Announcing ReaLearn: Sophisticated MIDI/MCU/OSC learn for REAPER

[foxAsteria]

Originally Posted by helgoboss

Genuine question: Any idea of what I could do to effectively make users more aware of the fact that ReaLearn can (and should) be instantiated multiple times?

Write a big note in the main window or...

How about (nameable) tabbed instances within the same window? It's not obvious or particularly common to use multiple instances of a plugin (I still have this nagging feeling they interfere with each other somehow...)

And others like me probably feel some resistance to using multiple instances, as it makes things more cluttered (e.g. I've got 9 instances in my monitoring chain, in addition to the audio plugins).

Putting ReaLearn on the monitoring chain is also not something I ever considered in 5 years of using ReaLearn. Granted, it's a superb way of doing things, but I only became aware of that possibility after watching your intro vid. Maybe some randomized tips could cycle in the interface to help users along?

Do you have plans to refine the interface at all? I mean it's all well and functional, but to any would-be user, it's going to be very overwhelming at first simply due to all the text and hidden options. I mean if you really want it to be user friendly at all you might ought to consider it.

I know that's probably a lot of tedious work and all so don't want to encourage you to take time away from more important features but it's not likely to be as widely used otherwise, I'd suppose.


Btw I'd be happy to test those new "dynamic" modes, but I haven't a clue what they do I'm afraid.


Also, Idk if it's a bug or what yet, but soloing my VCA master tracks has stopped working for some reason. The tracks get soloed OK, but none of the ones they should control. Soloing them now results in silence.

[helgoboss]

Originally Posted by earlabs

I am a visual thinker, so I find the large amounts of text too much. Perhaps a step-by-step explainer would help. With sort of schematics. I can help you work something out.

Would love contribution of this kind!

Originally Posted by foxAsteria

Write a big note in the main window or...

Maybe a small one

Originally Posted by foxAsteria

How about (nameable) tabbed instances within the same window? It's not obvious or particularly common to use multiple instances of a plugin (I still have this nagging feeling they interfere with each other somehow...)

Really? I use multiple instances of VST instruments all the time and I know I'm by far not the only one. This is the first time I hear that it's not particularly common to open multiple instances of a VST plug-in, seriously. I somehow can understand if it's something like NI Kontakt which is a beast of an instrument. But most plug-ins out there are lightweight (Cockos plug-ins for sure) which makes multiple instantiation not a problem at all.

Therefore I think any general hesitation to use multiple VST instances should be "treated" with clarification rather than with offering a tabbed interface and thereby even nourishing that hesitation. A big shoutout to all users who are afraid of multiple instances: Most VST plug-ins are totally meant to be instantiated multiple times! And ReaLearn is not different.

Originally Posted by foxAsteria

And others like me probably feel some resistance to using multiple instances, as it makes things more cluttered (e.g. I've got 9 instances in my monitoring chain, in addition to the audio plugins).

Is this really an issue? You can name them in nice ways. You can hide the track or the monitoring FX if you want, etc.

Originally Posted by foxAsteria

Putting ReaLearn on the monitoring chain is also not something I ever considered in 5 years of using ReaLearn. Granted, it's a superb way of doing things, but I only became aware of that possibility after watching your intro vid. Maybe some randomized tips could cycle in the interface to help users along?

Yeah, something along these lines I had in mind when putting the question

Originally Posted by foxAsteria

Do you have plans to refine the interface at all? I mean it's all well and functional, but to any would-be user, it's going to be very overwhelming at first simply due to all the text and hidden options. I mean if you really want it to be user friendly at all you might ought to consider it.

I know that's probably a lot of tedious work and all so don't want to encourage you to take time away from more important features but it's not likely to be as widely used otherwise, I'd suppose.

Depends on what you mean by "refine". In small ways, yes! Concerning the perceived complexity on first sight, there's a GitHub issue now: https://github.com/helgoboss/realearn/issues/233. If someone has good ideas how exactly to improve on this situation (while keeping in mind that a complete UI overhaul is just not realistic for the time being), this is the right place to contribute.

In big ways, no ... unless someone gives me lots of $$$ to do it. Creating ReaLearn is a huge effort and there's nothing in it for me except occasional donations (big thanks to everyone who donated!), so I absolutely need to make trade-offs here and there. And the GUI is the best candidate for making trade-offs.

That said, is the GUI really that user-unfriendly? I mean yes, it's pretty boring and just resembles the operating system look, all grey on Windows. No modern design at all. But there *is* a GUI and it's functional - and that was my main priority. I think it fits to ReaLearn's character of being a productivity tool.

At some point I needed to ask myself: Do I want this thing to score with a fancy UI that would even satisfy Garageband users or do I want to create something that rewards users that are capable of looking beyond a grey facade by letting them achieve great things that cannot easily be done with anything else? Impossible to have both under my circumstances. The former was not a serious option ... so much bad software with shiny GUIs out there. So I decided for the latter, also because this is what I would use myself.

Another thing to point out: It's built using the same UI technology that REAPER itself is built on, to not unnecessarily waste resources. That complicates things a lot for me but I hope it's worth it. And fortunately, there are parts of ReaLearn which look modern: The Companion App.

**EDIT:** Oh, and I forgot: I still want to make these video tutorials, which I think would help a lot. This and the user guide and the forum support, that's all that I personally can offer to ease the initial difficulties.

Originally Posted by foxAsteria

Btw I'd be happy to test those new "dynamic" modes, but I haven't a clue what they do I'm afraid.

Thanks. I do hope that the users who asked for it will chime in at some point.

Small explanation: It lets you use ReaLearn's parameters to dynamically change which track/FX/param/send a ReaLearn mapping controls. It's a "pro" kind of feature though, hence taking a look into the user guide is unavoidable to understand how the feature is meant to be used (search for "<Dynamic>").

