Old 07-25-2019, 08:52 PM   #41
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When saving a project with "Move all media to project directory" ticked, while still having the Melodyne window open, Reaper gets stuck at the save progression box until the Melodyne window gets closed.

I guess this is expected behavior (or maybe it's just happening to me) but anyway I just wanted to make sure.
Are you also having issues with corrupted Melodyne "documents"?

Or is this the lone issue that Melodyne causes for you?
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Old 07-26-2019, 03:15 AM   #42
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Are you also having issues with corrupted Melodyne "documents"?

Or is this the lone issue that Melodyne causes for you?
I tried some of the steps mentioned in this thread but I couldn't reproduce them. I run a portable install FWIW.

One thing I have noticed is that Melodyne is just really sensitive for me in general.
Like sometimes I do something to the audio (not sure what exactly) that causes it to re-analyze the file and then it's suddently reset back to zero in the plugin, with no way to undo back to previous settings. Maybe it's just user-error and how Melodyne works, but I still don't feel 100% confident working with it.

I'll try to see what causes this and report back.

Edit: Argh, just now when I ran a script ("mpl_smart duplicate items") it deleted the audio item using Melodyne (which was on a completely different track to the one I was duplicating) which forced Melodyne to re-analyze and reset to default. I'll probably stay away from that script for now lol.


Last edited by puddi; 07-26-2019 at 03:53 AM.
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Old 07-26-2019, 05:11 AM   #43
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Its beta ware in Reaper sadly.
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Old 07-28-2019, 02:44 AM   #44
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Should media buffering or anticipative fx rendering or both be disabled on tracks with ARA 2 Melodyne?

Is it possible that something is happening there?
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Old 07-29-2019, 10:32 PM   #45
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Default I FOUND... SOMETHING?!?!

I'm chasing some things down here with the ol Melodyne problems.

After experimenting "save as" does not corrupt the melodyne file

"save" or "save" as an action corrupts the file.

I start to look at how my preferences ( therefore my config ) could be different than anyone else's.

Under REAPER Preferences/Project/Project saving

I unselected "save project file references with relative pathnames"

SO FAR I have been able to use a regular "save" or "save" action and be able to reopen without problems.
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Old 07-29-2019, 10:50 PM   #46
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Default Melodyne seems fixed on my machine!

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Originally Posted by Chris7t6 View Post
I'm chasing some things down here with the ol Melodyne problems.

After experimenting "save as" does not corrupt the melodyne file

"save" or "save" as an action corrupts the file.

I start to look at how my preferences ( therefore my config ) could be different than anyone else's.

Under REAPER Preferences/Project/Project saving


I unselected "save project file references with relative pathnames"

SO FAR I have been able to use a regular "save" or "save" action and be able to reopen without problems.
SO FAR THIS IS WORKING! Somebody else please try and tell me if i'm crazy!

I’ve also turned on “save minimal undo states” and everything is running quick and clean.

This did it for me!!!.PNG

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Old 07-30-2019, 10:45 AM   #47
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SO FAR THIS IS WORKING! Somebody else please try and tell me if i'm crazy!

I’ve also turned on “save minimal undo states” and everything is running quick and clean.

Attachment 37187
So does this mean you can't move your projects now? ie, you send someone the project, and it will be referencing c:\Users\chris7t6\Reaper Media\ProjectFolder\hihat.wav rather than .\hihat.wav ?

All the power to you if this fixed it ! Just wondering what the effects are.
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Old 07-30-2019, 11:13 AM   #48
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So does this mean you can't move your projects now? ie, you send someone the project, and it will be referencing c:\Users\chris7t6\Reaper Media\ProjectFolder\hihat.wav rather than .\hihat.wav ?

All the power to you if this fixed it ! Just wondering what the effects are.
Honestly... I don't know. I'll try moving one and see what happens.

Maybe someone from the development team can chime in on the effects of this.

