you've totally lost me...

[Third Son]

I feel Reaper is already easy to use "out of the box" I also use only about 5-10% of its capability....when a new version comes out, I look at what has changed and am amazed that I know absolutely nothing about what the upgrades mean. Does it matter to me...nope...I can just ignore the upgrade details and go on my merry way. To those more in a Pro environment, the changes are more relevant.

I think it is cool when I find a new feature after asking myself if there is a better way to do a particular task within Reaper...is probably is already there, I just have to look...like dragging tracks and snapping to grid, recording takes, opening new tabs, organizing folders. I learned all this by using Reaper almost every day and hanging around these forums... a real blessing!

Perhaps a Quick Start guide for those who are less DAW savvy would be a good thing to have....isn't there a Pipelineaudio video tutorial for this?

[cheesesteak]

Originally Posted by Third Son

I feel Reaper is already easy to use "out of the box" I also use only about 5-10% of its capability....when a new version comes out, I look at what has changed and am amazed that I know absolutely nothing about what the upgrades mean. Does it matter to me...nope...I can just ignore the upgrade details and go on my merry way. To those more in a Pro environment, the changes are more relevant.

100% true for me too.

[Tedwood]

Originally Posted by nicholas

Well I hope it didn't appear otherwise, but my comment was quite serious and intended to be generally helpful, even though it turned out in the end not to be much help ...

I am sure Tallis didn't mean you Nicholas.

I too am dismayed at some of the, shall we say, unsympathetic remarks here.

Randal has a perfectly valid point. REAPER does move fast, maybe too fast if you get stuck into a project for a while and when you finish it everything is different. Yes sure you can stick on an earlier version, but everyone wants improvements in certain areas.

The problem is about having your workflow disturbed, not some sort of character deficiency as it seems some would imply

The best advice I can think of to stay ahead is perhaps a dedicated board where people can query changes without being abused. So many questions are getting lost that might be easier to find.

Maybe we could call the board WTF is this!

[norbury brook]

I feel a good analogy is needed here

Restaurants!

when I go into a restaurant and pickup the menu I don't want 30 pages of choice, it's too much.I'd rather have one page with 5 or 6 choices of starters/mains/deserts.A small (perfecty cooked and sourced from fresh ingredients) menu is preferable to 100 dishes trying to please everyone.


I understand the OP's post, I too don't have time to be constantly checking updates and what they do, too much choice isn't allways the best way.

I hope v4 will consolidate all the new additions to preferences and new GUI elements into a more cohesive and elegantly designed program


MC

[schwa]

Originally Posted by RHGraham

many basic things have changed multiple times over the many versions and upgrades from the early 2.XX days.

My response to the OP, and to anyone else who has the same feelings, is: specifically what feature would you like to see simplified? I can't think offhand of a basic feature that was simpler in an older version that is now more complex, but if you have something specific in mind, could you describe it?

Reaper development is driven in large part by feature requests from users. What we would be looking for to address the OP's issue is a feature request like "make this specific editing behavior do X like it used to instead of Y like it does now". Feature requests about simplifying workflow are just as valid as feature requests about adding new things.

A lot of people are suggesting streamlining the menus, that's also perfectly valid and something we hear all the time (and to be honest something we've been hearing since about version 1.8). It's certainly something we'll be looking at for the next big version number change, though it will be quite tricky to find the right way to do this to maximize the benefit for old and new users alike.

But, apart from the menus being long, if anyone has suggestions for specific behaviors that should be (or used to be) simpler, please make the suggestions!

[ngarjuna]

I understand where the OP is coming from but I'm not sure I entirely agree that REAPER is the problem.

To me the bigger issue is that recording is not a simple thing. It never has been. It was never easy to maintain or operate a tape machine; it was never easy to mix in the old analog domain; understanding the underlying electrical issues; these things take not only practice and time but a good general knowledge of a wide variety of techniques.

And it's not a UI thing. Most of the stuff in the REAPER menus is pretty clear if you have a background in recording (especially in digital recording). If you don't, then I would imagine it looks pretty crowded with weird stuff that might not seem all that useful. I can only assure you that, to someone with experience, most of those features aren't all that weird or tangential.

