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Old 07-21-2018, 01:28 AM   #1
shosty
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Default Looking for methods to create drums

I spent the last five years or so making music in renoise and have come to love the workflow, especially as it is essentially a big sampler and layering is very simple and easy. I tried to make a song in reaper recently but I found it very clunky and awkward to make drums.

Which samplers do you use? I tried with the built in one but didn't like it particularly. I would prefer to have all drums loaded in one sampler with each being output to its own track, and one lane of midi to trigger them. When I tried with the built in sampler I set it up so each sampler is on its on track limited to just one note and one midi track sending midi to all the sampler tracks. This wasn't ideal, it was a hassle setting up a new drum sound and just generally felt inefficient.

I've just realised that there is a multisampler in the LSP plugins which looks like it could be perfect, it has tons of instrument slots and each one has sub-slots so that should take care of layering.

I don't make rock based music so drumgizmo isn't very well suited.

What's your drum workflow and what samplers do you use, and how do you set it up?
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Old 07-21-2018, 02:58 AM   #2
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Take a look at these two videos

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RJD7aNzSmO8
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EFbXBCutQAw

It's also possible to route all the instruments from ReaSampler to separate tracks.
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Old 07-21-2018, 07:02 AM   #3
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Maybe this is silly but did you try redux ?
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Old 07-21-2018, 07:25 AM   #4
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Maybe this is silly but did you try redux ?
It's a sensible suggestion but I haven't tried it. I'm sure it would be the best solution but I'm uncertain about purchasing it as I already own renoise and could just use that instead. I'm not trying to get away from renoise, I still love it, but wanted to see what it was like using a more linear piano roll based daw again.

I suppose I could use renoise and reaper at the same time and have one as the time master, will have to test that soon.
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Old 07-21-2018, 12:15 PM   #5
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Maybe this is silly but did you try redux ?
Does it work for you? Can you put notes with the keyboard into the pattern editor?
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Old 07-21-2018, 12:39 PM   #6
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Take a look at these two videos

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RJD7aNzSmO8
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EFbXBCutQAw

It's also possible to route all the instruments from ReaSampler to separate tracks.
adding to this list, MPL's RS5K manager is essential if you want to build drum kits without disrupting flow.

https://reaperblog.net/2018/06/rs5k-manager/

edit - just realized this is the linux specific forum, and those scripts might not be available yet for you
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Old 07-21-2018, 04:15 PM   #7
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Looks pretty cool and useful!

It also seems to work in Linux Just have to figure out how to trigger the pads.
edit: ...and I think this is where the problem comes in ... maybe not (fully) compatible with Linux yet.


Last edited by lilith93; 07-21-2018 at 04:27 PM.
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Old 07-21-2018, 05:44 PM   #8
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Does it work for you? Can you put notes with the keyboard into the pattern editor?
Nope, I have the same problems with keyboard input but I somehow really dig the Renoise sampler and besides that Redux has no problem with midi input. I use Redux in combination with hackey tracky (https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=202382) and it comes somewhat close to that fun Renoise workflow.
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Old 07-21-2018, 05:46 PM   #9
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Looks pretty cool and useful!

It also seems to work in Linux Just have to figure out how to trigger the pads.
edit: ...and I think this is where the problem comes in ... maybe not (fully) compatible with Linux yet.

I've tested MPLs script too but I have some problems with performance and gui offset I can't really narrow down. I did get the pads to work though.
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Old 07-21-2018, 07:36 PM   #10
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Nope, I have the same problems with keyboard input but I somehow really dig the Renoise sampler and besides that Redux has no problem with midi input. I use Redux in combination with hackey tracky (https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=202382) and it comes somewhat close to that fun Renoise workflow.
thank you for this! it's fantastic

Also I don't have this issues you mention with Redux, I can use it perfectly, even the searchboxes work... I don't know how to help you though, any pointers?
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Old 07-22-2018, 01:30 AM   #11
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I've tested MPLs script too but I have some problems with performance and gui offset I can't really narrow down. I did get the pads to work though.
Yeah, I've tried it as well and it sort of works but the gui doesn't seem quite right.
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Old 07-22-2018, 08:32 AM   #12
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What's your drum workflow and what samplers do you use, and how do you set it up?

