MIDI output to external synth is monitoring random notes

[Scaredsim]

Hi everyone, complete newbie here.

I'm encountering a problem when trying to play on a MIDI keyboard and sending it to an external synth: when I play on the keyboard, there's sound coming from the external synth but it just plays (seemingly) random notes.

Here's a video of the issue: https://youtu.be/SJUFL5VkwIM

Explanations: in the video I start with a new project and actually I'm recording hitting the exact same note on the keyboard. The recording is accurate, aswell as when I playback without monitoring, but when monitoring is ON it's a mess. You can also note that the notes are hanging even when I release the keys. I'm not using any sustain pedal, arpeggiator or anything. Also, I don't have this problem when using VST instruments.

I've no idea what I'm doing wrong, I've tested with several MIDI cables, various configurations of input and ouput synths, on my desktop computer and on my laptop... it always does that same thing. However I could test it on another computer that has Cubase on it and it works as expected, so definitely not a hardware issue.

Looked for it all day but couldn't find anything, so any help would be greatly appreciated! Thank you in advance.

[snafu]

From what I see in the video I can see no error on your behalf. So, my best guess at the moment would be that somewhere in your midi settings somethin is not right.


Could you provide a little insight in your midi settings. Maybe a screenshot?

[Scaredsim]

Sure, here are the screenshots.

In this case it's the same MIDI cable for in and out, but I also tried with one cable for in and another for out. I also tried enabling "input for control messages" and ticking/unticking some other things but without any success.

[b2001]

How are you monitoring?

If you plug headphones into the synth phones out do you get the same things?

Off hand, i don’t see anything wrong with what you have done in reaper. Wondering if there is an issue with the synth and its not correctly set up to receive external midi?

Maybe you could do a reaper portable install and repeat this experiment. If it works correctly, compare the portable install ini files to your production ini files.

[Scaredsim]

This is exactly what I do, I use headphones in the synth phones out. I did this with a Korg m50 and with a EWI3020m module (with breath data sent to it), same result for both. I'll give a try with a portable install.

[b2001]

Same results with two external devices; yes, seems like its not them…

Do you get the same results if you insert midi notes into the midi editor on that track?

Maybe use something like reacontrolmidi to inspect the ingoing and outgoing midi data to reaper…

[snafu]

Originally Posted by Scaredsim

Sure, here are the screenshots.

In this case it's the same MIDI cable for in and out, but I also tried with one cable for in and another for out. I also tried enabling "input for control messages" and ticking/unticking some other things but without any success.

OK, nothing out of the ordinary there. So, just to re-iterate: you have your midi keyboard, which is the input device, right?
But there must be some other device that distributes your midi signals out of the digital realm, and into your external gear. What device is this?

[Scaredsim]

Thank you guys.

Originally Posted by snafu

OK, nothing out of the ordinary there. So, just to re-iterate: you have your midi keyboard, which is the input device, right?

Yes, a digital piano (Yamaha P70) sending and a Korg m50 receiving. Or, as an alternative configuration, the Korg m50 sending and the EWI3020m receiving. Same result for both configurations (of course I only plug what I need when testing).

Originally Posted by snafu

But there must be some other device that distributes your midi signals out of the digital realm, and into your external gear. What device is this?

I swear there isn't anything other than one instrument sending to Reaper which sends to the other instrument.

Originally Posted by b2001

Maybe you could do a reaper portable install and repeat this experiment. If it works correctly, compare the portable install ini files to your production ini files.

So I installed the portable version and once again, I unfortunately get the same result.

I recorded another (boring but interesting) video with a few timestamps, please check it out: https://youtu.be/gRz68P7UZ6o


For quick explanations about what happens in the video:

• No surprise, inserting midi notes in the piano roll works when the track is not armed. As soon as it is armed, the problem comes back.
• Then I changed the sustained legato synth lead to a polyphonic bell sound, and started playing at lower velocities. Here we can hear things a bit more clearly: when I hit a key, it seems that it plays a note (always the same) AND another whose pitch varies according to velocity. If I keep the finger pressed on the key, it sounds like the note is repeated endlessly very quickly.
• Finally, I added ReaControlMIDI and this is where it gets really weird. I don't know much about MIDI besides basic stuff, but it seems incredible to me: simply adding ReaControlMIDI (with no tweak at all) seems to "solve" the problem. When it is enabled, it works fine, when it is disabled, it sounds like before. I don't think the log shows anything strange.

