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View Poll Results: If you find yourself inspired by any of the above possibilities, please vote
Yes, i want "wait on note" recording 10 83.33%
No or i don't care 2 16.67%
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Old 12-22-2017, 03:40 PM   #1
rvrv
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Default "wait for note" recording - start recording on incoming MIDI note

this has been requested multiple times since 2009 for Reaper and always got some good traction (votes) but was never implemented

in fact when you google wait for note recording you will find this feature is requested or dearly missed by many other DAW users - there are many users on every major DAW missing this feature (Cubase, Logic, Ableton) some even harassing they will switch DAW without this feature (google "wait for midi recording" to see results on most other DAW's user forums)

seems like the only lucky guys are Pro Tools, MOTU Digital Performer, Fruity Loops users or users of ancient Opcode Vision (i didn't research too much there will be other DAWs) - this feature was available back in 1990s in Opcode Vision...

there is a substantial DEMAND FOR THIS FEATURE IN THE MUSIC INDUSTRY BELIEVE ME - this could be deal-breaker for Reaper compared to other DAWs

in my opinion its one of the most natural ways to record and overdub midi especially if you work for film/trailer music or any electronic / dance / EDM genre (where you don't record live instruments or bands)…

simply ARM tracks, PUSH RECORD BUTTON, and the DAW is patiently waiting with the cursor on hold… until you press first midi note… this sets record playhead in motion and starts recording… simple BUT VERY POWERFULL…

this is different to assigning MIDI message to RECORD BUTTON in reaper keyboard shortcuts - in this common scenario the FIRST NOTE is not recorded (it is used to trigger recording and thus it is "eaten" and does not get passed to the recorded score) - also you have to typically use some unrelated midi note every time to trigger the recording (like C6) which is irrelevant to what you actually want to play like a C3 + D3 + E3 chord - having to reach to C6 to start recording and than rush back while the playhead is already moving completely evades the purpose and benefits of "wait for note" recording

BENEFITS of WAIT FOR NOTE recording:

1) place notes EXACTLY but with all human feeling recorded - by playing them on piano not by punching them in with the mouse
2) replace notes, chords, melodic lines simply by positioning cursor PRESS RECORD and perform the chord or melody you want to punch in
3) build complex layers of humanised midi events very quickly - play notes, rewind cursor, play more notes, repeat - no more stiff mouse note punching of quantised, velocity uniform (robotic) notes - yet less demanding on piano playing skills and timing focus than LOOP RECORDING
4) avoid the dreaded "red light fever" - you know when you can play a riff 10 times right but when the RED RECORD LIGHT IS ON AND THE CURSOR IS WALLOPING AHEAD OR THE COUNT-IN METRONOME IS TICKING LIKE A TIMEBOMB YOU PANIC - now you can relax get in the mood and whip up the perfect melody or chord progression when YOU are ready
5) for film/trailer music place exactly drum hits, cinematic effects, melodic ideas, SFX
6) for electronic / dance music - if you find a good melodic idea or arpeggio or bassline noodling around your master keyboard, just place the cursor and when ready stamp that idea anywhere in your track with exact cursor placement
7) if you don't like last take, rewind cursor - play it again Sam, it will sit EXACTLY WHERE YOU planted the cursor

also WAIT ON NOTE function combined with "TAB to next transient / MIDI note" is like having a TAPE recorder where you can record/replace/overdub with surgical laser precision but complete human musicality of playing a piano keyboard - no need to punch in notes with mouse and feel like a robot (dehumanising music making) - put your soul and joy into playing the notes but also have surgical knife precision and timing accuracy where each of your mini-performances lands in the track - always hit the exact record spot without the need for perfect timing and session player's skills

this can be a bit like step recording but with much more flexibility and freedom to record fluent performances and melodic lines just like you play them on piano with your own unique style and feeling

the possibilities become even more intriguing when the function would wait for ANY midi event to set the "waiting" record playhead in motion (not just notes but also CC) - you could stamp CC automation performances on existing midi notes with precise onset point (imagine manual hands-on fader / encoder / modwheel rides that have exact punch-in beginning)

- this is one of those features that you will use 1000x a day
- this is one of those features that you will not understand how you could live without
- this is one of those features where you will forever stay with REAPER because you just can't go to DAW without "WAIT ON NOTE" record mode
- this is one of those features that can put smile and spark of creativity and human touch back into your workflow if you are stuck with punching notes in with mouse or feel tightness whenever you hear the COUNT-IN metronome

Last edited by rvrv; 12-25-2017 at 07:45 AM.
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Old 12-25-2017, 05:42 AM   #2
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just adding some links to "Deprecated REAPER issue tracker" where this request was raised couple times and had some votes

RECORD: WAIT FOR MIDI INPUT
MIDI (or audio) won't start recording until the program receives a MIDI/control command.
https://forums.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=3578

"WAIT" button for record and playback
Wait for incoming midi event before Reaper plays or records
https://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=1197

Last edited by rvrv; 12-25-2017 at 05:58 AM.
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Old 12-25-2017, 06:33 AM   #3
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You can do a JSFX to detect a note (or whichever combination of Midi events), use MidiToReaControlPath to send an appropriate midi message "down" into Reaper, and then trigger an action by that, which might start the recording.