^lolz-- i could yak on about that for a while but will spare u details because there is sooo many ways it can be done itb.
1 interesting way i found more recently was the ability to play drums with markers and take systems..
the idea is.. you insert 10markers over a drum beat,or series of hits.. play them of a keyboard trigger --- and record them.
even with static samples,fx can give variances.
user can switch out takes on the fly-for different drum kits etc cet tec. kk.
pretty whacky,but it worx m8+your actually doing the drumming yourself.
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Old 07-22-2018, 08:34 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Nixon View Post
Nope, I have the same problems with keyboard input but I somehow really dig the Renoise sampler and besides that Redux has no problem with midi input. I use Redux in combination with hackey tracky (https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=202382) and it comes somewhat close to that fun Renoise workflow.
How do you use Redux then, with the mouse only? Thanks for the hackey tracky tip... I'll look it up.
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Old 07-22-2018, 09:07 AM   #14
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Will Hydrogen not do this for you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwR1KbX6MZg

https://sourceforge.net/projects/hydrogen/
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Old 07-22-2018, 10:56 AM   #15
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How do you use Redux then, with the mouse only? Thanks for the hackey tracky tip... I'll look it up.
I prepare instruments in Renoise and load them in Redux, besides that i wait patiently to get the keyboard bugs fixed.
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Old 07-22-2018, 11:02 AM   #16
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thank you for this! it's fantastic

Also I don't have this issues you mention with Redux, I can use it perfectly, even the searchboxes work... I don't know how to help you though, any pointers?

Maybe I have an older version. I still use the demo from the homepage but there was a patch which is only available backstage for license holders.
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Old 07-22-2018, 11:22 AM   #17
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^lolz-- i could yak on about that for a while but will spare u details because there is sooo many ways it can be done itb.
1 interesting way i found more recently was the ability to play drums with markers and take systems..
the idea is.. you insert 10markers over a drum beat,or series of hits.. play them of a keyboard trigger --- and record them.
even with static samples,fx can give variances.
user can switch out takes on the fly-for different drum kits etc cet tec. kk.
pretty whacky,but it worx m8+your actually doing the drumming yourself.
That sounds pretty good actually, quite similar to how you can work with loops in renoise. Very interesting approach.
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Old 07-22-2018, 11:27 AM   #18
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I've tried to use hydrogen in the past and I didn't particularly like it. I mean, it's not too bad at all but to me it's an inconvenience having to start it up as well as reaper and gets to be bit of a pain when you want to apply effects to the drums (I know it is possible within Hydrogen). I might give it another try though, I just fired it up and forgot that it offers layers.
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Old 07-22-2018, 12:44 PM   #19
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I honestly did not find anything remotely as good as Renoise for drums on Linux - nothing beats that tracker interface for me.
It just so convenient when it comes to drum layering, phrasing, keyzones, etc.

What I am starting to experiment with are two things:

1. Running Renoise together with Reaper: using Renoise as rhythm machine and for synths, and Reaper for all recorded stuff, like guitars, voice, bass guitar, etc. - and then also using Reaper for mastering.

2. Compose and mix everything in Renoise, then render down the tracks and import them into Reaper, then using Reaper as pure mastering tool.

But I have no real opinion yet, as I just started to get into Reaper.
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Old 07-22-2018, 01:43 PM   #20
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That sounds pretty good actually, quite similar to how you can work with loops in renoise. Very interesting approach.
^heh--tbch-i do not know renoise 1 single bit--my bro played with it years ago though and liked it i think..anyways--time marches on...
as time marched i've played around with a lot of kit itb--but am still sticking firmly with reason.
for me it gives ultimate control,flexibilty,simplicity+creative potentials even more so now--a lot of the native devices got a clever upgrade which made them all sampling units except a few--(dr.octorex not included=strange) but- that was a smarter move from ph i believe.. the flow is very very nice and uncomplicated, until it is made complexicated!. check the nnxt>




