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03-28-2016, 04:19 PM
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#121
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Reflection Free Zone
Posts: 3,026
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I don't think anyone can know at this stage, especially as 'Staff per channel' is not implemented yet!
Your question is good because clearly while we want 'bi-directional' edits between piano roll and event list (the closest to RAW data) and the Notation editor, I often wonder how far this can go.
As you ask, if a track item is 'exploded' to staff per channel, and new articulation markings are added, then what happens?
I think that we would expect in this case that 'local' articulations (per channel) would over-ride any 'track articulations' that would be in effect.
I don't think multi-channel item displayed in multi-stave system would necessarily create any new data, just display it in multiple places. I like this because then there is less chance of me editing the wrong channel in a multi-channel item.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpb2016
would the CCs and articulations be on the "master" or "slave" track? Or am I misunderstanding something?
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Last edited by hamish; 03-29-2016 at 04:02 AM.
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03-28-2016, 04:27 PM
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#122
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Reflection Free Zone
Posts: 3,026
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About beaming. I have needed to use the 'start new beam' a few times already, and I have been keeping my test projects very simple.
I like the arguments for more complete beaming edits.
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03-28-2016, 07:55 PM
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#123
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpb2016
Yes, thats what I was wondering, would the CCs and articulations be on the "master" or "slave" track? Or am I misunderstanding something?
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Regarding CCs, you can do it either way, whichever suits your workflow. You can fire up the "master" track as a note reference and then draw your automation curves and things on the "slave" track if you like. They all end up in the same place.
As for articulations, don't they generally exist per note in any case, so you don't need to worry about that side of things? However the implementation of this part works, it should be fairly transparent.
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03-29-2016, 03:16 AM
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#124
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ijijn
Regarding CCs, you can do it either way, whichever suits your workflow. You can fire up the "master" track as a note reference and then draw your automation curves and things on the "slave" track if you like. They all end up in the same place.
As for articulations, don't they generally exist per note in any case, so you don't need to worry about that side of things? However the implementation of this part works, it should be fairly transparent.
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Maybe Im thick but I dont really get it.
Lets say I make a piano arrangement on Midi Track 1, assign up a unison melodyline to 3 different instruments that has different keyswitches on Midi Tracks 2, 3 & 4, then I cant control the articulations from Midi Track 1 because of conflicting keyswitches, right? So then the CCs and articulations got to be on Midi Tracks 2, 3 & 4?
Or do you mean that voices on the midi master can be individually assigned to slave tracks visually in the notation but are controlled from the master track?
Sorry if I ask dumb questions.
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03-29-2016, 03:48 AM
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#125
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Reflection Free Zone
Posts: 3,026
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Keyswitches and CC's work on a per-channel basis. They should be on the same channel as the note events that are meant to be affected.
You seem to be talking about duplicating a part.
That is not what 'staff per channel' for a multi-channel MIDI track item is (necessarily) about.
You need to be more clear about the terms, are you meaning to create new tracks or create new channels in your example?
Also results depends on how the track is routed, ie the per-channel configuration of the VSTi that is being triggered.
If you make multiple tracks with data on the same channel being routed to the same VSTi you have a good chance of creating 'collisions' in your keyswiches or CC's.
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03-29-2016, 04:01 AM
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#126
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Reflection Free Zone
Posts: 3,026
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If I understand your example, here's how it would work with a single track holding a multi-channel VSTi with pno on CH 1, clarinet CH 2, vln CH 3, flute CH 4.
You have the pno part in an item. You copy/paste the melody to CH 2, CH 3, and CH 4. To see all the parts in notation on one system you select the (FEATURE REQUEST) 'display multi-channel item as staff per channel'.
To change articulations in clarinet, vln and flute you put in the appropriate keyswitches on their channel.
Everything works, although if you want say, expression CC 11 change on a crescendo then it would have to go in for each channel. Unless some new and clever editing tools were added
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03-29-2016, 06:16 AM
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#127
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hamish
If I understand your example, here's how it would work with a single track holding a multi-channel VSTi with pno on CH 1, clarinet CH 2, vln CH 3, flute CH 4.
