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Old 11-03-2019, 11:28 PM   #1
The Bunker
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Default Interview with Justin Frankel deverloper of Reaper

Just came across this and thought people here would dig it. Interview with the brains behind our favourite DAW. It gets deep and nerdy and its super interesting.

http://dawbench.libsyn.com/episode-0...present-future

Its also here on Spotify if anyone wants to listen to it on that platform.

https://open.spotify.com/show/3mdPLeWpL4hiarAGFdg8eu

Enjoy!
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Old 11-04-2019, 12:01 AM   #2
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Thanks for sharing!

Greetings
D.
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Old 11-04-2019, 04:33 AM   #3
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Thanks for sharing this!!
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Old 11-04-2019, 05:07 AM   #4
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Nice. Thanks. I downloaded it and put it in GOM player where I can play it at 1.6x speed. It really moves along nicely. :-)
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Old 11-04-2019, 09:11 AM   #5
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Interesting interview!

At around minute 86 Justin mentions a Windows 10 update that fixes an issue with loading a lot of VSTs that use a different version of the runtime, like Arturia or SynthEdit based VSTs, where you can't add new instances after a certain number. Previously the limit was 100, now it's 4000.

I use a lot of old SynthEdit VSTs and I've run into this issue several times.

Any idea WHICH Windows update includes this fix?

I'm very careful with Windows updates, as they often break things, since MS fired their testing team. I want to keep my DAW machine as stable as possible, but I need this fix.
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Old 11-04-2019, 09:17 AM   #6
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^It's in insider build 18312 - I don't think it's standalone update... That was last January so not sure if/when it has been extended to public release and not insider...

https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexp...w-build-18312/
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Old 11-04-2019, 09:25 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by HoneyBadger View Post
Interesting interview!

At around minute 86 Justin mentions a Windows 10 update that fixes an issue with loading a lot of VSTs that use a different version of the runtime, like Arturia or SynthEdit based VSTs, where you can't add new instances after a certain number. Previously the limit was 100, now it's 4000.

I use a lot of old SynthEdit VSTs and I've run into this issue several times.

Any idea WHICH Windows update includes this fix?

I'm very careful with Windows updates, as they often break things, since MS fired their testing team. I want to keep my DAW machine as stable as possible, but I need this fix.
1903 update.
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Old 11-04-2019, 01:02 PM   #8
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Very interesting. I enjoyed it
some topics discussed:
  • proper bug reporting is important
  • compare bug fixing with other companies
  • scripting in REAPER amazing ... Justin: yes there are some amazing scripters like mpl
  • also another example... like reticulate amazing... Justin: I haven't used it... that's out of my scope.
  • Justin: API mostly work but it is not really pretty.
  • MIDI side of REAPER.... vs Cubase...
  • Performance... separate reverbs vs one reverb and sends. People may need to change how to route projects. Hyperthreading for audio does still have some negative effects.
  • Linux, everything is open and we can really dig on the kernel and how everything works and it is a nice place to be testing things. The plugins are the issue on Linux. ALSA driver works really well and Jack on top of it to do more things like routing etc.
  • Cubase performance decreasing on each new version since version 6. Why would they do that?
  • Difference Other DAWs Audio engines vs REAPER audio engine
  • Future developments. Rewriting things, breaking other million things.
  • Video in REAPER
  • Origin of name REAPER. Happy music harvesting, no death
  • Why Cockos is different than other companies: Pricing, marketing, lack of copy protection...
  • OSX vs Windows... Justin: I don't really use windows 10.. I use Linux and macs, but it was nice to see the latest update on windows 10 about file local storage limitations and dpc latency.
  • MMCSS (unofficial) fix patch for windows 10. for machines with high number of cores.
  • REAPER "one type track" advantages.


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Old 11-04-2019, 01:13 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heda View Post
Very interesting. I enjoyed it
some topics discussed:
Thank you Hector for review! Appreciate it.
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Old 11-04-2019, 01:14 PM   #10
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Very nice podcast, I could easily listen to all of it at normal speed!
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Old 11-04-2019, 01:31 PM   #11
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Ha ha. I like the words to zoom so 1.6x was perfect to me. I call it Gioia speed,
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Old 11-04-2019, 01:38 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bunker View Post
Just came across this and thought people here would dig it. Interview with the brains behind our favourite DAW. It gets deep and nerdy and its super interesting.

http://dawbench.libsyn.com/episode-0...present-future

Its also here on Spotify if anyone wants to listen to it on that platform.

https://open.spotify.com/show/3mdPLeWpL4hiarAGFdg8eu

Enjoy!
wow, that's cool, thank you!
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Old 11-04-2019, 01:56 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by mlprod View Post
1903 update.
Does Windows 10 LTSC 2019 (version 1809) have this fix?