^that unit looks and acts really nice for me-- very versatile sampler if 1 can actually be bothered to programme it-- it's exactely the same for all the other modern devices,units--they most all come presetted,but beyond that--the real strengths+powers lay in the user inputs+outputs {imo}


even though the nnxt is great i would still say reason has the wikkedest drum module ¦ kong ¦ >


unit is very powerfull-- it contains both a nn nano+ a nurse rex>> + per pad fx etc-- fuk awesome m8's-- find it hard to be matched tbh.
^ both great for loopers and layering librarians.
but that's not reaper's...sigh---reaper could show strengths in dsp knowledge making an awesomer newer unit__ooh er...

linux?? wtf's that? lolonthefloor.
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Old 07-22-2018, 02:41 PM   #21
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I honestly did not find anything remotely as good as Renoise for drums on Linux - nothing beats that tracker interface for me.
It just so convenient when it comes to drum layering, phrasing, keyzones, etc.

What I am starting to experiment with are two things:

1. Running Renoise together with Reaper: using Renoise as rhythm machine and for synths, and Reaper for all recorded stuff, like guitars, voice, bass guitar, etc. - and then also using Reaper for mastering.

2. Compose and mix everything in Renoise, then render down the tracks and import them into Reaper, then using Reaper as pure mastering tool.

But I have no real opinion yet, as I just started to get into Reaper.
Yeah same here. The problem I have is that I tend to group things in renoise so it becomes difficult to export each track to mix in reaper. I have lots of vocals files to edit and mix so I have to use something like reaper/ardour though so perhaps option 1 is best. But then I have tons of processing happening in both so will of course start pushing cpu.

I also thought that writing purely in reaper might be interesting because swing/groove is a bit weird in renoise but I haven't found reaper to be all that much better in that respect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bri1 View Post
^heh--tbch-i do not know renoise 1 single bit--my bro played with it years ago though and liked it i think..anyways--time marches on...
as time marched i've played around with a lot of kit itb--but am still sticking firmly with reason.
for me it gives ultimate control,flexibilty,simplicity+creative potentials even more so now--a lot of the native devices got a clever upgrade which made them all sampling units except a few--(dr.octorex not included=strange) but- that was a smarter move from ph i believe.. the flow is very very nice and uncomplicated, until it is made complexicated!. check the nnxt>


^that unit looks and acts really nice for me-- very versatile sampler if 1 can actually be bothered to programme it-- it's exactely the same for all the other modern devices,units--they most all come presetted,but beyond that--the real strengths+powers lay in the user inputs+outputs {imo}


even though the nnxt is great i would still say reason has the wikkedest drum module ¦ kong ¦ >

unit is very powerfull-- it contains both a nn nano+ a nurse rex>> + per pad fx etc-- fuk awesome m8's-- find it hard to be matched tbh.
^ both great for loopers and layering librarians.
but that's not reaper's...sigh---reaper could show strengths in dsp knowledge making an awesomer newer unit__ooh er...

linux?? wtf's that? lolonthefloor.
I started making computer based music with reason v1 so I can appreciate how good it is. I think I moved to ableton at about reason v3 or v4 but so I don't know if I would use reason if I were to write music in windows. Reason was always amazing for the soundsets it had and the great gui and routing possibilities but for me ableton was much more valuable for the fact that you could play the composition but also mix/edit it in a linear fashion. It's not really an option for me now though, I would definitely consider it if they made a linux version but I'm not prepared to move to windows. For us linux users Reaper is a massive win but perhaps with that and bitwig it will make other companies consider it more seriously. Admittedly, we are still behind windows in terms of choices but the gap is closing all the time and for me the gains that windows has are not worth it, especially when I am so comfortable in renoise - I would probably still use it even if I had the choice of linux native reason and ableton.
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Old 07-22-2018, 03:05 PM   #22
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^yis--it seems the devs also have a favour towards linux for some better reasoning..i can see how it could be an efficent system if embraced by more users and made more friendly and useable--dunno..
again cockos literally could have their own hand crafted dsp music only system--who knows what appears on the eventuals horizons!!
we reach a tipping point in knowledge,culture and tech,which is exciting for me...we...heheh.
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Old 07-28-2018, 09:07 AM   #23
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especially when I am so comfortable in renoise - I would probably still use it even if I had the choice of linux native reason and ableton.
I bought Redux today!
Redux + Reaper = <3
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Old 07-28-2018, 02:49 PM   #24
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Default Hydrogen in Reaper