[grandfougue]

Originally Posted by PdxLuke

Hi,

I'm blind and use Reaper on Windows 10 with the free NVDA screen reader by NVAccess. All of Reaper's standard VST plugins (ReaDelay, ReaPitch, ReaMidi etc) work perfectly with keyboard navigation, announcing each control/value as I press tab or shift+tab to move about the GUI. The same isn't true for ReaLearn. Tab skips right over the GUI. I can use special NVDA key sequences to dig into the GUI but it's tricky and provides incomplete access. Is there any way you could make the ReaLearn GUI responsive to screen readers? I'm not exactly sure what that entails from a technical perspective, but perhaps you as the developer have control over how the GUI handles focus, keyboard input and tab order? Might be good to start by finding out how the native Reaper VST plugins provide screen reader support. Would be greatly appreciated! If I could more easily access this plugin, it seems like it would solve multiple MIDI learn issues that the stock MIDI learn functionality doesn't provide. Thanks!

Hello i m intersted to for your recuest have you news of your request please ?

[earlabs]

I think that with a bit more design the manual could be much better. I'll write something up on Dropbox paper or office 365 so we can write together. Just email me your email address.

[helgoboss]

Originally Posted by grandfougue

Hello i m intersted to for your recuest have you news of your request please ?

I have improved tab order at some point, at least for the mapping panel. Using tab for the main plugin window somehow doesn't work, I think because REAPER eats the key presses. You can check how it works for you and let me know.

Originally Posted by earlabs

I think that with a bit more design the manual could be much better. I'll write something up on Dropbox paper or office 365 so we can write together. Just email me your email address.

Thanks, improving the manual would be awesome. Are you familiar with Markdown? My automated documentation pipeline (website, HTML generation, PDF generation) is based on that so it would be good if it stays that way. Are you thinking of adding schematic images mainly? Then the best way of exchange would be to SVGs or PNGs.

UPDATE: Or we use Office 365 or whatever you prefer, hack something together (on a one-time basis or occasionally) and then I will integrate it into the Markdown file manually.

[earlabs]

I just really dived into the online manual. In general I think there is too much text and you should discern between actual tasks (add mapping group, add mapping, edit mapping, etc.) and more elaborate perspectives on the potential of the software. The first should be really punctual, bullet-wise. And following the steps of a first time user. Sort of like a quick start guide.

The more philosophical elaborations I understand from a developer's position but they're in the way of a (first time) user.

Also a bulleted description of the layout of the header and of the knobs on the interface, with a link to a more detailed explanation. Same goes for the edit screen.

[Regisfofo]

Hi Helgoboss
Thank you very much for your last updates!

I've been trying to build my set up with it and there are some things I don't understand :
I'm trying to use two increment/decrement midi notes to select a unique track from a particular folder.
I Have a folder with realearn and 10 nested tracks
here is my realearn preset :

{
  "version": "2.8.0-pre2",
  "id": "JtF9g3L2",
  "controlDeviceId": "19",
  "defaultGroup": {},
  "mappings": [
    {
      "id": "6ee5a9ed-9c21-4523-8515-41626c3b7365",
      "name": "2",
      "source": {
        "type": 1,
        "channel": 0,
        "number": 48,
        "isRegistered": false,
        "is14Bit": false,
        "oscArgIndex": 0
      },
      "mode": {
        "type": 1,
        "maxTargetValue": 0.1,
        "reverseIsEnabled": true,
        "outOfRangeBehavior": "ignore"
      },
      "target": {
        "fxAnchor": "id",
        "fxGUID": "683F555C-57B9-46BD-8107-67A8BDF31BBB",
        "useProject": true,
        "moveView": true,
        "seekPlay": true
      }
    },
    {
      "id": "e34c3c8a-0634-4448-9cc7-93f4090a8027",
      "name": "Copy of 2",
      "source": {
        "type": 1,
        "channel": 0,
        "number": 50,
        "isRegistered": false,
        "is14Bit": false,
        "oscArgIndex": 0
      },
      "mode": {
        "type": 1,
        "maxTargetValue": 0.1,
        "outOfRangeBehavior": "ignore"
      },
      "target": {
        "fxAnchor": "id",
        "fxGUID": "683F555C-57B9-46BD-8107-67A8BDF31BBB",
        "useProject": true,
        "moveView": true,
        "seekPlay": true
      }
    },
    {
      "id": "926ec770-e231-4dd9-83eb-2f50a206766c",
      "name": "2",
      "source": {
        "type": 2,
        "isRegistered": false,
        "is14Bit": false,
        "oscArgIndex": 0
      },
      "mode": {},
      "target": {
        "type": 6,
        "trackExpression": "floor(1+p1*100)",
        "fxAnchor": "id",
        "trackExclusivity": 2,
        "useProject": true,
        "moveView": true,
        "seekPlay": true
      }
    }
  ],
  "parameters": {
    "0": {
      "value": 0.02
    }
  }
  }

The strange thing is that when I switch from going up to going down, It behave like it didn't switch for one more press, then start to behave correctly.
It had done me a similar strange behavior when learning p1 with a cc knob on my xtouch mini.
Concerning the <Dynamic> track index, Is there a way to access own realearn's instance track index in the expression box ? So we could easily limit the concerned tracks to 'after this realearn track' ?

Would it be possible to 'unmute' exclusively within folder too ? That would allow to save cpu.

I wish I had more time to experiment with all that and I hope my english is clear enough too!
By the way, I made a controller preset from my ASM hydrasynth, maybe it could save someone some time to someone so here it is :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kv39wocw2z...ynth.json?dl=0

[helgoboss]

Originally Posted by Regisfofo

Hi Helgoboss
Thank you very much for your last updates!