In other "simpler" DAWs our need for these advanced features and functions is no less; we just had to find workarounds (VSTs and the like) because the hosts didn't offer the operability that is required in the complex subject of recording.

There actually are hosts which are created specifically for people who don't want to approach the complexity of the art of recording, who just want to "start making music". I have no beef with such things existing, I fully understand the people they are designed for and I'm glad those folks have choices. But I don't think that reducing REAPER to this sort of host would be a benefit to many of the people who flocked to REAPER especially because it allowed for the various complexities that we enjoy using in our recording processes.

There is a difference between tools meant for professional production and tools meant for more hobbyist users. That's not to say hobbyists can't learn and use pro gear or even that pros can't enjoy using hobbyist gear; I'm sure both of those things happen. But there are plenty of good reasons not to close the gap between these two somewhat disparate goals especially with the consideration that tools do already exist for both.

Any which way, I hope you find a host (or a way to work in REAPER) that benefits your work flow, no doubt that is important.

[norbury brook]

Yes, it is indeed difficult. I downoaded and installed the new menu set and was lost I was in a session and was all fingers and thumbs looking for things

Needless to say I returned to the default menu. I have been using reaper since V.1.x so I'm used to where things are, they might not be in an intuitive place but i've learned where they are over the years.

As i said I hope v4 tidies up all the loose edges into the professional cohesive package that we all want



MC

[Evan]

Originally Posted by schwa

It's certainly something we'll be looking at for the next big version number change, though it will be quite tricky to find the right way to do this to maximize the benefit for old and new users alike.

My opinion is: as long as you maintain (fixing serious bugs) 3.xx, for users who choose to stick with that, you can (and should) take bolder steps in v4. Old users should be able to make a smooth transition to a better UI (menus, organization etc). New users should find it easy to get around things.

[gofer]

When I started out with Reaper I was very pleased about the menu structure. Granted the menus are long, but I was glad that I could find most stuff in the first level and names seemed very descriptively explaining what to expect from an entry.

I hope whatever will be done to the default menu, it will not be put everything into sublevel menus just for a nicer look at the first level.

[RHGraham]

Originally Posted by schwa

My response to the OP, and to anyone else who has the same feelings, is: specifically what feature would you like to see simplified? I can't think offhand of a basic feature that was simpler in an older version that is now more complex, but if there is, what is it?

Reaper development is driven in large part by feature requests from users. What we would be looking for to address the OP's issue is a feature request like "make this specific editing behavior do X like it used to instead of Y like it does now". Feature requests about simplifying workflow are just as valid as feature requests about adding new things.

A lot of people are suggesting streamlining the menus, that's also perfectly valid and something we hear all the time (and to be honest something we've been hearing since about version 1.8). It's certainly something we'll be looking at for the next big version number change, though it will be quite tricky to find the right way to do this to maximize the benefit for old and new users alike.

Well, Schwa, as I said before, it's not so much that I "can't" use the current version of reaper, or I "hate" it now or anything like that, this is not the case.
And I think it is in fact wonderfully powerfull, and should stay that way. Being driven in it's development by it's users is also good.
And maybe I'm not ALL that dumb either...but there are days.
Been recording for 4 decades now actually.

But it's still a bit of a chore to fire up a fresh copy of reaper and dive into the editing in particular, it's very confusing now, and not intuitive at all, as it once was.
And that's simply my point, it was at a place a few years ago, and going in a direction, that worked for me. Now it isn't.
Yeah, I'm dissapointed because I DO recognize the strength of this software, but at least for me it has some weaknesses now as well, and it lies in the menues and the *need* to customize things in order to streamline and simplify editing.
To me, when it became something that *needed* to be done, then it went from being easy and intuitive to being a software kit that has to be assembled to be used. Now, I know most the folks here want that, and that's cool.
It's obvious that the mainstream of the members want that, and they are getting it. I don't begrudge them that, or begrudge reaper for giving it too them.... as I said before, kudos! And I meant it.