I am also looking for drum software in linux to use in Reaper. I found that Linux Mint had both DrumGizmo and Hydrogen in the repositories. However, though Drum Gizmo would install, it would not run. Nothing happened. Hydrogen installed and runs as a standalone (reminds me of ancient FruityLoops). However, how do you use Hydrogen with Reaper? It doesn't seem to be a plugin. Is there a way to synch it? Or do you have to save as a wav and and import it?

thanks
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Old 07-28-2018, 02:55 PM   #25
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DrumGizmo itself has no sounds. You need to load a kit made in its format (XML files and audio files in folders). Then it'll be able to produce sound. Send MIDI to it, it'll output on multiple channels. You'll have to set up multiple channels in the DAW, up to 16 of them, from DrumGizmo.
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Old 07-28-2018, 03:20 PM   #26
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DrumGizmo itself has no sounds. You need to load a kit made in its format (XML files and audio files in folders). Then it'll be able to produce sound. Send MIDI to it, it'll output on multiple channels. You'll have to set up multiple channels in the DAW, up to 16 of them, from DrumGizmo.
Actually, it wouldn't even load. And it didn't appear in any menus. In Mint, after you install something in the software manager, you get a new menu that says "Launch" and "Remove." "Launch" did nothing and I had to reboot before "Remove" would work. Something was definitely munged. I tried installing again, and got the same result.
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Old 07-29-2018, 12:20 AM   #27
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For DrumGizmo, you have to download drumkits here :
https://www.drumgizmo.org/wiki/doku.php?id=kits then launch it
in a terminal with the path of the drumkit, as mentionned here :
https://www.drumgizmo.org/wiki/doku.php?id=cli-howto.

You can use also Hydrogen drumkits with DrMr plugin
(https://github.com/nicklan/drmr.
Or use Hydrogen as Jack master with Reaper as slave.
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Old 07-29-2018, 12:54 AM   #28
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What's your drum workflow and what samplers do you use, and how do you set it up?
As someone who came from a DAW with native step sequencer and sampler, I asked myself the same for several years. If the goal is using a vanilla Reaper with little else (say, on Raspberry Pi). Reaper's piano roll is already a powerful enough step sequencer, so I wrote a script that converts MIDI notes to REAPER items. Includes basic sample mapping. Link/Doc is in the signature.


(Apologies for shameless self-promotion.)

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Old 07-29-2018, 12:55 AM   #29
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I'm just going to use DrumGizmo as a plugin in Reaper, not as a standalone application. I don't want to have anything "outside Reaper" and using JACK etc.
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Old 07-29-2018, 01:39 AM   #30
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I'm just going to use DrumGizmo as a plugin in Reaper, not as a standalone application. I don't want to have anything "outside Reaper" and using JACK etc.
You can use DrumGizmo lv2 loaded in CarlaVST (Carla patchbay 16) and assigne every DG's output to Carla outputs.

