Announcing ReaLearn: Sophisticated MIDI/MCU/OSC learn for REAPER

[helgoboss]

Originally Posted by LarrySeyer

There are some things I haven't figured out how to make work yet, but I'm fairly new to the plugin. (for instance, the 'select' buttons on an AKAI APC-40 MKII send a group of MIDI messages instead of a single MIDI message so feedback doesn't work currectly using standard methods)

Thanks for the nice words!

Concerning the select buttons: Whether feedback works or not is usually related to what the controller receives, not what it sends. It's possible that the APC 40 MKII expects different MIDI messages for LED feedback than what it sends when pressing the corresponding buttons. This is not so uncommon. In this case, you can find out (e.g. by trial and error or by searching the web), which MIDI messages it needs to do LED feedback and create a corresponding mapping with only feedback direction enabled (and make the other mapping control-only).

[Sound asleep]

Originally Posted by helgoboss

In a way, but not 100% as you describe. If you map a ReaLearn (macro) to let's say FX param 1 on track A and FX param 2 on track B, adjusting that macro parameter value will affect both param 1 and param 2. However, adjusting param 1 will not affect param 2 (and adjusting param 2 will not affect param 1). Personally, I find that much more sane. Things can get quite confusing if you adjust one parameter and forgot to unlink it. When using a ReaLearn macro parameter, it's clear that a bunch of other parameters will be affected and you can always choose to opt out of this "grouping" by changing param 1 or param 2 directly.

Ok, I think I would prefer actually linking, but, this is pretty fucking cool anyway lol. Is it possible to take that macro parameter, and insert is as FX parameters on the tracks I would like to have that FX linked?

So, lets say I have ReaQ on a bunch of tracks, I could have something like this

and as long as I use the parameters on the strip, of any of the tracks with a linked plugin, then all of these would link? And if I could do that, would it require an instance of ReaLearn on every track?

Ordinarily, where would I have these macro controls? Would it be something similar, with just one dedicated track for that, as a master control, and I could link it to a bunch of slave tracks essentially?

[Sound asleep]

Originally Posted by mschnell

(seems trivial to the user but obviously complex to the programmer ).

In my experience, this is programming in a nutshell lol. I don't know enough about programming to fully comprehend the scope of the work that has gone in realearn, but I know enough to know you're a champ helgoboss lol. Really cool piece of software you made. Makes me feel like your days have more hours in them than mine lol.

[Sound asleep]

Originally Posted by mschnell

Exactly this is the use case I talked about and that had been discussed in the "Live" forum.
E.g. I have a project that implements a "headless" instrument for live playing. (My setup includes several keyboards and an XTouch compact. Reads and writes several Midi streams and generates audio for the USB D/A device. It runs in "Stop Mode" with armed tracks, "Monitoring" enabled, appropriate Midi and Audio routing.

Now I might want to control e.g. "Backgrond Tracks" via the complex (JSFX implemented) logic done in this project (which reacts on Midi from the Keyboards and the XTouch). Hence the other project would need to enter "playback" mode after enabling / unmuting appropriate tracks.

I do know that the audio from the other active project tab can be routed back via ReaRoute to be controlled and mixed in.

But AFAIK, Reaper can't route Midi between active project tabs. Hence the hope is that ReaLearn might be able to help.
(If Midi could be routed, of course dedicated instances of ReaRoute would be easily made working for such purpose.)

-Michael

I'm not very familiar with playtime, or your live situation, but just throwing this out there, do you think for your goals it would be possible to put all your stuff for your live shows into one single super project, and use playtime 2 somehow to achieve your results you want with realearn?

[mschnell]

That would very impractical. The "instrument" is a huge solid-block project, that only is modified for updating, never according to specific purposes or "shows". I need it to behave as being built-in in the hardware of my setup (of keyboards and Control Surface).

-Michael

[Sound asleep]

I can't say that I really understand what you mean, but if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. You probably considered it, or just knew it wouldn't work, but just figured I'd suggest, just in case.