But you have to realize there were a bunch of us that signed on because of the ease-of-use out of the box, and the intuitive easy editing, and those things may still be able to be created.... but they are certainly not there anymore as a baseline. And thats why I went with reaper.

ANd it's not that I can't get through the menues and stuff and kinda get that simple editing to happen, I can, I've been recording a long time, and remember when the first personal computers were showing up as the automation engines on our boards.
But I don't want to, it's a pain, it's not fun for me, it's not why I'm into this.
After decades of recording other people's music and helping them achieve what they want, I just want to make my own without a whole lot of deep involvement in the software.
( exactly why the 1973 is my fave eq, as an example. Simple. Sounds good.)

And some of you guys are SO incredibly computer savvy, I know none of that stuff is any challenge for you and I wish I was like that, but I'm not, nor do I want to be. Customizing stuff on computers or in software just isn't what makes me happy, I'd rather build a new guitar or amp or spend an hour finding the sweet spot for my amp in a room.
Then click, and drag, and hit delete to get the buzz out of the track.
Without anything moving, without any menues, without having to change any major operation parameters or settings.
Reaper used to do that as default. I personally would like it to still do that without customizing anything. For folks who aren't that much into computers, it's getting to be a real chore to use Reaper in a simple way.

Anyway, don't really want to stir shit up, just wanted to explain myself.

[Third Son]

Originally Posted by Tedwood

Maybe we could call the board WTF is this!

Ooooh I like this....maybe you are on to something Tedwood :-)

[schwa]

Originally Posted by RHGraham

the editing in particular, it's very confusing now, and not intuitive at all, as it once was.

RHGraham, your reactions or opinions are just as valid as any other user's. What I'm asking is for something specific here. What editing behavior was more intuitive in the past than it is now?

I completely understand being put off by long menus, as I said above, that's something people have been commenting on since about version 1.8. But what specific editing behaviors have changed?

Because, if there is something we can change to make the Reaper experience better for you (and others who feel the way you do), we'd like to do so!

[RHGraham]

Originally Posted by ngarjuna

I understand where the OP is coming from but I'm not sure I entirely agree that REAPER is the problem.

To me the bigger issue is that recording is not a simple thing. It never has been. It was never easy to maintain or operate a tape machine; it was never easy to mix in the old analog domain; understanding the underlying electrical issues; these things take not only practice and time but a good general knowledge of a wide variety of techniques.
Any which way, I hope you find a host (or a way to work in REAPER) that benefits your work flow, no doubt that is important.

I understand your point but I've been recording, on tape, for about 37 years now, a great part of that time was full-time, as a profession. I'm taking a working vacation later on this year to help some friends get a 2 inch studer sorted out and running and to teach them how to do the set-up and maintanance. I'm also building them the patchbay and wiring the studio in general.

The default configuration of Reaper is not all that easy to use anymore, for people who do not live deeply in computers as a living, or serious passion, or whatever. For those of us who just use computers as tools and don't really want to dive into them to deeply, and want to primarily make music, and not custom software actions, Reaper is getting a little frustrating.

Obviously, this stuff is easy for you, computer-wise, cool, I kinda envy that sometimes. But not everybody out there is like that. Nor should they have to be, IMO, to use the software, that's all I'm saying.

[ngarjuna]

Originally Posted by RHGraham

I understand your point but I've been recording, on tape, for about 37 years now, a great part of that time was full-time, as a profession. I'm taking a working vacation later on this year to help some friends get a 2 inch studer sorted out and running and to teach them how to do the set-up and maintanance. I'm also building them the patchbay and wiring the studio in general.

The default configuration of Reaper is not all that easy to use anymore, for people who do not live deeply in computers as a living, or serious passion, or whatever. For those of us who just use computers as tools and don't really want to dive into them to deeply, and want to primarily make music, and not custom software actions, Reaper is getting a little frustrating.

Obviously, this stuff is easy for you, computer-wise, cool, I kinda envy that sometimes. But not everybody out there is like that. Nor should they have to be, IMO, to use the software, that's all I'm saying.