I've been trying to build my set up with it and there are some things I don't understand :
I'm trying to use two increment/decrement midi notes to select a unique track from a particular folder.
I Have a folder with realearn and 10 nested tracks
here is my realearn preset :

The strange thing is that when I switch from going up to going down, It behave like it didn't switch for one more press, then start to behave correctly.

You came up with a quite exotic use for the new feature, I like it Your idea/preset is relying on an assumption: That the internal parameter change (caused by the two ReaLearn parameter change mappings 1 and 2) is "digested" BEFORE actually selecting/unselecting the track (mapping 3). That's unfortunately not the case, you can't rely on that. Parameter changes are processed a tiny bit later than you would actually think, that's unavoidable. That's why you get this weird behavior.

I already wanted to tell you "Sorry, you can't do it that way!" BUT: Destiny wants it that 2.8.2 introduced another feature which makes your idea actually work You just need to set the mapping 3 (the one with the <Dynamic> expression) to "Fire: After timeout" and set the Timeout to a very small value, at least 1 ms. By doing that, you delay the execution of the track selection and give the parameter change enough time to "arrive".

But I can tell you, this is a proper hack Why don't you use the "Selected track" target? It's made exactly for your use case. Damn, I think I have to improve the target naming. Just create 2 incremental buttons, one for your "previous" and one for your "next" button.

Originally Posted by Regisfofo

Concerning the <Dynamic> track index, Is there a way to access own realearn's instance track index in the expression box ? So we could easily limit the concerned tracks to 'after this realearn track' ?

I could do that. Not sure if that's a good idea though. Do you still need that?

Originally Posted by Regisfofo

Would it be possible to 'unmute' exclusively within folder too ? That would allow to save cpu.

Yes. Just set Target Min/Max to 0 ("Off").

Originally Posted by Regisfofo

I wish I had more time to experiment with all that and I hope my english is clear enough too!
By the way, I made a controller preset from my ASM hydrasynth, maybe it could save someone some time to someone so here it is :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kv39wocw2z...ynth.json?dl=0

Cool, I will have a look.

[foxAsteria]

Any possibility for ReaLearn to monitor held MIDI notes? I frequently have one or more droning notes and it would be helpful to know what they are with MIDI feedback on a note grid.

Until now I've never found a way to detect sustained notes after the fact if I didn't happen to already capture the note-on messages or using a retro-record script.

[earlabs]

Originally Posted by earlabs

I just really dived into the online manual. In general I think there is too much text and you should discern between actual tasks (add mapping group, add mapping, edit mapping, etc.) and more elaborate perspectives on the potential of the software. The first should be really punctual, bullet-wise. And following the steps of a first time user. Sort of like a quick start guide.

The more philosophical elaborations I understand from a developer's position but they're in the way of a (first time) user.

Also a bulleted description of the layout of the header and of the knobs on the interface, with a link to a more detailed explanation. Same goes for the edit screen.

I will definitely try and make a proposal. But this week and the next are too busy with family stuff. Expect something by the end of the month.

Tried to hook my x-touch one to realearn (or vice versa ) but that was a mess. You think it is possible?

[helgoboss]

Originally Posted by Regisfofo

By the way, I made a controller preset from my ASM hydrasynth, maybe it could save someone some time to someone so here it is :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kv39wocw2z...ynth.json?dl=0

Would it be okay for you if I add this to the ReaPack repository? Your controller preset looks nice and clean.

Originally Posted by foxAsteria

Any possibility for ReaLearn to monitor held MIDI notes? I frequently have one or more droning notes and it would be helpful to know what they are with MIDI feedback on a note grid.

Until now I've never found a way to detect sustained notes after the fact if I didn't happen to already capture the note-on messages or using a retro-record script.

Sounds like the perfect job for a small JS FX. Why ReaLearn?

Originally Posted by earlabs

I will definitely try and make a proposal. But this week and the next are too busy with family stuff. Expect something by the end of the month.

Okay!

Originally Posted by earlabs

Tried to hook my x-touch one to realearn (or vice versa ) but that was a mess. You think it is possible?

I never tried that controller but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be possible. As long as it's a MIDI device, it works with ReaLearn. X-Touch Compact works completely, I would assume the same for X-Touch One.

If you tell me more about what you mean by "mess", maybe I can help you. The first challenge with control-surface-like devices like this one is usually to figure out the best mode of operation. E.g. if it has something like a Mackie mode, you could try it with the "Mackie Control" controller preset and it should just work. (To avoid any confusion: "Just work" in ReaLearn context means that all control elements are usable as sources, it doesn't mean that they actually do something.)


If that's not enough because maybe some controls are not intended for Mackie mode, you need to switch it to some MIDI mode and create your own controller preset (see "Controller mappings" section in the manual).

[earlabs]

Originally Posted by helgoboss

Okay!



I never tried that controller but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be possible. As long as it's a MIDI device, it works with ReaLearn. X-Touch Compact works completely, I would assume the same for X-Touch One.

If you tell me more about what you mean by "mess", maybe I can help you. The first challenge with control-surface-like devices like this one is usually to figure out the best mode of operation. E.g. if it has something like a Mackie mode, you could try it with the "Mackie Control" controller preset and it should just work. (To avoid any confusion: "Just work" in ReaLearn context means that all control elements are usable as sources, it doesn't mean that they actually do something.)


If that's not enough because maybe some controls are not intended for Mackie mode, you need to switch it to some MIDI mode and create your own controller preset (see "Controller mappings" section in the manual).