I'm just super excited I can at least work on my projects here at my place without them being corrupt!
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Old 07-30-2019, 11:22 AM   #49
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So does this mean you can't move your projects now? ie, you send someone the project, and it will be referencing c:\Users\chris7t6\Reaper Media\ProjectFolder\hihat.wav rather than .\hihat.wav ?

All the power to you if this fixed it ! Just wondering what the effects are.
Ferropop, I just relocated my project to a different drive and folder vi save as new project and... BOOM, it's all there. It copied the files over, rebuilt the peaks, the whole 9 yards. I even named the project something ridiculous.

This has absolutely worked to fix Melodyne for me. This is day 3.
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Old 07-30-2019, 03:27 PM   #50
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Ferropop, I just relocated my project to a different drive and folder vi save as new project and... BOOM, it's all there. It copied the files over, rebuilt the peaks, the whole 9 yards. I even named the project something ridiculous.

This has absolutely worked to fix Melodyne for me. This is day 3.
Your posts were very inspiring. I ran a few tests and managed to get corrupted files, especially when adding a plugin after melodyne in the fx chain.

As .rpp files are text files, I noticed that some parts of the file under the section "com.celemony.ara.chunk.7" are modified almost at each save, even though melodyne is not changed. But I know nothing of the inner workings of ARA, so it may be perfectly normal behaviour.

Then I followed your suggestion and disabled the relative paths setting in prefs.

I have not managed to get a corrupted file since. Fingers crossed...

Congrats for trying it, I do hope it fixes the issue!

Best,
p@T
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Old 07-30-2019, 05:28 PM   #51
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Your posts were very inspiring. I ran a few tests and managed to get corrupted files, especially when adding a plugin after melodyne in the fx chain.

As .rpp files are text files, I noticed that some parts of the file under the section "com.celemony.ara.chunk.7" are modified almost at each save, even though melodyne is not changed. But I know nothing of the inner workings of ARA, so it may be perfectly normal behaviour.

Then I followed your suggestion and disabled the relative paths setting in prefs.

I have not managed to get a corrupted file since. Fingers crossed...

Congrats for trying it, I do hope it fixes the issue!

Best,
p@T
Thankyou for posting.

Iím trying not to get too excited....

But Iím pretty excited.
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Old 07-31-2019, 02:32 AM   #52
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Thankyou for posting.

I’m trying not to get too excited....

But I’m pretty excited.
Be careful with "ctrl + Z" on an Item move or an item start/end adjustment. Basically anything that has to do with position. You can manually move the item back but if you try to undo the move, you will probly see "ARA analysis" and if you see that it's too late.Maybe grab the last RPP. BAK. file and move on.

I do wish it wasn't as volatile as it currently is BUT we're getting somewhere!!
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Old 07-31-2019, 06:31 AM   #53
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Be careful with "ctrl + Z" on an Item move or an item start/end adjustment. Basically anything that has to do with position. You can manually move the item back but if you try to undo the move, you will probly see "ARA analysis" and if you see that it's too late.Maybe grab the last RPP. BAK. file and move on.

I do wish it wasn't as volatile as it currently is BUT we're getting somewhere!!
I'm assuming that's with "minimal undo states" enabled? I haven't really tried with it disabled since Melodyne recommends leaving it on:


"For this reason, we recommend you to check (i.e. select) the option shown. Admittedly this prevents you undoing Melodyne editing steps from within Reaper, but you can still undo them from within Melodyne. The time-consuming transfer of data to Reaper is thereby avoided, which makes working with Melodyne considerably more fluid and agreeable."