I understand what you're saying. While I obviously stand behind my previous statements for whatever they're worth it seems they don't really apply so much to your situation, which I now have a better understanding of.

[gofer]

That "click+drag+hit delete" thing, I must have come too late to Reaper for it (around 2.3 or so). Maybe formerly the delete key removed only the selected part of an item?

This would now be CTRL+delete (cut selected area of items) I think I left that at default, but there's a possibility that I changed it to that shortcut myself, so have a grain of salt with it...

[RHGraham]

Originally Posted by schwa

RHGraham, your reactions or opinions are just as valid as any other user's. What I'm asking is for something specific here. What editing behavior was more intuitive in the past than it is now?

I completely understand being put off by long menus, as I said above, that's something people have been commenting on since about version 1.8. But what specific editing behaviors have changed?

Because, if there is something we can change to make the Reaper experience better for you (and others who feel the way you do), we'd like to do so!

Well, basically, it never took more than a few setting tweaks to be able to choose a track, click and drag on the bits where the amp buzzed of the singer belched or the drummer squeeked, and hit delete, and that bit went away and the rest stayed where it was.
Now it's a bunch of work to figure out how to do that.

Now I'm not trying to be a smartass or be condacending by putting it that way, I'm just making the point that if "simple, intuitive, and easy-to-use" is going to remain as marketing print for Reaper then that, IMO, is going to have to be the basline when you load reaper up.

This was the original advantage of digital realm recording over tape-based, ease of editing. Being able to make the noise go away, being able to pick something up and move it to another place.
Yeah, that's really simple. Yeah, reaper can do WAY more than that now... that's awesome too.

But basics man, basics, if you can't get to the basics easy a lot of folks are going to be turned off, and in comparison, might as well go back to 2 inch tape and a razor blade. A lot of super-tech savvy folks here, some of them scare me with how knowledgeable they are.
But everybody isn't like that. I think there are more folks out there who just want to record thier own music with a simple system than many realize.

[schwa]

Originally Posted by gofer

Maybe formerly the delete key removed only the selected part of an item?

I just installed Reaper v2.000 to check (hello, Brad Sucks!). As far as I can tell, delete always deleted the selected item, not the area within the time selection. Ctrl+delete has always deleted the area within the time selection.

I want to be clear, this isn't about nitpicking the OP's issues! It's about trying to get a better understanding of which behaviors have changed or become more complicated.

[tspring]

Originally Posted by schwa

But, apart from the menus being long, if anyone has suggestions for specific behaviors that should be (or used to be) simpler, please make the suggestions!

I would suggest that the key is to provide more flexibility in what options are exposed to the user. Personally, I find Reapers menus to be logically arranged. But it can be a bit tedious just finding simple functions like removing a track if you have to look through a long series of actions in several menus. And this will only get worse as Reaper's capabilities grow. I think that the key is to help the user to selectively hide things, and expose them only as they are needed.

Perhaps on the preferences menu, there could be a a group of checkboxes where the user could choose basic, intermediate, or advanced modes of operation for Reaper. Here I mean mode to refer only to what is displayed in menus, and do not imply any other change in functionality. For example, in the 'basic mode', Reaper would show a subset of functions tailored for a user who wants to just set up a few tracks, record and do very basic edit functions without having to wade through the full list of functions. The other functions would simply not be displayed in the menus. Each of the other modes would expose progressively more of the menu items.

I suspect that you could set up something like this now using ReaMenus. But for lots of folks the complexity of doing this is probably a barrier. But if it could be as simple as a checkbox, then they would probably be good to go.

T

[gofer]

Originally Posted by schwa

I want to be clear, this isn't about nitpicking the OP's issues! It's about trying to get a better understanding of which behaviors have changed or become more complicated.

I quote that part because I whole-heartedly feel the same and don't want that RHGraham thinks I try to belittle him. I just want to be a tiny bit of help in that particular question and get him back to speed.

RHGraham, did you check CTRL+delete in that situation?

[RHGraham]

Originally Posted by gofer

That "click+drag+hit delete" thing, I must have come too late to Reaper for it (around 2.3 or so). Maybe formerly the delete key removed only the selected part of an item?