If it's just a dedicated midi event that come in on purpose, it might even suffice to activate the control path for that midi driver and directly trigger the action with that midi event.

(I did not test triggering actions by midi yet.)

-Michael
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Old 12-25-2017, 08:05 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
You can do a JSFX to detect a note (or whichever combination of Midi events), use MidiToReaControlPath to send an appropriate midi message "down" into Reaper, and then trigger an action by that, which might start the recording.

If it's just a dedicated midi event that come in on purpose, it might even suffice to activate the control path for that midi driver and directly trigger the action with that midi event.

(I did not test triggering actions by midi yet.)
id love to have this solved by scripting but there seem to be 3 major obstacles

1) the first note (the trigger note) must be any note on the keyboard as in an example where you will want to record different melodic lines each time so the trigger note must be ANY NOTE that you decide to record at that moment

2) the first note (the trigger note) must be also recorded - so far I've seen scripts where the first note always gets "eaten" because its used to perform the RECORD START function and thus the first note does not get recorded in the score - the actual recorded data then starts with second note onwards

3) if you start your recording with a CHORD - the script must be able to react when it gets 3 (multiple) notes to start with, instead of 1 (single) note (the notes in the chord will most likely not arrive EXACTLY AT SAME millisecond but they might - by happy accident )

if someone can figure the above in a script and still ensure perfect timing between recorded notes - so there is no gap / latency / offset introduced into the recorded MIDI events (the script might take 100-200ms to run its code or store FIRST note to buffer and then retrieve it) - thereby introducing noticeable offset between the FIRST / TRIGGER note and the subsequent notes) - than I am happily willing to pay some donation over PayPal to have this feature scripted and made public to all Reaper users

Last edited by rvrv; 12-25-2017 at 08:24 AM.
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Old 12-25-2017, 10:13 AM   #5
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While using a JSFX it will be no problem to exactly define the condition that is used to tart the recording, and it will not eat the midi events, a major problem might be the timing. Very likely the note(s) that trigger the start will not be recorded as they themselves are the condition to start the recording. And this is not a matter of scripting or not. As the DAW can't look ahead in time, you would need to delay all tracks (audio and Midi) before they are recorded, to allow for the first midi note to arrive at the recording point after the recording had been started.

-Michael
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Old 12-25-2017, 11:14 AM   #6
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i dont understand the scripting so i cant be of help in this but i understand there are some logical limitations of the scripting when trying to acomplish this since nobody was able to implement it so far (with first note being recorded) using existing tools within Reaper... But other DAWs can do it so there must be a way to achieve this although it may need Reaper developers to incorporate it to the core functionality of Reaper...
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Old 12-25-2017, 11:16 AM   #7
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I'd just use a pedal for this (assign a MIDI CC to record/stop message and have a dedicated pedal for it).
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Old 12-25-2017, 11:24 AM   #8
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yeap using pedal is a common setup (i use it too) its pretty close but not the same it may be my lousy timing or playing skills but its more cumbersome than what the WAIT FOR NOTE would be... espcially when you have a lot of these "punch-ins" to do on the project (film scores / SFX tracks) - i always end up having to fix the recorded notes with mouse
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Old 12-25-2017, 11:36 AM   #9
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Quote:
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yeap using pedal is a common setup (i use it too) its pretty close
offtopic ! what could be a good pedal for this?
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Old 12-25-2017, 11:54 AM   #10
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Any switch pedal would be fine, just make sure your MIDI controller supports it. If it has more than one pedal input even better, then sustain pedal remains in use.
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Old 12-25-2017, 11:59 AM   #11
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Another option would be time selection punch-in recording. I use that very often with great results.
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Old 12-25-2017, 05:02 PM   #12
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yeap, Reaper has many ways to record already built in and they all have their benefits and uses, but all these are very traditional modes that are available in most DAWs for years... "WAIT FOR NOTE" is setting A DIFFERENT APPROACH to recording compared to the "traditional, age-old" modes... it doesn't rely on player's precise timing like "time selection auto punch" its also much quicker to input humanised notes anywhere in the project (without need to make time selections)...

