouldn't be restricting information from the surface -- aka Press/Release.

What we really should do is control it at the Action, like Toggle:

Code:
IgnoreRelease+someButton someAction
Toggle will also automatically set ignoreRelease = true.

That means that these will go away soon:

Midi Widget -- PressRelease

OSC Widget -- PressOnly
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Old 09-05-2019, 04:33 AM   #4504
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Nobody has had a chance to try the new ToggleLearnMode in the build from last evening ?
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Old 09-05-2019, 08:23 AM   #4505
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Nobody has had a chance to try the new ToggleLearnMode in the build from last evening ?
Well, I don't know what it's currently like for others, but for me, when I get the Learn Mode window up on screen, the rest of Reaper becomes inaccessible - with the exception of being able to move around open windows. Otherwise, the only thing I can do at that point is either select some parameters in the Learn Mode window, or force-quit Reaper.
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Old 09-05-2019, 08:38 AM   #4506
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Nobody has had a chance to try the new ToggleLearnMode in the build from last evening ?

Unfortunately I've not had a chance yet.
Hoping to see what breaks tonight lol
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Old 09-05-2019, 09:37 AM   #4507
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Originally Posted by Mr. Green View Post
Well, I don't know what it's currently like for others, but for me, when I get the Learn Mode window up on screen, the rest of Reaper becomes inaccessible - with the exception of being able to move around open windows. Otherwise, the only thing I can do at that point is either select some parameters in the Learn Mode window, or force-quit Reaper.
You on Windows ?

If so, know problem.

You don't need to force quit (that sounds like Mac), you just need to ToggleLearnMode again, and you will be back.

You can still adjust controls and see what happens
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Old 09-05-2019, 09:38 AM   #4508
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Unfortunately I've not had a chance yet.
Hoping to see what breaks tonight lol
Hopefully, you will be able to report on the beginnings of ToggleLearnMode
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Old 09-05-2019, 12:08 PM   #4509
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
You on Windows ?

If so, know problem.

You don't need to force quit (that sounds like Mac), you just need to ToggleLearnMode again, and you will be back.

You can still adjust controls and see what happens
Ok - yeah - lots of crazy stuff now! lol
So in the Console 1 panel (pretty sure that's referencing which surface just sent given command), I get the full list of widgets, and they seem to auto-select when I move a knob or switch.

In the Current Zone Entry panel, the Widget field changes to whichever Widget was triggered, and the Action field says, "NoAction", followed by blank fields in Param and Alias fields.

Below that is a panel for what appears to be the active selected Zone with all it's assigned commands listed out as they are in the .zon files. When moving fx parameters, however, it appears to be showing the wrong fx, as it is showing my mapped out eq at the end of the fx chain rather than the Console 1 fx which is selected.

To the right in the Actions panel, it is listing out all the FXParameters for the selected FX zone along with the list of commands that might otherwise be assigned to a widget.

At the top, it appears to be showing the name of the .zon file that is currently active and all available zones within it.

Think that about covers it so far. :-)
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Old 09-05-2019, 01:31 PM   #4510
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Ok - yeah - lots of crazy stuff now! lol
So in the Console 1 panel (pretty sure that's referencing which surface just sent given command), I get the full list of widgets, and they seem to auto-select when I move a knob or switch.

In the Current Zone Entry panel, the Widget field changes to whichever Widget was triggered, and the Action field says, "NoAction", followed by blank fields in Param and Alias fields.

Below that is a panel for what appears to be the active selected Zone with all it's assigned commands listed out as they are in the .zon files. When moving fx parameters, however, it appears to be showing the wrong fx, as it is showing my mapped out eq at the end of the fx chain rather than the Console 1 fx which is selected.

To the right in the Actions panel, it is listing out all the FXParameters for the selected FX zone along with the list of commands that might otherwise be assigned to a widget.

At the top, it appears to be showing the name of the .zon file that is currently active and all available zones within it.