[helgoboss]

Originally Posted by Sound asleep

I can't say that I really understand what you mean, but if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. You probably considered it, or just knew it wouldn't work, but just figured I'd suggest, just in case.

I don't know about Michaels specific needs, but for my live set I do it pretty much the way you say. One big project. It also works. I like for example that it's self-contained, that routing is easier within one project (doesn't ReaRoute introduce noticable latency?). Each song resides in a dedicated folder that is also designed to be as standalone as possible.

[nofish]

The feedback feature in the companion app/web browser doesn't update the elements immediately for me.
I need to click in the page (in the web browser)/touch on the screen (on my phone) then they're updated.

Am I doing something wrong? Using ReaLearn v2.12.1

[Gass n Klang]

hey guys,
did anybody of you get a behringer x32 working with realearn via osc? Don't get it why there is no signal coming in. Midi works flawlessly.

[helgoboss]

Originally Posted by Gass n Klang

hey guys,
did anybody of you get a behringer x32 working with realearn via osc? Don't get it why there is no signal coming in. Midi works flawlessly.

I don't have an x32 but I heard you need to send a particular OSC message to it in order to subscribe to its messages. This message needs to be sent in regular intervals. You can do that using the "Timer" source. See https://github.com/helgoboss/realearn/issues/518.

I would be very interested to know if this works! Also, a controller preset would be awesome.

[Gass n Klang]

I'm sorry, I won't do a full preset for x32, as I just need to send specific osc messages to lengthen reverb time etc.

Edit: I'll check that!

[helgoboss]

How far did you make it? Do you have the OSC device set up in ReaLearn already? If not, carefully follow the "OSC devices" section in the user guide: https://github.com/helgoboss/realear...oc#osc-devices.

Also, there's a very small hint in the ReaLearn controller list (https://github.com/helgoboss/realear...ntrollers.adoc) concerning the Behringer X32 in particular. There's not much written there so far. Please, if you get it to work, consider posting a few instructions here. I would like to insert it there. That would be a great help for future users in your situation.

[Gass n Klang]

Mhh doesn't work (maybe I do another mistake, but I set the IP correctly and X32 OSC messages are sent on port 10023 which I set up)

[helgoboss]

Make sure you disable those OSC bundles. Could be the reason, see controller list.

[Gass n Klang]

Mh doesn't work with deactivated bundles either.

[nofish]

I have a weird issue with one mapping, I use a controller preset, the knob sends CC7 (absolute), but I can't control anything with it (though feedback back to it works).
When enabling debug logging it says 'consumed',which I suppose suggests it is 'eaten' somehow, but I don't know why.



Attaching the presets here.

[helgoboss]

Originally Posted by Gass n Klang

Mh doesn't work with deactivated bundles either.

Did you try ReaLearn with another OSC software, e.g. TouchOSC? Just want to rule out a general OSC setup error. If that doesn't work either, it's a setup/network issue. If it works, it can still be a setup/network issue on x32 side or it is something very x32 specific ... in that case I think it's better to find someone who also has that device and got it to work.

Originally Posted by nofish

I have a weird issue with one mapping, I use a controller preset, the knob sends CC7 (absolute), but I can't control anything with it (though feedback back to it works).
When enabling debug logging it says 'consumed',which I suppose suggests it is 'eaten' somehow, but I don't know why.


Attaching the presets here.

"consumed" can happen if you have another mapping somewhere in that instance that uses NRPN or 14 bit CCs. Do you have that?

[nofish]

Originally Posted by helgoboss

"consumed" can happen if you have another mapping somewhere in that instance that uses NRPN or 14 bit CCs. Do you have that?

Thanks.
I think I only used 7 bit CCs.
But doesn't matter so much anymore as I've restarted mapping from scratch (due to wrong approaches) and so far it works.
Will report back if it happens again.

Other things that came up during this mapping project:

- Can I make a toggle button on my controller (sends CC 0/127 values on repeated presses) the functionality of a momentary button in ReaLearn?

