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01-17-2007, 01:49 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 666
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Does Reaper edit at sample level?
Someone on another site made the comment we don't have sample editing. What happens when you magnify right in on an item in Reaper, is that down to one sample? It looks very similar to Samplitude which I'm pretty sure would. Just curious, I haven't found anything I couldn't cut or select/modify whatever, I'd just like to know what I'm talking about and any advantages/disadvantages therein.
So if anyone with some technical knowledge here would jump in?
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01-17-2007, 02:49 PM
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#2
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,746
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you can do sample-level editing, however you can't manipulate the sample directly.. you can put in a tiny fade, etc, though...
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01-17-2007, 02:57 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 666
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Thanks!
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01-17-2007, 03:53 PM
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#4
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Mortal
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wickenburg, Arizona
Posts: 14,051
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needs to go past 1:1 and show dots for the slices
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01-17-2007, 04:53 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 666
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Samplitude has the best looking one I think when you get down that low, it looks like skyscrapers sort of...eyecandy I grant you, but cool.
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01-17-2007, 07:08 PM
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#6
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Mortal
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wickenburg, Arizona
Posts: 14,051
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skyscrapers or dots, either is fine with me
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01-17-2007, 07:21 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 666
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I also noticed you can zoom in a bit further in Samplitude, to about 3 samples across the screen...might be handy for crossfading a single sample?? Might be useless too...anyway, it looks cool.
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01-17-2007, 07:49 PM
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#8
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Mortal
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,654
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Skyscrapers gives rise to the notion that digital audio is actually some kind of high-speed square wave, whereas the design of D to A conversion means that it's a perfectly normal waveform. So dots on a waveform which illustrates what you'll hear after D to A conversion is perhaps technically more correct, though I concede that one could argue over which is a better user interface method.
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01-17-2007, 07:52 PM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 666
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I'm easy...it's all good, whatever Justin likes (or doesn't!)
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01-17-2007, 07:54 PM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 313
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As far as I am concerned, though curves would be more accurate, the 'skyscraper' type drawing has a couple advantages. First it makes it abundantly clear where the next sample is, and second it might cost less CPU to draw a straight line than figure a curve.
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01-17-2007, 08:16 PM
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#11
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Evans
Skyscrapers gives rise to the notion that digital audio is actually some kind of high-speed square wave, whereas the design of D to A conversion means that it's a perfectly normal waveform. So dots on a waveform which illustrates what you'll hear after D to A conversion is perhaps technically more correct, though I concede that one could argue over which is a better user interface method.
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well right now we show each sample as a line so it's just not obvious enough (and two subsequent samples that are the same are blended into one)
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01-17-2007, 09:27 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
well right now we show each sample as a line so it's just not obvious enough (and two subsequent samples that are the same are blended into one)
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Perhaps the lines could continue to the zero crossing? Seems to make a big difference in how you view the part to edit, if you have a huge zoom you don't have to concentrate on the top of the wave when you have vertical lines running down them.(my skyscraper analogy)
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01-17-2007, 09:32 PM
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#13
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevoss
Perhaps the lines could continue to the zero crossing? Seems to make a big difference in how you view the part to edit, if you have a huge zoom you don't have to concentrate on the top of the wave when you have vertical lines running down them.(my skyscraper analogy)
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something nifty is coming for 1.68 =)
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01-17-2007, 09:38 PM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 666
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Oh goody
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01-17-2007, 09:39 PM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: stuck in transition
Posts: 1,870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
something nifty is coming for 1.68 =)
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shit yeah. i love this band!!!
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01-17-2007, 10:58 PM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 668
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personally I really like having an EXTERNAL editor... only thing I've noticed using GoldWave is that REAPER needs to be stopped to save the edited sample... Fine with me... and oh so lean REAPER continues to thrill... I get very nervous , shakey even having run StingBerg and E-no-Magic bloat for oh so long....
ahhhhh..... sweet reaper...
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01-17-2007, 11:28 PM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 666
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I've got Reaper and Samplitude set as external editors, but truthfully I hardly need to use them.
I wonder if the surprise is an editor???
How much is Reaper forums like an addictive soap, just waiting to see what the next download brings?
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01-18-2007, 03:23 AM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 1,279
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I'd say Sam has the best sample display which is a must anyway for any sample accurate positioning and 'NULL TESTS'
Cheers
M
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01-18-2007, 05:21 AM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maa
I'd say Sam has the best sample display which is a must anyway for any sample accurate positioning and 'NULL TESTS'
Cheers
M
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Precisely correct. Samplitudes display is a perfect visual representation of the actual digital audio, clearly defining time & level of each individual sample (which is what sample accurate editing is all about).