This would now be CTRL+delete (cut selected area of items) I think I left that at default, but there's a possibility that I changed it to that shortcut myself, so have a grain of salt with it...

Don't believe I used the delete key actually, all with the mouse, but to be honest, I'm getting enough confused by things as they are now that I don't clearly remember exactly how I did it. All I know is there was a time when I could click on a spot, drag across the section I wanted highlighted, and easily delete what was there. Without customizing anything.
Maybe I want things too simple and that's the issue.

But I know there are countless musicians out there who also would like it that simple, and I think it's a very large potential customer pool.

[RHGraham]

Originally Posted by schwa

I just installed Reaper v2.000 to check (hello, Brad Sucks!). As far as I can tell, delete always deleted the selected item, not the area within the time selection. Ctrl+delete has always deleted the area within the time selection.

I want to be clear, this isn't about nitpicking the OP's issues! It's about trying to get a better understanding of which behaviors have changed or become more complicated.

I'm sure that was how it was done Schwa, my point being that it doesn't seem to be that easy anymore. Maybe it is and I'm just getting overwhelmed by all the stuff that I can mess up trying to figure thing out... I'm completely aware that this is an issue with me and not the software. maybe along the way I buggered something and thats the issue.
I suppose I can download a fresh copy and see.

But being that easy to bugger up is kinda just a different side of the same coin though ain't it?

[Tedwood]

Originally Posted by tspring

Perhaps on the preferences menu, there could be a a group of checkboxes where the user could choose basic, intermediate, or advanced modes of operation for Reaper. For example, in the 'basic mode', Reaper would show a subset of functions tailored for a user who wants to just set up a few tracks, record and do very basic edit functions without having to wade through the full list of functions. The other functions would simply not be displayed in the menus. Each of the other modes would expose progressively more of the menu items.


T

Modes was an idea suggested some time ago from Spike Mullins I believe. His idea was to have different modes for different tasks, such as Tracking, Editing, Mixing and Mastering IIRC.

I added my own thoughts to suggest REAPER would have three sets of user levels like some HTML editors I have used - i.e.

Minimal:
As Default. All the basic stuff, which would not change unless it has to from version to version

Full:
Everything - pretty much as it is now.

Custom:
This one could start as Full, or Minimal, and you add or subtract prefs and menus to taste, and save them. Possibly you could have more than one "Custom mode" which would then realise Spikes dream of having a set of modes for different tasks.

Maybe this sounds complicated but it's not, because you can always switch to Minimal or Full as desired

At any time you could switch between these modes as your workflow demanded via a button on the tool bar

[AudioWonderland]

Originally Posted by Tallisman

I think that for some folks, yes.
nice to see some kinder replies too. thanks fellas!

.t

Why does every tool out there have to be designed for the lowest common denominator? If its beyond someones ability they have choices. Find something else. Buy a hardware workstation. Hire time in a studio. All this "boohoo, Reaper is too hard" is just ridiculous. You are basically asking the developers to dumb down their product and make it a less powerful tool because you can't be bothered to put in the time.

A modern DAW is not a simple thing and its not meant to be. Its meant to be a tool to accomplish a specific task. Somehow our society has decided that everyone has to play, everyone has to be included and to hell with the idea that you actually have to work at something to learn it and earn it.

If that sound harsh then so be it.

[DBMusic]

I'm trying hard find some empathy with the OP, and granted I'm a relatively new user of around 9 months now, but I never once found the great pace of development and updates were in any way detrimental or obfuscating to the core audio recording/editing/production functionality in Reaper.

Yes, it does contain an ever-growing number and often dizzying array of new and refined features. But that's a bad thing? Developers of my previous DAW software had glaring bugs for 5+ years despite ongoing user protestation. I find myself constantly impressed with the way the Cockos team is sensitive and responsive to user desires and concerns. Also, the collaborative and supportive efforts of the forum participants are second to none.