- There's an option "Auto-correct settings" which I know what it does and have turned off in this case.
But still on every main preset save it asks me to correct the mappings ("Some of the mappings have references...") so I have to be careful to press 'No' every time.
Wouldn't it make sense to omit this prompt if user has disabled the "Auto-correct settings option" (or could there be another option to disable this prompt on save)?

[helgoboss]

Originally Posted by nofish

Thanks.
I think I only used 7 bit CCs.
But doesn't matter so much anymore as I've restarted mapping from scratch (due to wrong approaches) and so far it works.
Will report back if it happens again.

Other things that came up during this mapping project:

- Can I make a toggle button on my controller (sends CC 0/127 values on repeated presses) the functionality of a momentary button in ReaLearn?

- There's an option "Auto-correct settings" which I know what it does and have turned off in this case.
But still on every main preset save it asks me to correct the mappings ("Some of the mappings have references...") so I have to be careful to press 'No' every time.
Wouldn't it make sense to omit this prompt if user has disabled the "Auto-correct settings option" (or could there be another option to disable this prompt on save)?

You can use the source character "Toggle-only button". This interprets all CC values as 100%, even a value of 0. So you can use such a button for toggling or triggering things.

Your second question ... not sure. Why do you press no? Pressing no will have the effect that it doesn't work in other projects. And if you don't want to use the preset in other projects, then there's no reason to create a preset in the first place.

[Gass n Klang]

Originally Posted by helgoboss

Did you try ReaLearn with another OSC software, e.g. TouchOSC? Just want to rule out a general OSC setup error. If that doesn't work either, it's a setup/network issue. If it works, it can still be a setup/network issue on x32 side or it is something very x32 specific ... in that case I think it's better to find someone who also has that device and got it to work.

I got it running. Think there was a port issue.

Is there a way to send the current values of all mapped parameters whenever I hit "play" in reaper?

[helgoboss]

Originally Posted by Gass n Klang

I got it running. Think there was a port issue.

Is there a way to send the current values of all mapped parameters whenever I hit "play" in reaper?

Nice. If you have the chance, it would be awesome if you could send me a JSON export of your ReaLearn instance so I can add some instructions to the controller list.

There's a REAPER action to let all instances send all feedback (search the action list for "ReaLearn"). There's no source to execute something as soon as REAPER starts playing, a feature request exists though.

There might be a workaround, but first of all, it shouldn't be necessary. ReaLearn is supposed to send feedback whenever something has changed.

[Gass n Klang]

Originally Posted by helgoboss

There's a REAPER action to let all instances send all feedback (search the action list for "ReaLearn"). There's no source to execute something as soon as REAPER starts playing, a feature request exists though.
.

supercool. This can be used as an Actionmarker, so perfect for my needs!

[Gass n Klang]

mute buttons on the x32 via OSC behave inverted to reaper for some reason, even if control in is disabled. So it shouldn't be a feedback problem.

EDIT: ahh there is a reverse button for that.

[Gass n Klang]

there's a little bug:
ReaEQ 100% Gain is 36,1dB. In ReaLearn you only can go up to 12dB.
=> I cannot match the x32's 15dB EQ gain values

Besides: Is there anything planned regarding curve transformation? Otherwise it's difficult to match values of different devices.

[helgoboss]

Originally Posted by Gass n Klang

there's a little bug:
ReaEQ 100% Gain is 36,1dB. In ReaLearn you only can go up to 12dB.
=> I cannot match the x32's 15dB EQ gain values

Besides: Is there anything planned regarding curve transformation? Otherwise it's difficult to match values of different devices.

That's a general thing with open-ended value ranges. ReaLearn always needs a 100% value. It would be a new feature (concerning all targets) allowing values that exceed the (soft) maximum. You can add a feature request.

There's no visual curve transformation (FR exists). But you can use arbitrary control transformation formulas to create curves. You'll need to dig out your old curve sketching skills from the math classes.