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01-18-2007, 09:37 AM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NA - North Augusta South Carolina
Posts: 4,294
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I do wish there were a single-sample manipulation method...
Zooming in Reaper seems to occur in stages, or at least has that feel to me. Somewhat like those CGI movie shots of "great distance>medium distance>close>micro",
Hmm..
Actually, the problem is showing dots/points at a zoomed out threshold so that you can get a feeling as to where to "aim" the cursor for the zoom...
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01-18-2007, 02:47 PM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Toronto ON
Posts: 314
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I pair Reaper with CoolEdit 2000, which has a nice per-sample editing mode, including pencil-editing.
I generally find that pencil-editing and redrawing individual samples gives less than amazing results. I generally do better by selecting a region of a few samples and applying a gain change, fades or a filter over those few samples.
Example - applying a lowpass filter over a region where there's a sharp transient over a lower sustained note - the lowpass dulls the transient but preserves the proper curve of the steady note.
I'll also cut a whole cycle, or replace one whole cycle with another, to remove glitches or transients.
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01-18-2007, 03:57 PM
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#22
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Mortal
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,654
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In Audition ("fill single click now") and other editors there's the interpolation kind of tool which can avoid the need to draw by hand - basically samples are taken from either side of the click and it's filled in from that in logical fashion. Heh, I wonder whether Justin could provide something like that in real time?? After stating that Reaper would never have noise reduction, and seeing it implemented in a week, I'm not about to use the word "never" again!
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01-18-2007, 07:42 PM
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#23
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Mortal
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wickenburg, Arizona
Posts: 14,051
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alright I just took a good look at the same display. I gotta say perfer the dots in vegas, but wouldnt mind either one
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01-18-2007, 07:49 PM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,572
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with the cool edit thingy, the cursor changes automatically to a thingy to draw the thingys.
no tool switching
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01-18-2007, 07:54 PM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 40
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I don't remember seeing dots in Vegas. I do remember them in Cool Edit / Audition though. I find it easier with the dots when doing fine grain editing, finding zero crossings, and nudging as close as possible to the beginning of a transient.
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01-19-2007, 12:48 AM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 37
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Ask & ye shall recieve!
Well that was fast. Love the new sample level display on the 1.68
release! Pretty nearly like Samplitude. Only significant improvement to it I might suggest would be to have the cursor automatically snap/align to the sample borders as obviously you can't split a file in the midle of a sample or move it less than a sample distance in time anyway.
Last edited by knowdoubt; 01-19-2007 at 01:37 AM.
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01-19-2007, 03:30 AM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knowdoubt
Well that was fast. Love the new sample level display on the 1.68
release! Pretty nearly like Samplitude. Only significant improvement to it I might suggest would be to have the cursor automatically snap/align to the sample borders as obviously you can't split a file in the midle of a sample or move it less than a sample distance in time anyway.
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I was thinking about that too, about snapping to the border. I also noticed Samplitude goes down to about 3-4 samples across the screen, whereas Reaper only gets to about 20-30 at maximum zoom (I didn't count them). It might be useful for accuracy to go further.
Or not.
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01-19-2007, 09:00 AM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NA - North Augusta South Carolina
Posts: 4,294
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I like the zooming in 1.68 better now, except...
When you're zoomed all the way, it appears you can select a loop that starts on "half" a sample....? It gives the impression you don't really have sample-by-sample control. I haven't had time to play with it, so maybe I've missed something...
A thinger to control the things, as Jason points out, would be cool... mainly for removing clicks manually, that sort of thing...
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01-19-2007, 09:49 AM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 1,279
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Yes - the display is getting there but marking should jump to the sample borders whether Snap is on or not - afeter all there is no way of playing a smaller area is there.....
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01-19-2007, 01:23 PM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maa
Yes - the display is getting there but marking should jump to the sample borders whether Snap is on or not - afeter all there is no way of playing a smaller area is there.....
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+1 If that was the case more zoom would be redundant. As you say, you can't play a portion of a single sample...maybe fade it in/out but that's it.
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01-19-2007, 01:25 PM
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#31
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,746
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well, reaper does support sub-sample accuracy
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01-19-2007, 01:28 PM
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#32
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 666
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Ha, good one...
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01-19-2007, 03:49 PM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arse end of the earth.
Posts: 2,988
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01-19-2007, 05:09 PM
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#34
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 1,279
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Yes Billoon - as I said above.....
If snap is on of off it makes no difference at sample level because there is no smaller value - the cursor should snap. Items to then naturally.
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