Let's face it, with any DAW you need to apply some diligent and consistent effort to make it work for you. And it will never, ever be perfect for anyone. Reaper allows unprecedented opportunities for involvement and customization of what you want "your" DAW to be. So I agree with schwa here...if the OP would make a little effort to define exactly what his issues are I think they could be remedied rather quickly.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I'm just not buying this "Reaper has totally lost me because it no longer lets me easily do things because all the new features get in the way" parting shot. I often think these "I'm upset with my DAW software and leaving the forum and want everyone to know it" posts that you see common to all DAW forums are more about a cry for sympathy and attention.

DAWs are not tape machines. You have to apply a little creative and consistent effort, otherwise it's probably best to find another playground.

Regards,

DB

[Tedwood]

Originally Posted by AudioWonderland

A modern DAW is not a simple thing and its not meant to be. Its meant to be a tool to accomplish a specific task. Somehow our society has decided that everyone has to play, everyone has to be included and to hell with the idea that you actually have to work at something to learn it and earn it.

If that sound harsh then so be it.

It's not really harsh AudioWonder but I feel it's a bit ignorant (too harsh a word perhaps?)

Yes A DAW is not a simple thing, but if I may quote Albert Einstein

Originally Posted by Einstein

Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler

Gosh! I wish some of you guys would stop being so defensive

[RichardM]

Interesting ... I'm one of those who uses only the basics of REAPER.

I would liken my experience to that of typing in Microsoft Word. I crank out an occasional letter, using the basics like bold, underline, indents, tables, etc. I have never used auto table of contents generation, headers, footers, columns or other more-advanced features.

Similarly, when I'm using REAPER I need only the basics. I record mostly audio, and if it's midi it's generally just a simple VSTI for a piano or string sound. Mixing and editing is also simple - snip out some noisy bits, add EQ, Compression, reverb or other effects, set levels and pans, etc.

When the new stuff comes out, I read the changelog and 90% of the time I have no idea what the change is, what it does, or what it could do for me.

My main point would be that the advanced stuff doesn't really get in my way. I just ignore what I don't use. If I want to chop out a piece of audio, I still split it at the start and end, and delete that bit - same way I've always done it.

[Lawrence]

Originally Posted by Tedwood

Gosh! I wish some of you guys would stop being so defensive

So I'm actually not the only one who sees that?

[RHGraham]

Originally Posted by AudioWonderland

Why does every tool out there have to be designed for the lowest common denominator? If its beyond someones ability they have choices. Find something else. Buy a hardware workstation. Hire time in a studio. All this "boohoo, Reaper is too hard" is just ridiculous. You are basically asking the developers to dumb down their product and make it a less powerful tool because you can't be bothered to put in the time.

A modern DAW is not a simple thing and its not meant to be. Its meant to be a tool to accomplish a specific task. Somehow our society has decided that everyone has to play, everyone has to be included and to hell with the idea that you actually have to work at something to learn it and earn it.

If that sound harsh then so be it.

It is harsh, as I think you've totally missed my point. I'm not asking that anything be dumbed-down. I just think the default set-up when loaded should have some basic things available in a basic way.

And I would guess that I've put in more time recording than a great many folks here, and have put lots of work into it, thanks very much.

Some of us want to make music and not spend a lot of time dealing with the intricasies of the tools.
I don't see how that is "dumbing down" anything.

I edited this cause now I'm being an asshole.... having a rough year.

Hey, not a plea for attention, I don't care essentially if my thoughts are heard or not in the end, just wanted to bring up a point.
If it works fine for everybody else that's cool. Maybe I buggered something up and it's all on me... this is certainly not out of the question.

Have at it.

[jmcecil]

Originally Posted by schwa

I just installed Reaper v2.000 to check (hello, Brad Sucks!). As far as I can tell, delete always deleted the selected item, not the area within the time selection. Ctrl+delete has always deleted the area within the time selection.

I want to be clear, this isn't about nitpicking the OP's issues! It's about trying to get a better understanding of which behaviors have changed or become more complicated.

I've posted a few complaints similar to this one. However, the complexity itself doesn't bother me. It's the issue of "expected results". Concrete example:

Rubber Band select is Left+drag in every application I own except Reaper.

Time select is either done in the time bar or is Right+drag in every other app I use that has a timeline.

