Old 02-02-2009, 08:47 PM   #1
Dstruct
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Default Seek issue (FIXED)

Load this project: seek-issue.rar (2.20 MB)


-> playback (from beginning of time selection)

It's not meant to "null out" completely. I just wanted to hear the differences between the original 48kHz 32bit float and the 44.1kHz 16bit dithered file.


So just watch the output levels on the master while playback.

=> Got it? Null out to about -67dB here. Fine.


-> now place the cursor somewhere else on the items while playback or start playback from a different position (not from the beginning of the items)

=> Now the files don't "null out" that good anymore. About 20dB to 30dB increase on the master output if playback isn't started from the beginning of the items. I'm getting values around -26dB then.


Only happens with items with different samplerates in the project. If all items have the same samplerate it doesn't happen.



Tracker: http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=138


FIXED (5.12)

Last edited by Dstruct; 01-25-2016 at 07:39 AM.
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Old 02-03-2009, 01:42 AM   #2
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Sorry that I do not have the chance right now to check your project file.

But: Is it a sort of tiny delay between the tracks. Different "automatic" delay compensation?

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Old 02-03-2009, 04:31 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stupeT View Post
But: Is it a sort of tiny delay between the tracks. Different "automatic" delay compensation?
Obviously. Depending on where you start playback you get different results. But there are no plugins in this project (so nothing to compensate).


FIXED (5.12)

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Old 02-03-2009, 09:23 AM   #4
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Partially confirmed with the files you provided:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct View Post
-> set the cursor in front of the items and start playback

=> doesn't null out properly (-52.7dB)!?
Not quite right: If I place the cursor in front of both items, they null. Only if the cursor is in front of the top item, still in the silence range of the second track's item, it doesn't null properly. If I trim the second track's item to the size of the first one, it always nulls properly.

The files you provided are somewhat odd: Windows can't determine their file properties on r-click ("not available"). Even more odd, the file viewer in Total Commander sometimes plays them (meaning it recognizes a format it can play->16Bit) and sometimes not, showing only the file content in text view mode (meaning it sees it as non-16bit WAV).

However, due to these oddities I tried to reproduce this behavior with my own test project without success. I have a source file with silence at the start and end of the item and a shorter rendered one and they null perfectly (-inf) apart from a -80dB blip at the start, no matter where the playback starts.

https://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/111640/NullTest.zip
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Old 02-03-2009, 10:31 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steindork View Post
Partially confirmed with the files you provided:



Not quite right: If I place the cursor in front of both items, they null. Only if the cursor is in front of the top item, still in the silence range of the second track's item, it doesn't null properly.
Ok, that's correct.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steindork View Post
If I trim the second track's item to the size of the first one, it always nulls properly.
Weird, isn't it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steindork View Post
The files you provided are somewhat odd: Windows can't determine their file properties on r-click ("not available").
The files are not odd. Both are created by Reaper. 32bit floating point at 48000Hz.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steindork View Post
Even more odd, the file viewer in Total Commander sometimes plays them (meaning it recognizes a format it can play->16Bit) and sometimes not, showing only the file content in text view mode (meaning it sees it as non-16bit WAV).
The MCI player is odd. Sometimes it doesn't play the 32bit floating point format. I know this behaviour.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Steindork View Post
However, due to these oddities I tried to reproduce this behavior with my own test project without success. I have a source file with silence at the start and end of the item and a shorter rendered one and they null perfectly (-inf) apart from a -80dB blip at the start, no matter where the playback starts.

https://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/111640/NullTest.zip
Yeah, but as you can see you're not using the same files. Yours are 24bit with the first item not looped. I guess the bug lies in the looped item in my project.

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Old 02-03-2009, 10:58 AM   #6
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maybe they are not the same?



but why it should show this strange behavior cause of changing the startpoint... magic.

but: confirmed.
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Old 02-03-2009, 11:03 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kainer View Post
maybe they are not the same?
Of course they are not the same. The looped one is the original. The second item is the original looped-back over a digital connection. They null out to -129dB. But not always.

Why is the result of the phase inversion different depending on the playback start position? Makes zero sense. Bug.