[Gass n Klang]

Originally Posted by helgoboss

There's no visual curve transformation (FR exists). But you can use arbitrary control transformation formulas to create curves. You'll need to dig out your old curve sketching skills from the math classes.

works nicely but I need it on the feedback/output side.

[Sound asleep]

Originally Posted by Gass n Klang

there's a little bug:
ReaEQ 100% Gain is 36,1dB. In ReaLearn you only can go up to 12dB.
=> I cannot match the x32's 15dB EQ gain values

Besides: Is there anything planned regarding curve transformation? Otherwise it's difficult to match values of different devices.

It isn't non-destructive, but if you want to, you can have the EQ FX of the behringer baked into the audio you outpus to reaper, by sending busses out to the card. I think there are 16 outs you can do that with. some of which will be your monitors unfortunately.

[Gass n Klang]

Originally Posted by Sound asleep

It isn't non-destructive, but if you want to, you can have the EQ FX of the behringer baked into the audio you outpus to reaper, by sending busses out to the card. I think there are 16 outs you can do that with. some of which will be your monitors unfortunately.

I just want to remote control my x32 for live gigs. So I just need a remote control (reaEq ins this case) that matches my x32 EQ somewhat so I can do the automations on my PC without having to look at the desk all the time. There won't be any audio running through the pc.

[helgoboss]

Originally Posted by Gass n Klang

works nicely but I need it on the feedback/output side.

Feedback transformation maybe?

[helgoboss]

Originally Posted by Gass n Klang

I just want to remote control my x32 for live gigs. So I just need a remote control (reaEq ins this case) that matches my x32 EQ somewhat so I can do the automations on my PC without having to look at the desk all the time. There won't be any audio running through the pc.

Ah, you want to change parameters in ReaEQ using its GUI and let the changes be reflected on the x32? In other words, REAPER controls the device. Cool, that's an interesting way of using ReaLearn. That essentially means you need to switch perspective: The feedback direction is now the control direction!

For this scenario, you should not use the target "OSC: Send message" (except for the timer, which has a pure utility function in your case). Instead, most of your mappings should have an OSC source and a "FX parameter: Set value" target. This is the right thing to do because "feedback" direction in ReaLearn simply means sending events occurring in REAPER to your device. This gives you some benefits, for example the ability to use the mentioned feedback transformation formulas.

[Gass n Klang]

Originally Posted by helgoboss

Ah, you want to change parameters in ReaEQ using its GUI and let the changes be reflected on the x32...

yes exactly. I just need the Reaper -> x32 direction. The other direction is just needed for learning things. Yes I already have OSC source and Set value targets.

[helgoboss]

Originally Posted by Gass n Klang

yes exactly. I just need the Reaper -> x32 direction. The other direction is just needed for learning things. You mean I should switch perspective for everything I do (including mutes, faders and so on)?

Well, if you for example move a volume fader in REAPER and as a result want the corresponding motor fader on the x32 to move, yes, then definitely you should have the motor fader as a source (OSC source) and the REAPER volume fader as target ("Track: Set volume") ... which is like switching perspective. Same with mute buttons and so on. Did you do it the other way around? This wouldn't even be possible because there's no such thing as a REAPER track volume source.

[Gass n Klang]

perfect, then I did everything as intended. Just one thing: I wanna do one project for each song. But realearn seems to work on other project tabs in the background. How to stop that?

[manthosdm]

Hello everyone! First of all... I LOVE realearn. Thank you Benjamin for such an in-depth plugin, it's a dream come true. I have been mapping it to various plugins and I have discovered settings and sounds I would never have done via a mouse!

So, I have a question regarding the ''When target value met'' condition. I have a saturation plugin by Klanghelm, the SDDR2.



It has 4 modes of saturation, all governed by one parameter called mode (the are the switches under the VU meters). I have mapped mode to 4 buttons on my midi controller app (android), each sendind only one parameter, so I have four switches to quickly change the modes.