It isn't that it's hard to right+drag to select. It's that it's hard to NOT left+drag because I do that in every other app I use.

Right click on a track, is Arm an option?

I will absolutely give a BIG thumbs up to having the Actions. It's tremendous that features are automatically tied to Actions as a regular part of adding functionality to Reaper. However, the mapping of basic functions, such as select, scroll, jump, jog etc.. ignores conventions that have been around forever.

Arrow keys ack..........track navigation/select anyone?

NumPad is typically the area used for transport controls, jumping to markers, jogging and timecode entry. It's the closest thing to a desk input device, so it makes sense to map it that way. In Reaper I don't remember what it was mapped to, but it had nothing to do with the transport. I had to redo it completely. Again, not a problem in isolation. Plus, I dig the customization capabilities. It's just not intuitive to control out of the box.

Modal dialogs should have died a horrible flaming death 10 years ago. Embedded, context driven configuration panels are WAAAAAAAY easier for people to use.

I want to make it clear that I love the development strategy being used by Reaper and I really like the application itself. I'm trying to contribute to make the experience better for those that don't want to spend "half the day" (purposefully exaggerated ) building macros to do something like "selected track full height, all others small".

That's enough for one go!

[Dannii]

Originally Posted by schwa

I just installed Reaper v2.000 to check (hello, Brad Sucks!). As far as I can tell, delete always deleted the selected item, not the area within the time selection. Ctrl+delete has always deleted the area within the time selection......

Well there you go... I just learned a new REAPER editing trick

[RichardM]

Originally Posted by Dannii

Well there you go... I just learned a new REAPER editing trick

Me too ... as I said in my post above, I generally split both ends and delete the offending bit. Guess I have to do a refresher and read the manual again.

[bullshark]

Originally Posted by jmcecil

Rubber Band select is Left+drag in every application I own except Reaper.

I'm sure you can see the logic behind the current setup. Since left click is used to simultaneously select and move stuff around, there's a real possibility for somebody to move stuff instead of selecting if the lasso was on the left click.

Time select is either done in the time bar or is Right+drag in every other app I use that has a timeline.

you haven't used Sony Vegas, just to name one, one which Reaper was initially modeled after, have you?

Right click on a track, is Arm an option?

No, but we're already talking about option menus being too charged, and there's already a big red button on the track for that...

About the "industry standard" thingy...well, there are none, or close to none. I've used different software in my life, and there really isn't one way for doing everything that can be considered "standard", best is to get this out of one's head. Sure if you used Cubase, or logic, or Sam or eXT etc. for a number of years, you might get into thinking that its way is the "standard" way, but, newsflash, it isn't; at least not anything beyond the basic CTRL C/V to copy/paste.

Why there are different applications for doing basically the same thing, they have different way getting to the result; you choose your poison, learn it's way, then stick to it.

[Evan]

Originally Posted by gofer

Granted the menus are long, but I was glad that I could find most stuff in the first level and names seemed very descriptively explaining what to expect from an entry.

I agree about finding stuff in the first level. But with such long menus, running Reaper on devices with low vertical resolution (e.g. netbooks) poses a problem. That's one of the drawbacks.

ps low-resolution displays aren't going away anytime soon, with smartphones and tablets being popularized

[BenK-msx]

Originally Posted by RichardM

Me too ... as I said in my post above, I generally split both ends and delete the offending bit. Guess I have to do a refresher and read the manual again.

i often do that or just split and 'slip' - i don't see how either are slower than getting a time selection spot on then deleting, or if the TS is not spot on, you'll need to slip it correct anyway,

so to split and then drag the badness away accurately seems about as simple as it gets.

it'd also take 5 seconds to reassign ctrl-delete to just one key and you're laughing.

my only beef with default reaper install is the attached docker - think i'd prefer a plain old arrange window with ctrl-m bringing up the mixer. less "WOH there whats this" for new users?

all we need is a thread with a bunch of 'reaper.ini files' with different prefs settings and descriptions of them.
users can then slap them in and along with menus have these different shaped reapers people talk of.