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Old 07-29-2018, 01:59 AM   #31
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I've heard DrumGizmo is compiled in kxstudio as a Linux VST. I'll see if that works first after getting Ubuntu Studio installed. The less wrapper-based stuff I use, the better.
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Old 07-29-2018, 11:37 AM   #32
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I've heard DrumGizmo is compiled in kxstudio as a Linux VST.
Yes that's right, tried it a couple of days ago and it works great as VST. Make sure to set high enough audio buffer size to get rid of dropouts and crackles.
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Old 07-29-2018, 11:53 AM   #33
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Yes that's right, tried it a couple of days ago and it works great as VST. Make sure to set high enough audio buffer size to get rid of dropouts and crackles.
I have no problem with dropouts and crackles in Windows 7 using one of my lowest buffer settings. Then again I am using a drum kit which doesn't have each audio sample being a 13 to 16 channel WAV file as some of those kits on the drum Gizmo site are. The kits I am making don't have extra bleed channels, so that cuts the WAV files down to 4 to 7 channels each depending on the kit piece. The mixer still requires 16 channels, but there isn't bleed from each kit piece into every other mic.
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Old 08-08-2018, 01:52 AM   #34
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Make sure to set high enough audio buffer size to get rid of dropouts and crackles.
Probably you had to choose the buffer size that high because the resampler is enabled (meaning, the drumkit samplerate does not match the reaper session samplerate). At least that was the biggest CPU bottleneck by far.

Fortunately, we got our hands dirty and in the next release 0.9.16 (which should come soon) the resampler will work significantly more efficient and thus you should also be able to lower the buffer size quite a bit.
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Old 08-08-2018, 02:11 AM   #35
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Hi chaot4, nice to see you here.
Thanks for Drumgizmo, it rocks !
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Old 08-09-2018, 02:02 PM   #36
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Matbe this is worth looking at to get drum kit samples into reaper:

http://www.theleapyear.com/space/Rea...erTutorial.pdf
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Old 08-12-2018, 02:49 PM   #37
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I am also looking for drum software in linux to use in Reaper. I found that Linux Mint had both DrumGizmo and Hydrogen in the repositories. However, though Drum Gizmo would install, it would not run. Nothing happened. Hydrogen installed and runs as a standalone (reminds me of ancient FruityLoops). However, how do you use Hydrogen with Reaper? It doesn't seem to be a plugin. Is there a way to synch it? Or do you have to save as a wav and and import it?

thanks
Make a reaper stereo audio track
start hydrogen, load a beat, but turn down the mixer for luck
disconnect hydrogen audio from your system audio input in your patchbay, qjackctl, patchage etc
connect Hydrogen audio out to Reaper main input, and arm the audio track
to monitor/record

This will apply to most any linux standalone, or win standalone
that works via wine, so linux sampler can be put to use with wav loops,
RNC's drum sampler, drumgizmo etc
The Zampler sfz player has some excellent kits, Waldorf etc
Reaper's seqbaby should also be available, a nice youtube exists for it.
Good luck
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Old 11-02-2018, 03:58 PM   #38
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Default DrumGizmo works!

I finally got DrumGizmo working. First I had to get the KXStudio repositories installed through Synaptic, which Linux Mint already has installed. Then I installed DrumGizmo from KXStudio, and Reaper could see it. Then I downloaded the DRSkit from the DrumGizmo (which took more than a day, it's 2.6 gigs and they must not have much bandwidth). I got this installed where DrumGizmo could see it (the UI is not all that intuitive). Then I loaded a loop and it works!

Pretty much all the necessary info is in this thread. It just took me a long while to process it all. At several points I was about to ask about something here, but in formulating my question I found a clue and figured it out. That has pretty much been what it is like moving over to Linux. It's been an adventure.

Thanks!
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Old 11-02-2018, 06:40 PM   #39
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Glad it worked!

I will be releasing some drum kits soon. I have to sort through the samples again though, testing each "round robin" layer to see if any sound too inconsistent (then I'm removing those). These kits have 15 velocity layers and up to 4 round robins, so it's a bit much. Pruning some of them won't matter much and it'll save on file size. I've already found some "outlier" round robin layers which were a bit too different sounding for my liking, so I'm going ahead with that plan.

After they're all tested and I've edited the XML files where I need to, then I can finish making the final "kit" XML files.

I'd ultimately prefer for the next version of DrumGizmo to be released before I release these kits though, since currently DrumGizmo doesn't round robin properly. (When an updated version of DrumGizmo is released, I'd have to edit a bunch of my XML files so DrumGizmo will properly do round robin with the kits, then re-upload those XML files with instructions on what to replace and where.)
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Old 11-03-2018, 07:06 AM   #40
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In the latest RS5K manager builds it is possible to change font size.
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