Think that about covers it so far. :-)
Excellent, told you it doesn't really work yet, but you see the concepts

I think LearnMode is going to be OK...
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Old 09-05-2019, 03:28 PM   #4511
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Hopefully, you will be able to report on the beginnings of ToggleLearnMode
Tried it, window popped open, a lot of blank areas, no idea how it's meant to work.

Funny feeling it buggered up everything else on me. further investigation.
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Old 09-05-2019, 03:35 PM   #4512
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Tried it, window popped open, a lot of blank areas, no idea how it's meant to work.

Funny feeling it buggered up everything else on me. further investigation.
Haha, just do this:

Start Reaper.

Do whatever you do to get your Surface controlling something.

Press whatever button you have mapped to ToggleLearnMode.

The Window shows.

Turn some knobs on your surface.
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Old 09-05-2019, 04:27 PM   #4513
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New build is up.

LearnMode UI improvements.
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Old 09-05-2019, 05:21 PM   #4514
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Not sure if it's too early to report?, but niggles I noticed with the Learn window (using build from #4513):

- occassionally truncated text with longer entries

- If something in 'Current Action' is displayed currently, entry doesn't go blank if pressing a button on the surface which isn't mapped to any action, still displays previous action until pressing a button which is mapped to an action. (Could be that I understand usage wrong though..)
Here only "FastForward" widget is actually mapped to "ToggleLearnMode":
https://i.imgur.com/5yLVTCx.gif

- Widget list blinks when turning a fader / knob
https://i.imgur.com/eaKcjeT.gif

Last edited by nofish; 09-05-2019 at 05:28 PM.
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Old 09-05-2019, 05:39 PM   #4515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nofish View Post
Not sure if it's too early to report?, but niggles I noticed with the Learn window (using build from #4513):

- occassionally truncated text with longer entries

- If something in 'Current Action' is displayed currently, entry doesn't go blank if pressing a button on the surface which isn't mapped to any action, still displays previous action until pressing a button which is mapped to an action. (Could be that I understand usage wrong though..)
Here only "FastForward" widget is actually mapped to "ToggleLearnMode":
https://i.imgur.com/5yLVTCx.gif

- Widget list blinks when turning a fader / knob
https://i.imgur.com/eaKcjeT.gif
Haha, nobody said it actually works

Seriously, I should say it again, this is in no way functional, just a first look to head off any, OMG don't do it that way, or can't believe you forgot to... that kind of stuff.

Functionality will get added over the next while.
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Old 09-05-2019, 05:59 PM   #4516
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Ok, got it.
I missed the "to head off any OMG don't do it that way, or can't believe you forgot to..." intention indeed.

Out of curiousity, would you tell with which cross platform GUI approach / framework you went in the end? Because when starting this project I vaguely rember you considering JUCE / WDL / ..
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Old 09-05-2019, 06:06 PM   #4517
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Also, I don't know if this matters, but I just discovered that the JS Channel Router plugin will render Modifiers useless. That's why I couldn't get them to work, but after removing that plugin it works. Any ideas why, can that be fixed?
Looks like its the first plugin has the "lead" I guess, so only the first plugin will accept my modifiers. Tried a few.

Spark any ideas?
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Old 09-05-2019, 06:14 PM   #4518
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Out of curiousity, would you tell with which cross platform GUI approach / framework you went in the end? Because when starting this project I vaguely rember you considering JUCE / WDL / ..
Went with WDL, straightforward, no getting caught up in version issues etc.
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Old 09-05-2019, 06:18 PM   #4519
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Geoff,
Since you are working on what elements should be included in a gui, is there a possibility a behavioral modification window might be in the future? I.e. value ranges, variable math, repeats, toggles, negative values, etc.
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Old 09-05-2019, 06:22 PM   #4520
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Geoff,
Since you are working on what elements should be included in a gui, is there a possibility a behavioral modification window might be in the future? I.e. value ranges, variable math, repeats, toggles, negative values, etc.
Good ideas, Toggle is already available, the rest look interesting.

I think for a first cut, we should go with the simplest possible control set, which is still pretty intimidating

But good points, please keep 'em coming...
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