[Dannii]

Originally Posted by BenK-msx

i often do that or just split and 'slip' - i don't see how either are slower than getting a time selection spot on then deleting, or if the TS is not spot on, you'll need to slip it correct anyway,

so to split and then drag the badness away accurately seems about as simple as it gets......

That's what I normally do too. Still, it is good to know the ctrl-del function.

[jmcecil]

Originally Posted by bullshark

I'm sure you can see the logic behind the current setup. Since left click is used to simultaneously select and move stuff around, there's a real possibility for somebody to move stuff instead of selecting if the lasso was on the left click.

no, I don't see the logic. Move operations with left/lasso are also part of the left click paradigm.

you haven't used Sony Vegas, just to name one, one which Reaper was initially modeled after, have you?

true I haven't. So, obviously it isn't universal. But again, Left+click select is.

and there's already a big red button on the track for that...

not when you TCP is minimized to the left (which is how I have it most of the time). I'm not arguing that there are ways to do it. I actually have it mapped to Alt+R. I also changed my arrows to select the track with CTRL and Shift. I try not to use the mouse. My point is, that it would be something a person would expect to see when right clicking a track.

About the "industry standard" thingy...well, there are none,..

I agree there isn't an "industry" standard. I should have said general convention. There are ton of good interface conventions that have come out over time. They are things that cause a user to try something without thinking about it. Like most people will look for the File menu for open/close/save/save as ... It's awful when an applications chooses NOT to do it that way.

I could go through the things that the applications you listed do the SAME as well.


EDIT: I wasn't trying to nit pick. My point is simple. As Reaper gets more and more features, it will get harder and harder for people to pick it up, unless there is an obvious attempt to consistently lay out the interface. There has to be some amount of expected conventional behavior. It takes a lot of feathers to get a ton of feathers, but it is a ton once amassed. Death by a thousand paper cuts. Pick your metaphor.

[bullshark]

Originally Posted by Evan

I agree about finding stuff in the first level. But with such long menus, running Reaper on devices with low vertical resolution (e.g. netbooks) poses a problem. That's one of the drawbacks.

ps low-resolution displays aren't going away anytime soon, with smartphones and tablets being popularized

Why I always thought that the Maya, and recent CAD programs, way to go, where the right click extend radially around the cursor, like so:



was a cool, useful and intelligent way to go about it. I believe I have suggested it a few years back, but it went on deaf ears for some reasons.

[BenK-msx]

danni, oh yes, for large deletes particulary.
i was just highlighting how easy it can be to edit currently without ranges or key modifiers etc.

[timlloyd]

Originally Posted by Lawrence

So I'm actually not the only one who sees that?

Don't worry, you're not. I'm disappointed by the elitism implied by a few posts in this thread. I'm encouraged by the constructive ones though The split+slip method is great, but isn't appropriate if you want to edit without affecting the timing of the audio.

What I use is "SWS: Remove items/tracks/env, obeying time sel" mapped to backspace. That covers all scenarios, if there is no time-selection then it deletes the whole selected item.

[tspring]

Originally Posted by Tedwood

Modes was an idea suggested some time ago from Spike Mullins I believe. His idea was to have different modes for different tasks, such as Tracking, Editing, Mixing and Mastering IIRC.

I added my own thoughts to suggest REAPER would have three sets of user levels like some HTML editors I have used - i.e.

Minimal:
As Default. All the basic stuff, which would not change unless it has to from version to version

Full:
Everything - pretty much as it is now.

Custom:
This one could start as Full, or Minimal, and you add or subtract prefs and menus to taste, and save them. Possibly you could have more than one "Custom mode" which would then realise Spikes dream of having a set of modes for different tasks.

Maybe this sounds complicated but it's not, because you can always switch to Minimal or Full as desired

At any time you could switch between these modes as your workflow demanded via a button on the tool bar

I like these ideas too. Perhaps the term should be "menu display modes" if all we are talking about is filtering subsets of items to be displayed in the menus. Spike's and your concepts are not mutually exclusive. Display modes could be Basic, Full, Tracking, Editing, Mixing and Mastering, and Custom.

T