(LTSC is supposed to get "some" bug fix updates, but not sure if this bug counts as severe enough for MS to allow it.)
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Old 11-04-2019, 02:04 PM   #14
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LTSC is always late compared to regular builds. When your LTSC goes to build 1903 it should have it.
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Old 11-04-2019, 02:10 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoneyBadger View Post
Does Windows 10 LTSC 2019 (version 1809) have this fix?

(LTSC is supposed to get "some" bug fix updates, but not sure if this bug counts as severe enough for MS to allow it.)
You can test it yourself, Open Actions, search for and run, "[developer] Debug console", in that window enter "tls_avail" at the bottom and click run button.

my results,
Code:
Win10 Pro 1903 [Version 10.0.18362.267]
TLS slots available: 1017
FLS slots available: 4065

Win10 Pro 1809 [Version 10.0.17763.615]
TLS slots available: 1017
FLS slots available: 113
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Old 11-04-2019, 02:10 PM   #16
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I always assumed that Justin was a diehard Windows user, up until the mac version starting receiving significant attention, which seemed to bring OSX into his sights more frequently.
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Old 11-04-2019, 03:08 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by HoneyBadger View Post
Does Windows 10 LTSC 2019 (version 1809) have this fix?

(LTSC is supposed to get "some" bug fix updates, but not sure if this bug counts as severe enough for MS to allow it.)
It isn't truly a bug since the original limit was by design - it's an increase of the limit. It's true that sometimes bug gets interchanged "work item" but since there is a question about severity, it's not a bug in that form.
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Old 11-04-2019, 03:42 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz View Post
I call it Gioia speed,
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Old 11-04-2019, 03:55 PM   #19
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@Edgemeal: Thanks, good to know! Btw, does that show the total slot limit or remaining slots for the process?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
LTSC is always late compared to regular builds. When your LTSC goes to build 1903 it should have it.
So it seems to be update KB4487181 according to
https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexp...w-build-18312/
but @karbomusic said that it won't count as a bug, so that means LTSC 2019 (v1809) won't get this update?
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Old 11-05-2019, 07:09 AM   #20
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Awesome interview!, I would like to clear up a cultural misunderstanding that arose: in the U.S. a thong in a kind of underwear worn by women of dubious reputation, apparently in the rest of the world thongs are sandals!
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Old 11-05-2019, 11:37 AM   #21
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this was cool, thanks for sharing. I had no idea Justin was the creator of Winamp, wow!

I have to admit, I was pretty disappointed when Justin says that, for new features and/or bug fixes, his thought process to evaluate if they will get implemented depended largely on whether he will personally find the feature useful and how much work is involved....the latter, if a lot, means nope.

On the one hand I get it, when you run your own business you can do what you want...nothing more needs to be said. But, when your product or service touches so many people who rely on it and usually want the best for it in terms of features, there should be more consideration of those needs. It's funny, because the whole time I've been using Reaper (almost 2 years now) I never got that impression, so I was surprised to hear that from him. And I am not sure how much of that he really meant in terms of the way features are evaluated, but i'm just saying it was disappointing to hear. Don't hate me!

He also said...."don't share anything on the internet [or else]"....probably going to be my new signature.
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Old 11-05-2019, 11:45 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by davetbass View Post
in the U.S. a thong in a kind of underwear worn by women of reputation, apparently in the rest of the world thongs are sandals!
FTFY.

Seriously though, it means both in the US. Witness Kyuss' "Thong Song" from 92, where he says "No shoes, just thongs". Not to be confused with Sisqo's more famous "Thong Song" in which he makes the unfortunate descriptor "dumps like a truck", and is definitely talking about underwear/bikini bottoms.
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Old 11-05-2019, 11:58 PM   #23
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... how much work is involved....the latter, if a lot, means nope.
No, it means that available time is always finite and how that resource is spend is obviously subject to a selection process. It has nothing to do with how much time is needed but everything with the needed amount of time in respect to what it will deliver. It's called the 'law of diminishing returns'.

I'm a software dev myself, and it always seems strange to me how (most) people think that if we need this or that functionality in software, it either takes no time at all to implement (we software devs just wave our magic wand) or that there is always enough man-hours available to do it (because the dev first developed a time machine before 'this' product).

Funny enough this notion seems to only apply to software, every other technology we understand that making something takes (sometimes a lot of) time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by poetnprophet View Post
when your product or service touches so many people who rely on it and usually want the best for it in terms of features, there should be more consideration of those needs.
WHY?