At least it's nice to know that quick and dirty solution, but I have on idea why I have to do that.

[snafu]

Originally Posted by Scaredsim

Thank you guys.

• Finally, I added ReaControlMIDI and this is where it gets really weird. I don't know much about MIDI besides basic stuff, but it seems incredible to me: simply adding ReaControlMIDI (with no tweak at all) seems to "solve" the problem. When it is enabled, it works fine, when it is disabled, it sounds like before. I don't think the log shows anything strange..

It still is a wild guess, but if it applies, it would explain the issues:
Any chance, you have your external gear daysy-chained? Like your primary device is hooked up per USB to the computer, whilst the other devices are hooked to the primary device?

Well, if that's the case, I guess the answer is quite simple: the notes are "lost in translation". If the internal mapping of the devices is not exactly the same, different devices may interpret the same midi inputs differently. So, I think, ReaControlMIDI acts as a universal unifier in this case, so all devices are on the same page. As I said: a wild guess....



As for what I meant earlier is: how do your midi data leave the digital dominion? I mean, yes, per USB, but that's set only to one device. In my case, I use a digital console with a dedicated MIDI in, out and thru. These are connected to a midi patchbay actually, so the data travels "unchanged" along the wires...


Glad you found a brute force solution though...
best regards
snafu

[Scaredsim]

Originally Posted by snafu

It still is a wild guess, but if it applies, it would explain the issues:
Any chance, you have your external gear daysy-chained? Like your primary device is hooked up per USB to the computer, whilst the other devices are hooked to the primary device?

In my last demo, my setup was like this (same MIDI-USB cable):


However I initially tried with two cables like this:


But again, any of them worked fine with Cubase...

Originally Posted by snafu

As for what I meant earlier is: how do your midi data leave the digital dominion? I mean, yes, per USB, but that's set only to one device. In my case, I use a digital console with a dedicated MIDI in, out and thru. These are connected to a midi patchbay actually, so the data travels "unchanged" along the wires...

Ah sorry, this is where my MIDI knowledge falls short, I don't understand much of what you're talking about. ;_; Actually my configuration is as simple as shown above!

[b2001]

So i am confused.

Your midi devices pic shows one input and output midi device. I missed this responding the first time.

I assume if you don’t play the yamaha but create midi notes in the editor and play, same results?

Remove the yamaha keyboard. Create midi notes in the midi editor and send to the korg. Does it play correctly?

Go back to the original setup of a separate dedicated usb cable/port for the yamaha and korg and set them up as separate midi devices. Work correctly?

[Wallaby]

In any case of cabling and interface, I recommend to use two different Midi channels for two different instruments.
In Reaper one Midi track is output on Midi channel 1 and the digital piano is set to Midi channel 1.
The second Midi track is output on Midi channel 2 and the Korg is set to Midi channel 2.
Each instrument occupies its own channel and receives Midi notes from its own track from Reaper.

[Scaredsim]

Originally Posted by Wallaby

In any case of cabling and interface, I recommend to use two different Midi channels for two different instruments.
In Reaper one Midi track is output on Midi channel 1 and the digital piano is set to Midi channel 1.
The second Midi track is output on Midi channel 2 and the Korg is set to Midi channel 2.
Each instrument occupies its own channel and receives Midi notes from its own track from Reaper.

I actually never used MIDI channels (other than All/Any) as this as always been obscure to me. That was the occasion to dig a bit into it. I managed to have each instrument on it's own channel and... problem solved! Even just changing from "All channels" to "Channel 1" on the input fixed it, even with both instruments on channel 1. Thank you for the tip!

Originally Posted by b2001

I assume if you don’t play the yamaha but create midi notes in the editor and play, same results?

Yes, did you watch the second video I posted on the september 13th?

Originally Posted by b2001

Remove the yamaha keyboard. Create midi notes in the midi editor and send to the korg. Does it play correctly?

Go back to the original setup of a separate dedicated usb cable/port for the yamaha and korg and set them up as separate midi devices. Work correctly?

Didn't try it, but as I said above changing channels fixed the issue so I'll keep with that, although this phenomenon is intriguing. Thanks for the help anyway.