Not sure if I think it's considerably more agreeable when all my Melodyne edits suddenly goes *poof* on a random undo in Reaper lol. Have you tried working with it turned off? Is it worth it? (Not at the computer right now so I can't try it myself)
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Old 07-31-2019, 10:35 AM   #54
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@Schwa @Justin any ideas about the Relative Path option? This is almost exactly the same issue I was noticing -- Save As or Save As New Project would retain edits, but the second you'd Save it would corrupt.
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Old 07-31-2019, 12:39 PM   #55
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I'm assuming that's with "minimal undo states" enabled? I haven't really tried with it disabled since Melodyne recommends leaving it on:


"For this reason, we recommend you to check (i.e. select) the option shown. Admittedly this prevents you undoing Melodyne editing steps from within Reaper, but you can still undo them from within Melodyne. The time-consuming transfer of data to Reaper is thereby avoided, which makes working with Melodyne considerably more fluid and agreeable."

Not sure if I think it's considerably more agreeable when all my Melodyne edits suddenly goes *poof* on a random undo in Reaper lol. Have you tried working with it turned off? Is it worth it? (Not at the computer right now so I can't try it myself)
Well... It used to SEEM random. It's not random anymore. Now that I know what the issue is I'm trying to just change my behavior until it's corrected.
Yes. I'm working with save minimal ON. Yes there might be the occasional glitch if I forget BUT on my machine I just cant work with ara pausing things and saving all of the time. It's like a crippled system at that point. So, I just chose to be more careful for now. and it also ONLY resets the particular track you undid NOT all melodyne edits ( that behavior really confused me for a while ). I couldn't understand why some things stayed.
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Old 07-31-2019, 09:33 PM   #56
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Default NEW MELODYNE FINDINGS

"ctrl + Z"/ "Undo" do not reset melodyne when it is used as a TAKE fx..

Undo functions only corrupt Melodyne when it is used as a track fx.

Devs?? What does this mean??

What's happening with "undo"??
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Old 07-31-2019, 10:58 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Chris7t6 View Post
"ctrl + Z"/ "Undo" do not reset melodyne when it is used as a TAKE fx..

Undo functions only corrupt Melodyne when it is used as a track fx.

Devs?? What does this mean??

What's happening with "undo"??
Quote:
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Well... It used to SEEM random. It's not random anymore. Now that I know what the issue is I'm trying to just change my behavior until it's corrected.
Yes. I'm working with save minimal ON. Yes there might be the occasional glitch if I forget BUT on my machine I just cant work with ara pausing things and saving all of the time. It's like a crippled system at that point. So, I just chose to be more careful for now. and it also ONLY resets the particular track you undid NOT all melodyne edits ( that behavior really confused me for a while ). I couldn't understand why some things stayed.
So... I've kind of fallen in love with a new way to use melodyne because of all this.

Today I've been trying Melodyne as a TAKE FX.

FIRST: It doesn't suffer from the dreaded "undo reset".

SECOND: It behaves exactly as it should. It sees all the other tracks. There's no editing difference.

I really really like this alot.

I had no idea it would work so well.

I highly recommend using ARA 2 Melodyne as a TAKE FX.

Super cool.
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Old 08-01-2019, 05:53 AM   #58
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So... I've kind of fallen in love with a new way to use melodyne because of all this.

Today I've been trying Melodyne as a TAKE FX.

FIRST: It doesn't suffer from the dreaded "undo reset".

SECOND: It behaves exactly as it should. It sees all the other tracks. There's no editing difference.

I really really like this alot.

I had no idea it would work so well.

I highly recommend using ARA 2 Melodyne as a TAKE FX.

Super cool.
Ahh, I guess that's why ARA Melodyne only works as a take FX in Studio One for example. Presonus probably ran in to the same difficulties.
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Old 08-01-2019, 07:17 AM   #59
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v5.981+dev0801 - August 1 2019
+ ARA: disable undo integration (should improve stability)
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Old 08-01-2019, 07:19 AM   #60
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v5.981+dev0801 - August 1 2019
+ ARA: disable undo integration (should improve stability)
Yes, please try the new prerelease build!
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Old 08-01-2019, 09:47 PM   #61
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Yes, please try the new prerelease build!
Still getting the dreaded "way-too-undu" when using undo with Melodyne as an insert.

The application's absolutely kick ass together with Melodyne as a take fx though.