When you buy a product, you buy it in the state it is right then and there. You don't buy some kind of right to the dev taking into consideration everything you want it to be AFTER you have bought it. If, at any point in time, you decide to buy a product, you buy it because it works for you. If it doesn't work for you then why would you buy it. To buy it because you think the dev will add stuff in the (near) future that will make it work for you is silly because you have no assurance the dev will do that, other then your unfounded belief the dev will do so because 'they should take my needs into consideration'.

When I bought reaper (some 10 years ago), I bought it because it would work for me back then. It still does but I've got a whole lot of additional features over time that makes working with reaper even more fun then it did back then. I'm simply thankful that Justin is still developing reaper and keeps making it better. Do I feel some need for him doing that for me as a customer... absolutely not. As a software dev I do get that feature requests can make a product better (or worse, that happens too), but that does not mean that reaper in its current state shouldn't cater for your needs already, or else why use it at all.

[/rant]
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Old 11-06-2019, 07:58 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poetnprophet View Post
... I was pretty disappointed when Justin says that, for new features and/or bug fixes, his thought process to evaluate if they will get implemented depended largely on whether he will personally find the feature useful ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by poetnprophet View Post
When your product or service touches so many people who rely on it and usually want the best for it in terms of features, there should be more consideration of those needs. It's funny, because the whole time I've been using Reaper (almost 2 years now) I never got that impression, so I was surprised to hear that from him. And I am not sure how much of that he really meant in terms of the way features are evaluated, but i'm just saying it was disappointing to hear.
Yes - this is a misunderstanding of Reaper on your side. We had this already
in the thread about the "potential Reaper roadshow" - if I remember right.

Justin does not primarily develop Reaper in order to reach as many musicians
or customers as possible. Justin does not primarily develop Reaper in order
to impress anybody. No! Justin primarily develops Reaper for his personal
favour.

So Justin is more an artist than a business man. An artist who develops an
artistic DAW which is *his* artwork. His "child". An artist who celebrates
freedom and independence - in contrast to business, marketing and profit
compulsion.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ooh, I am a little appalled by my own declamatory words, but this is how I notice
Justin, John and the genesis of Reaper.
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Old 11-06-2019, 08:57 AM   #25
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But, when your product or service touches so many people who rely on it and usually want the best for it in terms of features, there should be more consideration of those needs.
What technogremlin said... I'm glad it came up because so many misunderstand this, download reaper, then make FRs as if the implementation is owed to them - it is not. It's like any purchase, you are paying for what it is when you download it.
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Old 11-06-2019, 09:15 AM   #26
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FTFY.

Seriously though, it means both in the US. Witness Kyuss' "Thong Song" from 92, where he says "No shoes, just thongs". Not to be confused with Sisqo's more famous "Thong Song" in which he makes the unfortunate descriptor "dumps like a truck", and is definitely talking about underwear/bikini bottoms.
Haha, fair enough, didn't mean to insult thong wearers. It was a funny part of the interview, one of the Australian guys said something like "next time we talk we'll be wearing thongs" followed by awkward silence.
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Old 11-06-2019, 09:56 AM   #27
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Thanks Bunker! good to hear The Justin speak.

Many moons ago I searched for a list of "DAWs of existence" of what's app? (what the heck iz dat? "reaper" ohh-oh, i'm so scared.. *not*) let's give it a go, now how the heck do I change patch of my synth? Rea-whot? elo? did not even know it was the same dev that did Winamp.

Think there was a themeing-boom going on just about after that, good times.

And I remember when MPL started and was a "noob", he might as well join NASA now...

Hope we get to hear our master puppet also sometime, is schwa shy or something?
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Old 11-06-2019, 11:28 AM   #28
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No, it means that available time is always finite and how that resource is spend is obviously subject to a selection process. It has nothing to do with how much time is needed but everything with the needed amount of time in respect to what it will deliver. It's called the 'law of diminishing returns'.

I'm a software dev myself, and it always seems strange to me how (most) people think that if we need this or that functionality in software, it either takes no time at all to implement (we software devs just wave our magic wand) or that there is always enough man-hours available to do it (because the dev first developed a time machine before 'this' product).

Funny enough this notion seems to only apply to software, every other technology we understand that making something takes (sometimes a lot of) time.



WHY?

When you buy a product, you buy it in the state it is right then and there. You don't buy some kind of right to the dev taking into consideration everything you want it to be AFTER you have bought it. If, at any point in time, you decide to buy a product, you buy it because it works for you. If it doesn't work for you then why would you buy it. To buy it because you think the dev will add stuff in the (near) future that will make it work for you is silly because you have no assurance the dev will do that, other then your unfounded belief the dev will do so because 'they should take my needs into consideration'.