Okay, first I needed to figure out how to add the preset. CHECK

Then I needed to realize that thát is where the setting 'controller mappings' are for! CHECK
I used the "x-touch compact"

Then I fiddled around with the question whether or not I needed to add or remove the x-touch one from my external devices and in midi-devices. NO CHECK
I couldn't find the right combination of settings.

Then I needed to find out what default setting I should use on my x-touch one itself MC standard, or HUI. NO CHECK

Didn't have much time this morning so needed to give up, but these were the issues I was working on.
The provisional result was that the controller didn't respond at all (until I went back to my original setup without Realearn. I can work with this but there are a few buttons that I would want to have different functions. So that's why I hope Realearn can fill these gaps.

More later.

[helgoboss]

Originally Posted by earlabs

Okay, first I needed to figure out how to add the preset. CHECK

Then I needed to realize that thát is where the setting 'controller mappings' are for! CHECK
I used the "x-touch compact"

That might work not at all because it's for another controller. Either put X-Touch One into MC mode and use the "Mackie Control" controller preset or put it into MIDI mode and use "Learn many" to learn its control elements.

Originally Posted by earlabs

Then I fiddled around with the question whether or not I needed to add or remove the x-touch one from my external devices and in midi-devices. NO CHECK

I couldn't find the right combination of settings.

You need "Enable input from this device" and "Enable output to this device" in the REAPER preferences. Don't add a control surface. That's mentioned in the user guide but should probably be a more prominent info, so I guess that's one candidate for your doc improvements.

Originally Posted by earlabs

Then I needed to find out what default setting I should use on my x-touch one itself MC standard, or HUI. NO CHECK

MC or MIDI. My guess is that the X-Touch One is similar to the X-Touch Compact, so I highly recommend reading the appropriate section in the user guide.

Originally Posted by earlabs

Didn't have much time this morning so needed to give up, but these were the issues I was working on.
The provisional result was that the controller didn't respond at all (until I went back to my original setup without Realearn. I can work with this but there are a few buttons that I would want to have different functions. So that's why I hope Realearn can fill these gaps.

More later.

There's no controller preset and no user guide entry for the "X-Touch One" yet, so you are a kind of pioneer here and the initial effort is yours. Once you are finished, it would be great if you could contribute the resulting controller preset (if you have success with it, but I'm sure you will, just needs a bit of patience). If you do that, the X-Touch One will work out of the box for anyone who wants to use it with ReaLearn in the future. It's what I have been doing with many controllers so far but I feel a bit bad already ordering controllers and sending them back again

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by helgoboss

MC or MIDI. My guess is that the X-Touch One is similar to the X-Touch Compact,

I doubt this. The Compact (which I do have) provides a "native" (standard Midi) and an "MC" (Mackie) mode, while the "One" seems to have an "MC" and a "HUI" mode.

Hopefully the "One" (and some others) feature more than 7 Bit resolution with the faders in MC mode - while the "Compact" only provides 7 bits, even in MC mode, in spite of the protocol allowing for higher resolution.

-Michael

[earlabs]

Originally Posted by mschnell

I doubt this. The Compact (which I do have) provides a "native" (standard Midi) and an "MC" (Mackie) mode, while the "One" seems to have an "MC" and a "HUI" mode.

Hopefully the "One" (and some others) feature more than 7 Bit resolution with the faders in MC mode - while the "Compact" only provides 7 bits, even in MC mode, in spite of the protocol allowing for higher resolution.

-Michael

I am planning on selling the One anyway. For something more suitable. Is the compact any good? I mean, with the bad (read: aweful) rep of Behringer? Also eyeing the Icon Platform Nano Air......

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by earlabs

Is the compact any good? I mean, with the bad (read: aweful) rep of Behringer?

For me the "compact" is great. But I don't use it for mixing purpose but as a controller for instrument parameters when Live playing.

In the "CSI" discussion we found that it only provides 7 bits for the faders in either mode. This is not considered appropriate for mixing.

There are really great and very reasonable priced Behringer products. I very happily also use an XR 18. A friend of mine loves his MR 18. Another friend of mine has an X32 plus two I/O boxes. The wing also seems great.

-Michael

[buschag]

I use the XT1 in midiCC relative mode and it is perfect. Fader and pan as they should as well as transport controls. The rest of the buttons are for custom actions. Way more useful than the reaper setup they provided.

[helgoboss]

I also stumbled upon this 7-bit limitation with the X-Touch *Compact*, which is quite disappointing.

I tried some devices to test them with ReaLearn (iCON Platform M+, X-Touch Compact, FaderPort 8, FaderPort Classic) and among them I liked the iCON Platform M+ best:

- Has 10-bit fader resolution
- Is very flat (not bulky like the X-Touch Compact) and fits better on the table than the FaderPort 8
- Still has enough space between the faders (unlike FaderPort 8)
- Doesn't get into its own way with feedback
- Doesn't appear buggy (unlike FaderPort 8, see https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=231957)
- Provides all the bare essentials, nothing that you wouldn't need (although that's subjective of course)
- Motor faders make way less noise than X-Touch Compact (they don't have built-in slow-down as with FaderPort 8 but I like that because it makes them more snappy)

I liked it so much that I kept it (if I remember correctly, it even had the best price tag of them all).

Addition: The good thing with tools such as ReaLearn and CSI at your disposal: You can (for the most part) ignore the software that ships with the controller. I found that lots of bad controller ratings are just because of crappy software and users who expect that everything works out-of-the-box. So when you make your choice, I highly suggest to look deeper and not let these bad ratings fool you. The hardware is what matters most.

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by helgoboss

I also stumbled upon this 7-bit limitation with the X-Touch,

Which one ? What about the other ones ?

[earlabs]

Originally Posted by helgoboss

I also stumbled upon this 7-bit limitation with the X-Touch, which is quite disappointing.