Never goin back.

Last edited by Chris7t6; 08-02-2019 at 12:04 AM.
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Old 08-02-2019, 06:34 AM   #62
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Could you please give a really simple set of steps to reproduce this, starting from an empty project, and specifying whether you are undoing within REAPER or within the Melodyne editor?
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Old 08-02-2019, 08:45 AM   #63
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Could you please give a really simple set of steps to reproduce this, starting from an empty project, and specifying whether you are undoing within REAPER or within the Melodyne editor?
It seems to work better for me in many cases, but I'm still getting the ARA Analysis window on some undo's. I don't know if that's just how Melodyne works but there are the steps to reproduce it:

Insert an audio file, make some edit to it in Melodyne, close Melodyne window, move audio file forward (it should play back correctly from the new position), then undo that move with the Undo command. That should move the item back to the previous position, bring up the ARA Analysis window and reset the edit back to default.
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Old 08-02-2019, 09:15 AM   #64
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I am not seeing the resetting behavior using dev0801 or dev0802. If you click the "+" button on the plugin UI frame and open "Compatibility settings," are "Save minimal undo states" and "Avoid loading undo states when possible" grayed out?
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Old 08-02-2019, 11:10 AM   #65
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I am not seeing the resetting behavior using dev0801 or dev0802. If you click the "+" button on the plugin UI frame and open "Compatibility settings," are "Save minimal undo states" and "Avoid loading undo states when possible" grayed out?
Yes-sir! They are grayed out.

I record a synth as audio. Throw melodyne on the track. It analyses. Everything looks good.

Move it. Everything moves.

Press ctrl + z or undo from menu.

It all moves back but immediately wipes the tuning settings and begins to analyze over again.
Attached Images
File Type: gif CANTUNDO.gif (984 Bytes, 109 views)

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Old 08-02-2019, 11:34 AM   #66
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I think you need to post that gif to stash.reaper.fm and link to it for the animation to be visible.

Regardless, I can't reproduce using these steps. Could you please send a very simple project and your reaper.ini file to support at cockos?

Last edited by schwa; 08-02-2019 at 03:11 PM.
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Old 08-02-2019, 03:19 PM   #67
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I think you need to post that gif to stash.reaper.fm and link to it for the animation to be visible.

Regardless, I can't reproduce using these steps. Could you please send a very simple project and your reaper.ini file to support at cockos?
Yes. I certainly can.
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Old 08-03-2019, 08:54 AM   #68
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I am not seeing the resetting behavior using dev0801 or dev0802. If you click the "+" button on the plugin UI frame and open "Compatibility settings," are "Save minimal undo states" and "Avoid loading undo states when possible" grayed out?
Yes, both are grayed out. I've experimented a bit more and found something interesting which consistently works for me.

If I open a blank project, add a new audio item to the start of the project, edit it in Melodyne, move it forward and then Undo that move I get the re-analysis box and Melodyne resets itself.

But...

If I don't undo it after the first move, but move it forward one more time and then hit undo it moves it back without resetting. If I then hit undo again (which puts it back to the start of the project) Melodyne resets.

So it's like the absolute first undo point resets Melodyne back to zero, but everything after that works fine. If that makes any sense.

@Chris7t6, could you try this?

Edit: It also seems to work if I just move the item one time before I begin editing it in Melodyne. After that I can move it around and undo without Melodyne resetting itself. With this knowledge it doesn't seem so random anymore and I can easily work around it.

Last edited by puddi; 08-03-2019 at 09:04 AM.
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Old 08-03-2019, 09:58 AM   #69
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So glad everyone's chiming in on ARA in Reaper, let's get this thing rock-solid - it's SUCH a better way to use Melodyne when it's working reliably, and also one step from hell when it's not haha.
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Old 08-03-2019, 11:07 AM   #70
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Yes, both are grayed out. I've experimented a bit more and found something interesting which consistently works for me.