You have the pno part in an item. You copy/paste the melody to CH 2, CH 3, and CH 4. To see all the parts in notation on one system you select the (FEATURE REQUEST) 'display multi-channel item as staff per channel'.
To change articulations in clarinet, vln and flute you put in the appropriate keyswitches on their channel.
Everything works, although if you want say, expression CC 11 change on a crescendo then it would have to go in for each channel. Unless some new and clever editing tools were added
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Thanks for taking the time to explain it!
For me it still seems similar to what im already doing; make a piano sketch and then copy voices to separate instruments. Anyway, I support the idea, but I think I need tinkle with it practically to get the hang of it, if the devs implement it.
Thanx
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03-29-2016, 06:40 AM
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#128
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Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 15,749
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I think that, for maximum flexibility, most of the not-yet-existing features that are being discussed could be implemented via a plain text .ReaperNotation file, which could be loaded for individual tracks.
For representing multiple staves per track, the file could hold channel names, clefs, and grouping/bracketing information.
For percussion mapping, the file could hold pitch mapping and note head display information. This would replace the mapping UI that briefly appeared in a couple of earlier prereleases.
For articulation/dynamic/etc mapping (I would like a more concise way to categorize this), the file could hold information about how to apply notation markings to MIDI data. For example, mapping articulations to key switches, dynamics to volume, etc.
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03-29-2016, 07:12 AM
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#129
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
I think that, for maximum flexibility, most of the not-yet-existing features that are being discussed could be implemented via a plain text .ReaperNotation file, which could be loaded for individual tracks.
For articulation/dynamic/etc mapping (I would like a more concise way to categorize this), the file could hold information about how to apply notation markings to MIDI data. For example, mapping articulations to key switches, dynamics to volume, etc.
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Yes, great! and that sounds easy to manage. (Btw Im beginning to get serious pre-release withdrawal symptoms, any cure on the horizon?)
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03-29-2016, 07:24 AM
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#130
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Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 15,749
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Sorry, been on vacation. 5.20pre27 should go out today.
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03-29-2016, 07:42 AM
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#131
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
Sorry, been on vacation. 5.20pre27 should go out today.
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Well deserved vacation! Great news!
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03-29-2016, 09:12 AM
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#132
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 83
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O, yeah!!! Great!
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03-29-2016, 10:44 AM
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#133
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
I think that, for maximum flexibility, most of the not-yet-existing features that are being discussed could be implemented via a plain text .ReaperNotation file, which could be loaded for individual tracks.
For representing multiple staves per track, the file could hold channel names, clefs, and grouping/bracketing information.
For percussion mapping, the file could hold pitch mapping and note head display information. This would replace the mapping UI that briefly appeared in a couple of earlier prereleases.
For articulation/dynamic/etc mapping (I would like a more concise way to categorize this), the file could hold information about how to apply notation markings to MIDI data. For example, mapping articulations to key switches, dynamics to volume, etc.
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Excellent!
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03-29-2016, 04:00 PM
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#134
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
I think that, for maximum flexibility, most of the not-yet-existing features that are being discussed could be implemented via a plain text .ReaperNotation file, which could be loaded for individual tracks.
For representing multiple staves per track, the file could hold channel names, clefs, and grouping/bracketing information.
For percussion mapping, the file could hold pitch mapping and note head display information. This would replace the mapping UI that briefly appeared in a couple of earlier prereleases.
For articulation/dynamic/etc mapping (I would like a more concise way to categorize this), the file could hold information about how to apply notation markings to MIDI data. For example, mapping articulations to key switches, dynamics to volume, etc.
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Welcome back! Sounds super, as long as all of this information can make its way into the text metadata stream for processing.
And perhaps "performance mapping" as a general term, to save the slash key from premature burnout?
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03-30-2016, 01:32 AM
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#135
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: North East UK
Posts: 493
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Would the structure of this file lend itself to a dedicated external editor - I'm thinking here of the Sibelius sound set editor which uses XML
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04-06-2016, 07:03 AM
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#136
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
For articulation/dynamic/etc mapping (I would like a more concise way to categorize this)
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In NOTION (a notation software from presonus), they are called "rules".
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