I tried some devices to test them with ReaLearn (iCON Platform M+, X-Touch Compact, FaderPort 8, FaderPort Classic) and among them I liked the iCON Platform M+ best:

- Has 10-bit fader resolution
- Is very flat (not bulky like the X-Touch Compact) and fits better on the table than the FaderPort 8
- Still has enough space between the faders (unlike FaderPort 8)
- Doesn't get into its own way with feedback
- Doesn't appear buggy (unlike FaderPort 8, see https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=231957)
- Provides all the bare essentials, nothing that you wouldn't need (although that's subjective of course)
- Motor faders make way less noise than X-Touch Compact (they don't have built-in slow-down as with FaderPort 8 but I like that because it makes them more snappy)

I liked it so much that I kept it (if I remember correctly, it even had the best price tag of them all).

Addition: The good thing with tools such as ReaLearn and CSI at your disposal: You can (for the most part) ignore the software that ships with the controller. I found that lots of bad controller ratings are just because of crappy software and users who expect that everything works out-of-the-box. So when you make your choice, I highly suggest to look deeper and not let these bad ratings fool you. The hardware is what matters most.

the thing is, I don't need 8/16 channels to mix. I compose electroacoustic music and work a lot with a modular synth and edit with envelope lines instead of tracks in write/touch/latch mode and then fiddling with a fader. My other music work is mastering (for other artists) and there you also mostly work on just 1 master track.
But I do need a lot of vst controlling and intricate custom built actions. So 1 fader is fine and transport controls and then a host of customizable knobs

So the Icon Platform Nano Air looks like a winner.

[helgoboss]

Originally Posted by mschnell

Which one ? What about the other ones ?

Oh sorry! The X-Touch Compact only. I will update it, don't want to cause confusion. I read the the big brother X-Touch has 10-bit but haven't tried it.

Originally Posted by earlabs

the thing is, I don't need 8/16 channels to mix. I compose electroacoustic music and work a lot with a modular synth and edit with envelope lines instead of tracks in write/touch/latch mode and then fiddling with a fader. My other music work is mastering (for other artists) and there you also mostly work on just 1 master track.
But I do need a lot of vst controlling and intricate custom built actions. So 1 fader is fine and transport controls and then a host of customizable knobs

So the Icon Platform Nano Air looks like a winner.

It looks like the M+ in miniature. Sounds promising

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by helgoboss

I read the the big brother X-Touch has 10-bit but haven't tried it.

So supposedly this is a pure firmware issue. AFAIK they use the same faders.

IMHO the "compact" firmware needs an update anyway. I encountered multiple shortcomings.
-Michael

[helgoboss]

Originally Posted by foxAsteria

Hi, trying for a couple days to get OSC working in ReaLearn. Any idea what I might be missing? It's working fine with Reaper and I tried removing the control surface settings altogether to see if it was interfering but makes no difference. The manual didn't give me any other ideas to try.

You definitely must remove the OSC control surfaces from REAPER, at least the one which uses the same local ports. Otherwise there's no way it can work. Also restart REAPER after you removed the OSC control surface.

Originally Posted by foxAsteria

Tried slightly different ports, turning off the firewall, even seen it go between "unable to connect" and appearing to be connected but still not recognizing any input from TouchOSC.

How do you check if it's connected? Best way is to check with the "Learn source" button. "Enabled for control" must be checked in the OSC device popup menu. If nothing helps, make a screenshot of your *working* REAPER OSC control surface preference page and send me your "C:\Users\USER\AppData\Roaming\REAPER\Helgoboss\Re aLearn\osc.json" file (to info@helgoboss.org) and maybe then I can tell you what's wrong.

Originally Posted by foxAsteria

One more sort of OT question since you use TouchOSC and understand how it actually works: can I use two different devices with the same templates at the same time or do they need to use different templates and/or configs? Feedback always seems to go to one or the other when I try this.

I'm no TouchOSC expert but I'm sure you can use the same template on 2 different devices. What matters is the config.

Control direction: I guess you want both devices to control different things, not the same things. You can achieve that by adding 2 separate OSC devices in ReaLearn (with different local port of course). Then you can use one ReaLearn instance with device A and another ReaLearn instance with device B.

Feedback direction: The device host is naturally another one.

Originally Posted by foxAsteria

Should I be setting up each controller to communicate exclusively with ReaLearn or Reaper or can those setups co-exist?

Sorry, networking is like black magic to me sometimes. Maybe I burned the wrong incense or sacrificed the wrong goat. Thanks for your help.

Animal sacrifices in the name of ReaLearn ... not sure if I can go along with that To answer your question: They can coexist as long as they don't listen on the same local port (on the machine running REAPER). For your initial experiments I suggest to use only one of them.

[earlabs]

Further examination.
I tried all kinds of settings/presets on the x-touch 1. What nags me the most is that faderbank up/down and channel up/down won't come to life. I can't get them to work. They don't react. And there are other buttons that seem to have a dedicated function which you cannot get to work. When you take an action and try to add a button to that function then it will not react when I click the button. I don't know how they do that. I guess you do.

Only MC user preset offers the most flexibility is MC user. Here it seems that all buttons are open to program except for the upper row mute/solo/rec which are completely dead. The other buttons are programmable but feedback (like lighten the led of the button) is not possible.
I fiddled some time with programming the play/pause button and it either didn't light up (but transport worked) or it stopped immediately after touching the button.

So now I;m back to MC reaper. The setting I have been using since a year which offers the best functionality (but not the goddamn fader/channel buttons and som of the transport options are effed up too.

Signing off for now!