If I open a blank project, add a new audio item to the start of the project, edit it in Melodyne, move it forward and then Undo that move I get the re-analysis box and Melodyne resets itself.

But...

If I don't undo it after the first move, but move it forward one more time and then hit undo it moves it back without resetting. If I then hit undo again (which puts it back to the start of the project) Melodyne resets.

So it's like the absolute first undo point resets Melodyne back to zero, but everything after that works fine. If that makes any sense.

@Chris7t6, could you try this?

Edit: It also seems to work if I just move the item one time before I begin editing it in Melodyne. After that I can move it around and undo without Melodyne resetting itself. With this knowledge it doesn't seem so random anymore and I can easily work around it.
Puddi.

This behavior is confirmed on my system! Every step.

Good work!

Is there a way to omit the initial state of melodyne from the undo history??
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Old 08-04-2019, 09:10 PM   #71
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Yes, both are grayed out. I've experimented a bit more and found something interesting which consistently works for me.

If I open a blank project, add a new audio item to the start of the project, edit it in Melodyne, move it forward and then Undo that move I get the re-analysis box and Melodyne resets itself.

But...

If I don't undo it after the first move, but move it forward one more time and then hit undo it moves it back without resetting. If I then hit undo again (which puts it back to the start of the project) Melodyne resets.

So it's like the absolute first undo point resets Melodyne back to zero, but everything after that works fine. If that makes any sense.

@Chris7t6, could you try this?

Edit: It also seems to work if I just move the item one time before I begin editing it in Melodyne. After that I can move it around and undo without Melodyne resetting itself. With this knowledge it doesn't seem so random anymore and I can easily work around it.
So everything ( with the exception of Melodyne undoing itself too far ) is running really really well.

I just wrote an action that inserts melodyne on the track and then moves all the items a bit forward then the same bit back. It's taken care of this last issue we still have. I wrote this after Puddi's posted observations!
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Old 08-05-2019, 05:49 AM   #72
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I'm glad things are working better for people with the latest dev builds. The basic problem is that Melodyne has a complex internal undo state, and REAPER also has an undo state, and if those ever get out of sync, Melodyne just gives up and discards all edits. So in the latest builds, REAPER just ignores Melodyne's undo state completely. When you undo, from Melodyne's perspective, it's the same as if you had made a new edit that just happens to be the reverse of the previous edit.

Because Melodyne's internal undo state is no longer tracked by REAPER, when you insert Melodyne and then make some plugin edits, REAPER still thinks the previous action was inserting Melodyne. That's why undoing in REAPER then discards the plugin edits. Your "trick" of making some REAPER edits immediately after inserting Melodyne doesn't really change this, it just adds a couple more undo points -- if you undo past those, Melodyne will still reset. I can't think of anything we could do about this on our side.
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Old 08-05-2019, 06:31 AM   #73
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I'm glad things are working better for people with the latest dev builds. The basic problem is that Melodyne has a complex internal undo state, and REAPER also has an undo state, and if those ever get out of sync, Melodyne just gives up and discards all edits. So in the latest builds, REAPER just ignores Melodyne's undo state completely. When you undo, from Melodyne's perspective, it's the same as if you had made a new edit that just happens to be the reverse of the previous edit.

Because Melodyne's internal undo state is no longer tracked by REAPER, when you insert Melodyne and then make some plugin edits, REAPER still thinks the previous action was inserting Melodyne. That's why undoing in REAPER then discards the plugin edits. Your "trick" of making some REAPER edits immediately after inserting Melodyne doesn't really change this, it just adds a couple more undo points -- if you undo past those, Melodyne will still reset. I can't think of anything we could do about this on our side.
Thanks for explaining. What about an optional popup window that appears in case of reaper-undos that affect melodyne instances with a warning and request for confirmation?

I am also curious how other daws manage these issues.