When I bought reaper (some 10 years ago), I bought it because it would work for me back then. It still does but I've got a whole lot of additional features over time that makes working with reaper even more fun then it did back then. I'm simply thankful that Justin is still developing reaper and keeps making it better. Do I feel some need for him doing that for me as a customer... absolutely not. As a software dev I do get that feature requests can make a product better (or worse, that happens too), but that does not mean that reaper in its current state shouldn't cater for your needs already, or else why use it at all.

[/rant]
I disagree as much as you missed my point....I'll just leave it at that, call it the law of diminishing returns.
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Old 11-06-2019, 04:32 PM   #29
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this was cool, thanks for sharing. I had no idea Justin was the creator of Winamp, wow!
I thought everyone knew that or maybe I'm just now showing my age?

Do you also know "REAPER" is an acronym and do you know what it is? <wink wink>
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Old 11-07-2019, 05:22 AM   #30
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Always nice to hear Justin :P


I hope we will have a Schwa interview someday !
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Old 11-08-2019, 02:27 PM   #31
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Hey All,

Thanks for the feedback, happy to hear you enjoyed the show.

I had a great time chatting to Justin, and we made a loose promise to reconvene and revisit the topics again, maybe the release of V6.0 will be the catalyst :-)

Oh, and yes thongs in Australia are what in the US you would call , flip flops , and to be honest I didn't even click that I could be suggesting that I would be wearing a thin stringed piece of underwear, but now in hindsight I understand why Justin went a little quiet , LOL !!

Re Schwa , how knows, maybe I can coax him on for the next one :-)

Peace and Out
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Old 11-08-2019, 03:39 PM   #32
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I hope we will have a Schwa interview someday !
Legend has it nobody has heard him speak, not for real anyways...
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Old 11-08-2019, 05:07 PM   #33
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I thought everyone knew that or maybe I'm just now showing my age?

Do you also know "REAPER" is an acronym and do you know what it is? <wink wink>
haha, well I'm not young, I remember when winamp came out and was included in one of the PC mags I subscribed to at the time. Also got my first copy of Cakewalk Pro Audio 3 and Fruity Loops about the same time....digress. The whole llama thing, that was insightful though!

yes, I know the acronym...but i didn't know that the meaning came AFTER the acronym was created....that's hella funny
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Old 11-08-2019, 05:12 PM   #34
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Legend has it nobody has heard him speak, not for real anyways...
the developer version of the Stig!
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Old 11-08-2019, 05:15 PM   #35
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I always assumed that Justin was a diehard Windows user, up until the mac version starting receiving significant attention, which seemed to bring OSX into his sights more frequently.
Well, he obviously was in the WinAmp days.

Note that he said "Linux and OSX," in that order. I'm not an Apple fan at all, but I do like that OSX is based on Berkley Unix, and you can still open a terminal window and run familiar (to me, anyway) commands. I'm a Windows user but a Linux fan.
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Old 11-08-2019, 06:40 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgemeal View Post
You can test it yourself, Open Actions, search for and run, "[developer] Debug console", in that window enter "tls_avail" at the bottom and click run button.

my results,
Code:
Win10 Pro 1903 [Version 10.0.18362.267]
TLS slots available: 1017
FLS slots available: 4065

Win10 Pro 1809 [Version 10.0.17763.615]
TLS slots available: 1017
FLS slots available: 113

Thanks for this! I had read that 1903 increased the FLS count to several thousand, but when I upgraded to 1903, the "FLS Checker" VST I found on the internet only showed a mild increase (from maybe 60 to 128).

I just assumed that Windows had scaled back the number of FLS slots they actually made available, and 1903 didn't live up to the hype. Now I see that there are over 4000 FLS slots, and it looks like the VST is just not reporting them correctly.

As a person who was constantly running up against the FLS limit, I am very happy to see there are plenty now!
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Last edited by lunker; 11-08-2019 at 06:53 PM.
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Old 11-08-2019, 06:47 PM   #37
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the developer version of the Stig!
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Old 11-08-2019, 06:50 PM   #38
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My, what big eyes you have!
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Old 11-09-2019, 08:51 AM   #39
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That was a great interview with a lot of interesting insights.

I was impressed that Justin immediately recognized that people who stuck with Reaper would eventually sing its praises was a form of selection bias. He seemed to be quite aware of Reaper's rough edges, which is at least a necessary condition to fixing them.

I was also happy to see Reaticulate get an honorable mention. Ok, it wasn't remotely on Justin's radar, but maybe it will be now.
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Old 11-09-2019, 01:41 PM   #40
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Legend has it nobody has heard him speak, not for real anyways...
Ohh great, you gave Schwa the best plausible excuse ever! now
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