[helgoboss]

Originally Posted by earlabs

Further examination.
I tried all kinds of settings/presets on the x-touch 1. What nags me the most is that faderbank up/down and channel up/down won't come to life. I can't get them to work. They don't react. And there are other buttons that seem to have a dedicated function which you cannot get to work. When you take an action and try to add a button to that function then it will not react when I click the button. I don't know how they do that. I guess you do.

Only MC user preset offers the most flexibility is MC user. Here it seems that all buttons are open to program except for the upper row mute/solo/rec which are completely dead. The other buttons are programmable but feedback (like lighten the led of the button) is not possible.
I fiddled some time with programming the play/pause button and it either didn't light up (but transport worked) or it stopped immediately after touching the button.

So now I;m back to MC reaper. The setting I have been using since a year which offers the best functionality (but not the goddamn fader/channel buttons and som of the transport options are effed up too.

Signing off for now!

Sounds like a weird device but maybe you overlooked something. Have you checked the absolute basics, I mean e.g. that a MIDI message comes in (via ReaControlMIDI "Show log")? Anyway, I will order it and see for myself. Would be very surprised if we can't get a working controller preset.

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by earlabs

What nags me the most is that faderbank up/down and channel up/down won't come to life.

What exactly does the One send when you hit those buttons ?

[Regisfofo]

Originally Posted by Helgoboss

You came up with a quite exotic use for the new feature, I like it Your idea/preset is relying on an assumption: That the internal parameter change (caused by the two ReaLearn parameter change mappings 1 and 2) is "digested" BEFORE actually selecting/unselecting the track (mapping 3). That's unfortunately not the case, you can't rely on that. Parameter changes are processed a tiny bit later than you would actually think, that's unavoidable. That's why you get this weird behavior.

I already wanted to tell you "Sorry, you can't do it that way!" BUT: Destiny wants it that 2.8.2 introduced another feature which makes your idea actually work You just need to set the mapping 3 (the one with the <Dynamic> expression) to "Fire: After timeout" and set the Timeout to a very small value, at least 1 ms. By doing that, you delay the execution of the track selection and give the parameter change enough time to "arrive".

Ok, I tried to set Timeout >1ms but I did not see an improvement. But anyway, I did found a better solution using midi notes to switch track selection using Realearn. Only thing I couldn't figure out is how to limit the acting keys top number. Maybe adding some king of Max(x,y) fonction in the <Dynamic> expression ?
Here is my preset :

{
  "version": "2.8.0-pre2",
  "id": "JtF9g3L2",
  "controlDeviceId": "19",
  "defaultGroup": {},
  "mappings": [
    {
      "id": "59e936a7-4538-497a-bf7a-ac7c033f17d6",
      "name": "3",
      "source": {
        "type": 2,
        "channel": 0,
        "number": 11,
        "isRegistered": false,
        "is14Bit": false,
        "oscArgIndex": 0
      },
      "mode": {
        "minSourceValue": 0.1889763779527559,
        "maxSourceValue": 0.968503937007874,
        "minTargetValue": 0.001
      },
      "target": {
        "fxAnchor": "id",
        "fxIndex": 1,
        "fxGUID": "683F555C-57B9-46BD-8107-67A8BDF31BBB",
        "useProject": true,
        "moveView": true,
        "seekPlay": true
      }
    },
    {
      "id": "926ec770-e231-4dd9-83eb-2f50a206766c",
      "name": "2",
      "source": {
        "type": 2,
        "isRegistered": false,
        "is14Bit": false,
        "oscArgIndex": 0
      },
      "mode": {
        "maxSourceValue": 0.7874015748031497,
        "minPressMillis": 10,
        "maxPressMillis": 10,
        "fireMode": "timeout"
      },
      "target": {
        "type": 6,
        "trackExpression": "floor(p1*99)+1",
        "fxAnchor": "id",
        "trackExclusivity": 2,
        "useProject": true,
        "moveView": true,
        "seekPlay": true
      }
    }
  ],
  "parameters": {
    "0": {
      "value": 0.09181818
    }
  }
  }

All I have in my project is one realearn Track one Folder Track with 10 child tracks
When I play note 24 it selects my first child track,
note 25 my second etc... Just what I want!
My only left problem is, note 35 will select in another top level track 'within folder' witch can lead to some kind of a mess...

But I can tell you, this is a proper hack Why don't you use the "Selected track" target? It's made exactly for your use case. Damn, I think I have to improve the target naming. Just create 2 incremental buttons, one for your "previous" and one for your "next" button.

How would you do that ? Sorry I don't get it.

Anyway to my purpose, Increment/decrement is too slow I think. Much better to 'jump' to the key triggering the sound I want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Regisfofo
Concerning the <Dynamic> track index, Is there a way to access own realearn's instance track index in the expression box ? So we could easily limit the concerned tracks to 'after this realearn track' ?

I could do that. Not sure if that's a good idea though. Do you still need that?

Yeah, You may be right, it could become messy. better to keep realearn free from this dependance and I can just add the good number in the <Dynamic> tab....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Regisfofo
Would it be possible to 'unmute' exclusively within folder too ? That would allow to save cpu.

Yes. Just set Target Min/Max to 0 ("Off").

Would never have guessed! Thank you!

[helgoboss]

Originally Posted by Regisfofo

How would you do that ? Sorry I don't get it.