WAIT FOR NOTE is generally more like a "step input recording" but with total freedom and expresivity being captured

altogether it frees the player from the "red fever" and constant need to be aware of the running playhead or coordinating several different things to commence a recording...

WAIT FOR NOTE is pure simplicity at work...

i am not saying it trumps all the other recording modes, each and every recording mode has its justification but as Reaper is really a swiss knife DAW with so many possible workflows that WAIT FOR NOTE should definitely be there... and i can guarantee that other DAW users will envy this function they have been calling for in their DAW of choice for years...

Last edited by rvrv; 12-25-2017 at 05:22 PM.
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Old 12-25-2017, 05:51 PM   #13
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Well, Reaper has wait for note recording. Reaper has also background recording. Then Reaper has tenfour-step recording.
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Old 12-25-2017, 05:57 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvrv View Post
... since nobody was able to implement it so far (with first note being recorded) using existing tools within Reaper... But other DAWs can do it so there must be a way to achieve this although it may need Reaper developers to incorporate it to the core functionality of Reaper...
The answer to this is easy, Reaper or any DAW would not recognize first note on, but its note off, so the note on could be added later, just backcalculating from its note off. Note on time will be then recording starting time. Reaper devs could add this in two seconds if they wanted.
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Old 12-26-2017, 10:31 AM   #15
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I am not trying to look i understand anything about programming or scripting or such, and dont want to be smart pants, but was thinking about the concept of WAIT FOR NOTE for last couple days and have some question/ideas/pointers that iam going to throw out here... feel free to tell me iam completely silly

1) at any moment in time when Reaper is launched a certain part of reaper is aware of every incoming NOTE ON otherwise we would not be able to play VST synths with master keayboard when reaper is stopped, reaper is constantly monitoring incoming data when its launched to catch MIDI messages that trigger various functions we set up in Keyboard Shortcuts - so at least partially Reaper is already fully aware of any MIDI arriving to the computer even when in STOP mode (not recording)...

now i know that Reaper only passes this MIDI through when not recording and to actually capture the data Reaper has to do a multitude of extra steps so there is a big difference between being aware of MIDI coming in PC (for example when playing VST synths with master keyboard) and actually capturing them with timecode etc...

2) but with WAIT FOR NOTE you are not asking Reaper to be ready to record at ANY POSSIBLE MOMENT IN NEXT 60 HOURS OR ETHERNITY - that would be asking something similar to "Retrospective record in Cubase" - that would be like telling Reaper "iam going to record some notes TODAY but iam not going to tell you when so you have to be on alert forever" - now what you actually doing with WAIT FOR NOTE is little simpler (in grand scheme of things) - you set "WAIT FOR NOTE" option to enabled and then PRESS RECORD button - by PRESSING RECORD (with WAIT FOR NOTE enabled) you give Reaper very clear marker that ONLY FROM THAT moment of RECORD PRESS he should be on full alert and expect to be hit by some important notes that need to be captured rather than just passsed to a VST synth....

iam not sure this can be handled with scripts but what could be added to core of Reaper by dev team is a little "behind the scene" cheat or workaround.... when i have WAIT FOR NOTE enabled and i press RECORD BUTTON - reaper will not start playhead on the screen (playhead would be waiting motionless) - but internally "behind the scene" reaper would start buffering / capturing all incomining data from the moment the RECORD button was pressed and when he recognises a MIDI NOTE ON among the buffered data it would set the playhead in motion and place the first NOTE ON that it recognised in the buffered data on the cursor starting position... reaper would STRIP and throw away any data that it buffered BEFORE the first NOTE ON message was recognised in the buffered data...

so basically with WAIT ON NOTE enabled, when (and only when) you press the RECORD BUTTON - reaper would already start recording midi data but it would not show you he is doing it (this would be happening hidden behind the scene) and only when a NOTE ON would be recognised in the buffered (secretly recorded data) the recorded data would be placed on timeline and punched into the score and playhead would start moving - like 2 recordings - 1 hidden starting from the moment you PRESS RECORD and 1 visible and indicated by moving playhead and note rectangles appearing in the score from the moment a NOTE ON is recognised in the "secretly recorded" data...

of course there would have to be all sorts of very clever programming done to make everything look visually on the screen as if Reaper actually started recording midi ONLY with the first note... everything would have to be offseted internally to make all notes fall neatly in synch on the timeline and playhead starting to move in synch and all this complicated math - so user wouldn not even realise that the recording was actually started "internally / behind the scene" with the press of RECORD button, and not the first NOTE ON he played seconds or minutes later...

now i know that this is probably impossible to do at this moment with scripts only, because reaper needs to have playhead moving in order to generate internal timecode/tempo that is used to synch / timestamp all incoming and recorded data...