Last edited by multibody; 08-05-2019 at 06:45 AM.
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Old 08-05-2019, 07:02 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by schwa View Post
I'm glad things are working better for people with the latest dev builds. The basic problem is that Melodyne has a complex internal undo state, and REAPER also has an undo state, and if those ever get out of sync, Melodyne just gives up and discards all edits. So in the latest builds, REAPER just ignores Melodyne's undo state completely. When you undo, from Melodyne's perspective, it's the same as if you had made a new edit that just happens to be the reverse of the previous edit.

Because Melodyne's internal undo state is no longer tracked by REAPER, when you insert Melodyne and then make some plugin edits, REAPER still thinks the previous action was inserting Melodyne. That's why undoing in REAPER then discards the plugin edits. Your "trick" of making some REAPER edits immediately after inserting Melodyne doesn't really change this, it just adds a couple more undo points -- if you undo past those, Melodyne will still reset. I can't think of anything we could do about this on our side.
Very interesting. Thanks for clearing that up.


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Originally Posted by multibody View Post
Thanks for explaining. What about an optional popup window that appears in case of reaper-undos that affect melodyne instances with a warning and request for confirmation?

I am also curious how other daws manage these issues.
Not sure how that would work exactly but a setting in the Preferences that allowed the user to enable a pop-up warning like that would be pretty neat.

"Warning: This undo will reset the Melodyne edits on the selected track. Do you want to continue?"
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Old 08-05-2019, 07:29 AM   #75
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How about asking Melodyne devs?
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Old 08-05-2019, 12:45 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
I'm glad things are working better for people with the latest dev builds. The basic problem is that Melodyne has a complex internal undo state, and REAPER also has an undo state, and if those ever get out of sync, Melodyne just gives up and discards all edits. So in the latest builds, REAPER just ignores Melodyne's undo state completely. When you undo, from Melodyne's perspective, it's the same as if you had made a new edit that just happens to be the reverse of the previous edit.

Because Melodyne's internal undo state is no longer tracked by REAPER, when you insert Melodyne and then make some plugin edits, REAPER still thinks the previous action was inserting Melodyne. That's why undoing in REAPER then discards the plugin edits. Your "trick" of making some REAPER edits immediately after inserting Melodyne doesn't really change this, it just adds a couple more undo points -- if you undo past those, Melodyne will still reset. I can't think of anything we could do about this on our side.
I appreciate this response. Honestly itís just nice to have some solid answers. I kind of figured it would boil down to bug fixes and then finally some kind of concession on the user side. Itís all still reasonably new. Iím just excited it works as well as it does!
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Old 08-05-2019, 12:49 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by multibody View Post
Thanks for explaining. What about an optional popup window that appears in case of reaper-undos that affect melodyne instances with a warning and request for confirmation?

I am also curious how other daws manage these issues.
I remember somebody recently saying that studio one only lets you use Melodyne as take fx
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Old 08-05-2019, 02:38 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Chris7t6 View Post
I remember somebody recently saying that studio one only lets you use Melodyne as take fx
"Inserting Melodyne into a channel strip: no ARA
To benefit from ARA, you have to insert Melodyne as an Event FX (which is what happens automatically if you use the Edit with Melodyne command). It is also possible to insert Melodyne into a channel strip, but in this case no ARA integration takes place. This means you will have to perform transfers and also that Melodyne will no longer follow automatically any tempo changes or changes made to the audio events on the track in Studio One."

http://helpcenter.celemony.com/edito...tudio_one.html
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Old 08-06-2019, 04:57 AM   #79
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So at this stage, is it best practice to use Melodyne as a Take FX to avoid losing edits? Are there any drawbacks to using Take FX?
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Old 08-06-2019, 07:22 AM   #80
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So at this stage, is it best practice to use Melodyne as a Take FX to avoid losing edits? Are there any drawbacks to using Take FX?
I havenít personally run into any.

I have to admit, Iím really surprised at how well melodyne just works as a take effect.

There have been no differences at all for me.

Of course Iíd love to hear from the devs on this if itís doing something awful in the background like stealing tons of CPU or interrupting some thing or another.
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