If you want previous/next buttons (or encoders) to navigate within your tracks, your way is FAR too complicated. All you have to do is this (no need for "<Dynamic>"):

{
  "version": "2.8.0-pre3",
  "id": "vbyZx6LK",
  "controlDeviceId": "2",
  "defaultGroup": {},
  "mappings": [
    {
      "id": "c007a7b3-c1c3-43cc-80f8-eeadd70f9fde",
      "name": "Previous track",
      "source": {
        "type": 1,
        "channel": 0,
        "number": 48,
        "isRegistered": false,
        "is14Bit": false,
        "oscArgIndex": 0
      },
      "mode": {
        "type": 1,
        "reverseIsEnabled": true
      },
      "target": {
        "type": 14,
        "fxAnchor": "id",
        "useProject": true,
        "moveView": true,
        "seekPlay": true
      }
    },
    {
      "id": "27eb08bb-4cea-484b-8ae4-c20959d1d0b8",
      "name": "Next track",
      "source": {
        "type": 1,
        "channel": 0,
        "number": 50,
        "isRegistered": false,
        "is14Bit": false,
        "oscArgIndex": 0
      },
      "mode": {
        "type": 1
      },
      "target": {
        "type": 14,
        "fxAnchor": "id",
        "useProject": true,
        "moveView": true,
        "seekPlay": true
      }
    }
  ]
}

Later you mentioned that you want to jump *directly* (absolutely) to specific tracks, depending on which note you pressed. You are right, for this the "Selected track" target is not so useful because absolute control is not its strength.
Not yet! There's a feature request that I feel I should implement soon in order to prevent users from shooting themselves into the foot by finding complicated workarounds: https://github.com/helgoboss/realearn/issues/184.

This is how you would do it (see preset below). But I guess you see the problem when you try it. You need to play with Source Min/Max in order to get it right and need to re-adjust that whenever you change the number of tracks.

{
  "version": "2.8.0-pre3",
  "id": "vbyZx6LK",
  "controlDeviceId": "2",
  "defaultGroup": {},
  "mappings": [
    {
      "id": "c007a7b3-c1c3-43cc-80f8-eeadd70f9fde",
      "name": "Selected track",
      "source": {
        "type": 2,
        "channel": 0,
        "number": 50,
        "isRegistered": false,
        "is14Bit": false,
        "oscArgIndex": 0
      },
      "mode": {
        "minSourceValue": 0.36,
        "maxSourceValue": 0.59
      },
      "target": {
        "type": 14,
        "fxAnchor": "id",
        "useProject": true,
        "moveView": true,
        "seekPlay": true
      }
    }
  ]
}

[Regisfofo]

Ah ok! Completely missed the selected track type (was confounding it with track selection...)
I see it's much nicely responding here, track selection changes are faster. nice!

But still, what I'd need would be to do that within folder as I want to use several instruments at the same time (several track selected at the same time, each one in his own folder...)

[helgoboss]

Originally Posted by Regisfofo

Ah ok! Completely missed the selected track type (was confounding it with track selection...)
I see it's much nicely responding here, track selection changes are faster. nice!

But still, what I'd need would be to do that within folder as I want to use several instruments at the same time (several track selected at the same time, each one in his own folder...)

For this to work I could equip the "Selected track" target with a "start" track and a "Only within folder" option. But the list of FRs is getting longer and longer so this could take a while. Since you want to press keys to jump to tracks directly, why not create one mapping for each note? This would definitely solve you problem, it's just some initial work on your side. If you know how to use a text editor, you can make it faster by using "Export to clipboard", pasting the snippet into your editor, doing some copy'n'paste, copy the result and using "Import from clipboard" to get it back into ReaLearn.

[Regisfofo]

Ok so track selection could take care of arming, but still, I'd need to mute all the other tracks of the folder to save the cpu. 16 ampsims running at the same time won't do cpu any good! And I plan to have a pad folder, a bass folder, a drum folder etc...
I fear that it will take a lot of mappings to do, but I'll try it, see if it's manageable for me..
Any chance to have 'track visibility' as target somewhere in the futur ? (where's that praying emoji ?)

Anyway thank you for your time and efforts on that one!

[helgoboss]

Originally Posted by Regisfofo

Ok so track selection could take care of arming, but still, I'd need to mute all the other tracks of the folder to save the cpu. 16 ampsims running at the same time won't do cpu any good! And I plan to have a pad folder, a bass folder, a drum folder etc...
I fear that it will take a lot of mappings to do, but I'll try it, see if it's manageable for me..

Seems like you need an "Unmuted and unselected track" target. But that sounds way too specialized. There will always be cases which can't be easily covered by just combining a handful of ReaLearn's built-in targets. The new "<Dynamic>" feature makes that unnecessary in a lot of cases, but not all of them.

In such cases you usually would need to resort to one of the following things:

a) Use ReaLearn to trigger a specialized ReaScript (with which possibilities are really endless, but the flip side of the coin is that you need to do programming).

b) Bite the bullet and add each mapping by hand.

c) Generate mappings (I still think sooner or later someone should come up with a nice web-based mapping generator).

d) Or in your case, you could still pursue that "<Dynamic>" road. Even I said it's a hack, you might be able to make it work.

Originally Posted by Regisfofo

Any chance to have 'track visibility' as target somewhere in the futur ? (where's that praying emoji ?)

Anyway thank you for your time and efforts on that one!

Here's the praying emoji: https://github.com/helgoboss/realearn/issues/190

[helgoboss]

Anybody still with me regarding the prereleases? I know, ReaLearn moves forward fast lately and I guess it's sometimes hard to follow all the little "revolutions" that it silently introduces and probably go unnoticed for most REAPER users. However, starting in a few days I probably won't have much time left for it anymore, for about half a year, which should give you plenty of time to catch up. Speaking of "catch up": Besides introducing the long-awaited "Projection Feedback", this new prerelease brings 2 new "Takeover" modes. See for yourself!

Also, I've realized that some of you have struggles achieving the more complex things that I've shown in the video and understanding ReaLearn's more advanced concepts. Can't blame you for that ... ReaLearn goes to great lengths to support countless usage scenarios but that comes at a price: It's a bit demanding and needs patience if you are not used yet to the ReaLearn way of doing things. As soon as you understand it, sky is the limit. Before that, some WTF moments are guaranteed. I plan to improve on this by publishing step-by-step video tutorials that focus on particular usage scenarios. Until then, having the patience to read the user guide and asking questions here is mandatory if you really want to use its more advanced features.