Last edited by rvrv; 12-26-2017 at 11:19 AM.
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Old 12-26-2017, 10:50 AM   #16
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Well, rvrv, what did you try, and what went wrong? Maybe you did not try the interesting cases yet, but we do not know this unless you tell us what you tried so far.
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Old 12-26-2017, 11:10 AM   #17
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Quote:
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Well, rvrv, what did you try, and what went wrong? Maybe you did not try the interesting cases yet, but we do not know this unless you tell us what you tried so far.
iam not sure what is the question ? the whole point of this thread is to request a developer team to add "WAIT FOR NOTE" feature that to my knowledge is not in Reaper right now... i dont know programming or scripting so iam unable to try to program it myself... only thing i can offer is some PayPal donation to whoever will spend his time working on it... thats about the situation with me

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Old 12-26-2017, 11:16 AM   #18
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If 99% of something exists we can not say it does not exist, better would be saying 'only 1% is missing' and trying to find ways for solving this missing 1%.
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Old 12-26-2017, 11:28 AM   #19
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sorry i dont understand you at all can you be more specific and speak less like a ZEN BUDHIST... in my opinion there is 100% of "WAIT FOR NOTE" missing in Reaper

Last edited by rvrv; 12-26-2017 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 12-26-2017, 12:43 PM   #20
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Any switch pedal would be fine, just make sure your MIDI controller supports it. If it has more than one pedal input even better, then sustain pedal remains in use.
Thanks a lot Evil !
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Old 12-27-2017, 11:24 AM   #21
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I often arm a track, press Record, then turn to my MIDI keyboard and play. This way I record ideas, pilot tracks, unrelated parts, etc. I always remove the leading silence of the resulting items. I hope the "wait for note" mode would save me this step.
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Old 12-28-2017, 07:36 AM   #22
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This reminds me of one crucial aspect of WAIT FOR NOTE...

It has to do with auditioning of ALL OTHER ACTIVE TRACKS in the project once the "waiting for note" playhead starts moving (once Reaper recieves the first NOTE ON)...

Imagine this very simplified scenario:

- you have 4 tracks in project (drums, synth, pad, bass)

you decide to record couple bass notes in track 4 using "wait for note" mode, BUT you want to hear all the OTHER ACTIVE TRACKS while you record the bass notes...

with WAIT FOR NOTE, when you PRESS RECORD the playhead is ON HOLD waiting for you to play first note, once you press that first piano note the playhead sets in motion and Reaper auditions ALL OTHER ACTIVE TRACKS in synch as the playhead moves along the timeline... so PLAYHEAD WAITS FOR FIRST NOTE and once you start playing your keyboard you are recording new notes WHILE hearing THE OTHER ACTIVE TRACKS sounding as the playhead starts to scroll over them...

This IMHO is the toughest obstacle for any script developer to implement WAIT FOR NOTE using scripts... putting playhead ON HOLD and than MAKE PLAYHEAD MOVE ALONG THE TIMELINE AND AUDITION ALL ACTIVE TRACKS IN PROJECT once the first note is recieved by Reaper (all this while CAPTURING every note, including the first note)...

I dont understand programming or scripting but i have a gut feeling that this is not possible currently with scripting in Reaper...

Please Cockos Team give us WAIT FOR NOTE implemented in Reaper

Last edited by rvrv; 12-28-2017 at 11:53 AM.
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Old 12-28-2017, 10:43 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.lt View Post
I often arm a track, press Record, then turn to my MIDI keyboard and play. This way I record ideas, pilot tracks, unrelated parts, etc. I always remove the leading silence of the resulting items. I hope the "wait for note" mode would save me this step.
Sure WAIT FOR NOTE recordings always start with FIRST NOTE ON message that you press on your master keyboard... anything you do between PRESSING RECORD and playing FIRST NOTE is totally ignored in WAIT FOR NOTE mode... the playhead isnt even moving until you press first note...

The added benefit is that it always places the recording DEAD ON the starting cursor/playhead position (wherever you placed cursor before PRESSING RECORD thats where the first note will appear once you eventually play it on keyboard)...

Another characteristic as mentioned in my previous post is that if you already have some tracks laid down (pilot tracks, exisiting ideas) and decide to doodle around you will most likely want to hear whats already in the composition (maybe you have a rhythm track or vocal track that you need as reference or there is some exisiting pad/synth bed or melody that you want to lay your new notes over) - in previous post i describe how WAIT FOR NOTE will wait for your MIDI input and once you start playing your keyboard, the playhead will start moving and will audition anything that is already laid in the project at the same time as RECORDING your new notes

Last edited by rvrv; 12-28-2017 at 11:58 AM.
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