Each mode though has it's own Drive, Output, etc (Drive 1, Drive 2, Drive 3, and so on). I have mapped a single slider on an android midi controller to all 4 drive parameters (so 4 mappings in total, driven by one cc). And I want to activate each mapping when the appropriate mode is selected, so it pseudo-stores and pseudo-recalls each drive whenever I am in the appropriate mode - my app has feedback, so I assume it's going to reflect the change and the fader is going to jump in the appropriate mode. This is important because (a) each drive has it's own sweet spot, (b) I have limited amount of sliders available on my app.

I have tried using the ''when target value met'' condition for activation... but I can't seem to make it work. Here is a screenshot (I have also attachet it on a drive link on the end of the post, it seems blurry on imgur and I don't know why).



I have made a mapping without an assigned controller on the left, called ''Mode Selector''. Its target is the ''Mode'' parameter on my plugin. Then, on the mapping ''Drive 1'' I chose ''when target value met'', chose the ''Mode Selector'' mapping, and tried to set the y parameter...

...but I can't wrap my head around it. I wan't it to be active ONLY when the mode parameter is on TUBE, which is the first mode. I tried y = 0, y = TUBE, but it seems to be always on. Note: The process needs to be repeated 3 more times, so Drive2 needs to be conditionally activated when the ''Mode Selector'' mapping is on value 2 (or DIGI), and so on for Drive3 and Drive4.

Any ideas on what might help?

Mappings Screenshot: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PgY...ew?usp=sharing

[helgoboss]

Matching on discrete values is a bit difficult, but possible. The y variable in such an expression is always a number between 0 (0%) and 1 (100%). You need to find out which mode corresponds to which percentage (by looking into the other mapping). Let's say TUBE corresponds to 33.57 %, then you could enter "y == 0.3357".

Could be that even this doesn't work because these are floating point numbers (sorry, now it gets technical). That means you don't have 100% accuracy. Then try something like this: "abs(y - 0.3357) < 0.00001". The EEL language (used in control and feedback transformation) does this kind of thing automatically when using the == operator but the expression language I use for conditional activation doesn't.

[manthosdm]

Yes! It worked! Thank you oh so much!!!

I needed to get to the ''abs(y - 0.3357) < 0.00001'' formula and use the percentage indicated by the ''Mode Selector'' mapping. And it freakin' worked like a charm! It retains the parameter that it had before it got deactivated, and reflects it to the controller when I switch modes! This is AMAZING!

[Gass n Klang]

Originally Posted by Gass n Klang

I wanna do one project for each song. But realearn seems to work on other project tabs in the background. How to stop that?

any chance for that? Sorry for being annoying but my show does depend on that :P

[helgoboss]

Originally Posted by Gass n Klang

any chance for that? Sorry for being annoying but my show does depend on that :P

At the moment, you can only disable that behavior by choosing not to run background projects (right-click the tab area and disable that option).

UPDATE: If this is no option for you, I guess you could map the same buttons that you use for switching between project tabs to enable/disable all ReaLearn instances as desired. This is more of a workaround though, it's a bit annoying to set it up.

[Gass n Klang]

Originally Posted by helgoboss

At the moment, you can only disable that behavior by choosing not to run background projects (right-click the tab area and disable that option).

ok disabling realearn should solve the problem, too (can be activated by automation).
But it would be supercool if we could temporarily "Enable for control" when clicking the "get feedback from all instances" action.

[nofish]

Originally Posted by helgoboss

You can use the source character "Toggle-only button". This interprets all CC values as 100%, even a value of 0. So you can use such a button for toggling or triggering things.

Thanks.
Reading in the manual I see "Toggle-only-button" is not recommended, so I rather changed it on my controller so the buttons act as momentary.
(Just thought it's a bit quicker doing it in ReaLearn but I rather went with the proper way.)

Your second question ... not sure. Why do you press no? Pressing no will have the effect that it doesn't work in other projects. And if you don't want to use the preset in other projects, then there's no reason to create a preset in the first place.

I get this (I think), but thing is I'd like to use the projection feature for this setup so I started with a controller preset even though it's not (directly) reuseable for other projects.