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Old 02-03-2009, 11:31 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct View Post
Weird, isn't it?
Indeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct View Post
The files are not odd. Both are created by Reaper. 32bit floating point at 48000Hz.
The MCI player is odd. Sometimes it doesn't play the 32bit floating point format. I know this behaviour.
Ah oopsie, didn't know that. I never stumbled upon this until now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct View Post
Yeah, but as you can see you're not using the same files. Yours are 24bit with the first item not looped. I guess the bug lies in the looped item in my project.
Yeah I only created a test tone audio item and rendered->reimported the file. I couldn't see that you rendered the first file from a short loop (did you?) and I just repeated the whole shebang with 32bit float files - same non-buggy result, so it probably has to do with the loop. I just don't understand why the file you rendered from that loop should be different from any other rendered file... or where did I lose you? What have I to do to recreate the bug here?

Edit: Ah I see you looped that back from a digital connection. But even if that introduced jitter or something, I still don't understand how a render from it could be depending on playback start position. But I guess that's stuff I don't have to understand anyway. I can confirm that behavior FWIW.
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Old 02-03-2009, 09:07 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steindork View Post
I still don't understand how a render from it could be depending on playback start position. But I guess that's stuff I don't have to understand anyway. I can confirm that behavior FWIW.
Thanks! I also don't get it

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Old 02-03-2009, 10:21 PM   #10
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Got it, sample-position rounding issue when seeking.. it would sometimes be 1 sample off.. will see about getting a fix into the next builds, but it'll need a bunch of testing to make sure that it doesn't break anything else...
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Old 02-03-2009, 10:32 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
Got it, sample-position rounding issue when seeking.. it would sometimes be 1 sample off.. will see about getting a fix into the next builds, but it'll need a bunch of testing to make sure that it doesn't break anything else...
Ok, thanks for the fast response!

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Old 02-09-2009, 03:34 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
Got it, sample-position rounding issue when seeking.. it would sometimes be 1 sample off.. will see about getting a fix into the next builds, but it'll need a bunch of testing to make sure that it doesn't break anything else...
Was
Quote:
Fixed some PCM source seek rounding errors
from 3.alpha2 meant to solve this? If so -> it doesn't solve it.

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Old 03-13-2009, 08:06 PM   #13
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Mmh, obviously I was wrong. This issue isn't fixed yet


Justin, I've sent you a link to a project via PN. Hope this helps.
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Old 03-23-2009, 03:30 PM   #14
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Quote:
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Justin, I've sent you a link to a project via PN. Hope this helps.
Did you receive my PM Justin?
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Old 04-04-2009, 09:59 AM   #15
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Not fixed in 3.beta1 ...
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Old 04-17-2009, 02:02 PM   #16
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Complicated? Still there in 3.beta3
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Old 05-18-2009, 01:44 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
Got it, sample-position rounding issue when seeking.. it would sometimes be 1 sample off.. will see about getting a fix into the next builds, but it'll need a bunch of testing to make sure that it doesn't break anything else...
Any timeframe for the fix?
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Old 05-22-2009, 11:57 PM   #18
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i hope it would solve all the other "sample rounding" issues in Reaper

(working with CUE'd Media shows it perfectly)
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Old 07-23-2009, 07:29 AM   #19
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I'm having similar problems too..

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...d=1#post348483

hope we can get it fixed without losing anything..
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Old 07-25-2009, 11:34 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
Got it, sample-position rounding issue when seeking.. it would sometimes be 1 sample off.. will see about getting a fix into the next builds, but it'll need a bunch of testing to make sure that it doesn't break anything else...
I found that that is indeed the case that the items (but not all) are of by one sample, when copying a whole bunch of items.

any news on this Dev team?

do any of the real time sample converters take care of this issue as I have been using "good 64 point".

link to the other thread.

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...448#post349448
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Old 12-04-2009, 10:29 AM   #21
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Put into tracker (private issue): http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=138


Any news on this?
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Old 12-04-2009, 12:22 PM   #22
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Still an issue here for me (as a perfectionist)
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Old 12-04-2009, 12:24 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
Still an issue here for me (as a perfectionist)

haha, its just an OCD.
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Old 05-12-2010, 02:04 AM   #24
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Initial post updated with new smaller example project. Not fixed yet in 3.52pre3 ...
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Old 05-12-2010, 02:23 AM   #25
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That's strange I did try some things in the new release and it seemed fine now but will try your project when I get time.

OCD part 2!!
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Old 05-12-2010, 02:28 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
That's strange I did try some things in the new release and it seemed fine now but will try your project when I get time.
It only happens if you have items with different samplerates in your project. If all items have the same samplerate it doesn't happen.
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Old 01-25-2016, 07:32 AM   #27
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Looks like this got fixed.

FIXED (5.12)
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