Released ReaLearn 2.8.0-pre3 (ReaPack installation instructions)

Changes:
- #235 Added support for showing current target values in projection view (= "Projection feedback", needs a prerelease version of the ReaLearn Companion app to work)
- #12 Added takeover modes "Parallel" and "Catch up" (renamed existing takeover modes to "Pick up" and "Long time no see")
- #237 Fixed idle CPU usage when having OSC feedback enabled for at least one OSC device (was quite high)
- #234 Fixed channel "Full" error when invoking lots of actions in a small amount of time
- Fixed bug that was causing ReaLearn to forget the FX in FX targets (introduced in 2.8.0-pre1)

IMPORTANT: In order to try the new projection feedback, you temporarily need to replace the first part of the Browser address line https://realearn.helgoboss.org/ with https://605335d551bba800082b1e37--re...n.netlify.app/ when opening the ReaLearn Companion web app. There's no Android beta version yet.

[earlabs]

Ow man! Your working so hard and I am just struggling. Now my MFT settings just blew away and I cannot get them to work anymore... I don't even understand how I broke the mapping. But suddenly the presets that worked fine don't do that anymore. And everytime I make a new connection it seems that that setting can't be stored.

What I do is in the target I set
Track to selected
FX by ID and name choose the FX
Parameter by position and <paramter name>
I choose FX must have focus
OK

then I close the project and open a fresh project
set up realearn, setup a track with the FX that I just programmed
Open realearn
choose the right preset
and every target is fucked up
Fx by ID says <not present> and bunch of letters and figures
But the FX is there in exactly the same place.

It happened with 2.71 and now with 2.80 pre 3 as well.

[foxAsteria]

Originally Posted by helgoboss

Anybody still with me regarding the prereleases?

I'm using em, but probably not any of the new features (they might be too advanced for my needs). Will let you know if I run into issues.

Thanks for the help before, I think I just dyslexic with my port numbers and couldn't tell after a while, but good to know they can't share the same port on the Reaper side.

I actually did want multiple devices doing exactly the same things and will experiment more with that, but if I have to train myself to carry one device around the room, I can manage. Thanks again

[helgoboss]

Originally Posted by earlabs

Ow man! Your working so hard and I am just struggling. Now my MFT settings just blew away and I cannot get them to work anymore... I don't even understand how I broke the mapping. But suddenly the presets that worked fine don't do that anymore. And everytime I make a new connection it seems that that setting can't be stored.

What I do is in the target I set
Track to selected
FX by ID and name choose the FX
Parameter by position and <paramter name>
I choose FX must have focus
OK

then I close the project and open a fresh project
set up realearn, setup a track with the FX that I just programmed
Open realearn
choose the right preset
and every target is fucked up
Fx by ID says <not present> and bunch of letters and figures
But the FX is there in exactly the same place.

It happened with 2.71 and now with 2.80 pre 3 as well.

I did what you did and tried it in *all* combinations (saving in 2.7.1/2.8.0-pre3, loading in 2.7.1/2.8.0-pre3) but couldn't reproduce the phenomena you are reporting. 2.8.0-pre1 and 2.8.0-pre2 had a bug that caused FX to be forgotten in some situations but 2.7.1 and 2.8.0-pre3 not. Addition: "FX by ID and name" doesn't exist. So I tried both "FX by ID" and "FX by ID and position".

Now I'm sure you checked this ... but just *in case* you missed that: You have set Track to <Selected>: That means if you select a track in REAPER which doesn't contain that FX then of course ReaLearn won't find it. It will show you "<Not present>" plus the unique ID of the FX that it can't find.

BTW, using prereleases (= beta) is thin ice (thinner ice than usual). Preset fuckups are more likely to happen with prereleases.

[foxAsteria]

Originally Posted by earlabs

Fx by ID says <not present> and bunch of letters and figures
But the FX is there in exactly the same place.

Sounds like dynamic IP to me. Dunno why I never see anyone talking about this or indeed if I'm the only one who ever had the problem, but try this:

Go into wifi settings on your device, hold your finger on the connection to get to advanced settings and assign a static IP address. Should look like "192.168.0.x ." You can add what numbers you want in place of x as long as another device on the network doesn't use it already (AFAIK).

Otherwise dynamic IP changes at any given time and the setup you create won't work anymore. It's like trying to be a penpal with someone who keeps moving and not telling you.

[helgoboss]

Originally Posted by foxAsteria

Sounds like dynamic IP to me. Dunno why I never see anyone talking about this or indeed if I'm the only one who ever had the problem, but try this:

Go into wifi settings on your device, hold your finger on the connection to get to advanced settings and assign a static IP address. Should look like "192.168.0.x ." You can add what numbers you want in place of x as long as another device on the network doesn't use it already (AFAIK).

Otherwise dynamic IP changes at any given time and the setup you create won't work anymore. It's like trying to be a penpal with someone who keeps moving and not telling you.

Hint: You 2 are talking about 2 completely different things

[bernardg]

Hello,
I have ReaLearn 2 up and running. I'm very new to all this. I can see how to 'learn a target' by playing with the virtual button/knob. But I can't see how I can target "Load FX snapshot". I can't see anything in the User Guide to help, or anywhere else.
Please advise. Thanks.

[earlabs]

Originally Posted by helgoboss

Hint: You 2 are talking about 2 completely different things

I will record my movements with OBS. stay tuned.

Here you are
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fqhv8ttdd2...12-33.mkv?dl=0

I think it's self explanatory.
It looses its settings again and again